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Eight Women, Eight Responses, and One Dead Island Riptide Statue

A collection of reactions to last week's questionable marketing tactic from a variety of women in the video game industry.

Deep Silver likely did not anticipate the intense reaction to its UK-specific Zombie Bait bundle for Dead Island Riptide when it was announced last week. The news came alongside other bundles for the sequel, but the Zombie Bait bundle received attention for a statue of a torn apart woman that featured nothing more than her bikini-wearing torso.

Deep Silver’s issued a questionable apology in response to the furor. The company did not discuss how this bundle even came into existence, and still hasn’t said whether it will be sold or not. One would hope not? I’ve asked the company for further clarification on that point, but as of publication, nothing has come back.

Here's the company's previous statement in full:

“We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.

For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.

We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.”

The story featured my own opinion on the subject, as do most pieces of content on Giant Bomb. You might have suspected part of my response, based on previous articles I’ve filed at the site, and the reaction was along the lines of the last conversation about #1reasonwhy. When I was mulling a follow-up, I didn’t want to have the same back-and-forth, and hoped to introduce some new voices.

So, I reached out to a number of women members of the video game community, and asked them to provide their individual reactions. There are voices from everywhere in games, from development to fellow writers. I didn't specifically seek out people who had expressed an opinion about Dead Island, I just figured they had one. Some chose to speak directly to what happened, some didn't. There weren't any rules.

I’m also going to start something new here. I won't guarantee it’ll happen every time, but for big features, I want to make sure there’s a dedicated time slot for spending time responding to comments. It won’t happen until the story has been up for a little while, and people have had a chance to digest it. In this case, it’s going to be for 30 minutes at 11:30 a.m. PST. As always, anything I don’t get to can be addressed in PM, on Twitter, or through my Tumblr site.

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Rhianna Pratchett, writer (Tomb Raider, Mirror’s Edge)

I’m both a horror fan, and a Dead Island fan. But my initial reaction to Riptide’s mutilated torso was one of shock, bewilderment and confusion. I wasn’t morally outraged. It was more a deep sigh and eye roll of “Oh come on… really? REALLY?” Yes, horror and sex have been intertwined forever, but there was something about the visual depiction of this one that was unexpectedly disgusting for a number of reasons. A mutilated corpse (of either sex) is pretty disturbing, sure. A sexed-up (and there no other way to describe the perfectly round, barely covered up and non-zombified knockers) female corpse, offered up as a reward, has particularly nasty connotations. Especially when combined with the fact that it’s described as 'bait'--a confusing title for what was apparently meant to be (according to the developers) a zombie’s torso, rather than the mutilated and cut up human torso that it actually looked like. Zombies are not normally known for the penchant to chew down on the flesh of other zombies.

I’m accustomed to game companies marketing towards men. But rarely is it quite so blatantly i.e. "Here are some tits!" It’s a mistake to ignore the legions of female gamers out there, who enjoy their zombie killing just as much as the guys. It’s an even bigger mistake to outright annoy them. Believe me, I know this. I’ve got first-hand experience of being caught-up with a video games "controversy" on Tomb Raider, and so I know that marketing and the way we speak about and depict our characters and games is important. Industry and player debate about how we go about this is also valuable.

I was glad to see Deep Silver apologising for this rather large misstep, although I was a little perplexed by the fact that they seemed to use the fact that players apparently do this in the game (or at least have the option to) as some kind of get-out-of-jail card. I’ve done some horrendous things in games. I don’t particularly want to see them immortalised in statue form.

There’s been a lot of talk about whether it would have been okay if it was a male statue. But the fact that it isn’t (and we can only really talk about what we’ve been presented with, not what we haven’t) combined with the way the torso’s been depicted, strongly suggests that the marketeers would never have done that. A sexed-up male torso (and even with a six-pack it’s not quite the same) wouldn’t have appealed to the intended audience (straight men) in the same way. If they’d wanted to keep up this mutilated torso theme then a male torso and female torso, leaning against each other in zombie-baiting harmony, would’ve been a better way to go about it. And, given that the first game had a 50/50 male to female ratio of player characters and a similar ratio in the AI, rather more in keeping with the general tone of the game.

Better still, something like AMC’s Walking Dead collector’s edition head would have been more appropriate and arguably less offensive.

Follow more of Rhianna's work at www.rhiannapratchett.com and on Twitter.

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Clarice Meadows, writer and former sales operation manager at Take-Two Interactive

When marketing departments come up with various tchotchkes to get people to buy a video game, there are a lot of factors that come into it. Theme, desirability, originality, and more. It's a matter of making something unusual and interesting enough, and yet appropriately themed for the game, that fans will absolutely HAVE to buy it. I like to think that there are focus groups involved in the choice of object, or at the very least more than just a bunch of marketing types being locked in a room for days fueled by caffeine and junk food until they come up with an idea and are let out. Sadly, I am pretty sure the latter is usually the case. The zombie torso created specifically for Dead Island Riptide was, in my opinion, a marketing catastrophe. I've heard many responses to this particular item. From "well women don't play games anyway" to "by getting mad about it and yelling, you guys are giving this company free advertising" to "it's like a classical sculpture of antiquity, but a zombie!" So let's break this down a bit.

1) I am a woman, and I play video games. I am not particularly unusual in my gender group in choosing to play video games. I grew up in the 80s, video games were around, and I liked them. I also happen to know quite a few other women who play games, including games like Dead Island. By ignoring women as a market demographic for a video game, companies are losing out hugely. By assuming women will only buy pink, glittery items or games that are about clothing and boyfriends, these companies are losing money. By putting out a completely sexist and crass marketing ploy, they are losing money. Seriously, isn't the point of triple-A games to make scads of cash? I really don't get making choices that lead to losing it instead, can you tell?

2) By yelling about something offensive, we're making a case that offensive marketing is unacceptable. By not yelling, we're giving silent consent to continuing crappy and cheap marketing choices. And trust me, this is crappy, cheap AND lazy marketing. Oh look, a pair of boobs! How innovative! Apparently these marketers think the only people playing video games are under-sexed pubescent mole men. I mean… seriously? Lazy.

