Epic Games Wins Lawsuit With Silicon Knights [UPDATED]

I wonder how Silicon Knights will recover from this. To think they're the one who invented my beloved Legacy of Kain : Blood Omen. When your studio gets cuts in half and that you can't afford any more current gent games, could you remake Legacy of Kain please? For XBLA and PSN?

In other words they dont know how to use the unreal engine DEV kits. http://udk.com/download

@Grixxel said:

@PandaBear: You do know that those cut-scenes you're bitching about so much were approved by Kojima, right? Nice going.

Oh no, were they?! ... Um so? George Lucas created one of the best movies of all time and managed to fuck it up sometime later. Hate to break it to you, Kojima isn't god and he can make mistakes.

Original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R9vTeYeytI

vs

Twin Snakes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL3Ge4MOIUM

Nintendo ensured all the big nasty words like HELL were cut out. It's stupid watching Snake do a flip off a missile when he can't do it when you're in control. It's a huge leap of logic. And the way Snake talks to Liquid and says to him "See you in hell", he's saying it as if he knows what he is. Snake is self-aware through out the series and taking out small lines like this and adding in "radical kung-fun moves" makes the character less believable.

...but you're right, and I sure hope I haven't offended Kojima!!! /sarcasm

WTF did they feed them on the 29th? $99 seems kinda cheap for 12 people.... Seriously, y'all gotta give people better than McDonald's....

I'm pretty sure I drive past Silicon Knights' office every day on the way to work still. I can also tell you that it is also frequented at that time by a bevy of crackheads.

Here's the street view of the building: http://goo.gl/maps/nxaS

So SK is probably going to go way of 38 Studios, huh?

I would be pissed if I was the clerk.

Shame, I was hoping for Too Human 2.

The court dude should just be able to flash a badge and demand that lunch be freely provided. Court business, MFer.

Really, a $10 tip for a $142 meal? The jury clerk for this case seems like kind of a giant asshole.

I didn't know Too Human was going to be the first part of a trilogy. I understand it's an old game, but I love buying old games. Now, I know I can't play it because the next two won't come out.

Also, it seems weird that this company was suing Epic games just because of the Unreal 3 technology. I hope I understood that correctly.

OT:

@PandaBear said:

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

Uh, when I look up patents, i go to www.google.com/patents .(which offers free access to 7 million patents : free).Is this not as good as going through the patent office, somehow? (or is this a sign that google was willing to pay access fees for every patent?)

... Well, my point is more that it's a shame Dyack said we'd all be amazed at what comes out during the court case. but nobody seems to have bothered to report on whatever came out during the trial. Patrick seemed to be trying to do exactly that. but gave up?

the most detail I've read about the case was back in 2007, via gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14759 . HRUMF.

@PandaBear: TooHuman was NOT a bad game. I fundamentally enjoyed Too Human. Soo. I really don't know what you're saying about FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws. you seem to be saying parts of the gameplay were so bad (unfinished? ill advised? i'm not sure what you mean by flawed). If you were to say Tetris had fundamental gameplay flaws, i'd have to reply "what? i love that game."

Not sure if you mean the much hated Valkyrie death scene animation (which has been explained. an experiment in costing you time instead of making you replay the level). this ill advised gameplay choice is not a problem once you learn how to play (and thus: stop dying all the time).

or maybe you meant the auto camera was flawed. but. I only remember one camera fuck up which interferred with my gameplay. so that's hardly a FUNDAMENTAL flaw. eh.

maybe you mean it was too hard. or didn't explain itself well enough to be easy (same thing?). but. This doesn't ruin the game.

I had more problems with glitches within Eternal Darkness. beasts stuck behind invisible walls, so i couldn't kill them, so I couldn't leave room. confused level design that left me running around corridors repeatedly. but these flaws don't matter, because the rest of the game was so good. TooHuman was almost exactly the same package.

What I want to know is what kind of food was the Jury getting for lunches.

@YummyTreeSap: Yep. The layout of the maps and the boss fights were never designed with the MGS2 mechanics in mind, and it was horribly easy as a result.

Also, there were very few new voice actors in Twin Snakes. Everyone for the most part reprised their roles besides the actors who voiced multiple characters (for instance, the DARPA Chief and Grey Fox) in which case they only voiced one of their characters and another actor was brought in for the other. What probably confused you were Jennifer Hale and Kim Mai Guest losing their accents, which, at least for Mei Ling, made sense. (Mei Ling says she was born in the States, yet had a Chinese accent. Whut?)

@YummyTreeSap said:

@Hailinel said:

As someone that played Twin Snakes before the original version, I don't see how the original is better.

