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In Case You're Wondering Why There Are No Porsches in Forza 4, it's Because of EA

EA's exclusive license with Porsche will block the brand from appearing in Turn 10's upcoming sim racer.

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EA has had the exclusive rights to the Porsche brand of sports cars for some time now, but that hasn't prevented other developers from sub-licensing Porsche vehicles through EA. Most notably, Turn 10 managed to include 35 different Porsche models in its last simulation racer, Forza Motorsport 3.

Evidently, the days of playing friendly with exclusive licenses are over for EA (yes, I'm aware of the irony of that statement given the whole NFL thing--just go with it, okay?), as according to an interview with creative director Dan Greenwalt up at ForzaMotorsport.net, Turn 10 and Microsoft have made repeated attempts to find an equitable solution to once again sub-license the Porsche brand for its upcoming sequel, Forza Motorsport 4. However, those requests ultimately fell on deaf ears.

For Forza 4, we were looking forward to adding even more Porsche cars, and we were especially looking forward to featuring multiple Porsche experiences in our new Autovista mode. In the end, however, EA couldn’t see their way towards collaborating again. We’ve asked our contacts at EA to reconsider their position frequently and regularly over the last 18 months. We also reached out to various influential people in gaming to lobby on our behalf, and on your behalf, but that was to no avail.

The turnabout in attitude likely has something to do with the introduction of EA's Shift series, which it views as a viable competitor in the simulation racing market. Given that fact, it's not altogether surprising, if still a bit disappointing, that EA would choose to keep its licenses close to its vest, so as to avoid aiding a direct competitor.

Nonetheless, Turn 10 had hoped to work with EA once again, and was disappointed with EA's refusal to acquiesce, especially given Turn 10's own willingness to work with other developers with its own exclusive licenses.

While we respect EA’s need to run their business as they see fit, we’ve regularly collaborated in the past and hope we can find our way back to that approach. Forza had the exclusive license for all Ferrari cars, for example, on the Xbox and PC platforms. But at the end of the day, we’ve always found that we just weren’t willing to block other racing games from having Ferraris outright, as we believed that this would do nothing but hurt the racing ecosystem.

It is most certainly EA's prerogative to do as it pleases with the licenses it holds, but for as much as the Shift series attempts to dig into the sim racing market, it's arguable whether or not that series is really relevant enough at this juncture to claim that collaboration with Turn 10 would harm its stature. Suddenly blocking a developer from including an entire line of vehicles isn't exactly the kind of move that engenders good feelings within the racing game community, either.

Since it looks like there's nothing to be done about this prior to Forza 4's release, players will simply have to make do with a trio of RUF vehicles. RUF, as you may or may not be aware, is the manufacturer known for completely reworking Porsche bodies into custom sports cars. It's likely little consolation for those who had hoped to dig into any of the 35 originally planned Porsche models, but hey, at least it's something.

Alex Navarro on Google+

206 Comments

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FlipperDesert

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Edited By FlipperDesert

I didn't drive them anyway, but this doesn't seem cool at all.

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Xeridae

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Edited By Xeridae

In Case You're Wondering Why There Are No Porsches in Forza 4, it's Because of EA and Porsche 


 
Fixed.
 

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FMinus

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Edited By FMinus

Give me a Zastava Yugo or something instead...

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DuhQbnSiLo

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Edited By DuhQbnSiLo

Man this sucks, but thankfully i'm not a porsche guy anyway.

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Zohar

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Edited By Zohar

Ultimately the Porsche brand belongs to Porsche.  I wouldn't be surprised if EA's hands were tied in this case.

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grimi

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Edited By grimi

Wow this sucks, Porsche is a pretty big brand to omit completely, considering how many cars Forza has. This is another big nock at EA for me. I was really excited for Forza 4 and now i can't get one of the main cars i wanted because i couldn't preorder it at the right place and now i can drive any Porshes.

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chronicsmoke

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Edited By chronicsmoke

EA and its crappy business practices are at it again :(  well atleast I still get to drive my ferraris

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Xsnipd

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Edited By Xsnipd

No 9/11 GT3 for me. (Crying in the corner)

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deactivated-57d3a53d23027

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Not a problem, it's not like it's Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ford or GM.