3) The last time I checked, classical sculptures did not have boob jobs. Also, the last time I checked, real boobs did not do that while in a string bikini. There's this thing called gravity… And if we're going to have an argument that this torso is not overly sexed up and has turned a live woman (or live lady zombie) into a bunch of sex organs, then… well… someone is lying to themselves. Is it appropriate? Is necrophilia really acceptable now? Because that's what this feels like it's promoting to me.

Lazy and cheap marketing ploys don't make money, they cost money in PR nightmares and hours of dancing around apologizing. It doesn't take much to be smarter, and who knows? Maybe a new market full of lots of money will open up and be willing to spend that money on video games! I mean, didn't you hear that women have jobs and make money and LOVE to spend it? Think big video game companies. Think about all that cash you're letting slide right through your fingers, and play it smarter.

Follow more of Clarice's work at Plays Like a Girl and on Twitter.

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Kate Lorimer, composer and writer

For my part, yes, I found it offensive, it was “the straw that broke the camel’s back” (though I am sure it won't be the last such incident) after a year of dodgy marketing (Hitman, Booth Babes, Tomb Raider, Girlfriend Mode, Anita Sarkeesian). And from a personal viewpoint, even a close friend expressing his being fed up with online “outrage” and “Feminist point-scoring pandering” from game websites like Rock Paper Shotgun--his words--and his complete (and somewhat deliberate) misunderstanding of the concept of Feminism (being supposedly more about pursuing Women’s interests above male's, as opposed to actually being about equality for both genders).

Unfortunately, amongst teens and younger players in general (but as Jenny Haniver has shown, far from exclusively) there’s likely to be a kneejerk reaction backlash at the outrage and offence caused by it, as kids love a bit of blood'n'gore, and certainly amongst the heterosexual hormone fueled boys that whole “cor... boobies” thing has an attraction. See: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153593/yes-ah-tah

The reasons for it being offensive are obvious to the clear of thought--it's objectification at its worst. Remove the person from the body, inexplicably leaving a pubescent boy’s idea of the perfect female figure, with balloon boobs (mysteriously untouched by hungry zombie snacking) and a peek at a panty enclosed crotch--of course, hiding the vagina within--which would likely be too offensive/edgy to the same boys!

Would the situation have been mitigated had there been an alternative option of a male torso? It might have slightly balanced the equality issue, though of course there is a special obsession with boobies--especially globe-tastic ones on an itty bitty waist! But the fact that it's just a female torso they decided to go with speaks volumes about their marketing, and the usual narrow-minded targeted demographic. It might have been just as grisly but slightly more in line with the zombie ethos to have had a scary looking zombie head?

Follow more of Kate's work at K8-bit and on Twitter.

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Elizabeth DeLoria, staff writer at Gameranx and cosplay photographer

In September last year, Jill Meagher, a 29-year-old ABC employee, went missing while walking the short walk home from a popular Melbourne street. Thanks to a somewhat viral social media campaign, the entire country began to follow the case, people everywhere wanting Jill to be found alive and well and brought home.

When she was found murdered, buried in a shallow roadside grave after being kidnapped and sexually assaulted by a complete stranger, the entire country went from hopefully to angry. Angry that someone would do this, angry that she wasn't alive and well as we'd hoped, angry that she was minding her own business in her own suburb when she was attacked. People were so angry that when the alleged killer's name leaked, social media erupted with people from every walk of life wanting his head. An entire nation was in mourning, and thousands in Melbourne marched in her honor.

I mention this because we know it's not okay to kill people. We're angered and heartbroken when women are violently murdered (and that's just the cases we hear about.) The news of Jill Meagher, as an example, was devastating to thousands that didn't even know her. Yet at the same time, we're sent these messages that sexualize, glamorize and exploit a woman's decapitated torso. That use violent murder for the purpose of sex appeal and thus profit.

When I see the same people who I saw march for Jill, whose heart sank when they heard the news of her death ask me why this torso statue is "such a big deal," I don't even know how to begin to explain to them how they've come so close to the right thing, yet they sit so far from it.

I'm not really offended, I'm just mortified at how easily we seem to forget.

Follow more of Elizabeth's work at Gameranx and on Twitter.

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Vanessa Hunter, artist and game design graduate

We need to start at the beginning if we are to stop the pervasiveness of sexism in gaming culture, and by sticking this statue in a set that will be received by kids and young adults, Deep Silver is reinforcing an already warped attitude toward women held by the gaming community.

If this statue had been reminiscent of Venus de Milo or the statue of David, and posed in a beautiful, creative way, perhaps I could have even admired it. But as a hunk of flesh plopped into a lifeless pose and trussed up in a string bikini, I seriously have to question the thought behind it.

My main reaction to this statue, however, is that it presents a woman as a literal piece of dead meat. It beheads all personality and life and strips away individuality to present the viewer with what is simply a hunk of flesh in a gaudy bikini. This figure gets up and screams "all I am worth is to fulfill your pleasures"

To a woman like me, it's sickening because it represents how some men see real-life women every day.

From someone who has seen firsthand how a monster who holds this attitude can choke the life out of someone beautiful and radiant, this bust is a nightmare come true. And what's worse is that the attitudes behind such an object reinforce this behaviour as okay.

As for Deep Silver's "apology" placing the blame on its fan base, many of whom view them as a role model, teaching them that sexism is okay if someone else has done it before is unacceptable. They need to grow up.

Follow more of Vanesssa's work through Instagram and on Twitter.

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Anonymous

I didn't feel offended by the Dead Island bikini statue. I did, however, find it quite tiresome. I don't think that it can be denied that the statue is an obvious example of sexual objectification--a mutilated torso with perfectly untouched breasts.

Sexual objectification of women is everywhere, and it's impact is a massive discussion that goes way beyond video games. What I found most tiresome about the statue wasn't the objectification but that making a statue such as this suggests a number of things that Deep Silver assumes about their audience. They assume that the audience are young shallow men whose main interests are tits and violence. It's insulting to men and its a common assumption in video game marketing. Women are not even considered as part of the possible audience. It's outdated thinking.