The aforementioned silly, out of place cutscenes surely didn't help, and while they weren't bad, I couldn't help but dislike the new voice actors to some degree. The latter was likely more a nostalgia thing though. But far worse than that was that first-person shooting in a game not designed with it in mind ruined the game. From what I recall of the Vulcan Raven fight, you could just go outside his cone of vision, jump into first-person mode, and pop shots into his head from afar. This isn't how the fight was designed to be fought and this kind of thing, I thought, made Twin Snakes awfully broken.

i agree even though i love twin snakes. it felt so .....easy (?) even on the hardest setting

@Hailinel said:

As someone that played Twin Snakes before the original version, I don't see how the original is better.

The aforementioned silly, out of place cutscenes surely didn't help, and while they weren't bad, I couldn't help but dislike the new voice actors to some degree. The latter was likely more a nostalgia thing though. But far worse than that was that first-person shooting in a game not designed with it in mind ruined the game. From what I recall of the Vulcan Raven fight, you could just go outside his cone of vision, jump into first-person mode, and pop shots into his head from afar. This isn't how the fight was designed to be fought and this kind of thing, I thought, made Twin Snakes awfully broken.

man those guys at SK can't catch a break.

Patrick Klepek, that lunch ticket proves you leave no stone un-turned as a Joumalist, our Country needed you during Iran-Contra! { only you were like ten years old}.

@shodan2020: cheap fucks!

@fox01313 said:

@fustacluck: Need more coffee, somehow got the games done by Silicon Knights mixed with Crystal Dynamics. Agreed with you on Crystal Dynamics getting a good team together for today's games though wondering about how well the new Tomb Raider game will go once it's out.

Thought Crystal Dynamics published it and therefore had the rights. If not, my bad.

@PandaBear said:

@allworkandlowpay said:

@PandaBear said:

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

Over the last decade, you chose to pick out a game that was given rather favorable scores (85% on Metacritic) and only criticize it on something that it actually had no involvement in, the cutscenes. Yeah, Too Human was flawed, and X-men Destiny was pretty much dead on arrival, but those aren't the sole contributions over the last decade. It did make one of the most memorable games of the Gamecube, Eternal Darkness (another game, by the way, which wide acclaim.) It made the excellent Legacy of Kain series, and contributed to a lot of different projects with other devs, including doing a lot of work on Darksiders. It's a shame that Too Human took up so much time and drained so much money from the company, because they could have probably done a lot more, and a lot better in this gen.

The best you could say about Twin Snakes is they remade a classic game. I mean it's not meant to be a dis, but it's not like they can take much credit for putting MGS2 controls in a better version of an already great game. Eternal Darkness is a GameCube launch title, it's well loved, but it's old now... people can't keep going back to that one game. Besides it had both Miyamoto and Iwata involved in it's creation. Legacy of Kain is awesome, it's also old and they made one game in the series. Crystal Dynamics did more for those games than Silicon Knights did. Once again that sounds harsh but if you look at the 2000s they have had one well recieved remake that many fans (that I know of) think is worse than the original (Twin Snakes), one modern classic (Eternal Darkness) and two duds (Too Human and X-Men Destiny). One good game, one great, two duds in 12ish years... Dyack gets a lot of press for being loud but SK doesn't get much for actually making good games.

As for their Darksiders work, who knows what they did? Game isn't theres and for all we know they did technical stuff... I'd wager the overall design of the game had little to do with them and they were more like a contractor. I just think it sucks he gets so much press for being middle of the road... After this set back it could be the end of them.

@Hailinel A lot of fans, myself included, think the cutscenes were just way out of place. Metal Gear is always bizarre, but those cutscenes made everyone look like they were in a kung fu movie from the 70s ... it was so disconnected from the game and the world around it. MGS cutscenes have their problems, but that game made it an absolute farce... that and the fact that MGS2 controls in that game made it a piece of piss.

As someone that played Twin Snakes before the original version, I don't see how the original is better.

Those guys can not get a break. SMH. Oh well, they brought this on themselves.

I'm happy that Epic won this. Silicon Knights are a over rated developer, I'm a big MGS fan and I think Twin Snakes is garbage. Even Kojima tries to pretend that it never happened. MGS plot lines and gameplay can be ridiculous but Snake kicking a rocket back in mid air slow motion Matrix style is just too much. Also never got on with Eternal Darkness, the gameplay was bad despite the interesting things they did with the story. Since then they have brought out 2 games that are awful, won't be surprised if the result of this court case will see them go out of business

@Doctorchimp said:

@Castermhief117 said:

@PenguinDust said:

$251.24 on lunch? That's crazy talk. This is the problem with the American judicial system. As a taxpayer (in another state) I am outraged.

