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E3 Needs to Grow Up

Despite a growing call for change, the organizers of E3 have no plans to address the booth babe issue at the industry's biggest show.

I'm sure these women are well versed in the talking points for Namco Bandai's upcoming fighting game.

There’s been no shortage of discussion about women and video games this past week.

The conversation’s been driven by the gross response to Anita Sarkeesian’s nearly finished Kickstarter about the unfortunate and exclusionary tropes of female video game characters, and the quickly scrutinized comments from a producer on Tomb Raider about a potential rape scene (a description the studio has walked back) in the new game.

These are all good, uncomfortable conversations to have, but if we're talking about the depiction of women in games at such a serious level, how do we still have E3 booth babes? Other than for easy hits in web galleries, anyway.

The commonly referred to booth babe (also known as a "woman") is hired solely to wear skimpy clothing with a game or company’s logo and take photographs with attendees (who does that, by the way?). Typically, they are not well versed in the product they are hired to represent.

It seemed like a good time to check in with the Entertainment Software Association, who manages E3.

Despite some of the recent heated conversation, there are no plans to shift E3 policies.

"Exhibitors determine for themselves what is the best representation for their companies. Models are welcome if companies would like to have them, but that's an individual exhibitor decision,” said ESA VP of media relations and event management Dan Hewitt in an emailed statement to me yesterday.

Ghost Recon Commander designer Brenda Brathwaite sparked a vocal debate on Twitter over booth babes before she headed to the E3 show floor last Thursday.

“I dread heading off to work at E3 today,” she said. “The show is a constant assault on the female self esteem no matter which direction I look. I am in good shape, yet it is impossible not to compare. I feel uncomfortable. It is as if I walked into a strip club w/o intending to. These are the policies of @e3expo and @RichatESA. I feel uncomfortable in an industry I helped found.”

Her comments found plenty of support, such as Inside Network managing editor AJ Glasser.

@br The worst is when I get so good at seeing right through it that I forget they're actually women underneath the barely-there clothes.

— AJ Glasser (@Joygirl007) June 7, 2012

It’s not a new critique, but it was louder this year, and there seems to be a growing desire for change.

There was also the usual “what’s the big deal?” responses, including 3D Realms co-founder George Broussard.

@br I think you/others take it too seriously. It's not some academic event. It's a glitz show full of spectacle. #serious_business

— George Broussard (@georgeb3dr) June 7, 2012

It’s been a few years, but the ESA policy on booth babes has changed from E3's inception. The last major shift came in 2006, as new penalties, fines and policies were introduced regarding women featured in E3 exhibits.

"What's new in 2006 is an update and clarification of the enforcement policies; as we do from time to time, we have taken steps to ensure that exhibitors are familiar with the policy and how it will be enforced," said E3 show director Mary Dolaher to Reuters at the time.

A violation of the clothing policy would result in, at first, a warning, and then a $5,000 fine. Here’s what the handbook from 2006 said to exhibitors considering booth babes--er, sorry, live models:

"Material, including live models, conduct that is sexually explicit and/or sexually provocative, including but not limited to nudity, partial nudity and bathing suit bottoms, are prohibited on the show floor, all common areas, and at any access points to the show."

Hewitt told me there have been no changes to ESA policy since 2006.

Maybe there should be. Consider this anecdote that didn’t even take place on the show floor itself.

This was one of the first results the search term "Devil May Cry strippers" gave me, sorry.

We arrived to our Capcom appointment, I plunked down with Lost Planet 3, and Alex Navarro was ushered over to play Devil May Cry. In a room of kiosks, there were pole dancers. It’s unclear what that has to do with Devil May Cry. The girl hired to skimpily waltz around was sitting on the floor, looking bored. Everyone in the room is focused on playing the game, and Alex wasn't playing Devil May Cry in a see-through bubble. No one on the show floor could see this room. Can someone explain how this helps anyone do their job?

Elsewhere, I refused to play any 3DS games at Nintendo’s booth because the company didn’t have a table with machines, and instead tethered its lineup to attractive women. I let that gimmick slide when Nintendo pulled the same trick at the original 3DS unveiling, but I’ll just wait until those games are out now, thanks.