I've been playing video games since I was a kid, and it's probably the main thing I do for entertainment. I have as many female friends as male who play video games. It is tiresome to be constantly excluded--and if I am included then I am considered a novelty. Women who play games are a sizable chunk of the audience and have been around for as long as video games. Objects like this statue show that we are not really considered to exist.

This individual chose not to share their personal information for fear of potential backlash.

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Melissa Cooke, writer for FemmeGamer

Personally, I think that it's rather disgusting that Deep Silver decided to sell this. The usage of a female chest and abdomen I assume was originally used as a shock tactic to grab the eyes of the media, obviously this has worked, but what made it sexist in my eyes was the way it was dressed up and the proportions on the body.

The breasts are very unrealistic in the way they're being held up by a string bikini, not to mention that there are no wounds on the breasts, making them all the more obvious.The stomach is also very flat, and the bust looks almost anorexic, which is a very damaging image to promote.

The bust lacks also a face or any other feature that makes this bust look human, which could be interpreted as Deep Silver saying "Look this isn't a human, it's a woman, look how her breasts are positioned for your enjoyment, isn't that cool?"

Overall, this is a rather shameless grab for attention on Deep Silver's part, and all this sort of stunt does is give the non-gaming public the idea that games and the people who are playing them are immature, and push any progress the industry has made back a few more years.

Follow Melissa's work at Femme Gamer and on Twitter.

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Anna Kipnis, senior gameplay programmer at Double Fine Productions

It's really hard to approach this topic in any kind of novel way. At this point, it's hard to bring round people who have made their minds up that feminism threatens to ruin their entertainment; to convince them that it's troubling to have games openly revel in dismembering decomposing women in bikinis. Yet I don't believe in censorship, either. Personally, I push this sort of thing into the same category in my brain as boob mugs (which I respect more for at least cutting to the chase and showing actual nudity). I'm not sure why someone would want a headless, bloody, dismembered corpse of a woman's upper torso, with grotesquely fake boobs obscured by a sadly implicated union jack proudly displayed on their mantle, but they're not a person I can imagine seeing eye-to-eye with on many things.

I honestly believe you can have sexiness and violence in games, even at the same time, if that's what you want. I can't think of a great example of a game that has done this particularly well (no doubt there is one), but there are many examples in film. For instance, Quentin Tarantino has made plenty of movies over the years that feature sexy women in violent situations. Even women getting dismembered (Kill Bill Volume 1, Death Proof), and yet it's never felt sexist or misogynist to me. I walk away from the theater generally thinking of those women as role models, not victims.

I think it's on us, game developers, to prevent controversies like this one. I'm a game programmer and I would be pretty bummed if I was working on what was essentially a game equivalent of a boob mug. You're appealing to the lowest, most vulgar aspects of your audience at a time when games are widely criticized for being juvenile, senseless, and immature, only to then complain that the medium is not being taken seriously as an art form. We should strive to treat our medium with the respect it deserves.

Follow Anna's work at Double Fine Productions and on Twitter.

Patrick Klepek on Google+
2527 Comments
Posted by biggest_loser

@Binman88 said:

there was a time when women were portrayed as the dumb house wife in ads who had to crawl on their knees for men. Just remember that.

Crazy. The implication that things are being "evened up" makes it ok? You might want to clarify what you mean here. If it was bad then, it's bad now.

He's complaining that all ads now make men look stupid. I never said anything about it now being evened up and that its okay. I'm just pointing out that both genders have at different times been subjected to ridicule, meaning that it is futile to suggest that there is one specific gender being pushed. Th focus changes all the time.

Posted by biggest_loser

@JoshyLee said:

@Hailinel said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor...

Oh God I would love to see the forums after that. They would fucking lose their shit.

It would be one hell of a sight to see.

I don't think people would mind. The issue isn't that we hate women. (even though you would like it to be as it would make us seem like terrible people) The issue is that Patrick is exploiting the idea of feminism so that people will pay attention to him. If he reported the fucking news no one would mind. But Alex is doing that. Patrick is trying to get page view through sensationalist bullshit.

Exploiting the idea of feminism...how is he doing that? Has ever mentioned the ideology of feminism? No he just found the statue tasteless and didn't understand how it was allowed to pass. And how is this sensational at all? He just asked people within the industry for their perspective. It has nothing to do with feminism.

Posted by CastleD
@biggest_loser said:

@Missacre said:

@CastleD said:

If some of you guys think the fuss over this statue is overblown, you have to start realizing that in society the only time something really matters is when it affects women. It doesn't matter if its as trivial as a statue, or life and death issues. For example, males commit suicide at a rate of 4 to 1 over females. Guess what, nobody cares (and that's just one example of many).

Also, there's nothing brave and bold about Patrick Klepeck writing this article or his female friendly stance on these issues. Our entire media is feminist. Now, a journalist who criticizes aspects of feminism, even the slightest, that takes brass balls, because you risk ostracizing yourself or even losing your job. So you guys should stop congratulating Klepeck as if he's some type of trailblazer. This article is as mainstream and safe as it gets. I get the sense that he likes to "troll", whether it be his fellow male gamers who he looks down upon, or jukeboxes.

It's presented as if females are usually silenced, so we're giving them a voice finally. Meanwhile, our entire media is female-centric (like HuffPo for example), and issues affecting women are discussed all day, every day, not to mention our government and schools who care mostly about women. As a man, I'm more annoyed by commercials on television that treat men as total morons and women as SuperSassySmart who have to "tolerate" the male moron, than this statue, even though I personally don't like it and think it's grotesque.

Video games are one of last forms of media that doesn't cater and pander to women, and that won't do. That's one reason you see a backlash from guys when this subject comes up.

Final politically incorrect note: one reason the video game industry has been male dominated is because males have always been more interested in video games than females. I'm not exactly sure why that is, but from my observation its' mostly natural and not a social construct. It's not because men are evil misogynists, feel "threatened" by women, or any other phantom reasons. Misogyny exists of course, as does misandry, but it's overblown. Most men love women, want to be near women, enjoy working with them, and like doing things for women. I do.