You're taking it out of context. 251.24 for two days worth of lunches and for the whole jury (I don't know the size).

There's a goddamn movie called 12 ANGRY MEN

In this case, 12 ANGRY HUNGRY MEN (maybe that's why they're so angry).

Seriously though, civil cases don't usually require a jury 12 and even when they do there are a number of alternates selected in addition to the dozen. So depending on the case and jurisdiction, the jury could be made up of as few as 8 and as many as 18.

My original post was a bit of sarcasm, but the internet is lousy for that sometimes. It occurs to me that I might have been fallen into a similar trap with this reply.

Trolololol, cop that Dyak. never liked his attitude. He always spoke as if society and gamers needed to change and he knew all the answers, then he proceeded to put of Too Human and some crappy xmen game, all the while whinging about anything thing he could.

Cya mate cant say ill miss you.

xxoo

A $10 tip on almost $150 worth of food?! wtf?

@allworkandlowpay said:

@PandaBear said:

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

Over the last decade, you chose to pick out a game that was given rather favorable scores (85% on Metacritic) and only criticize it on something that it actually had no involvement in, the cutscenes. Yeah, Too Human was flawed, and X-men Destiny was pretty much dead on arrival, but those aren't the sole contributions over the last decade. It did make one of the most memorable games of the Gamecube, Eternal Darkness (another game, by the way, which wide acclaim.) It made the excellent Legacy of Kain series, and contributed to a lot of different projects with other devs, including doing a lot of work on Darksiders. It's a shame that Too Human took up so much time and drained so much money from the company, because they could have probably done a lot more, and a lot better in this gen.

The best you could say about Twin Snakes is they remade a classic game. I mean it's not meant to be a dis, but it's not like they can take much credit for putting MGS2 controls in a better version of an already great game. Eternal Darkness is a GameCube launch title, it's well loved, but it's old now... people can't keep going back to that one game. Besides it had both Miyamoto and Iwata involved in it's creation. Legacy of Kain is awesome, it's also old and they made one game in the series. Crystal Dynamics did more for those games than Silicon Knights did. Once again that sounds harsh but if you look at the 2000s they have had one well recieved remake that many fans (that I know of) think is worse than the original (Twin Snakes), one modern classic (Eternal Darkness) and two duds (Too Human and X-Men Destiny). One good game, one great, two duds in 12ish years... Dyack gets a lot of press for being loud but SK doesn't get much for actually making good games.

As for their Darksiders work, who knows what they did? Game isn't theres and for all we know they did technical stuff... I'd wager the overall design of the game had little to do with them and they were more like a contractor. I just think it sucks he gets so much press for being middle of the road... After this set back it could be the end of them.

@Hailinel A lot of fans, myself included, think the cutscenes were just way out of place. Metal Gear is always bizarre, but those cutscenes made everyone look like they were in a kung fu movie from the 70s ... it was so disconnected from the game and the world around it. MGS cutscenes have their problems, but that game made it an absolute farce... that and the fact that MGS2 controls in that game made it a piece of piss.

So, what did Rein have for dinner? This is sloppy journalism.

Guess he ain't gonna be Dolla Bill Dyack for much longer.

I did jury duty in the UK and all i got was £5 a day and I could only spend that in there cantina.

@PiltdownMan: you played the 4th game?

@BonOrbitz said:

@PiltdownMan said:

I just want Eternal Darkness 2.

I do too, but how do we know that SK would make a good Eternal Darkness 2? A lot has changed in 10 years...

A lot has changed but that game is still the only horror game that has actually made me play through it, the other games of the genre I have played through are the Onimusha series just because I like those, they may have come out before but I'm not sure. I'm not a real survival horror guy but I love slicing up guys as a samurai and I also love lovecraftain melancholy turning into madness...

@PandaBear said:

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

Over the last decade, you chose to pick out a game that was given rather favorable scores (85% on Metacritic) and only criticize it on something that it actually had no involvement in, the cutscenes. Yeah, Too Human was flawed, and X-men Destiny was pretty much dead on arrival, but those aren't the sole contributions over the last decade. It did make one of the most memorable games of the Gamecube, Eternal Darkness (another game, by the way, which wide acclaim.) It made the excellent Legacy of Kain series, and contributed to a lot of different projects with other devs, including doing a lot of work on Darksiders. It's a shame that Too Human took up so much time and drained so much money from the company, because they could have probably done a lot more, and a lot better in this gen.

@runcrash said:

Where I live, in California, the plantiff is responsible for jury costs in a civil case. So Silicon Knights might be on the hook for those lunches.