Nintendo probably thought it was a cute idea. I doubt (and this is my sincere hope) Nintendo meant to undermine the credibility of women at gaming’s biggest show. It's still ignorance. Many of the issues regarding women and E3 aren’t overtly offensive, and can be easily rationalized by those who don’t see a problem.

That’s okay--we should have a debate about it.

And this is all hardly an issue that’s exclusive to games. The same week as E3, the Computex Summit was happening in Taipei, and computer manufacturer ASUS sent out the following tweet:

That tweet has since been deleted and ASUS released an apology, obviously.

I can gripe all I want, but the most effective solution has to come from the ESA itself. Only the ESA can enforce regulations on exhibitors, and let them know this archaic marketing tool needs to go away. If games are growing up, so does the way we go about advertising them in front of, ostensibly, a bunch of professional. This isn’t 1994.

PAX figured this out years ago, even if there have been incidents along the way (i.e. Lollipop Chainsaw at PAX East).

“Our definition of a ‘booth babe’ has been a model (male or female) that has been hired to stand/sit in skimpy clothing to market the product,” said Penny Arcade president of business development in 2010. “If that person knows the product inside and out then it’s less of an issue. A company representative that can interact with attendees in a way that provides value as opposed to ‘hey stare at my body’ is something that we encourage whether or not that representative is physically attractive or not.”

If E3 is supposed to represent the industry’s best, why can’t it figure out how to respect its own attendees?

Patrick Klepek on Google+
1013 Comments
Posted by Nasix

@Salarn said:

@Anund said:

What can I tell you? I don't care about the names of game developers.

And even if I did, I wouldn't support her in this particular issue. If she feels uncomfortable because there are attractive women at E3, that is her problem, not theirs.

I <3 You.

You know nothing about her, yet decide her view on E3 should be discarded and she shouldn't attend E3 if she doesn't like the state of the industry that she works in to provide games that you enjoy.

But it is her problem, though. People shouldn't be up in arms because one person felt uncomfortable. She just felt inadequate because she has competition anxiety. It's clear that her self esteem was shot because other people looked better than she did.

Edited by artgarcrunkle

@TentPole said:

@artgarcrunkle said:

@TentPole said:

@Azraden said:

@TentPole: uhhh what? His first part, which this part is replying to comments to straight out calls, in his words, Arkham City super-duper sexist. It is. I still love the game, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't excuse the dialogue. I don't think anyone has ever convinced another side on an internet argument about sexism, racism, classism, etc, so I'm dropping out of this conversation. I will just say that I hope gamers get better at critical thought if they can't see the difference between how racial slurs are used in Gran Torino and American History X and how rape threats are used in Arkham City and Tomb Raider.

The idea that there is a limit to how awful your characters can be is something that is solely relegated to videogames. Films and books have gotten beyond that decades and centuries ago. It is just growing pains we are going through now and your attitude is poison to creative integrity. If Arkham city supports misogyny then that is something worth getting upset about. But having misogynistic characters alone does not mean that the game is reinforcing misogynistic ideas any more than other works with misogynistic characters: The Road, Blood Meridian. And neither of those books focus on misogyny or are intended to explore it beyond having some pretty shitty characters. One is a pulitzer prize winner and the other is often considered one of the greatest american novels by a living author.

Comparing literature to videogames isn't going to win you any arguments. McCarthy is a master of prose and one of the greatest writers history will know, but misogyny works in those novels because he presents it realistically. The characters are detestable, they're well developed and you stay with them long enough that their actions lend insight to their personalities. You expect things from Glanton's raiders. But you don't expect anything from Mook 1 and Mook 2 so when they pop off at the mouth with "Bitch this bitch that," or whatever people are whinging about, it's jarring to sensitive players.

I understand your point but it's a big stretch. Yeah in a way it's growing pains, but because games primarily need to be fun to play I don't think they'll reach the artistic level of literature or film.

But how are videogames ever going to mature to that point if we never let them try? In a world where no one ever let books try and be more serious and well written Cormac never would have written those great books.

