Kickstarter Console Project Meets $950K Goal In Eight Hours

@TheDudeOfGaming:

You know the Wasteland 2 devs support Ouya and that there's going to be an Android version of Wasteland 2, right?

And yes, Rob is most certainly the man. He needs to go back to The Daily Show or Colbert though.

would'nt it be AMAZING if all the armchair experts on the internet got together with their massive heads and made a console.

Can't wait.

Really looking forward to seeing what indie developers are going to do with this, A lot of people are talking about not being interested in "playing phone games on their TV" But pre-existing "phone games" are just a base, Developers are going to go full bore with this and try to make a name for themselves on an open source system, And that just may give us all a whole new era in console gaming. Right now 4/5 of the "AAA" titles out there are just rehashes of earlier (often better) games. We are going to see a lot of new franchises created. And that's an exciting idea.

It's been to long that game developers have been forced to conform to the standards of large faceless companies controlling everything about their creations, they have had no choice but to accept company "Standards" on every aspect of their games from "acceptable content" to pricing.

Anyway.....

Indie developers looking to make a name for themselves

A cheap way for them to do just that

HUGE selection of new (cheap) games of every possible style

All I know is I will be buying one on launch day

If nothing else this is going to be a memorable time in gaming history...

...even if it fails miserably.

And since I already typed a huge bunch of crap here's a little more.

Once upon a time console games could be made by anyone, It produced a whole era of "underground" games some of them well worth a play through and some.... well, worth a cheap laugh anyway.

Everyone is pissing on this already, but I personally believe competition outs good for the market.

Is*** good.

Also, At last count Ouya has received $3,900,960 of its original $950,000 goal

And there are still 27 days left in the pledge drive.

Support for a low cost developer friendly console is there, The numbers don't lie.

I for one can't wait to see how this plays out.

I love how people start talking about Android and the ignorance just comes pouring out.

Jelly Bean is not a new OS. It's an update to ICS. Anything running ICS will likely get Jelly Bean. The Ouya, when it finally ships, will probably have Jelly Bean, too.

People say "phone games" as if they are inherently different than any other games. Yes, there are games like Angry Birds, but if you think Angry Birds and the fun little puzzle games like it are all there is to mobile gaming, you're just flaunting your own stupidity. Personally, I would love to play Gunman Clive, League of Evil, Great Little War Game and any other number of awesome mobile only games with a controller on my TV. Also, speaking of Angry Birds, Tetris was less complex than AB and that was a 50 dollar game on the NES, but you never heard anyone bitching about how "simple" it is.

This is a console developed for indie developers that is cheap. Period. And I support that 100%.

I find it funny so many people think that this will be phone games on a TV. This is a console that is going to connect to a TV and use a gamepad. You won't be playing games that require a touchscreen. It just so happens that it's built on the Android OS.

@KamasamaK said:

I find it funny so many people think that this will be phone games on a TV. This is a console that is going to connect to a TV and use a gamepad. You won't be playing games that require a touchscreen. It just so happens that it's built on the Android OS.

Well, to be fair the most prominently featured game so far is Cannabalt...

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut: What content? You've been asked three times now.

I have? I guess I didn't read your replies carefully enough since they were the length of paperback novels.

To answer your question, all my apps are white labelled. An agency sub-contract me to build branded games or tools (iOS, Android, Flash and JS/Canvas) for companies they represent but they want their name on the front. Mentioning that I worked on them would be a breach of my contract. They don't want their clients realizing they're being sub-contracting and just go to me directly to build the apps.

So I'm sorry, but you'll just have to take my word on it. I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'd rather not be blackballed by this agency.

@Soviut said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut: What content? You've been asked three times now.

I have? I guess I didn't read your replies carefully enough since they were the length of paperback novels.

To answer your question, all my apps are white labelled. An agency sub-contract me to build branded games or tools (iOS, Android, Flash and JS/Canvas) for companies they represent but they want their name on the front. Mentioning that I worked on them would be a breach of my contract. They don't want their clients realizing they're being sub-contracting and just go to me directly to build the apps.

So I'm sorry, but you'll just have to take my word on it. I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'd rather not be blackballed by this agency.

Are they games?

You must read some really short paperback novels.

See what you've done Sony and Microsoft? You've held out on making new consoles for so long that you've driven people to absolute madness. The sort of madness that allows one to look at a console with smartphone guts and consider it a good idea, or even a revolutionary one. The sort that makes them spend over $4 million dollars collectively to ensure its existence.

People say the Ouya will be an indie paradise where you'll be free of the tyranny of big successful publishers and consoles, but what happens if this becomes successful? XBLA was once supposed to be a promised land for independent development, but the big publishers saw the opportunity and started making their own small games with resources and established IPs that the indies couldn't match. The most successful indies managed to stick around, but everybody else was shoved off to the indie games ghetto, where they continued making rip offs of Minecraft for the rest of eternity.

@mtcantor: No doubt there will be plenty of those kinds of games. I was more referring to the people talking about compatibility with the existing Android phone games.

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut: What content? You've been asked three times now.

I have? I guess I didn't read your replies carefully enough since they were the length of paperback novels.