Look for Denis Dyack on Kickstarter ANY TIME NOW.

lmfao

This is bullshit. When I was on a jury they didn't give me any food.

$99 seems reasonable enough, but $251 for one lunch? The max size of a jury for civil cases is 12, I think, so that's like $21 per, at a minimum (more if the jury is smaller than that). Seems excessive for a single meal. The fuck did they feed them? You could get 12 whole pizzas for less than that.

That's like a negative Kickstarter, only worse.

@Castermhief117 said:

@PenguinDust said:

$251.24 on lunch? That's crazy talk. This is the problem with the American judicial system. As a taxpayer (in another state) I am outraged.

You're taking it out of context. 251.24 for two days worth of lunches and for the whole jury (I don't know the size).

There's a goddamn movie called 12 ANGRY MEN

@PandaBear said:

@Hailinel said:

@PandaBear said:

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

The cutscenes in Twin Snakes were directed and choreographed by a Japanese film director that Hideo Kojima hired and had nothing to do with any creative decisions made by Silicon Knights. Silicon Knights really only did the legwork in coding and developing the game; the project as a whole was really Kojima's.

I know that got come director ... but fuck they were so stupid. The part where Snake does a backflip off a missile was when I knew this was no longer a Metal Gear Solid game. I get that it was Kojima's game and SK did the legwork, but that's the best you can say about them - they did a good (not great) remake of an already great game. So one of the two best games they've made in the past decade or more wasn't even there's. SK get WAY too much press for B-grade developer. It's newsworthy for sure, but when was the last time anyone read "Silicon Knights working a game that looks and plays great and won't be delayed for years and years!"? Dyack needs to put his money where his mouth is and make a good game... right now the company is basically like a one hit wonder band trying to recapture their former glory and blaming their label for their new album being shit...

Given that the series has seen the protagonists (Solid Snake, Raiden, and Big Boss) fight everything from a gas mask-wearing mind-reading psychic, to a supposed vampire, to a guy that shoots bees and another that forces Big Boss to walk across a river of the dead, to a quartet of supermodel mercenaries with severe psychological problems, doing a back flip off of a missile does not really strike me as being particularly ludicrous.

@Hailinel said:

@PandaBear said:

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

The cutscenes in Twin Snakes were directed and choreographed by a Japanese film director that Hideo Kojima hired and had nothing to do with any creative decisions made by Silicon Knights. Silicon Knights really only did the legwork in coding and developing the game; the project as a whole was really Kojima's.

I know that got come director ... but fuck they were so stupid. The part where Snake does a backflip off a missile was when I knew this was no longer a Metal Gear Solid game. I get that it was Kojima's game and SK did the legwork, but that's the best you can say about them - they did a good (not great) remake of an already great game. So one of the two best games they've made in the past decade or more wasn't even there's. SK get WAY too much press for B-grade developer. It's newsworthy for sure, but when was the last time anyone read "Silicon Knights working a game that looks and plays great and won't be delayed for years and years!"? Dyack needs to put his money where his mouth is and make a good game... right now the company is basically like a one hit wonder band trying to recapture their former glory and blaming their label for their new album being shit...

@PandaBear said:

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

The cutscenes in Twin Snakes were directed and choreographed by a Japanese film director that Hideo Kojima hired and had nothing to do with any creative decisions made by Silicon Knights. Silicon Knights really only did the legwork in coding and developing the game; the project as a whole was really Kojima's.

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

I had a feeling it would end this way. Unless Epic Games directly promised a very specific level of support, there wasn't a case for Silicon Knights. It really seems that this lawsuit was just an angry reaction to the fact that Too Human didn't do so well - and that's hardly the engine's fault. There were numerous design and gameplay problems with Too Human that hurt its sales. Valkyries anyone?

Given that other studios seem to make games with the Unreal Engine juuuuuuuuuuuust fine, I find it hard to believe Silicon Knight's claims that the engine was "unworkable". If they had got 5 or 10 other developers to side with them, they might have had a case - but they went alone, claiming that an engine that worked perfectly well for others was somehow magically "unworkable" for them. Maybe they just had bad programmers.

I'm no lawyer, but my arguments for Epic would have consisted of listing out every game using the Unreal engine that released successfully, and then maybe calling SK a bunch of whiners.

I hereby sentence you, Silicon Knights, to pay for sandwiches for Epic Games for the rest of the year.

Hahaha, shut the fuck up, Silicon Knights.

Damnit! I loved SK and Too Human way too much but this is just sad. How they could find in Epic's favor on all counts just... sucks. We'll never see SK really do anything again will we?