Edit: I just ignored your last paragraph because I disagree with it, sorry. But taking the assumption that games will never reach that level then you are right. I however disagree with that premise entirely. Some films are "fun" some are hard to watch and impactful. I find "enjoyment" form them both and believe videogames have the same potential.

Japanese games have been trying to push serious, deep writing that has impact and it's almost always hilariously bad. I don't think it's an issue of the maturity of the industry as much as it is the industry being unequipped to a) attract the type of talent who would write at that level b) support and foster growth of said talents and c) accept the initial financial burden of pushing games towards high art, or accept that games as high art cannot be as lucrative as mindless escapism.

I mean, Blood Meridian initially sold like 3000 copies. If you told the EA board of directors they spent all this money making a game and not only did it not sell the 6million copies they needed to buy new yachts and collagen injections for their mistresses, but it only sold 3000 copies? They'd probably black bag the production team and make up the difference in cash by selling you to De Beers to work in an African diamond mine. In my mind it's this simple: video games are made to make boatloads of cash, high art does not make boatloads of cash. If we lived in a world where a William Faulkner could outsell a John Grisham then games could be that good.

Posted by bko

Bravo to all the commenters who threw this article right back in gaming journalism's face. As someone pointed out perfectly, E3 grew up in 2007 and "journalists" complained from not having their backs scratched enough even when the show adjusted in 2008 and found a middle ground.

Don't punish E3 for being the messenger. It's a reflection on an infantile industry, its infantile consumers and the infantile journalists who cover it. When everyone grows up, the show will too. It tried to pull you there 5 years ago, and you weren't ready.

Posted by Dagbiker

@Nasix said:

@Salarn said:

@Anund said:

What can I tell you? I don't care about the names of game developers.

And even if I did, I wouldn't support her in this particular issue. If she feels uncomfortable because there are attractive women at E3, that is her problem, not theirs.

I <3 You.

You know nothing about her, yet decide her view on E3 should be discarded and she shouldn't attend E3 if she doesn't like the state of the industry that she works in to provide games that you enjoy.

But it is her problem, though. People shouldn't be up in arms because one person felt uncomfortable. She just felt inadequate because she has competition anxiety. It's clear that her self esteem was shot because other people looked better than she did.

Yah, that is her problem. And that problem started a debate. And if you don't want to be part of the conversation you don't have to.

Posted by nERVEcenter

@Vorbis: Oh god, those costumes are fucking awesome. Why didn't I see these? Planetside 2 was the one game I was paying attention to the most, but whoever designed these costumes deserves some serious props.

Posted by TentPole

@artgarcrunkle said:

Japanese games have been trying to push serious, deep writing that has impact and it's almost always hilariously bad. I don't think it's an issue of the maturity of the industry as much as it is the industry being unequipped to a) attract the type of talent who would write at that level b) support and foster growth of said talents and c) accept the initial financial burden of pushing games towards high art, or accept that games as high art cannot be as lucrative as mindless escapism.

I mean, Blood Meridian initially sold like 3000 copies. If you told the EA board of directors they spent all this money making a game and not only did it not sell the 6million copies they needed to buy new yachts and collagen injections for their mistresses, but it only sold 3000 copies? They'd probably black bag the production team and make up the difference in cash by selling you to De Beers to work in an African diamond mine. In my mind it's this simple: video games are made to make boatloads of cash, high art does not make boatloads of cash. If we lived in a world where a William Faulkner could outsell a John Grisham then games could be that good.

I agree with you in the short term but i disagree with you in the longterm. I think it is a little silly to think we know where the industry will be and what the business side will look like in 50 years, or 100.

Posted by jakob187

@bko said:

Bravo to all the commenters who threw this article right back in gaming journalism's face. As someone pointed out perfectly, E3 grew up in 2007 and "journalists" complained from not having their backs scratched enough even when the show adjusted in 2008 and found a middle ground.

Don't punish E3 for being the messenger. It's a reflection on an infantile industry, its infantile consumers and the infantile journalists who cover it. When everyone grows up, the show will too. It tried to pull you there 5 years ago, and you weren't ready.

Quoted for the muthafuckin' truth!