To answer your question, all my apps are white labelled. An agency sub-contract me to build branded games or tools (iOS, Android, Flash and JS/Canvas) for companies they represent but they want their name on the front. Mentioning that I worked on them would be a breach of my contract. They don't want their clients realizing they're being sub-contracting and just go to me directly to build the apps.

So I'm sorry, but you'll just have to take my word on it. I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'd rather not be blackballed by this agency.

Are they games?

You must read some really short paperback novels.

Some are games, some are apps. They tend to be related to various campaigns, though some are related to long running products.

And I don't really "read" anymore ;) I spend most of my days looking at text; Either code or documentation. So Instead I let Audible read to me while I run errands.

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

@Soviut said:

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

The innovation people are talking about has nothing to do with the system specs - It's being able to bring one person's creative idea and execution to market without having to jump through console manufacturers hoops, being forced to meet milestones or have necessary, do-or-die bonuses for developers based on the metacritic score of the finished product.

Without all of those things that dominate a game's development, developers can actually do something that interests them. In the post Gears of War console landscape, how many thousands of developers have worked on making gamers stick to the back of a collapsed stone column and poke their heads out every few seconds to try and get a headshot? Do they do it because that's their dream game? Probably not - They're probably doing it because their publishers only want to buy the rights to safe bets at retail.

Here's an interesting article from an interview with the developer of Retro City Rampage: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-21-making-an-xbla-game-the-inside-story-article

Excerpt:

Retro City Rampage was first announced as a WiiWare game. Then, all of a sudden, it was delayed on Wii and coming to Xbox first. Money hats, the Nintendo faithful claimed.

"I got a lot of flaming and hate and trolling from when I announced it was delayed on the Wii because it's coming to Xbox first," Provinciano tells Eurogamer. "Everyone thinks I got this big, huge chunk of money from Microsoft. I didn't. I'm poor and I've got nothing. They haven't given me anything."

So why go with the big M rather than the big N? Put simply, Provinciano had had enough.

"I had been pitching the game, doing documents, vetting all sorts of review stuff for months and months and months," he recalls. "The contract negotiation alone was two months for Xbox, trying to negotiate the nickel and dime of it. It was a really rough process. I'd say a good 85 per cent of developers you talk to have had unpleasant experiences. It's like, stop nickel and diming us. If you just let us make our awesome game it'll be better and it'll make more money for all of us anyway. That's my opinion.

"It's one thing to go through the difficult process of going through the gate and getting your game approved, but once it's approved it's a really rough process of negotiating and trying to get a fair deal for yourself. That's a tough part everyone has to waste time on. In any case, I was talking to a number of other big publishers as well, and some smaller ones. And I was talking with Sony. But it got to a point where I was so drained.

"It was the most unpleasant experience of this whole project. It's like, years and years and years have gone into this and the worst part of it all was doing the contract. I was so drained with it, and so tired. Every day I wanted to finish the game and get the game out the door, but I had to deal with emails and contract negotiation. After all of that time I was like, okay fine, I'm just going to sign it! I just want to get it over with! And so I did."

Your comment about the XBLA standards is correct - Ouya has not indicated how they will approach the submission or curation process for their content. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no system planned, could be that discussing it wasn't a priority in their 3 minute debut to the world.

@Oddy4000 said:

@Soviut said:

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

The innovation people are talking about has nothing to do with the system specs - It's being able to bring one person's creative idea and execution to market without having to jump through console manufacturers hoops, being forced to meet milestones or have necessary, do-or-die bonuses for developers based on the metacritic score of the finished product.

Without all of those things that dominate a game's development, developers can actually do something that interests them. In the post Gears of War console landscape, how many thousands of developers have worked on making gamers stick to the back of a collapsed stone column and poke their heads out every few seconds to try and get a headshot? Do they do it because that's their dream game? Probably not - They're probably doing it because their publishers only want to buy the rights to safe bets at retail.

Here's an interesting article from an interview with the developer of Retro City Rampage: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-21-making-an-xbla-game-the-inside-story-article

Excerpt:

Retro City Rampage was first announced as a WiiWare game. Then, all of a sudden, it was delayed on Wii and coming to Xbox first. Money hats, the Nintendo faithful claimed.

"I got a lot of flaming and hate and trolling from when I announced it was delayed on the Wii because it's coming to Xbox first," Provinciano tells Eurogamer. "Everyone thinks I got this big, huge chunk of money from Microsoft. I didn't. I'm poor and I've got nothing. They haven't given me anything."

So why go with the big M rather than the big N? Put simply, Provinciano had had enough.

"I had been pitching the game, doing documents, vetting all sorts of review stuff for months and months and months," he recalls. "The contract negotiation alone was two months for Xbox, trying to negotiate the nickel and dime of it. It was a really rough process. I'd say a good 85 per cent of developers you talk to have had unpleasant experiences. It's like, stop nickel and diming us. If you just let us make our awesome game it'll be better and it'll make more money for all of us anyway. That's my opinion.

"It's one thing to go through the difficult process of going through the gate and getting your game approved, but once it's approved it's a really rough process of negotiating and trying to get a fair deal for yourself. That's a tough part everyone has to waste time on. In any case, I was talking to a number of other big publishers as well, and some smaller ones. And I was talking with Sony. But it got to a point where I was so drained.