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spacegandhi

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Edited By spacegandhi

Pfft...whatever.   

  87' Buick Regal all day! 
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Skald

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Edited By Skald

I'm not going to speculate until I hear EA out on this. For all I know, T10 could've been lowballing EA on this one. 
 
I mean, I don't think the inclusion of a certain brand of car is going to change the racing game landscape too much.

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TEAMHOLT

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Edited By TEAMHOLT

@SpaceGandhi said:

Pfft...whatever.
87' Buick Regal all day!

FUCK YEAH!!!!

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tourgen

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Edited By tourgen

trademark laws might need a revision.  It's not like Turn10 wants to make a car and call it a Porsche - that would cause market confusion.  They just want to use the stupid shapes and badge gfx in a Video Game.  No market confusion.  Should be totally up to them (Turn10).

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theanticitizen

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Edited By theanticitizen
@Megasoum While we respect EA’s need to run their business as they see fit, we’ve regularly collaborated in the past and hope we can find our way back to that approach. Forza had the exclusive license for all Ferrari cars, for example, on the Xbox and PC platforms. But at the end of the day, we’ve always found that we just weren’t willing to block other racing games from having Ferraris outright, as we believed that this would do nothing but hurt the racing ecosystem.
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wordfalling

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Edited By wordfalling

Seems to me the only downside to this is being unable to hear Jeremy Clarkson completely slag off Porsche's cars for being consistently ugly for thirty or so years.

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wickedsc3

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Edited By wickedsc3

@extremeradical said:

I'm not going to speculate until I hear EA out on this. For all I know, T10 could've been lowballing EA on this one. I mean, I don't think the inclusion of a certain brand of car is going to change the racing game landscape too much.

I doubt it, Turn 10 has paid for the rights before. I doubt they would all of a sudden low ball them (and risk missing out on the 34 Porsche cars they had in F3), T10 wanted to do even more Porsche cars in F4 so I'm sure they were ready to pay for them. T10 even talk to people inside Porsche to try and get EA to work with them but to no avail. T10 is at least saying what happened, I've heard nothing from EA and probably won't.

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GreggD

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Edited By GreggD

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD: Uh...that's what it is...so yes, that's what I'm calling it. Here, let me help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah

I always thought it was just a multi-person bong. Well, whatever. Not like I need to know the specifics on weed and its tools.

It's not really used for weed. More like tobacco. I suppose some people use it for that in the US, but predominantly, it's been around for centuries, and it's used for tobacco.

I suppose it is different. I've no idea what part of the world you're from, but hookahs are used in the US almost exclusively by stoners. They even featured one in Half Baked, that movie where Dave Chappelle gets into wackey stoner hijinx.

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PrivateIronTFU

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Edited By PrivateIronTFU
@GreggD said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD: Uh...that's what it is...so yes, that's what I'm calling it. Here, let me help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah

I always thought it was just a multi-person bong. Well, whatever. Not like I need to know the specifics on weed and its tools.

It's not really used for weed. More like tobacco. I suppose some people use it for that in the US, but predominantly, it's been around for centuries, and it's used for tobacco.

I suppose it is different. I've no idea what part of the world you're from, but hookahs are used in the US almost exclusively by stoners. They even featured one in Half Baked, that movie where Dave Chappelle gets into wackey stoner hijinx.

I'm from the US. I'm not saying they aren't or can't be used for weed. But even in the US, they're still predominantly used for tobacco.
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Paddles

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Edited By Paddles

Its one thing for these large publishers to ramp up prices, slag off competition, require their own services (at least I can vote with my dollar), but by trying to get ahead of the competition by debilitating them rather than improving your product by a legitimate measure is something else.  
 
It may be a legitimate action on their part but its neither a honourable or considerate one.

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GreggD

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Edited By GreggD

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

@GreggD: Uh...that's what it is...so yes, that's what I'm calling it. Here, let me help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah

I always thought it was just a multi-person bong. Well, whatever. Not like I need to know the specifics on weed and its tools.