Everyone in the gaming industry had nothing to say but negative things when E3 decided to tone it all down, take away the glitz and glamour, and turn it into a show about video games. Now they want to complain that the show is all glitz and glamour and half-naked women?

Decide which one you fucking want.

Posted by artgarcrunkle

@TentPole: I plan on being as dead as possible by then. The average person really is getting dumber, I don't believe entertainment that appeals mainly to uh.....maybe the lowest common denominator is going to become more intellectual as time goes on.

Posted by Andorski

@jakob187 said:

@bko said:

Bravo to all the commenters who threw this article right back in gaming journalism's face. As someone pointed out perfectly, E3 grew up in 2007 and "journalists" complained from not having their backs scratched enough even when the show adjusted in 2008 and found a middle ground.

Don't punish E3 for being the messenger. It's a reflection on an infantile industry, its infantile consumers and the infantile journalists who cover it. When everyone grows up, the show will too. It tried to pull you there 5 years ago, and you weren't ready.

Quoted for the muthafuckin' truth!

Everyone in the gaming industry had nothing to say but negative things when E3 decided to tone it all down, take away the glitz and glamour, and turn it into a show about video games. Now they want to complain that the show is all glitz and glamour and half-naked women?

Decide which one you fucking want.

This is assuming that it's impossible to make a spectacle of this industry without showing tits and ass.

Posted by Deusx

I agree with this article and although I think the Woman vs Tropes campaign project is wrong (Not because of the project but because of the amount of money the creator got, it´s absurd. She doesn´t need that kind of money and she is definitely not going to use it.) I still have to agree with everything you said Patrick. Look, I´m a man and I like looking at beautiful woman but that´s why I look at my girlfriend, I don´t find the idea of looking at strangers any appealing. Even if I was single, I cannot find any sexual arousal from someone I don´t have a conection with... At least not in a fucking show floor.

Posted by Snipzor

Umm... can someone explain to me why everyone is so outraged about the topic being brought up? I mean seriously, reminds me of someone getting more offended at someone who says they were offended by something. And by reminds me, I mean, it's exactly like that. I am confused at the outrage over the critique. Or am I thinking too hard into it and it's really a bunch of guys who wanna continue the whole no girl club of gaming?

If it is the latter, are Homers banned from this club too?

Posted by AngriGhandi

The points in this article are quite reasonable and I find myself agreeing with them as a reasonable person.

Just putting that out there in case everybody else said something really dumb

Posted by rain_elbows

Slow news day eh?

Posted by mpgeist

At the risk of being struck down fiercely I have to ask a question. This is honest and I really want to know. If E3 booth babes are a terrible thing, why do the women who dress and participate in this at least not given a sliver of the blame? I just can't get why this is such as one sided argument against men. I enjoy looking at attractive women sure, but all the women in my life I treat with utmost respect and hold no grudge against anyone who is more successful than me. Aren't we all adults here who can make our own decisions to be booth babes or ceo's or whatever?

Posted by Pop

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

Posted by artgarcrunkle

@Andorski said:

@jakob187 said:

@bko said:

Bravo to all the commenters who threw this article right back in gaming journalism's face. As someone pointed out perfectly, E3 grew up in 2007 and "journalists" complained from not having their backs scratched enough even when the show adjusted in 2008 and found a middle ground.

Don't punish E3 for being the messenger. It's a reflection on an infantile industry, its infantile consumers and the infantile journalists who cover it. When everyone grows up, the show will too. It tried to pull you there 5 years ago, and you weren't ready.

Quoted for the muthafuckin' truth!

Everyone in the gaming industry had nothing to say but negative things when E3 decided to tone it all down, take away the glitz and glamour, and turn it into a show about video games. Now they want to complain that the show is all glitz and glamour and half-naked women?

Decide which one you fucking want.

This is assuming that it's impossible to make a spectacle of this industry without showing tits and ass.

They tried to get that giant robot who eats cars at monster truck rallies but he said "Videogames are for nerds."

Posted by Zaxex

E3 booth babes? Kind of an awkward and blunt marketing concept, but that's how some companies market certain things to men.