"It was the most unpleasant experience of this whole project. It's like, years and years and years have gone into this and the worst part of it all was doing the contract. I was so drained with it, and so tired. Every day I wanted to finish the game and get the game out the door, but I had to deal with emails and contract negotiation. After all of that time I was like, okay fine, I'm just going to sign it! I just want to get it over with! And so I did."

Your comment about the XBLA standards is correct - Ouya has not indicated how they will approach the submission or curation process for their content. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no system planned, could be that discussing it wasn't a priority in their 3 minute debut to the world.

Developers can already "realize their creative vision" on a multitude of platforms from desktops, to browsers, to mobile devices. Consoles actually represent a relatively small portion of the games market when compared with even just mobile platforms. To put it plainly, people would rather have games they can play on the train than games they can play at home on a TV.

The only reason the current generation of consoles are doing well and have enjoyed such a long lifespan is that they're powerful enough to play Call of Duty while costing significantly less than the equivalent PC to play the same game. While most consoles try to scale the PC down, this attempts to scale mobile up and I think they're going to hit a hard ceiling.

Weekend Confirmed made a good point, why would you release a game on this thing when you can get it on Steam. With their current budget they can't make more than say 180k units by the release date, which is substantially less than the amount of PCs out there capable of running Tegra 3 level games. Why buy an Ouya and start developing for that when you can just start doing shit with many of the free SDKs or coding languages already out for Windows & Mac?

They keep saying it's open and blabla, but so what, all that means is a ton of terrible games will get put up instead of some degree of quality control that Steam has.

$99 XBMC box though? Yeah that's cool. As a gaming machine I think we'll all have forgotten about this by 2014, everybody will have when the next consoles get announced.

I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed when they realise how underpowered a Tegra 3 is compared to an Xbox 360 too. (speaking of which, it's highly likely the 360 will be very close to $99 next year)

I don't know. This whole thing seems like history repeating itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissing on the Ouya. This is just the first thing that came to mind when I found out what the Ouya was.

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

@Soviut said:

@Oddy4000 said:

@Soviut said:

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

The innovation people are talking about has nothing to do with the system specs - It's being able to bring one person's creative idea and execution to market without having to jump through console manufacturers hoops, being forced to meet milestones or have necessary, do-or-die bonuses for developers based on the metacritic score of the finished product.

Without all of those things that dominate a game's development, developers can actually do something that interests them. In the post Gears of War console landscape, how many thousands of developers have worked on making gamers stick to the back of a collapsed stone column and poke their heads out every few seconds to try and get a headshot? Do they do it because that's their dream game? Probably not - They're probably doing it because their publishers only want to buy the rights to safe bets at retail.

Here's an interesting article from an interview with the developer of Retro City Rampage: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-21-making-an-xbla-game-the-inside-story-article

Excerpt:

Retro City Rampage was first announced as a WiiWare game. Then, all of a sudden, it was delayed on Wii and coming to Xbox first. Money hats, the Nintendo faithful claimed.

"I got a lot of flaming and hate and trolling from when I announced it was delayed on the Wii because it's coming to Xbox first," Provinciano tells Eurogamer. "Everyone thinks I got this big, huge chunk of money from Microsoft. I didn't. I'm poor and I've got nothing. They haven't given me anything."

So why go with the big M rather than the big N? Put simply, Provinciano had had enough.

"I had been pitching the game, doing documents, vetting all sorts of review stuff for months and months and months," he recalls. "The contract negotiation alone was two months for Xbox, trying to negotiate the nickel and dime of it. It was a really rough process. I'd say a good 85 per cent of developers you talk to have had unpleasant experiences. It's like, stop nickel and diming us. If you just let us make our awesome game it'll be better and it'll make more money for all of us anyway. That's my opinion.

"It's one thing to go through the difficult process of going through the gate and getting your game approved, but once it's approved it's a really rough process of negotiating and trying to get a fair deal for yourself. That's a tough part everyone has to waste time on. In any case, I was talking to a number of other big publishers as well, and some smaller ones. And I was talking with Sony. But it got to a point where I was so drained.

"It was the most unpleasant experience of this whole project. It's like, years and years and years have gone into this and the worst part of it all was doing the contract. I was so drained with it, and so tired. Every day I wanted to finish the game and get the game out the door, but I had to deal with emails and contract negotiation. After all of that time I was like, okay fine, I'm just going to sign it! I just want to get it over with! And so I did."

Your comment about the XBLA standards is correct - Ouya has not indicated how they will approach the submission or curation process for their content. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no system planned, could be that discussing it wasn't a priority in their 3 minute debut to the world.

Developers can already "realize their creative vision" on a multitude of platforms from desktops, to browsers, to mobile devices. Consoles actually represent a relatively small portion of the games market when compared with even just mobile platforms. To put it plainly, people would rather have games they can play on the train than games they can play at home on a TV.

The only reason the current generation of consoles are doing well and have enjoyed such a long lifespan is that they're powerful enough to play Call of Duty while costing significantly less than the equivalent PC to play the same game. While most consoles try to scale the PC down, this attempts to scale mobile up and I think they're going to hit a hard ceiling.

