3D platformers in 2011...sigh

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#1 Edited by OsheaDiesStupid (165 posts) -

First of all, I am really impressed with Ryan's review of this game, I think  it's maybe one of the best written reviews on the site this year.  
 
Now, I'm a  fan of the original Alice, but I wasn't looking forward for Madness Returns for a simple reason: I don't think 3D platformers work anymore. Jumping around from one island to the next is not intuitive at all in this type of games, and the camera is universally problematic. Back in 2001, this genre was very popular, so Alice was one of the stand-out games due to its unique subject matter. Nowadays, I just don't see a purpose for game mechanics like this. Fortunately, after 2 hours of playing Alice 2 I am enjoying the game somewhat, but I think it's mostly due to the fantastic look and the great soundtrack. I really like the "adventure" parts, and I think some of the voice acting is great. But the level design and combat are lacking, in my opinion. They just seem archaic and clumsy.  
 
Also, I find it funny that some people complain to EA that they didn't get their pre-order dresses with the game. Just the idea of male gamers upset that they can't change Alice's DRESS is.. 
 
Edit: Nevermind actually I saw a video with those DLC dresses and they're badass. I might actually buy them right now. 

#2 Posted by yoshimitz707 (2450 posts) -

Yeah man, 3D platformers just don't work. Remember how awful Mario Galaxy 2 was?

#3 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -

There's nothing wrong with 3D platforming. See Super Mario Galaxy, Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia...

#4 Posted by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -

You are the reason Rare can't make nice things anymore.

#5 Posted by mylifeforAiur (3482 posts) -

I myself look forward to the day when platformers become ubiquitous again. That's not to say that they're dead, but they've certainly been languishing.

#6 Posted by dagas (2746 posts) -

@OsheaDiesStupid said:

Just the idea of male gamers upset that they can't change Alice's DRESS is.. Edit: Nevermind actually I saw a video with those DLC dresses and they're badass. I might actually buy them right now.

It takes guts to admit you are wrong, especially when you admit you like dresses. You have my respect!

nothing wrong with alternate outfits in games.

#7 Posted by Maajin (1052 posts) -

I think the genre "working" or not on 2011 is totally subjective. I don't think that the sports genre works at all for me, bu they keep making and selling a lot of them.

#8 Posted by ajamafalous (11848 posts) -

I wish there were more 3D platformers.

#9 Posted by Underachiever007 (2468 posts) -
@Icemael said:
There's nothing wrong with 3D platforming. See Super Mario Galaxy, Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia...
This.
#10 Posted by FlamingHobo (4479 posts) -
@Icemael said:
There's nothing wrong with 3D platforming. See Super Mario Galaxy, Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia...
#11 Posted by Mcfart (1549 posts) -
@Icemael said:
There's nothing wrong with 3D platforming. See Super Mario Galaxy, Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia...
You forgot to mention Duke Nukem Forever
#12 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish said:
You are the reason Rare can't make nice things anymore.
+1
#13 Posted by ShiftyMagician (2129 posts) -
@ajamafalous said:

I wish there were more 3D platformers.

Same.  I'm so glad this also came out on PC as well.  Didn't think they would do that.
#14 Posted by valrog (3671 posts) -

I enjoy 3D platforming a lot more than 2D.

#15 Posted by SgtGrumbles (1024 posts) -

I've never bought into the idea that it's hard to judge jumps in a 3D game, I've never had a problem with it and judging from Mario Galaxy's popularity most people don't either, it just seems to be one of those phrases that gets picked up and used to exhaustion. I mean if you're struggling to judge a distance in a game 3D then how are you interacting with it at all?

#16 Posted by Jadeskye (4366 posts) -

@yoshimitz707 said:

Yeah man, 3D platformers just don't work. Remember how awful Mario Galaxy 2 was?

Werd.

#17 Posted by Devil240Z (3271 posts) -

The last 3d platformer I played was Spyro on PS1.

Its a failed genre.

#18 Posted by Taklulas (401 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish said:
You are the reason Rare can't make nice things anymore.  
  People like him are the reason we can't have ANYTHING nice. *looks at the BF3 boycott*
#19 Posted by MattyFTM (14342 posts) -

I love 3D platformers. I want to see more of them in 2011. It's sad that the genre has fallen off.

Moderator
#20 Posted by SBYM (1219 posts) -

Dude, WHATEVER. I kind of miss having a lot of decent 3D platformers to choose from.

#21 Edited by Kjellm87 (1728 posts) -

 

                                           WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 
One of my favorite games this gen, maybe all time fav, happens to be one.

#22 Posted by Hero_Swe (1111 posts) -

Saying stuff is intuitive just means it's easier. I don't want Mario levels of easy gaming. I want my Ninja Gaiden Black. More platforming and harder games for the masses!
#23 Posted by theoldhouse (439 posts) -

I prefer 3d platforming than 2d platforming 
 
It's less precise but in most cases feels more exhilarating. To me anyway.