It's not really used for weed. More like tobacco. I suppose some people use it for that in the US, but predominantly, it's been around for centuries, and it's used for tobacco.

I suppose it is different. I've no idea what part of the world you're from, but hookahs are used in the US almost exclusively by stoners. They even featured one in Half Baked, that movie where Dave Chappelle gets into wackey stoner hijinx.

I'm from the US. I'm not saying they aren't or can't be used for weed. But even in the US, they're still predominantly used for tobacco.

I would love to see some kind of numbers, to back up this claim. I'm not saying you're a liar, but dude, come on. That's idealistic thinking.

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PXAbstraction

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Edited By PXAbstraction

EA has really been trying hard lately to take the "Biggest Dicks" title back from Activision.

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Krataur

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Edited By Krataur

God dammit, EA, I need my Porsches!  And you had been acting pretty cool lately, too.

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Revenant86

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Edited By Revenant86

This is Almost as bad as the time they bought Exclusive rights to the U.S military

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WiqidBritt

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Edited By WiqidBritt

not that I was interested in buying an EA racing game in the first place, but now I'm extra not gonna get any of the Shift games. Not a huge fan of 911's but, still kinda feels like it would be incomplete with out them.

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Reuben

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Edited By Reuben

I call bullshite

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Minos

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Edited By Minos

EA is a piece of shit..... just like Shift!! 

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Ontheocho

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Edited By Ontheocho

No one man should have all those Porsches.

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slowbird

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Edited By slowbird

The problem with this is that the only Porsches I like are the weird old ones like the 944 and 914, and RUF doesn't make a version of those as far as I know.

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jmrwacko

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Edited By jmrwacko

Wow, thanks EA!

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HadesTimes

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Edited By HadesTimes

So this whole thing sucks. I'm annoyed at both EA and Turn 10. And annoyed that we are actually at this point in licensing. Its just really sad.

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gunharp

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Edited By gunharp

I'm surprised this story is getting so much play on the net. This is pretty much the way it has been for Gran Turismo forever, they have never had a Porsche model. Obviously of course Turn 10 is making a stink about it, wanting to get the word out with the press. I'm going to miss the 914/6 the most in Forza 4, yes even more than the all mighty Porsche 962. Lastly they should have released this news earlier. This game ships in October they knew about this many months ago. Way to sit on it, and now distract from some real reveals. Yo does the 16 player MP work yet? Are you matching GT5's night/weather? lol

@EXCellR8 said:

way too much of this nonsense in racing games. it's the same in GT5 except polyphony said fuck you, modeled the cars, and branded them as "RUF"

Uhm. Not an "FU", its a work around. Also "RUF" is a very respected automobile company and has been around since the 1940's. They are not just some rebrand as others have posted. Their most famous for the Yellow Bird. I'm always surpised that no one has ever had Mathey or any Flying Lizard racing porsches in their games. Well Forza 3 had two Flying Lizard 911 GT3 RSR's which is was rad.

@SaintMits said:

Who the fuck wants a Porsche anyway?

I do.

@Megasoum said:

What Dan Greewalt didn't say in his interview though is that Microsoft holds the Ferrari license and won't share it with EA which is why there is no Ferraris at all in Shift 2. Double standard much?

There was a pretty good amount of Ferrari's in Shift 2. It was Shift 1 where they were only available as DLC and on the Xbox 360 (which was really fucking lame).

@QKT said:

all the porches were exactly the same anyway, never fun to drive.

The hell? I'm not going to argue whether you found a Porsche fun to drive. But You do realize they are not all exactly the same. Using Forza 3's roster as an example there is a big difference between a 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS and oh I don't know a 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo.

@MordeaniisChaos said:

Anyway, I've always kind of hated Porches. Not only are they no where NEAR as sexy as everyone who cares about cars seems to think, they just aren't good cars. Not anymore, anywho. They have been falling further and further behind, with occasionally decent showing here and there.

A sweeping generalization of a car company primarily based on the fact you "kind of hate" them is exactly how that reads. I can't argue over the sexiness with you or how "good" you believe one to be. But how are they falling further behind? And behind what?