You're talking cross purposes yet again and you're avoiding the elements of the discussion you can't argue against He illustrated a particular experience which is that Indies can often struggle being profitable and timely on the major three consoles due to vetting processes, scheduling issues and sometimes expensive developer licenses. This console should enable Indies to avoid almost all of that. Indie developers already have accepted Android and will only be even more happy to have another platform on which to deliver their ideas and franchises, look at how many Android Indie Bundles have already happened with more coming. Why do so many Android games have controller support and why do so many Android device have TV out? Why have Capcom been porting MT Framework to Tegra 3? Competition is why. People who know what they're doing from chipset IHVs, to device IHVs, through to systems and game developers all understand that the entertainment market has room for many, many more tiers than it currently has. This is just another tier. Look at the Dreamcast, for example, it's a console that's well over 10 years old and it's still seeing (sporadic) releases from Indie developers. The same is true for Genesis and the Neo Geo. If those older systems which can be replicated in software still see at least enough demand to enable the sale of new games for them, then there's most certainly room for another platform which will sell its games rather cheaper via electronic means.

Your comments about the ceiling of the platform in terms of performance are pretty irrelevant in the larger scheme of things because this system isn't being made to sell the next big thing in MMOs or FPS games (though both exist in more than a few products on Android), but rather, it's being made to enable smaller developers to get their smaller console games to market without having to go through the rigmarole which the Big 3 consoles will put them through. Games like The Binding of Isaac would be perfectly suited to the OUYA and that's one game which has only been released on PC due to its controversial content and needs direct controls to be able to be enjoyed properly. There are many more examples of similar games which will never see the light of day on iOS or any of the big 3 brands. Those Indie games will find a happy home on OUYA.

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

I gather you don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone. Almost every Tegra Zone game has controller support. Android maketplace is already selling all of these games and Tegra 3 is already well accepted. Beyond that there are games which will run on this device with little to modifcation which aren't Tegra Zone games or won't be exclusive to the OUYA.

I'm kinda excited about the whole OUYA thing, it's got a really fucking dumb name but I can over look that. I mean, who doesn't want to play Angry Birds HDTV edition or Canabalt in their living room?

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

I gather you don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone. Almost every Tegra Zone game has controller support. Android maketplace is already selling all of these games and Tegra 3 is already well accepted. Beyond that there are games which will run on this device with little to modifcation which aren't Tegra Zone games or won't be exclusive to the OUYA.

Yeah there's probably tens of consumers for that already, and saying they have developer backing when it means they might be able to port their games from tablets to console is a bit misleading, because why would they do that, as is saying it's well accepted when it sells about as good as methanol poisoned booze. No, I take that back, I firmly believe the userbase for being poisoned by methanol is bigger.

As I said, Gizmondo would have killed this product if they were both competing on Kickstarter right now.

@Izbaadin_Islamabad: Another thing that really concerns me is how "open" the system is. This sounds good for indie developers because they will theoretically be able to get their games published more easily. It makes me call into question what kind of quality control the system will have, however. Also, there is a whole slew of security concerns that I have about playing a system that is "hacker friendly". Online multi-player could be riddled with cheaters. It will be like Diablo on battle-net or Counter strike before steam or Punk buster, a bunch of filthy cheaters that completely ruin the online experience for people trying to play legitimately.

anyone can make a android machine. why buy this one?

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

I gather you don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone. Almost every Tegra Zone game has controller support. Android maketplace is already selling all of these games and Tegra 3 is already well accepted. Beyond that there are games which will run on this device with little to modifcation which aren't Tegra Zone games or won't be exclusive to the OUYA.

Yeah there's probably tens of consumers for that already, and saying they have developer backing when it means they might be able to port their games from tablets to console is a bit misleading, because why would they do that, as is saying it's well accepted when it sells about as good as methanol poisoned booze. No, I take that back, I firmly believe the userbase for being poisoned by methanol is bigger.

As I said, Gizmondo would have killed this product if they were both competing on Kickstarter right now.

I gather you still don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

I gather you don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone. Almost every Tegra Zone game has controller support. Android maketplace is already selling all of these games and Tegra 3 is already well accepted. Beyond that there are games which will run on this device with little to modifcation which aren't Tegra Zone games or won't be exclusive to the OUYA.

Yeah there's probably tens of consumers for that already, and saying they have developer backing when it means they might be able to port their games from tablets to console is a bit misleading, because why would they do that, as is saying it's well accepted when it sells about as good as methanol poisoned booze. No, I take that back, I firmly believe the userbase for being poisoned by methanol is bigger.

As I said, Gizmondo would have killed this product if they were both competing on Kickstarter right now.

I gather you still don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone.

Your mistake is assuming anyone cares about the tegrazone. Sounds like a really bad calzone-clone.

Unfortunately I have experience with Android as it's been released on our species, spreading like a bad rash. So if you're feeling that itch for anything Android, don't scratch it.

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

I gather you don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone. Almost every Tegra Zone game has controller support. Android maketplace is already selling all of these games and Tegra 3 is already well accepted. Beyond that there are games which will run on this device with little to modifcation which aren't Tegra Zone games or won't be exclusive to the OUYA.