#24 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

We need more Gex the Gecko.
 
Like now.

#25 Edited by Vortextk (418 posts) -

Nothing in this game for me feels clunky...it's just kind of long and drawn out. You're sailing on a lot of air vent/fan things, running on a lot of narrow ledges and making tons of jumps. I enjoy it even if it isn't exhilarating. I mean, three spin/jumps in the air, the fact that really nothing you have to land on is smaller than 4x4 alices and the float guarantee missing jumps is going to always be your fault. You can usually skip some platforms or hit them when they're closest to the next jump, rather than close to you, because of the massive aerial control/distance she has. The only problem I have with combat is the lock on camera refuses to change views on solo guys so if you lock on to a guy and hes in the corner of the screen, he stays in the corner until you release/lock on again with a better view. And as far as 3d platforming in 2011 goes, man I MISS this, I just wish the game had a bit more tricks up its sleeve.
 
Even in like assassin's creed, you know you're going to make the jump and grab the ledge, there's no guess or real work involved, because it's supposed to be easy to focus on everything else. And games like uncharted and enslaved can't even halfway use the platformer monicker describing one aspect of their gameplay, it's basically on rails jumping(I like both of those games). Mirror's edge kinda worked but I agree with the review here, Ryan I think as well, that I couldn't tell what I was doing wrong when I would screw up a jump 10 times in a row nor what I did differently when it worked. Was kind of poor design around a fantastic idea.

#26 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Ygg said:

We need more Gex the Gecko. Like now.

*brain implodes due to nostalgia*

#27 Posted by Zippedbinders (983 posts) -

Man, I'm hearing about all kinds of games that don't "work" in 2011. Apparently everything has gone on too long and we can't have games of certain genres. Just because the 3D platformer has fallen out of vogue doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Ratchet and Clank is still around, being pretty excellent, Mario has been tearing it up in fantastic ways, a new Sly is around the corner. 
 
It boggles the mind that some people are of the impression that a genre doesn't work anymore because of what year it is.

#28 Posted by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

The world needs more 3D platformers. Loving Alice so far.

#29 Edited by CandiBunni (465 posts) -
@Ygg said:

We need more Gex the Gecko.  Like now.

YES! I love that series. I've only got the first two though.
#30 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2682 posts) -

I agree, but I also acknowledge I'm completely in the minority.

#31 Posted by onarum (2016 posts) -

Yeah, eff any kind of game that isn't a modern military shooter like thing, they should have put Alice on army issue fatigues and have her go from cover to cover fighting in some plot involving nukes, because that's totally original and all, amirite?

#32 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

I never played the first Alice, I plan on doing so, but yeah I love Madness Returns. It's like the sequel to Psychonaughts that I never got. Also I am playing on PC so I'm not getting any of the technical issues that the consoles are getting and it looks great.

Online
#33 Posted by kashif1 (1428 posts) -
@Hero_Swe said:
Saying stuff is intuitive just means it's easier. I don't want Mario levels of easy gaming. I want my Ninja Gaiden Black. More platforming and harder games for the masses!
not nessesarily, ninja gaiden could also be called intuitive.  The fighting is responsive and most of the moves are easy to get to.  The challenge comes from actually knowing when to use them and when to dodge.  For an unintuitive control scheme I suggest looking at  crisis core, its a great game but scrolling through materia to get to most of the spells is annoying.
#34 Posted by Conker (770 posts) -
@Ygg said:
We need more Gex the Gecko.  Like now.
SHiieeee son, Gex was amazing!
#35 Posted by JackSukeru (5903 posts) -

I miss 3D platformers that aren't Mario or secretly 3rd person shooters (Ratchet & Clank) it's one of the reasons I'll be picking up Alice sometime soon.

#36 Posted by Korolev (1700 posts) -

Alice Madness returns's problem was the repetitive enemies and the fact that you had long stretches of same-same gameplay before something new would come along. I know we all like long games, but actually, I feel A:MR would have benefited from being a bit shorter. Do one "jump onto spouts of air to get to a plaform" puzzle, and you've done them all. A:MA is a good game, but that's due to the story. Far too many times it presented very similar platform segments that weren't hard or very challenging.... they were just there to make the game longer.

I stress that A:MA is a good game and that you should play it - but it's flaw wasn't in the 3D platforming - the flaw was that it had too many similar and rather boring platforming segments. Mario Galaxy 2 knew how to do 3D platforming right: bite-sized chunks, incredibly varied environments, and, in some cases, vastly different enemies, objectives and rules. A:MA, on the other hand, despite having gorgeous environments, doesn't really change things up too much when you're actually in the environment. It relies on the same puzzles over and over and over again (jump on air vents, shrink, triple jump, etc). Variety is the spice of life, and Alice doesn't have enough variety to make it a truly spectacular game.

