[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.

I think they add alot of replay value.

They usually give me a little more incentive to finish the game or keep playing.

I find them a clever way to add more depth to the gaming experience  for most people. though myself, I really dont care about achievements. I'm fine with them and I'm fine without them =)

i think achievements provide replay value to games you would have tossed aside otherwise

"I don't own a 360 ..." Stopped taking you seriously there. If you don't have a 360 why are you formulating ill conceived opinions of achievements? And the achievements in Assassin's Creed are not a good representation of the feature as they are not clever or difficult. Achievements, when well thought out, add a lot to the experience and make you think about things you may miss in the game without them. Sadly most are simply "You beat level 1!" type things, but these at least show you progressed in the game.

I love achievements. They add replay value and makes me more satisfied and proud of what I have done.

It really just depends on the person. Some people think it adds replay value to their games, gives them incentive to complete a certain task or mission in the game. Others don't care for it, they just want to play the game without caring about points.

I do have to agree with you on the fact that people will play bad games just to get points, to me, that is really ridiculous. The only reason I can justify someone playing a bad game would be if the person wants to review it for themselves. 

I love achievements! I totally think they're missing on other consoles!

I dont think there dumb. It was a master stroke addition on Microsofts behalf to come up with it. Having said that though, I hold no stock in them and I don't buy games for points and I only replay a game if I like it not cause I need points. But I acknowledge the fact that they were a really great idea.

Achievements as a whole aren't dumb, but there are dumb achievements.

Achievements IMO might be one of the best things added to gaming. 

On paper, I think they are kind of dumb. But as a completionist, they drive me to play the game more thoroughly, even to the point of frustration ( the "saint" achievement on "Dead Rising"). But all in all, I think they were a well thought out concept. They still get people to at least rent and sometimes buy games that they would never play normally, but do so just for the achievement points (JEFF GERSTMANN).

Microsoft could probably spruce things up a bit if they added very minor incentives, such as a few Microsoft Points for every thousand you gain.

Otherwise, I'm very big on achievements, but I'm ashamed to say my point total dwindles at 6,000.

They add to the game, but i never try to get all of them.

Achievements for me are the greatest thing this generation of gaming, they really made games a lot more enjoyable for me.

Hm.  I think the idea is okay, but it's implementation is not so great.  More or less because of "dumb" achievements.  I think Trophies are a little better since you're supposed to be able to display them in a trophy room in Home.  Regardless I think the problem with achievements is that people play the game to get achievements instead of having fun.  Sort of like how some people play WoW non-stop to have epic gear that will just get replaced with something better almost immediately.

I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason. I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.
Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

I mean, I understand how Jeff and Kevin can have so many because they review games and they get Achievements along the way but how can everyone seem to have 10,000 AP?

"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason.

I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.

Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason. I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.
Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

I mean, I understand how Jeff and Kevin can have so many because they review games and they get Achievements along the way but how can everyone seem to have 10,000 AP?
"

They're pretty dumb, yeah.

Nope, they add major replayability to a game.

there kinda stupid, but at the same time usefull for developers to add alot of time to there game by thinking up little more than a sentence to put into the game, oh and tf2s are awesome, you acually get something from them (weapons.)

I used to be a big achievement monger, but now that I'm not, they do seem useless. But that's not to say that they're dumb, they do add some replay which is nice.

"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason. I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.
Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

I mean, I understand how Jeff and Kevin can have so many because they review games and they get Achievements along the way but how can everyone seem to have 10,000 AP?
"

"I don't own a 360 ..." Stopped taking you seriously there.

STEAM achievements aren't important. The only important achievements are LIVE achievements. Meaning 360 and windows live. They're the only reason I still play videogames.

"STEAM achievements aren't important. The only important achievements are LIVE achievements. Meaning 360 and windows live. They're the only reason I still play videogames.
"

"Red said:

"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason.

I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.

Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

Have you actually looked at a list of achievements before?  A sizable portion of achivements have nothing to do with grinding.  They either reward a feat of exceptional skill or provide you with incentive to finish, say, an entire RPG from start to finish.

If you're wondering how someone can have over 10,000 points, you're looking at the wrong games.  There are multiple games out there that are incredibly easy 1000 points, and simply by getting a large selection of 360 games (which, since it's been out for 3 years, isn't the "Wow dude you have no life spend money on something else" type of moneyspending that you might think) and playing them halfway, you have 10,000 points.

So, I'm confused by the third point.  You think that getting 20 GAZILLION achievement points is pointless, but getting trophies and trying to get to level 20 GAZILLION isn't pointless?  And while we're on the subject of your inability to see the similarities between the PS3 and 360's systems, are you implying that there are no trophies that require a "grind" for PS3 games?

Achievements are a great way to add incentive to features of a game that would otherwise get used very little, or promote ways of playing the game that people wouldn't think of.  The perennial example is the first Geometry Wars: How many people would've played the game without firing their gun if there wasn't an achievement to give them the incentive to do it?
"

I never play bad game's for achievment's - But they add great playability to game's, and give you an incentive to replay game's you normally wouldn't.

20,642 Gamerscore and counting :)

"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"

"ninjadodo said:

"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"

You know you can make it so it doesn't alert you, right?
Honestly I don't think there is any real reason to hate achievements you're just a whiny asshole.

"

Achievements are addicting.They don't just add replay value but they make me rent crappy games that has easy 1000 G.

"DualReaver said:

"ninjadodo said:

"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"

You know you can make it so it doesn't alert you, right?
Honestly I don't think there is any real reason to hate achievements you're just a whiny asshole.