Oh god, this. This so much. You sir, I want to shake your hand. Finally, someone who sees the light and isn't randomly spouting feminazi propaganda in a feeble attempt to get laid. I totally agree with you, video games are one of the last things that are male-dominated, and I'll admit, I like it that way.

The reason all these feminists are bitching about how "sexist" and "misogynistic" video games are, is because this is what's getting more attention these days. If something else was in the media day in and day out, they would leave us alone. They just move on from fad to fad, and video games happens to be the most recent one. Sadly, though, with everyone apparently on their side, it seems as if video games are going to start changing, and for what? They're gonna leave the games industry in disrepair because they wanted games catered specifically to them for one or two years. By then, no one's gonna want to play games anymore, because feminists were bitching every step of the way.

I just hope people who are truly passionate about games holds on and waits for this feminist cancer to pass us by, hopefully by then, they haven't done too much damage to the industry.


I think you're both way off the mark here. Video games are no longer male dominated. That mentality has to end. Its gone beyond the basement.

What's with the "basement" comments? Guys have always played games in their bedroom and living room too.

Games are now being made for everyone.

Games have always been made for everyone. However, on average guys have been more interested in gaming than girls, although obviously girls do play games too and always have.

It is something gamers have to come to terms with.

Nobody needs to come to terms with anything. It's the opposite, most guys love girls who plays games. 

 

That's just a dirty word blokes on the internet like to throw around like mud. (feminism)

Perhaps there are reasons for that. Everything associated with feminism isn't always positive and it deserves criticism and scrutiny.

A lot of female gamers wouldn't consider themselves feminists. A lot of them just want to invest in female characters that aren't scantily clad sex objects. 

Sounds good, I'd like more realistic female characters as well, like Elena from Uncharted for example. 

Not only is wanting gaming to be "male-dominated" weird its also extremely male chauvinistic and essentially sexist. I'm calling that out to you as a bloke. If you think this is going to go away, I think you need to get out of the basement and realise gaming is expanding. Its not just for the lads anymore.

I could be wrong but I think Missacre is a woman. And you aren't helping your cause by throwing "basement" in there again. You have a low opinion of gamers because they're male huh? Are you sexist or something? Gaming has never been "just for the lads". Women have had decades to get into game programming and design, but they, IN GENERAL, haven't been as interested as men. 

This article is about a tasteless and gross statue. It's one example among many of tasteless and gross things in gaming. The difference is that this one gets attention because it's about women. I don't even like this stupid statue. The double standard that violence against women is reprehensible and violence against men is entertainment, is becoming too much of a pink elephant in the room to ignore.

Edited by Sooty

The most annoying thing about the statue is all of this "outrage" is giving attention to the spin-off to a janky POS game.

Well, that and it's fucking dumb, but what seems even more dumb is giving it so much attention. The statue is still coming out by the looks of it, so you've not exactly accomplished anything.

and the worst thing is I am quite confident nothing would have been said if the statue didn't have tits. That's the most disturbing thing here.

Posted by AlexanderSheen

@Sooty said:

The most annoying thing about the statue is all of this "outrage" is giving attention to the spin-off to a janky POS game.

Well, that and it's fucking dumb, but what seems even more dumb is giving it so much attention. The statue is still coming out by the looks of it, so you've not exactly accomplished anything.

and the worst thing is I am quite confident nothing would have been said if the statue didn't have tits. That's the most disturbing thing here.

Remember that trailer the first game got and the buzz that came with it? Those guys at the Deep Silver PR team are maybe unscrupulous but smart. Considering the attention around sexism in the video game industry, it would not surprise me if this was the intent all along. Just looking at how much people talk about that stupid statue and the title of this article with the name "Dead Island Riptide" in it, I think Deep Silver achieved what it wanted, advertisment.

Online
Posted by Fat_Magnum

Aww hell yeah check dat sexy torso. /sarcasmoff

What the fuck am I supposed to think of this kind of shit(the entire torso ordeal, not Klepek's write up) ? Seriously, I'm not sure what the desired outcome was. When I first read about it my thoughts were that the PR people involved with this were likely the technical definition of intellectually challenged. Nothing more to be said, really.

Posted by removesstains

Way to reinforce stereo types by continuing to give this bullshit attention patrick.

Posted by StrikeALight

I just don't care enough. And I honestly don't know why there's so much moral outrage surrounding the marketing exploits of an infantile video game.

Posted by DefaultProphet

@Brodehouse said:

@JoeShadows said:

@Brodehouse: So, your argument is that people who don't have direct experience with something are just as qualified to speak on it as people who do have direct experience with it, because they can deduce everything that's relevant from pure logic? It's good to know that Aristotlean philosophy is alive and well- tell me, how many platonic solids make up the spheres of the heavens these days?

The 'direct experience' thing is an appeal to authority, rather than an examination of the actual argument made. If the argument made is ignorant, you should be able to point it out within the argument itself, rather than make an appeal to authority and ignore the argument altogether.

And your Greek reference is just a red herring.

This isn't high level stuff here, this is the core things you would learn in a basic course on logic. And I think anyone who marks off logic as being the principal factor of the objective quality of an argument has abandoned reason and rationality.

There is nothing worse in a discussion than an ex-high school debate team member.

Posted by Brodehouse

@DefaultProphet said:

@Brodehouse said:

@JoeShadows said:

@Brodehouse: So, your argument is that people who don't have direct experience with something are just as qualified to speak on it as people who do have direct experience with it, because they can deduce everything that's relevant from pure logic? It's good to know that Aristotlean philosophy is alive and well- tell me, how many platonic solids make up the spheres of the heavens these days?

The 'direct experience' thing is an appeal to authority, rather than an examination of the actual argument made. If the argument made is ignorant, you should be able to point it out within the argument itself, rather than make an appeal to authority and ignore the argument altogether.

And your Greek reference is just a red herring.

This isn't high level stuff here, this is the core things you would learn in a basic course on logic. And I think anyone who marks off logic as being the principal factor of the objective quality of an argument has abandoned reason and rationality.