Yeah there's probably tens of consumers for that already, and saying they have developer backing when it means they might be able to port their games from tablets to console is a bit misleading, because why would they do that, as is saying it's well accepted when it sells about as good as methanol poisoned booze. No, I take that back, I firmly believe the userbase for being poisoned by methanol is bigger.

As I said, Gizmondo would have killed this product if they were both competing on Kickstarter right now.

I gather you still don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone.

Your mistake is assuming anyone cares about the tegrazone. Sounds like a really bad calzone-clone.

Unfortunately I have experience with Android as it's been released on our species, spreading like a bad rash. So if you're feeling that itch for anything Android, don't scratch it.

No, actually your mistake is assuming that anyone cares what you think. That I identify your ignorance doesn't mean I care that you are ignorant. Successful, creative and talented people are actually doing things while you stumble through pathetic attempts at trolling.

I reckon the machine would look great just hope they will get some decent games when it launches or the near future.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

Man, Gizmondo would have killed it on Kickstarter if it was proposed there now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@unholyone123:Except that there was userbase no established marketplace or developer backing. OUYA has all three. Almost every game on Tegra Zone supports controller so there's going to be something 30 launch titles and that's without exclusives beyond those tied to the Tegra chipset.

No, OUYA has neither of those.

I gather you don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone. Almost every Tegra Zone game has controller support. Android maketplace is already selling all of these games and Tegra 3 is already well accepted. Beyond that there are games which will run on this device with little to modifcation which aren't Tegra Zone games or won't be exclusive to the OUYA.

Yeah there's probably tens of consumers for that already, and saying they have developer backing when it means they might be able to port their games from tablets to console is a bit misleading, because why would they do that, as is saying it's well accepted when it sells about as good as methanol poisoned booze. No, I take that back, I firmly believe the userbase for being poisoned by methanol is bigger.

As I said, Gizmondo would have killed this product if they were both competing on Kickstarter right now.

I gather you still don't have much exposure to Android and Tegra Zone.

Your mistake is assuming anyone cares about the tegrazone. Sounds like a really bad calzone-clone.

Unfortunately I have experience with Android as it's been released on our species, spreading like a bad rash. So if you're feeling that itch for anything Android, don't scratch it.

No, actually your mistake is assuming that anyone cares what you think. That I identify your ignorance doesn't mean I care that you are ignorant. Successful, creative and talented people are actually doing things while you stumble through pathetic attempts at trolling.

Is the thing they're doing Angry Birds-clones or applications that mine data from my phone or install trojans because the successful and talented people are idiots? Do you believe in Bitcoins and Ron Paul as well?

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut said:

@Oddy4000 said:

@Soviut said:

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

The innovation people are talking about has nothing to do with the system specs - It's being able to bring one person's creative idea and execution to market without having to jump through console manufacturers hoops, being forced to meet milestones or have necessary, do-or-die bonuses for developers based on the metacritic score of the finished product.

Without all of those things that dominate a game's development, developers can actually do something that interests them. In the post Gears of War console landscape, how many thousands of developers have worked on making gamers stick to the back of a collapsed stone column and poke their heads out every few seconds to try and get a headshot? Do they do it because that's their dream game? Probably not - They're probably doing it because their publishers only want to buy the rights to safe bets at retail.

Here's an interesting article from an interview with the developer of Retro City Rampage: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-21-making-an-xbla-game-the-inside-story-article

Excerpt:

Retro City Rampage was first announced as a WiiWare game. Then, all of a sudden, it was delayed on Wii and coming to Xbox first. Money hats, the Nintendo faithful claimed.

"I got a lot of flaming and hate and trolling from when I announced it was delayed on the Wii because it's coming to Xbox first," Provinciano tells Eurogamer. "Everyone thinks I got this big, huge chunk of money from Microsoft. I didn't. I'm poor and I've got nothing. They haven't given me anything."

So why go with the big M rather than the big N? Put simply, Provinciano had had enough.

"I had been pitching the game, doing documents, vetting all sorts of review stuff for months and months and months," he recalls. "The contract negotiation alone was two months for Xbox, trying to negotiate the nickel and dime of it. It was a really rough process. I'd say a good 85 per cent of developers you talk to have had unpleasant experiences. It's like, stop nickel and diming us. If you just let us make our awesome game it'll be better and it'll make more money for all of us anyway. That's my opinion.

"It's one thing to go through the difficult process of going through the gate and getting your game approved, but once it's approved it's a really rough process of negotiating and trying to get a fair deal for yourself. That's a tough part everyone has to waste time on. In any case, I was talking to a number of other big publishers as well, and some smaller ones. And I was talking with Sony. But it got to a point where I was so drained.

"It was the most unpleasant experience of this whole project. It's like, years and years and years have gone into this and the worst part of it all was doing the contract. I was so drained with it, and so tired. Every day I wanted to finish the game and get the game out the door, but I had to deal with emails and contract negotiation. After all of that time I was like, okay fine, I'm just going to sign it! I just want to get it over with! And so I did."

Your comment about the XBLA standards is correct - Ouya has not indicated how they will approach the submission or curation process for their content. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no system planned, could be that discussing it wasn't a priority in their 3 minute debut to the world.