@sandwich_adjustment:

Rufs are not kits.

@jasondesante said:

RUF is owned by porsche, its like mazdasport (mazda) or nismo (nissan).

Nope, not the same. They are an independent car company, much like Alpina.

@Maelstrom said:

Sure, Microsoft just bought the exclusive rights to the Ferrari license not because they wanted to deny it to competitors but because they wanted to help the racing ecosystem. Right. I'm calling bullshit. Walk the walk Turn 10 before you start talking the talk with regards to other assholes wielding exclusive rights.

Exactly.

@Brodehouse said:

I can't imagine EA sending out a press release, "we really wanted to make a Warhammer 40k game, but THQ and Relic have exclusivity and won't let us, for shame."

This is why I don't jive with how Turn 10 is handling this. Obviously they have the advantage with the press and non petrol head gamers. They are the favorite. But I'm pretty sure I believe they are the only ones who could get away with making this news. For fucks sake they have Jalopnik in their pocket now.

@TheKing said:

@Devil240Z said:
HAHAHA Suck it Failza!
How pathetically sad.

He's kidding around you know. @Devil240Z: *GT5 race night fist bump*

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selbie

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Edited By selbie

Plenty of other amazing cars to drive. EA can shove it up their Origin-whoring ass.

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positron

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Edited By positron

Fuck EA

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skunkdragon

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Edited By skunkdragon

This is the reason I no longer buy EA products. And why are more people not kicking up a fuss about the fucking EA pass bollox.

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Thor_Molecules

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Edited By Thor_Molecules

Jesus, holding out on Porsches in games like Forza 4 in favor of mediocre racers like NFS:Shift, makes me a sad panda.

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MonkeysDad

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Edited By MonkeysDad

Alex, Sean O'Neal called. He want his "NO" back...

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PJ

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Edited By PJ
@Brodehouse

@PJ said:

@Brodehouse: The sim-racing genre is a bit different. The inclution of licenced cars is a huge part of the experience(since its simulating real-life racing and you can't do that with fake cars) and its not like the gameplay in Forza will suffer by them adding cars.

If licensed cars are a 'huge part of the experience' then it should matter to developers/publishers of sim racing games to acquire those licenses before their competitors do. I'm sure you can criticize EA for not sharing something they paid for, but the games industry isn't a nice little game of hacky-sack, it's a constant competition to provide the best product. EA doesn't have to share their advantages with Microsoft anymore than Turn 10 should share their code with Slightly Mad.

I can't imagine EA sending out a press release, "we really wanted to make a Warhammer 40k game, but THQ and Relic have exclusivity and won't let us, for shame."

You seem to be misunderstanding me. You said that as long as the game is fun and the gameplay is good it doesn't matter if the cars are real or not. I said that's not really the case with sim-racers since real cars are a big part if the game. I never said that EA was wrong in doing this because their not.
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jonnyboy

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Edited By jonnyboy

Way to go EA, because now you can put "NEED FOR SPEED: THE RUN, THE PLACE WHERE PORCHE AND  PARKOUR FANS MEET!" on the box.

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deactivated-5f00787182625

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And at the end of the day PC racing sims like rFactor win again because users create whatever the fuck they want.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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Want to know why all of a sudden there is an focus on negative EA stories?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deviancy_amplification_spiral

Last year, would this story have been picked up by anyone? Games writers have seen the popular opinion shift on them after the EA/Valve drama, and are now adjusting what they qualify as 'news-worthy' in order to stroke their audience. Preaching to the choir serves no real use.

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TheHBK

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Edited By TheHBK
@Megasoum said:

What Dan Greewalt didn't say in his interview though is that Microsoft holds the Ferrari license and won't share it with EA which is why there is no Ferraris at all in Shift 2. Double standard much?

This is why there are no Ferrarris in Shift 2.  EA won't do a little give and take.
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Rongaryen

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Edited By Rongaryen

I'm still only going to buy Forza 4 for my sim-racing fix and I'm still not going to buy Shift.