There is nothing worse in a discussion than an ex-high school debate team member.

And that's a personal attack.

Posted by TrevorCCW

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

Posted by DefaultProphet

@Brodehouse said:

@DefaultProphet said:

@Brodehouse said:

@JoeShadows said:

@Brodehouse: So, your argument is that people who don't have direct experience with something are just as qualified to speak on it as people who do have direct experience with it, because they can deduce everything that's relevant from pure logic? It's good to know that Aristotlean philosophy is alive and well- tell me, how many platonic solids make up the spheres of the heavens these days?

The 'direct experience' thing is an appeal to authority, rather than an examination of the actual argument made. If the argument made is ignorant, you should be able to point it out within the argument itself, rather than make an appeal to authority and ignore the argument altogether.

And your Greek reference is just a red herring.

This isn't high level stuff here, this is the core things you would learn in a basic course on logic. And I think anyone who marks off logic as being the principal factor of the objective quality of an argument has abandoned reason and rationality.

There is nothing worse in a discussion than an ex-high school debate team member.

And that's a personal attack.

.....Well played

Posted by CarlosTheDwarf

@JasonR86 said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor...

Oh God I would love to see the forums after that. They would fucking lose their shit.

Not if she actually wrote about gaming instead of freshman-level feminism LiveJournal posts. I'd love to see a decent, mature female member on the team instead of Patrick's insufferable adolescent political soapboxing. I suspect most would agree with me.

Posted by Gildermershina

Game marketed to young men with a comically busty limbless, headless female torso. That is sexist. I mean, it's not sexist in a meaningful way, it's just casually "oh, yeah, whatever, it's a dumb video game thing" kind of way. It's just an exaggerated version of the everyday kind of misogynistic shit that just seems to permeate video-game marketing. This should be offensive to everyone, because of how fucking dumb Deep Silver thinks its audience is. And I don't know, maybe they're right, and a significant portion of their audience is that dumb. But those of us who are not should just sit back and be okay with this dumb shit, we should tell these people "no, this is dumb, and it makes you look bad, and it makes all of us look bad." This is the reason I don't like to be labelled a "gamer", because of shit like this.

I don't think this is a huge issue, but it's an interesting one. At this point I'm really more interested in how video games relate to contemporary culture at large, than actually playing the latest Call of Duty or Halo or Gears or whatever else.

In some ways however, I wish this article had some male perspective, because I'm getting a little bit weary of the whole plethora of women-in-gaming issues being treated as "quick, go find some women and see what they think!" I think prominent industry women shouldn't have to be trotted out to speak on behalf of all women everywhere every time dumb shit like this happens. They should be part of the conversation, probably the greater part, but the issue affects the perception of all gamers.

Posted by Moe_DeLawn

One commenter motioned the view point of men which I think is poignant. Another has indicated their distaste for Patrick which is quite frankly ridiculous. i think we need to internalize that there are business people who say yes and great sales people who build a yes in front of marketing teams with terrible ideas. Bottom line on this issue is as follows:

Exec:"What if it causes feminist reaction?"

Marketing/Sales guy: "Then the internet will react and we will get free advertising"

Exec: "Oh. Then do it."

Marketing/Sales guy:"OK!"

-two months later-

Exec: "I just got a phone call from some website about this..."

Marketing/Sales Guy: "It worked!! Also, i saved your money in advertising fees."

Exec: "wait... who is reactiong?"

Marketing/Sales Guy:"Women... mostly"

Exec:"Women don't play games!! I've seen the demographics..."

Marketing/Sales Guy: "Well.. women do play games."

Exec:"I get that... do we have bikini clad women and zombies in this game?"

Marketing/Sales Guy:"Yes."

Exec:"... why didn't they react to that?"

Posted by NMC2008

@Moe_DeLawn said:

One commenter motioned the view point of men which I think is poignant. Another has indicated their distaste for Patrick which is quite frankly ridiculous. i think we need to internalize that there are business people who say yes and great sales people who build a yes in front of marketing teams with terrible ideas. Bottom line on this issue is as follows:

Exec:"What if it causes feminist reaction?"

Marketing/Sales guy: "Then the internet will react and we will get free advertising"

Exec: "Oh. Then do it."

Marketing/Sales guy:"OK!"

-two months later-

Exec: "I just got a phone call from some website about this..."

Marketing/Sales Guy: "It worked!! Also, i saved your money in advertising fees."

Fixed for accuracy.

Posted by bko

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posted by skooks

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

/thread.

Posted by Krullban

@bko said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posts like this just piss me off. None of the posts here even suggest shit like this.

Fuck off.

Posted by ptys

@Krullban said:

@bko said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posts like this just piss me off. None of the posts here even suggest shit like this.

Fuck off.

Haha, I thought it was quite funny, made me chuckle ; )

Posted by FoolishChaos

For me the statue was less "ew blatant boobs" and more "what the FUCK its a horrifically mutilated corpse why would anyone in their right mind want this."

But I guess that's the state of things

Posted by JoshyLee

@Krullban said:

@bko said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posts like this just piss me off. None of the posts here even suggest shit like this.

Fuck off.

Why? Just because it takes an issue and reduces it down to ridiculous extremes so that anyone with an opinion different than theirs looks like a woman hating misogynist? That's how lazy people win arguments.

Posted by AkihikoSenpai

Do you not realise that this fabricated 'misogyny' breeds nothing but animosity? Giant Bomb is not your blog and you are the only thing holding me back from a premium membership. I love this site and this is not what I want it to turn into, this is merely a polite request.

Edited by Gordy

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

This needs to be reposted again and again.

Posted by BRNK

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

Indeed.

Posted by Missacre

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

"As gamers, " Stopped reading right there.

Posted by drgrumbles

Who the fuck cares?