Developers can already "realize their creative vision" on a multitude of platforms from desktops, to browsers, to mobile devices. Consoles actually represent a relatively small portion of the games market when compared with even just mobile platforms. To put it plainly, people would rather have games they can play on the train than games they can play at home on a TV.

The only reason the current generation of consoles are doing well and have enjoyed such a long lifespan is that they're powerful enough to play Call of Duty while costing significantly less than the equivalent PC to play the same game. While most consoles try to scale the PC down, this attempts to scale mobile up and I think they're going to hit a hard ceiling.

You're talking cross purposes yet again and you're avoiding the elements of the discussion you can't argue against He illustrated a particular experience which is that Indies can often struggle being profitable and timely on the major three consoles due to vetting processes, scheduling issues and sometimes expensive developer licenses. This console should enable Indies to avoid almost all of that. Indie developers already have accepted Android and will only be even more happy to have another platform on which to deliver their ideas and franchises, look at how many Android Indie Bundles have already happened with more coming. Why do so many Android games have controller support and why do so many Android device have TV out? Why have Capcom been porting MT Framework to Tegra 3? Competition is why. People who know what they're doing from chipset IHVs, to device IHVs, through to systems and game developers all understand that the entertainment market has room for many, many more tiers than it currently has. This is just another tier. Look at the Dreamcast, for example, it's a console that's well over 10 years old and it's still seeing (sporadic) releases from Indie developers. The same is true for Genesis and the Neo Geo. If those older systems which can be replicated in software still see at least enough demand to enable the sale of new games for them, then there's most certainly room for another platform which will sell its games rather cheaper via electronic means.

Your comments about the ceiling of the platform in terms of performance are pretty irrelevant in the larger scheme of things because this system isn't being made to sell the next big thing in MMOs or FPS games (though both exist in more than a few products on Android), but rather, it's being made to enable smaller developers to get their smaller console games to market without having to go through the rigmarole which the Big 3 consoles will put them through. Games like The Binding of Isaac would be perfectly suited to the OUYA and that's one game which has only been released on PC due to its controversial content and needs direct controls to be able to be enjoyed properly. There are many more examples of similar games which will never see the light of day on iOS or any of the big 3 brands. Those Indie games will find a happy home on OUYA.

I didn't avoid anything.

This doesn't improve gaming in any way unless you consider it being a console to somehow matter. Consoles are NOT the sweetest plum, and this console is basically a tablet with a controller attached to it. You seem to think that "it's a console" is some how the reason people will want to develop for it as well as buy it. You keep thinking that a company porting one of their titles to a mobile device means they'll want to spend even more money porting to a one-off system that requires a completely different control scheme than the touch devices out there already.

Let me reiterate the issues I see as a developer:

• It's a console. Consoles markets are tiny compared to mobile markets. Having a game on a console is not the big success story you think it is.
• The userbase is small and uncertain. It may grow, but not to the level that other consoles have and nowhere CLOSE to the level mobiles have.
• Underpowered. The reason most people want to publish to a console is to take advantage of the system's power, not because they "like consoles".
• No existing content on Android will work with a controller without porting since touch controls and controllers don't match up the same way a keyboard does. This is a huge, expensive undertaking, especially for indie developers. Just because its Android doesn't mean it can play all the Android content.
• Not portable like a phone or tablet. Can't make calls either, so none of the benefits mobiles have when you're not playing games. People are buying cheap games on their phones to use when they're commuting or away, NOT when they're sitting at home in front of their TV.
• I have to hook it up to my stupid TV. The only thing this really offers is "games on your TV" but I can already get those ON my TV without yet another console to plug in.

PS: The Dreamcast killed Sega's hardware division, so I wouldn't exactly be touting that as sign of success for this thing.

@Soviut said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut said:

@Oddy4000 said:

@Soviut said:

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

The innovation people are talking about has nothing to do with the system specs - It's being able to bring one person's creative idea and execution to market without having to jump through console manufacturers hoops, being forced to meet milestones or have necessary, do-or-die bonuses for developers based on the metacritic score of the finished product.

Without all of those things that dominate a game's development, developers can actually do something that interests them. In the post Gears of War console landscape, how many thousands of developers have worked on making gamers stick to the back of a collapsed stone column and poke their heads out every few seconds to try and get a headshot? Do they do it because that's their dream game? Probably not - They're probably doing it because their publishers only want to buy the rights to safe bets at retail.

Here's an interesting article from an interview with the developer of Retro City Rampage: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-21-making-an-xbla-game-the-inside-story-article

Excerpt:

Retro City Rampage was first announced as a WiiWare game. Then, all of a sudden, it was delayed on Wii and coming to Xbox first. Money hats, the Nintendo faithful claimed.

"I got a lot of flaming and hate and trolling from when I announced it was delayed on the Wii because it's coming to Xbox first," Provinciano tells Eurogamer. "Everyone thinks I got this big, huge chunk of money from Microsoft. I didn't. I'm poor and I've got nothing. They haven't given me anything."

So why go with the big M rather than the big N? Put simply, Provinciano had had enough.