It's probably just a convention thing and though I don't really support it It's hard to care all too much.

The woman's tweet seemed bizarre too, would you really change the way you operate a convention because an attendee felt uncomfortable, because they thought other people were prettier?

We already know that E3 and the companies that show things there don't act in the best interests of a great amount of their fans. Many of the games, other software and hardware they make already aims at a broader demographic than their actual consumers. If money can be made, they're there to make it.

Posted by DeadSpace

Part of the problem is that video game coverage (and even this critique of video game coverage) presume a male, heterosexual audience. Hence Patrick's "sorry" attached to the picture of Dante. It's possible that many people on this site even could be more into the picture of Dante than they are into the picture of the booth babes that was chosen to headline the article. I know that it's empirically true that most people who play the games we do are heterosexual men, but most is not all, and the first step to broadening our palate as a community is to allow for a wide range of tastes and not, for instance, to assume that we're all wincing at the sight of sexy Dante.

Posted by Dagbiker

Woman are pretty, and Im not a monster for looking at them just like my fake, made up girlfriend is not a monster. But there is a time and a place, that time is 12:00 at night, when everyone is in bed. And the place is in your room, on your computer, with your head phones on so your Mom roommate doesn't hear you.

Not in a press only convention made for the press to show off your games.

Posted by FoolishChaos

@rain_elbows said:

Slow news day eh?

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.

Hey guys lets talk more about how e3 demos are too actiony and how booth babes are dumb. We totally haven't had to go over this every year since ever

Posted by TheHumanDove

@artgarcrunkle said:

@Andorski said:

@jakob187 said:

@bko said:

Bravo to all the commenters who threw this article right back in gaming journalism's face. As someone pointed out perfectly, E3 grew up in 2007 and "journalists" complained from not having their backs scratched enough even when the show adjusted in 2008 and found a middle ground.

Don't punish E3 for being the messenger. It's a reflection on an infantile industry, its infantile consumers and the infantile journalists who cover it. When everyone grows up, the show will too. It tried to pull you there 5 years ago, and you weren't ready.

Quoted for the muthafuckin' truth!

Everyone in the gaming industry had nothing to say but negative things when E3 decided to tone it all down, take away the glitz and glamour, and turn it into a show about video games. Now they want to complain that the show is all glitz and glamour and half-naked women?

Decide which one you fucking want.

This is assuming that it's impossible to make a spectacle of this industry without showing tits and ass.

They tried to get that giant robot who eats cars at monster truck rallies but he said "Videogames are for nerds."

Gravedigger's up for anything

Posted by SleepyDoughnut

This article title should have been about booth babes explicitly, it can too easily be misinterpreted that Pat thinks that the show as a whole is immature, which is not really what the article's about.

Posted by Razorlution

Yawn...

Edited by artgarcrunkle

@TheHumanDove: SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY IT'S SOLID SNAKE VS. THE MONGOOSE. YOU'LL PAY FOR THE WHOLE SEAT BUT YOU'LL ONLY USE THE EDGE EDGE! EDGE!!

Edited by c0l0nelp0c0rn1

Posted by depecheload

Booth babes are sexist towards women for obvious reasons, and the concept of them is also sexist towards men as well, assuming that all men are easily aroused troglodytes who will give a product more attention if a half-naked woman is standing by it. The only people who "win" when a convention uses them are the models they employ. Everyone else just ends up looking bad.

Posted by TentPole

@artgarcrunkle said:

@TentPole: I plan on being as dead as possible by then. The average person really is getting dumber, I don't believe entertainment that appeals mainly to uh.....maybe the lowest common denominator is going to become more intellectual as time goes on.

I simply disagree that videogames cannot and will not ever pertain to more than the dumbest among us. If that is your view on games that is fine, but I will disagree with you. There will always be dumb games but the smart games are getting smarter and will continue to do so.

Posted by CouncilSpectre

Can you guys do an article showing the best booth babes at E3?

That would be awesome! Thanks.