"

Hey, Hey! keep it to yourself. We're having a debate here and your insults are not welcome.

We don't hate them, we just think they are stupid.
"

achievements are awsome they add like 5 times more replay value

No, but I wish I did.

the way I see it is that achievements are a way of getting the feeling of accomplishment, a pat on the back by the developer saying "wow man you beat Ninja Gaiden II on path of the mentor awesome! heres 100 points". the points arent worth anything and they just kinda look good on your GT but i dunno guess you havent played a amazingly hard game before and didnt really get that acomplished feel (God Hand anyone). All in all its a love it or hate it thing, though that makes me want to ask you a question..

don't you want to acomplish things in your life?

I don't go out of my way to get achievement points as I have about 7.5k, but they are a nice bonus. I'm not too competitive about them, though it's cool to see that you've gotten more achievement points in game X than your friend has in game X.

Overall they are win/10.

"the way I see it is that achievements are a way of getting the feeling of accomplishment, a pat on the back by the developer saying "wow man you beat Ninja Gaiden II on path of the mentor awesome! heres 100 points". the points arent worth anything and they just kinda look good on your GT but i dunno guess you havent played a amazingly hard game before and didnt really get that acomplished feel (God Hand anyone). All in all its a love it or hate it thing, though that makes me want to ask you a question..

don't you want to acomplish things in your life?"

i don't actually try to get them but i love it when one pops up

What exactly is the debate? He is just bitching about achievements and insulting people who try to get them.
As for Immersion simple, just turn off alerts.

His example is a little weird too, AC?
I doubt achievements had anything to do with its lack of immersion.
"

"Achievements for me are the greatest thing this generation of gaming, they really made games a lot more enjoyable for me.
"

"DualReaver said:

What exactly is the debate? He is just bitching about achievements and insulting people who try to get them.
As for Immersion simple, just turn off alerts.

His example is a little weird too, AC?
I doubt achievements had anything to do with its lack of immersion.
"

The debate is in perfectly valid differing views on why achievements may or may not be a good thing. I think they are not. You're welcome to disagree, but I have not directly insulted anyone. If you take the Obsessive Compulsive comment personally then maybe that says more about you than me. Note that I did not say playing crappy games for points is sad, I said it makes me sad. If that's the best we can do as a medium, it makes me sad.

Despite it's flaws (and they are less on the PC) Assassin's Creed is one of the most immersive games to come out in recent years. It certainly does not deserve the hate. You cannot however turn off notifications in this game, nor could you previously (I think due to a bug) on Steam. Turning off the Steam overlay didn't work and I continued to be interrupted by pop-ups throughout Episode 2 and Portal.

This was annoying and broke immersion and I think that's a perfectly good reason to bring it up as bad game design. If you think that's whining, then what are you doing wasting your time replying in this thread?"

A few things:

I don't care what other people do with Achievements. I care if the best reason to play games is to score points, because then I don't think I would bother with this medium anymore...

As it happens I wrote an email to Valve about the achievement pop-ups among other things and they wrote back saying thanks for the feedback.

I'm not trying to enjoy fiction when I drive a car.

And I can deal fine, or i wouldn't be playing these games at all... but, just because you can deal with something bothersome doesn't make it a good thing. If you actually read the thread I'm not the only one that doesn't care for them. But whatever, I'm clearly in the wrong place for an argument that goes against The Laws of 360. Admittedly something I could have seen coming posting in the "Achievements" forum. My  bad.

Have fun with your points.

You must have made this thread in a hurry because you've edited a lot.....

Look, I'm not here to criticize you as a person. But you're fair game for making another thread about this same old stuff. You must have expected the backlash for the thread at some point. If you didn't want fair discussion it probably shouldn't have been made.

I did read the thread, so hopefully you're not implying I didn't. This might be a back-handed compliment but I don't care how those other people feel about achievements good or bad, I care about what you think. I responded to you afterall....

I didn't say it was a good thing, my point was ultimately that it's 100% arbitrary. I'm glad you responded so I can get a little deeper into this. It might just be you and I, but that's good enough from this point on as far as I'm concerned. You know what this argument reminds me of, people who sue restaraunts for getting burned by coffee. Not necessarily you, but in general, people that pick on the tiniest issues in life waste the biggest amount of time.

I commend you on emailing Valve.

Yes I think they're totally stupid in just about every way possible... will I still go out of my way to get one if it seems challenging or has a really cool name/objective? yeah I will, thought I don't know why.

"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"

I don't care that other people waste their lives away, but I think its pretty stupid to just play bad games and play games even when you do not enjoy them just to get "easy points". What does a number on a gamercard matter? So your e-penis on the giantbomb forums and xbox live is bigger?

As far as editing, I tend to correct spelling and what have you after I post. :)

Since I don't frequent avenues of Achievement discussion I was not aware that this type of thread is common. I just happened to see the Achievements concept and had to ask. As far as reading the thread, that was more directed in general at those who would label me a solitary 'whiny asshole'. I can see how you might think this seems like a nitpicky thing to complain about, but for me the thing I get out of games I guess is escapism to an extent. I like to lose myself in an alternate world, and anything that breaks the illusion gets in the way of that experience. I play Assassin's Creed with the HUD off. Yes it's true that mostly these things are optional, but when they're not, they're intrusive and annoying.

Aside from that, I've never understood the urge to compete for highscores as it's always seemed to me an ultimately futile pursuit. It's fun for a while, but surely the reason for playing a game should be that it's a good game? I guess I'm worried that if all people want out of this medium is points, that's what we'll get... games will just become empty grind machines with nothing but fake rewards. There's a reason I don't play MMOs.

"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"