"I had been pitching the game, doing documents, vetting all sorts of review stuff for months and months and months," he recalls. "The contract negotiation alone was two months for Xbox, trying to negotiate the nickel and dime of it. It was a really rough process. I'd say a good 85 per cent of developers you talk to have had unpleasant experiences. It's like, stop nickel and diming us. If you just let us make our awesome game it'll be better and it'll make more money for all of us anyway. That's my opinion.

"It's one thing to go through the difficult process of going through the gate and getting your game approved, but once it's approved it's a really rough process of negotiating and trying to get a fair deal for yourself. That's a tough part everyone has to waste time on. In any case, I was talking to a number of other big publishers as well, and some smaller ones. And I was talking with Sony. But it got to a point where I was so drained.

"It was the most unpleasant experience of this whole project. It's like, years and years and years have gone into this and the worst part of it all was doing the contract. I was so drained with it, and so tired. Every day I wanted to finish the game and get the game out the door, but I had to deal with emails and contract negotiation. After all of that time I was like, okay fine, I'm just going to sign it! I just want to get it over with! And so I did."

Your comment about the XBLA standards is correct - Ouya has not indicated how they will approach the submission or curation process for their content. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no system planned, could be that discussing it wasn't a priority in their 3 minute debut to the world.

Developers can already "realize their creative vision" on a multitude of platforms from desktops, to browsers, to mobile devices. Consoles actually represent a relatively small portion of the games market when compared with even just mobile platforms. To put it plainly, people would rather have games they can play on the train than games they can play at home on a TV.

The only reason the current generation of consoles are doing well and have enjoyed such a long lifespan is that they're powerful enough to play Call of Duty while costing significantly less than the equivalent PC to play the same game. While most consoles try to scale the PC down, this attempts to scale mobile up and I think they're going to hit a hard ceiling.

You're talking cross purposes yet again and you're avoiding the elements of the discussion you can't argue against He illustrated a particular experience which is that Indies can often struggle being profitable and timely on the major three consoles due to vetting processes, scheduling issues and sometimes expensive developer licenses. This console should enable Indies to avoid almost all of that. Indie developers already have accepted Android and will only be even more happy to have another platform on which to deliver their ideas and franchises, look at how many Android Indie Bundles have already happened with more coming. Why do so many Android games have controller support and why do so many Android device have TV out? Why have Capcom been porting MT Framework to Tegra 3? Competition is why. People who know what they're doing from chipset IHVs, to device IHVs, through to systems and game developers all understand that the entertainment market has room for many, many more tiers than it currently has. This is just another tier. Look at the Dreamcast, for example, it's a console that's well over 10 years old and it's still seeing (sporadic) releases from Indie developers. The same is true for Genesis and the Neo Geo. If those older systems which can be replicated in software still see at least enough demand to enable the sale of new games for them, then there's most certainly room for another platform which will sell its games rather cheaper via electronic means.

Your comments about the ceiling of the platform in terms of performance are pretty irrelevant in the larger scheme of things because this system isn't being made to sell the next big thing in MMOs or FPS games (though both exist in more than a few products on Android), but rather, it's being made to enable smaller developers to get their smaller console games to market without having to go through the rigmarole which the Big 3 consoles will put them through. Games like The Binding of Isaac would be perfectly suited to the OUYA and that's one game which has only been released on PC due to its controversial content and needs direct controls to be able to be enjoyed properly. There are many more examples of similar games which will never see the light of day on iOS or any of the big 3 brands. Those Indie games will find a happy home on OUYA.

I didn't avoid anything.

This doesn't improve gaming in any way unless you consider it being a console to somehow matter. Consoles are NOT the sweetest plum, and this console is basically a tablet with a controller attached to it. You seem to think that "it's a console" is some how the reason people will want to develop for it as well as buy it. You keep thinking that a company porting one of their titles to a mobile device means they'll want to spend even more money porting to a one-off system that requires a completely different control scheme than the touch devices out there already.

Let me reiterate the issues I see as a developer:

• It's a console. Consoles markets are tiny compared to mobile markets. Having a game on a console is not the big success story you think it is.
• The userbase is small and uncertain. It may grow, but not to the level that other consoles have and nowhere CLOSE to the level mobiles have.
• Underpowered. The reason most people want to publish to a console is to take advantage of the system's power, not because they "like consoles".
• No existing content on Android will work with a controller without porting since touch controls and controllers don't match up the same way a keyboard does. This is a huge, expensive undertaking, especially for indie developers. Just because its Android doesn't mean it can play all the Android content.
• Not portable like a phone or tablet. Can't make calls either, so none of the benefits mobiles have when you're not playing games. People are buying cheap games on their phones to use when they're commuting or away, NOT when they're sitting at home in front of their TV.
• I have to hook it up to my stupid TV. The only thing this really offers is "games on your TV" but I can already get those ON my TV without yet another console to plug in.

PS: The Dreamcast killed Sega's hardware division, so I wouldn't exactly be touting that as sign of success for this thing.

Let's work backwards,OK?