Posted by Karkarov

@jakob187 said:

@bko said:

Bravo to all the commenters who threw this article right back in gaming journalism's face. As someone pointed out perfectly, E3 grew up in 2007 and "journalists" complained from not having their backs scratched enough even when the show adjusted in 2008 and found a middle ground.

Don't punish E3 for being the messenger. It's a reflection on an infantile industry, its infantile consumers and the infantile journalists who cover it. When everyone grows up, the show will too. It tried to pull you there 5 years ago, and you weren't ready.

Quoted for the muthafuckin' truth!

Everyone in the gaming industry had nothing to say but negative things when E3 decided to tone it all down, take away the glitz and glamour, and turn it into a show about video games. Now they want to complain that the show is all glitz and glamour and half-naked women?

Decide which one you fucking want.

Even more quoted for truth, was about to post the same stuff and I was beaten to it. So in short...

If "Booth Babes" (or should I say attractive women in revealing clothing?) didn't work and no one liked them they wouldn't be there. It is that simple.

Posted by Bartz

This whole conversation is so stupid. Every time the "sexism in games" thing comes up I have to facepalm from the childishness of everyone whingeing about it. Things aren't going to change until you castrate and emasculate every man in the world so that they no longer have natural male biological impulses.

Is that really what you want?

Oh, and nobody can complain about silly things like this while the porn industry exists.

Posted by YukoAsho

@AngelN7 said:

Yeah but who produces those "booth babes montages"? ... game "journalist" so people can watch them, because that's what they want people to do? or not? I don't even know anymore.

Capitalism, basically. No one is psychic, so any content creator can totally whiff it on what content the consumer wants.

Be it a booth babe montage or a video game, content creators are working under the hope that the content they create will be appealing, as they in turn get money, be it from the consumer directly or from advertisers.

Basically, if a certain piece of content is made and the consumer rejects it, that line of creation will almost certainly cease. This is why we never got the rest of the Advent Rising or Too Human trilogies.

If the consumer embraces a certain piece of content, more will be made. This is why we get more Halo and Mario.

Basically, someone tried a booth babe montage back in the day and found that people liked looking at them. It would run against all business sense for a content creator not to continue content that is desired.

Edited by Anwar

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that WB would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

Posted by Napalm

@McQuinn said:

Patrick, I feel you should stick to reporting the news and instead of trying to write it. I always feel you come off a bit pretentious. Not that there is any strong reason behind models in a video game environment, but that's how advertisement works. E3 isn't a business meeting, it's a trade show. I'm sure it'll change its self in time, but you forcing this issue into the news only makes me hate you.

He's just piggybacking Ben Kuchera's original article.

Edited by jakob187

You know...

I'm sitting here and thinking about it...

Isn't this the same website that talks about stabbing dudes in the face and neck? The same website that makes inate sexual references on a regular basis on their podcast and in video content? The same website that spent a lengthy amount of time talking about Peter Molyneux's balls?

I mean, I get it - it's all in the sense of humor. At the same time, it's that immature sense of humor that people continually latch onto, and in turn, the Giant Bomb crew provides us with more and more of it on a daily basis. While we eat it up and beg for more, they are now posting up an article that is basically saying "hey, E3 needs to grow up because boobies shouldn't be at trade shows".

Yet...you guys can get paid for being immature, podcasting via live-stream under inebriated circumstances while other game developers do the same thing, and Jeff can make creepy jokes about games like Otomedius Excellent...and it's somehow magically better than some half-naked chicks trying to get a paycheck at a trade show?

I mean, it's not like the exhibitors are paying these chicks to blow you while you play the game. They are paid to look pretty, just as models ALL OVER THE WORLD are paid to look pretty. If you don't want to play the DS that is attached to the lady, then don't. That's your right...just as much as it's the right of the exhibitors to use scantily-clad women if they want to.

If it makes someone uncomfortable, well hey...guess what? I was made uncomfortable by the Bombcast talk of eating someone's leg. I mean that - I was literally uncomfortable to the point that I kept trying to skip past it...and it kept going and going and going. So, since I'm uncomfortable about you guys talking about eating someone's leg, can you now not talk about cannibalism again?

No. That's just me being uncomfortable with it. It means I skipped ahead and I avoided it, just the same as how you avoided playing DS games attached to some lady.