Posted by Captainlunchbox

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised that something like this would come from the creators of Dead Island. Just a couple years back, they gave us a surprisingly emotional look at their game, only to give us an end product that was completely misrepresented. So here they are again, apparently... attempting to get that necrophiliac dollar. I don't think it was purposefully misogynistic, just really, really fucking stupid-and yet another round of ammo against people who play videogames as a hobby. That last part is something that I think Patrick attempts to point out, not in a sort of "THIS SHIT MAKES US ALL LOOK BAD" kind of way but rather "Don't be this" example.

Does it get too much attention from him? Who is really to say? I'm a paying member, and I, for one, am glad to see some conscientious pieces done every now and again. The people who complain about it are probably just really fucking uncomfortable or ashamed. Whatever. Find another site.

Posted by NMC2008

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

My reaction to this post, i'm sorry but I disagree completely. I will take my leave from this thread as it is too much for me.

Posted by Missacre

@Captainlunchbox said:

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised that something like this would come from the creators of Dead Island. Just a couple years back, they gave us a surprisingly emotional look at their game, only to give us an end product that was completely misrepresented. So here they are again, apparently... attempting to get that necrophiliac dollar. I don't think it was purposefully misogynistic, just really, really fucking stupid-and yet another round of ammo against people who play videogames as a hobby. That last part is something that I think Patrick attempts to point out, not in a sort of "THIS SHIT MAKES US ALL LOOK BAD" kind of way but rather "Don't be this" example.

Does it get too much attention from him? Who is really to say? I'm a paying member, and I, for one, am glad to see some conscientious pieces done every now and again. The people who complain about it are probably just really fucking uncomfortable or ashamed. Whatever. Find another site.

You see, the thing is, I'm not uncomfortable of ashamed. I'm actually pissed off at the white knight brigade coming to bring down the patriarchy in favor of a feminist-run world. Also, I think I'll stay here. I happen to like this site, and my view of things is as valid as yours.

Posted by Ravenlight

Okay, I've been away from the internet for a solid twelve hours. Have we figured out a solution to this thing yet?

Posted by BawlZINmotion

I'm a guy so I apparently don't know any better, but Saints' Row 3 is a lot more offensive to women than this. However I'm not offended, in either case. Life is too short and I have too many other things of concern to worry about a piece of crappy plastic likely made in China.

Now I got two groups pissed at me, yes!

Posted by Missacre

@BawlZINmotion said:

I'm a guy so I apparently don't know any better, but Saints' Row 3 is a lot more offensive to women than this. However I'm not offended, in either case. Life is too short and I have too many other things of concern to worry about a piece of crappy plastic likely made in China.

Now I got two groups pissed at me, yes!

Not even, dude. I agree with you on this. Also, SR3 wasn't offensive, at least not to me. It was lots of fun. People just need to stop worrying about everything. I swear, they see a naked tit and they scream SEXIST PIGS. It does make me sad.

Posted by BawlZINmotion

@Missacre said:

@BawlZINmotion said:

I'm a guy so I apparently don't know any better, but Saints' Row 3 is a lot more offensive to women than this. However I'm not offended, in either case. Life is too short and I have too many other things of concern to worry about a piece of crappy plastic likely made in China.

Now I got two groups pissed at me, yes!

Not even, dude. I agree with you on this. Also, SR3 wasn't offensive, at least not to me. It was lots of fun. People just need to stop worrying about everything. I swear, they see a naked tit and they scream SEXIST PIGS. It does make me sad.

Oh I don't think SR3 is offensive, not in the least. I think with my head.... oh forget it, no one else would understand. I'm just comparing it to the distaste expressed for the "bust" featured in this article. The level SR3 goes to is far beyond this, but I don't recall the same level of "opinion" leveled when it released.

Edited by hinderk

After reading some of the comments in this thread, I think I'm officially going to lump people who are complaining about "feminist propaganda" with people who complain about the "homosexual agenda".

Posted by DiGiTaL_SiN

Leigh Alexander is Anonymous.

Posted by LiquidS

@DiGiTaL_SiN said:

Leigh Alexander is Anonymous.

We are all Anonymous. Sex bad, Violence Ok.

Edited by Krullban

So far I've gone through a little bit of this topic, and here's the stats I've got written down so far.

194 posts that are in no possible way sexist, and state in a perfectly respectable manner as to how they think this statue is not sexist.

14 posts that could actually legitimately considered to be coming from sexists.

97 posts that are in no possible way offensive, and state in a perfectly respectable manner as to how they think this statue is sexist.

397 posts saying nothing but "everybody who doesn't look at this and automatically think this is sexist is a misogynistic asshole who deserves to die, and is the most sexist "boy" pig on the planet." and how everybody posting is the scum of the earth, and rather than respectably stating their opinion on the matter, just bash and insult everybody in the topic.

There's something off here. I must investigate.

Posted by FancySoapsMan

@BawlZINmotion: it's funny, I remember I was kind of perplexed as to why SR3 didn't generate any controversy regarding its treatment of women when it was still new.

That year there was a thread full of people who were mad that Bioware decided to put femshep as the reverse cover of Mass Effect 3, but apparently nobody thought it was important to discuss the fact that there is a mission in SR3 where you can kidnap a bunch of prostitutes and make them work for your orgnanization.

lolpeoplelol

Online
Posted by Akyho

@Krullban: Answere. The mods deleted all the truley horrible comments. I know they did since the first 4 pages quickly filled with

abuse towards Patrick and Women. A good number was very harsh. The mods have cleaned up those posts. Deleting them and suspending or banning accounts.

The level of discussion is the highest you will get with mods. Without mods its a hell hole.

Posted by MURDERSMASH

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

We have a winner. Thank you.

Posted by jmic75

For the most part I thought the opinions by the authors were fair. I do take issue with:

Ms. Meadows arguing that women who would have no intention to buy this special edition anyway should complain about it so that it doesn't get sold. To me this thinking is on par with vegetarians yelling that meat is murder or Peta folks yelling that fur is murder. These tactics are basically designed to bully people into doing something you want them to do. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it, you've spoken with your dollars and if enough people agree with you, they'll never do something like this again because it'll cost them money. Having a small vocal minority imposing their will onto everyone else is not something I can support. As to her boob job comment, classical sculptures were also stylised to reflect the notion of female beauty at the time, and gravity was also a lot weaker back then as well.