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Alex_Carrillo

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Edited By Alex_Carrillo

@Kraznor: Racing game philistine!

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Alex_Carrillo

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Edited By Alex_Carrillo

@Maelstrom: That isn't what Dan was saying. He said that they are fair about sharing their exclusive Ferrari license around. That's plainly evident when you consider Gran Turismo 5, Forza's true competitor, has Ferraris in it.

Nobody is saying that EA are being cock-asses because they have the Porsche license. They're being called out for keeping that license from both Polyphony Digital and Turn 10. As if that's what's going to give Shift a true edge over both the Forza and Gran Turismo franchises.

Reading comprehension is key.

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Bouke

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Edited By Bouke

This is really unfortunate, i hope Turn 10 will be able to add some Porches as DLC down the route? But thats a shitty thing to do EA! You don't even have a Shift game coming out this year!  
 
On the bright side; i would rather have Ferrari's over Porches any day! So keep your crummy Porches and i guess no Ferrari's for EA in the future. :P
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wickedsc3

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Edited By wickedsc3

Probably because GT was not willing to pay for the sublicensing.

It wouldn't make much sense to release this news much earlier because they have been trying to get EA to work with them all along, but with only two months to go until release it is time to call it quits on trying to get the cars into the release version, im sure they are still trying to get EA to talk to them and work out a deal, for maybe a DLC Porsche pack.

@Gunharp said:

I'm surprised this story is getting so much play on the net. This is pretty much the way it has been for Gran Turismo forever, they have never had a Porsche model. Obviously of course Turn 10 is making a stink about it, wanting to get the word out with the press. I'm going to miss the 914/6 the most in Forza 4, yes even more than the all mighty Porsche 962. Lastly they should have released this news earlier. This game ships in October they knew about this many months ago. Way to sit on it, and now distract from some real reveals. Yo does the 16 player MP work yet? Are you matching GT5's night/weather? lol

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Alex_Carrillo

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Edited By Alex_Carrillo

@Brodehouse said:

@PJ said:

@Brodehouse: The sim-racing genre is a bit different. The inclution of licenced cars is a huge part of the experience(since its simulating real-life racing and you can't do that with fake cars) and its not like the gameplay in Forza will suffer by them adding cars.

If licensed cars are a 'huge part of the experience' then it should matter to developers/publishers of sim racing games to acquire those licenses before their competitors do. I'm sure you can criticize EA for not sharing something they paid for, but the games industry isn't a nice little game of hacky-sack, it's a constant competition to provide the best product. EA doesn't have to share their advantages with Microsoft anymore than Turn 10 should share their code with Slightly Mad.

I can't imagine EA sending out a press release, "we really wanted to make a Warhammer 40k game, but THQ and Relic have exclusivity and won't let us, for shame."

You do realize that EA has had the Porsche license for well over 10 years, right? Probably long before the XBOX was even a thing.

Also, the issue isn't that Porsche won't give Microsoft the license for free. That's entirely unrealistic. Obviously Microsoft would have to pay a premium for it, and they had with the first 2 games. It's the EA is outright not allowing their cars on any games they view as competitive. It's something Microsoft and Turn 10 don't do with their Ferrari license, as evident with their inclusion in Gran Turismo 5.

It's not about creating the most innovative, great playing product. I mean, have you Shift 2? It's a travesty, and insulting that they'd even call it a simulation. No, this is the NFL license all over again. It's EA taking the easy way out, grabbing exclusive licenses and keeping them for themselves.

The simulation genre is now completely starved of any Porsche cars. They're not in Forza anymore, they've never been in Gran Turismo, they're not in PC sims, and now it seems EA is cutting out the Shift series.

I suggest we stick to arguing about things we at least have some clue about, don't you think?

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MrKlorox

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Edited By MrKlorox

Thanks, Alex. I was ready to come into an article without being angry at something. Good thing I finished reading the title before clicking. Grow up a little.

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shuref00t

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Edited By shuref00t

Virtual Porsches only available to drive from Origin.

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Majkiboy

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Edited By Majkiboy

Can't blame EA for making a business decision, licensing have been the case for a long time. I see no problem.