So...preaching about immaturity in the games industry when your website features a plethora of immaturity...seems like a bit of a double negative, yeah?

I'm not saying you guys aren't intelligent, that you don't talk about serious stuff, that you guys are jerk-offs or anything. I'm saying that if you want to complain about one thing, then you need to complain about everything else and even point the finger back at yourself when it comes to "immaturity in the gaming industry".\

I mean, for fuck's sake, Patrick... This website almost gave Game of the Year to SAINT'S ROW THE THIRD, A GAME THAT FEATURES MORE IMMATURITY THAN ANYTHING I CAN IMMEDIATELY THINK OF! (an amazing game that I thoroughly fucking loved by the way...not to raise the ire of Ryan like I'm Jason Rubin or something)

Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG

Im young so its not like women dressed up like that are a big deal for me but I still think its degrading for the women and its really immature.  Patrick's right, the industry does really need to grow up I mean as he said before, why would anyone take pictures with them?  

Posted by YukoAsho

@TentPole said:

I agree with you in the short term but i disagree with you in the longterm. I think it is a little silly to think we know where the industry will be and what the business side will look like in 50 years, or 100.

Try 20. Go to 1992 in the DeLorian and talk to a Toys R Us sales rep selling Genesis and SNES carts at the back of the store that in 2012, video games would be focused more on the 18-34 male demographic and take up a huge section of the front store space, then watch as they laugh at you.

Posted by President_Barackbar

I think booth babes are a holdover from when E3 was open to the public that just haven't gone away yet. Most real journalists have an agenda at E3, so the idea of using a booth babe to "sway" them is really dumb. The only people who take pictures with and ogle booth babes are people who get in the show through a super sketchy barely there link to journalism.

Posted by TentPole

@jakob187 said:

You know...

I'm sitting here and thinking about it...

Isn't this the same website that talks about stabbing dudes in the face and neck? The same website that makes inate sexual references on a regular basis on their podcast and in video content? The same website that spent a lengthy amount of time talking about Peter Molyneux's balls?

I mean, I get it - it's all in the sense of humor. At the same time, it's that immature sense of humor that people continually latch onto, and in turn, the Giant Bomb crew provides us with more and more of it on a daily basis. While we eat it up and beg for more, they are now posting up an article that is basically saying "hey, E3 needs to grow up because boobies shouldn't be at trade shows".

Yet...you guys can get paid for being immature, podcasting via live-stream under inebriated circumstances while other game developers do the same thing, and Jeff can make creepy jokes about games like Otomedius Excellent...and it's somehow magically better than some half-naked chicks trying to get a paycheck at a trade show?

I mean, it's not like the exhibitors are paying these chicks to blow you while you play the game. They are paid to look pretty, just as models ALL OVER THE WORLD are paid to look pretty. If you don't want to play the DS that is attached to the lady, then don't. That's your right...just as much as it's the right of the exhibitors to use scantily-clad women if they want to.

If it makes someone uncomfortable, well hey...guess what? I was made uncomfortable by the Bombcast talk of eating someone's leg. I mean that - I was literally uncomfortable to the point that I kept trying to skip past it...and it kept going and going and going. So, since I'm uncomfortable about you guys talking about eating someone's leg, can you now not talk about cannibalism again?

No. That's just me being uncomfortable with it. It means I skipped ahead and I avoided it, just the same as how you avoided playing DS games attached to some lady.

So...preaching about immaturity in the games industry when your website features a plethora of immaturity...seems like a bit of a double negative, yeah?

I'm not saying you guys aren't intelligent, that you don't talk about serious stuff, that you guys are jerk-offs or anything. I'm saying that if you want to complain about one thing, then you need to complain about everything else and even point the finger back at yourself.

Valid and astute.

Posted by Napalm

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

Well, just when I think I couldn't lose any more respect for the Penny Arcade guys.

@jakob187: I wish I could formulate how happy I am at your response. The game enthusiast press has been irritating me so goddamn much as of late, that every time some call-to-arms bullshit like this comes along, I just roll my fucking eyes. In turn, if you want to complain about something as fucking trivial as booth babes, then complain about the infantilism of our entire fucking society as a whole.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

Capcom? Lollipop Chainsaw is WB games.