Ms. DeLoria's whole rant was just irrelevant sensationalism. Most people clearly understand the difference between real murder and a dumb zombie torso. To make the insinuation that this statue encourages people to think of violent murder and sex as being intertwined is taking a bit of a leap.

Ms. Hunter takes the odd (in my opinion) stance that the statue looks too much like dead meat, which kinda seemed like the point. She would have preferred a statue like the venus di milo, however wouldn't making a statue more realistic or in a more visually pleasing position work more towards the objectification of women that she is against? Men who objectify women don't actually see them as chunks of meat, they view them as attractive-sexual objects who solely exist to full fill their needs. I am in no way saying that this statue actively works against this objectification in men, but I seriously doubt it encourages in, and making the statue look like anything other than a chunk of meat (something not sexual for most normal people) would have made it worse. Making an inanimate object sexy does not foster the gender relation ideas of men having dominance over women who exist only as sexual objects, as no social interaction is depicted. If you wanted to argue that pornography or even older James Bond movies encouraged objectification I'd agree with you because they show relations where women are being submissive and usually only appear for sex with men.

Ms. Cooke's assertion that the statue is sexist because of the proportions doesn't really hold water. How is creating a statue with idealised proportions sexist? It makes no value statements about a woman's worth as being lower than a man's nor does it suggest any sort of gender stereotype. You may not like the mainstream's view of what idealised beauty is and the unrealistic depiction of a woman's body definitely contributes to poor body image for a lot of girls and women, however it is not sexist.

As to the complains that not showing damage on the breasts makes it worse, they could have shown tears on the bathing suit to show exposed breasts which would have been way worse, and had they showed a chunk out of the breasts tissue, as dumb as it is, I'm sure that would have violated some indecency law about showing "exposed" breasts.

The statue is a dumb juvenile object but on it's own, it is not sexist, it is not chauvinistic, it does not promote violence against women. It should not be banned, it'll flop on it's own. I take no issue with articles like this showing up on Giantbomb, but really the most sexist things about this whole thing was Patrick saying that the torso crossed a line because it was a woman (implying there is a difference between the genders when it comes down to the appropriateness of dismembered torsos) and then only getting the opinions of women in the industry. Stuff like this affects men as well as women. I would however like to get opinions from people in the games industry proper, rather than from games writers who will tend to lean towards the more sensationalistic responses and who will cover these subjects on their own sites anyway.

Edited by Paindamnation

@jmic75 said:

For the most part I thought the opinions by the authors were fair. I do take issue with:

Ms. Meadows arguing that women who would have no intention to buy this special edition anyway should complain about it so that it doesn't get sold. To me this thinking is on par with vegetarians yelling that meat is murder or Peta folks yelling that fur is murder. These tactics are basically designed to bully people into doing something you want them to do. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it, you've spoken with your dollars and if enough people agree with you, they'll never do something like this again because it'll cost them money. Having a small vocal minority imposing their will onto everyone else is not something I can support. As to her boob job comment, classical sculptures were also stylised to reflect the notion of female beauty at the time, and gravity was also a lot weaker back then as well.

Ms. DeLoria's whole rant was just irrelevant sensationalism. Most people clearly understand the difference between real murder and a dumb zombie torso. To make the insinuation that this statue encourages people to think of violent murder and sex as being intertwined is taking a bit of a leap.

Ms. Hunter takes the odd (in my opinion) stance that the statue looks too much like dead meat, which kinda seemed like the point. She would have preferred a statue like the venus di milo, however wouldn't making a statue more realistic or in a more visually pleasing position work more towards the objectification of women that she is against? Men who objectify women don't actually see them as chunks of meat, they view them as attractive-sexual objects who solely exist to full fill their needs. I am in no way saying that this statue actively works against this objectification in men, but I seriously doubt it encourages in, and making the statue look like anything other than a chunk of meat (something not sexual for most normal people) would have made it worse. Making an inanimate object sexy does not foster the gender relation ideas of men having dominance over women who exist only as sexual objects, as no social interaction is depicted. If you wanted to argue that pornography or even older James Bond movies encouraged objectification I'd agree with you because they show relations where women are being submissive and usually only appear for sex with men.

Ms. Cooke's assertion that the statue is sexist because of the proportions doesn't really hold water. How is creating a statue with idealised proportions sexist? It makes no value statements about a woman's worth as being lower than a man's nor does it suggest any sort of gender stereotype. You may not like the mainstream's view of what idealised beauty is and the unrealistic depiction of a woman's body definitely contributes to poor body image for a lot of girls and women, however it is not sexist.

As to the complains that not showing damage on the breasts makes it worse, they could have shown tears on the bathing suit to show exposed breasts which would have been way worse, and had they showed a chunk out of the breasts tissue, as dumb as it is, I'm sure that would have violated some indecency law about showing "exposed" breasts.

The statue is a dumb juvenile object but on it's own, it is not sexist, it is not chauvinistic, it does not promote violence against women. It should not be banned, it'll flop on it's own. I take no issue with articles like this showing up on Giantbomb, but really the most sexist things about this whole thing was Patrick saying that the torso crossed a line because it was a woman (implying there is a difference between the genders when it comes down to the appropriateness of dismembered torsos) and then only getting the opinions of women in the industry. Stuff like this affects men as well as women. I would however like to get opinions from people in the games industry proper, rather than from games writers who will tend to lean towards the more sensationalistic responses and who will cover these subjects on their own sites anyway.

Damn. This is first comment out of..What..2,000 useless comments, that I like. So thank you.

Also, that little miss Deloria decided to change her picture because she thought her "Cosplay" routine, wasn't appropriate", honestly she had more cleavage showing then the statue. So anything "Sexist" from her side I immediately dismiss.