Still a good game though. Just not a great one.

#37 Posted by theoldhouse (439 posts) -
@rebgav: I think there exists plenty of terrible 2d and 3d platformers. 
 
Obviously as everyone has mentioned galaxy 2 is brilliant. And for my money miles ahead of any 2d platformer. 
#38 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11476 posts) -

I dunno. In some ways I preferred the market oversaturation of bad 3D platformers in the late 90s to the current market oversaturation of bad FPS games. I mean, either way it's not going to be great, but at least we can all go back and laugh at all the horribly mediocre Mario 64 wannabes with their derivative characters and bad cameras, whereas most of the COD wannabes aren't worth even looking at. Also, Mario Galaxy makes your argument invalid.

#39 Posted by Vorbis (2749 posts) -

Fed up of the "only 2D platformers are acceptable" mentality, looking forward to the 3D platformer revival, if not then I'll just settle for Alice and Sly 4 when it's released next year.

#40 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -
@Cloudenvy said:

@Ygg said:

We need more Gex the Gecko. Like now.

*brain implodes due to nostalgia*

 You rang?
#41 Posted by ConstantRa1n (293 posts) -
@OsheaDiesStupid said:
First of all, I am really impressed with Ryan's review of this game, I think  it's maybe one of the best written reviews on the site this year.   Now, I'm a  fan of the original Alice, but I wasn't looking forward for Madness Returns for a simple reason: I don't think 3D platformers work anymore. Jumping around from one island to the next is not intuitive at all in this type of games, and the camera is universally problematic. Back in 2001, this genre was very popular, so Alice was one of the stand-out games due to its unique subject matter. Nowadays, I just don't see a purpose for game mechanics like this. Fortunately, after 2 hours of playing Alice 2 I am enjoying the game somewhat, but I think it's mostly due to the fantastic look and the great soundtrack. I really like the "adventure" parts, and I think some of the voice acting is great. But the level design and combat are lacking, in my opinion. They just seem archaic and clumsy.   Also, I find it funny that some people complain to EA that they didn't get their pre-order dresses with the game. Just the idea of male gamers upset that they can't change Alice's DRESS is..  Edit: Nevermind actually I saw a video with those DLC dresses and they're badass. I might actually buy them right now. 
Are you from 1987? The 2000's have featured an evolution in the genre of platforming. Read some of the other posts to see which games I'm referring to specifically. See you in the future ;)
#42 Posted by buzz_killington (3532 posts) -

They can be done well. Insomniac's Ratchet and Clank: A Crack in Time is a prime example. I wish there were more of them, actually. I really like that style of game.

#43 Posted by Zippedbinders (983 posts) -
@ArbitraryWater said:
I dunno. In some ways I preferred the market oversaturation of bad 3D platformers in the late 90s to the current market oversaturation of bad FPS games. I mean, either way it's not going to be great, but at least we can all go back and laugh at all the horribly mediocre Mario 64 wannabes with their derivative characters and bad cameras, whereas most of the COD wannabes aren't worth even looking at. Also, Mario Galaxy makes your argument invalid.
This current wave of FPS out the wazoo cannot last, no matter how bad Activision wants it to. All of these things come in waves. FPS games will stop being the "it" genre, and something else will move in. It happened with 2D platformers, it happened with fighting games, it happened with FPS (Doom Clones), it happened with JRPGs, it happened with 3D platformers, it happened with Plastic Instrument rhythm games, its going to happen to FPS again.
#44 Posted by LackLuster (713 posts) -

I miss 3d platformers and love Alice

#45 Posted by Rhaknar (5939 posts) -

Alice's platforming is quite good from the 3 or so hours ive played. She covers so much ground (triple jump WITH gliding after each jump) that you really need to fuck up royally to miss a jump.
 
Also, im really glad this game exists, as they are a dying breed indeed.

#46 Posted by invadernick (260 posts) -

I loved 3D platformers back in the day, but I don't think I'll buy this until they fixed the bugs.

#47 Posted by FreakAche (2949 posts) -

I hope after this 2D platformer kick that Nintendo is currently on, that they get back to making a bunch of 3D platformers.  Crossing my fingers for Donkey Kong 64-2 from Retro!

#48 Posted by benpicko (1997 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish said:
You are the reason Rare can't make nice things anymore.
#49 Posted by project343 (2812 posts) -

I miss this game--back when Suckerpunch wasn't a known quantity.  
 

Rocket: Robot On Wheels 
#50 Posted by Oginam (446 posts) -

@Rhaknar said:

Alice's platforming is quite good from the 3 or so hours ive played. She covers so much ground (triple jump WITH gliding after each jump) that you really need to fuck up royally to miss a jump. Also, im really glad this game exists, as they are a dying breed indeed.

This.

Also, story is amazing and dark in ways you'd never even expect. Gonna start promoting it as a goty contender for Best Story now because otherwise I fear it will be forgotten.

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