Posted by Anwar

@Napalm said:

@McQuinn said:

Patrick, I feel you should stick to reporting the news and instead of trying to write it. I always feel you come off a bit pretentious. Not that there is any strong reason behind models in a video game environment, but that's how advertisement works. E3 isn't a business meeting, it's a trade show. I'm sure it'll change its self in time, but you forcing this issue into the news only makes me hate you.

He's just piggybacking Ben Kuchera's original article.

Hey, man, he continues giantbomb's tradition of bringing up stale news. Like the release date of The Last Of Us.

http://www.videogamer.com/ps3/the_last_of_us/news/the_last_of_us_confirmed_for_2013.html

Shuhei Yoshida saying it will not be released in 2012 isn't enough(it was obviously a 2016 release before it was CONFIRMED on Jimmy Fallon).

The news-Brad who's not working for GB anymore wasn't having those 'scoops' like Patrick does, but he was fast and loose with the news. Which is what news is about. And if you try to make investigative journalism, how about finding out what's going on behind the scenes of The Last Guardian. That is something which I would love to read.

Posted by mercury228

I agree and disagree with some of these things. Violence is also present at the show, and sex sells. I do not like it, but we are in minority. I think it is kinda dumb because many of us gamers have grown up. I would also say though that Saints Row the Third falls under the category of 100% offensive to women and many other things, but that's okay? I don't know the answer, but I think we should re-evaluate what is acceptable in the gaming industry, and stop overly objectifying women. Their is nothing wrong with sex, but their is a thin line between tasteful, funny, or appealing sex and just downright disturbing content. I am fine with having sexy women at the show, but stop with the insane comments and act like an adult.

Posted by Napalm

@Anwar: I'm not here to hate on Patrick. I like most of his stories, but this call-to-arms piggybacking shit has gotten irritating.

Posted by YukoAsho

@President_Barackbar said:

I think booth babes are a holdover from when E3 was open to the public that just haven't gone away yet. Most real journalists have an agenda at E3, so the idea of using a booth babe to "sway" them is really dumb. The only people who take pictures with and ogle booth babes are people who get in the show through a super sketchy barely there link to journalism.

The general public was never allowed into E3. People snuck in (and do so now), but it's never been a public event like PAX. The influx of people who weren't supposed to be there, as well as the increasingly expensive spectacle of E3, came to a head after the 2006 expo which had such luminaries as Paris Hilton showing up. That's why we had the more professional shows from 07-09 that the gaming journalists, most of whom were there for the spectacle as much as the games, hated.

Edited by jakob187

I mean, I'm immature as fuck...but that's just because it's who I am. I'm not sitting here trying to say I'm a perfect goddamn angel. I'm just saying that the double standard of what is trying to say saying here is a little...I don't know, it just seems really fucking backwards, man.

Hell, if we're going to go the route of saying "booth babes at E3 are degrading to women", then you should also go down the path of saying "cosplayers at PAX and SDCC are degrading to women", as those are THE ATTENDEES dressing up as scantily-clad characters and literally FLAUNTING that fact. We should say that celebrities cannot use sex appeal in order to sell their products, that male musicians cannot allow women to dance and shake their ass and dress inapproriately...

It's America. It's sex appeal. It's better than killing people. What's the big fucking deal?

Posted by TheHumanDove

I dont get the whole booth babe thing and being immature. Attractive women have been at events for anything for decades/centuries(?). I mean come on, this isn't a step back in comparison to fucking anything.

Posted by Pop

@Anwar said:

@YukoAsho said:

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

Capcom? Lollipop Chainsaw is WB games.

My bad, thought it was Capcom for some reason, sorry for that mistake.

oh she didn't get banned she just had to change into the normal Juliet cheerleader costume.

Posted by Bizen247

Leave the white knighting clickbait on Kotaku plz.

Posted by SexualBubblegumX

@Claude said:

Aborted fetuses tethered to a 3DS would have been funnier.

OMG I love you Claude.