Posted by Meowshi

@Paindamnation said:

@jmic75 said:

For the most part I thought the opinions by the authors were fair. I do take issue with:

Ms. Meadows arguing that women who would have no intention to buy this special edition anyway should complain about it so that it doesn't get sold. To me this thinking is on par with vegetarians yelling that meat is murder or Peta folks yelling that fur is murder. These tactics are basically designed to bully people into doing something you want them to do. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it, you've spoken with your dollars and if enough people agree with you, they'll never do something like this again because it'll cost them money. Having a small vocal minority imposing their will onto everyone else is not something I can support. As to her boob job comment, classical sculptures were also stylised to reflect the notion of female beauty at the time, and gravity was also a lot weaker back then as well.

Ms. DeLoria's whole rant was just irrelevant sensationalism. Most people clearly understand the difference between real murder and a dumb zombie torso. To make the insinuation that this statue encourages people to think of violent murder and sex as being intertwined is taking a bit of a leap.

Ms. Hunter takes the odd (in my opinion) stance that the statue looks too much like dead meat, which kinda seemed like the point. She would have preferred a statue like the venus di milo, however wouldn't making a statue more realistic or in a more visually pleasing position work more towards the objectification of women that she is against? Men who objectify women don't actually see them as chunks of meat, they view them as attractive-sexual objects who solely exist to full fill their needs. I am in no way saying that this statue actively works against this objectification in men, but I seriously doubt it encourages in, and making the statue look like anything other than a chunk of meat (something not sexual for most normal people) would have made it worse. Making an inanimate object sexy does not foster the gender relation ideas of men having dominance over women who exist only as sexual objects, as no social interaction is depicted. If you wanted to argue that pornography or even older James Bond movies encouraged objectification I'd agree with you because they show relations where women are being submissive and usually only appear for sex with men.

Ms. Cooke's assertion that the statue is sexist because of the proportions doesn't really hold water. How is creating a statue with idealised proportions sexist? It makes no value statements about a woman's worth as being lower than a man's nor does it suggest any sort of gender stereotype. You may not like the mainstream's view of what idealised beauty is and the unrealistic depiction of a woman's body definitely contributes to poor body image for a lot of girls and women, however it is not sexist.

As to the complains that not showing damage on the breasts makes it worse, they could have shown tears on the bathing suit to show exposed breasts which would have been way worse, and had they showed a chunk out of the breasts tissue, as dumb as it is, I'm sure that would have violated some indecency law about showing "exposed" breasts.

The statue is a dumb juvenile object but on it's own, it is not sexist, it is not chauvinistic, it does not promote violence against women. It should not be banned, it'll flop on it's own. I take no issue with articles like this showing up on Giantbomb, but really the most sexist things about this whole thing was Patrick saying that the torso crossed a line because it was a woman (implying there is a difference between the genders when it comes down to the appropriateness of dismembered torsos) and then only getting the opinions of women in the industry. Stuff like this affects men as well as women. I would however like to get opinions from people in the games industry proper, rather than from games writers who will tend to lean towards the more sensationalistic responses and who will cover these subjects on their own sites anyway.

Damn. This is first comment out of..What..2,000 useless comments, that I like. So thank you.

Also, that little miss Deloria decided to change her picture because she thought her "Cosplay" routine, wasn't appropriate", honestly she had more cleavage showing then the statue. So anything "Sexist" from her side I immediately dismiss.

Wait, what?

So women who wear low-cut outfits aren't allowed to express their feelings regarding sexism?

Do you even realize what you're typing when you say it?

Edited by Paindamnation

@Meowshi: No. The fact she originally ranted about "sexism" and "how this is so wrong and degrading" however she was dressing in cosplay in obviously a sexual manner, then "immediately" took it down.Because she said "there's a time and place for cosplay" It's your idiotic replies that continue to keep this page going. So feel free to quote me on that. So continue to defend people who have voices themselfs. I know what I'm typing by the way. I'm going to continue riding the riptide.

edit: Best damn thing said about this whole thing

Anonymous

I didn't feel offended by the Dead Island bikini statue. I did, however, find it quite tiresome"

Should have ended there. Didn't need 2,000 comments "defending women" they have mouths and hands, most likely, maybe robotic ones. They don't need "saviors" of the internet. The statue looks fine. Wanna know the reason why they were gonna sell it? Cause sex sells. I never agreed to it, nor do I dismiss it. Do you see super bowl adds with women wearing conservative clothing? Do you see cheerleaders wearing pants? No. While it is outdated thinking that women are not an audience for gaming, and that when women are seen gaming men swarm like bears to honey, it's a statue. You don't have to buy it, you don't even have to look at it. However, you cannot deny that sex sells. Now prove me right by replying with erroneous comments about women in the industry or how sex doesn't sell, I'll watch my 15 commercial during the basketball game that proves otherwise.

Posted by Scooper

Awful article from an awful writer.

Posted by Plipster

@CarlosTheDwarf said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor...

Oh God I would love to see the forums after that. They would fucking lose their shit.

Not if she actually wrote about gaming instead of freshman-level feminism LiveJournal posts. I'd love to see a decent, mature female member on the team instead of Patrick's insufferable adolescent political soapboxing. I suspect most would agree with me.

Boom.

Posted by NeoZeon

Honestly I could care less about whether or not the thing offends people.

My only real concern is if any made it to a store shelf somewhere, cause if it did and I find it? Well shit, that is easy money to be made off of some controversy-loving sucker.

Posted by Captainlunchbox

@Missacre: "White knight brigade." "Feminist-run world"

See, you're dehumanizing the people affected by stuff like this. No, I'm not talking about the statue, but rather the rampant stupidity. It's really just a lot of men in the industry being totally inconsiderate. It's almost this fratboy mentality and it's kind of embarrassing. It isn't just another internet flamewar. It isn't restricted to a thread or an article. It's very real and it sucks.

Edited by EXTomar

It is kind of typical that instead of engaging in a discussion on something that has to do with sex is to retort with a derogatory sexual put down. It is fine to have the opposite opinion. It isn't fine to just disregard all discussion. It is not fine to reject any discussion as "feminist propaganda" because male or female there is something interesting going on here.

To me the real story here is how this item is a mirror reflecting on the gamer consumer. Someone over there thought this appealed to fans of Dead Island. Why did they think that in the first place?