The Dreamcast did not kill SEGA's hardware division. SEGA had crippling debt long before the Dreamcast was released. It's been argued by financial and gaming history experts that the 32X and Saturn back to back releases actually did a lot of damage to SEGA well before they had even started the bidding war between Hitachi, PowerVR and 3Dfx for what would eventually become the Dreamcast. There was also the shrinking arcade market in the US which had declined rapidly after peaking in the early 90s which forced them to close some divisions and reshuffle others and this, once again, happened despite the Dreamcast, not because of it. Lastly, there was a whole US management approach which pissed the Japanese financial people right off, which led to delays in releases and localisations on the in the US, their largest market - Shenmue II is the most famous victim of this, having never had a US release. Yes, SEGA all but closed their doors when the Dreamcast's sales slowed somewhat on the release of the PS2, but it didn't kill SEGA's anything. SEGA shrank SEGA's hardware division. The change in arcade focus killed SEGA's home console division, but the hardware division is still running even today. These days they make Linux and Windows based arcade machines, along with whatever else is trendy in Japan, including some Patchinko machines too. Arguably, SEGA's NAOMI hardware platform is one the longest running in arcades only beaten by the Neo Geo whose parent company also almost went out of business due to mismanagement and arcade market shrinkage.

You need to know more about the market you're trying to pretend you have some expert opinion of. I understand you're still trying for guilt by association, but it's the wrong approach. Even now, as I already stated, there are Dreamcast games being made by small and larger studios - all independent, because the Kalisto development libraries are Open Source. It's certainly a niche market but one that has proven longevity for a console which all but went out of the public eye by 2001, over a decade ago.

Now onto your points (which I'll deal with in non-reverse order).

1. Yes, it's a console, but it's a reasonably cheap Android console with a small, yet professionally developed ready-made library of launch titles. Many people may not have played many of the Tegra 3 (or Tegra 2) 'THD' titles, so this will enable those games to reach new markets. I've never assumed success, but you are assuming failure and that's not rational because there is a clear demand for the product based on the rapid uptake of the Kickstarter. Of course, that is no guarantee of the success of the product on release or the continued success of it afterwards, but it is most certainly a clear measure of it meeting a gap in the market in terms of demand.
2. The userbase for any new system is small. That said, this is an Android system, so even beyond the Tegra Zone THD games which support controllers there are other products including games and emulators which will happily work on the OUYA with no modification at all right from launch day. Beyond that, people are bound to release OUYA specific versions of their games, if only to see how they will sell. If you're a real developer you'll know as well as I do that compiling an APK can even get it pushed straight to Google Play with almost nothing to interrupt the process (this also is part of a normal Android debug process too once you've stepped beyond traces and such). That's why the OUYA is fantastic for Indies aside from the free SDK for Android/Google. You're absolutely lying when you describe a simple process of compiling for a different display output res in Eclipse and pushing an APK to Google Play as a 'huge, expensive undertaking'. Either you're just a jobbing programmer or a really misinformed Android developer OR you're lying to try and make things sound a whole more complicated than they are but in no way is that hugely complicated or expensive. The Tegra 3's Geforce ULP 12 Core GPU is a known quantity and there are already two 1200p Full HD tablets which target resolutions beyond 1080p on the market; the Asus Transformer Pad Infinity TF700 and the Acer A700/A701. Every Tegrazone game runs fine on them at native res, so really, there's almost no barrier for any developer to do the same with their games for OUYA which has the same GPU, same chipset and runs at a slightly lower res of 1080p if used at the maximum native res of an HDTV. Of course controller support is another issue, but as I already explained, many Android games and apps have controller support built and many that don't work with a controller via IME anyway.
3. Underpowered? For who? In what context? You seem to making a lot of assumptions about what people expect out of a $99 Indie targeted home console. Meanwhile, games like Riptide GP, Dead Trigger, Soulcaraft, Shadowgun and quite a few more show that Tegra 3 is quite a capable chipset. Also, check out the video at the end of these points, for fun.
4. See point 2. You know almost nothing about Android and yet you continue to call yourself a developer. Shameful.
5. Not portable? Again, in what context? Can I take my OUYA to my friend's house and plug it into his TV? YES. It's portable in the same way an 360, PS3 or Wii is portable. What a shitty point you've made! People are buying cheap small games for home consoles too, or did the Wii's Virtual Console, PSN and Xbox Live completely pass you by? What another shitty point you've made! Congrats.
6. See above and if your TV is stupid get a smarter one.

This is from 2011, running on an Asus Transformer Prime which uses the Tegra 3.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Soviut said:

@Oddy4000 said:

@Soviut said:

@Coombs said:

@ShatterShock:

XBLA was never a paradise for indie developers, Devs still have to pay through the nose to get on XBLA and have to conform to all of the Standards of XBLA. The XBL Indie platform comes a lot closer by being very low cost for devs, but M$ still has a lot of control over "acceptable content" and the ability to update games.

"Indie paradise" doesn't mean all devs are going to succeed, In fact most of them will fail, And the kind of devs who wasted a ton of their time & money making "Minecraft Rip offs" are just the kind that need to fail. The devs who come up with an innovative concept and execute it well will be the big winners here, Plus all of us gamers who are going to get a ton of new IP to play with.

I wouldn't say that developers need to "pay through the nose" but it certainly costs then in time to market. The XBLA standards are generally a good thing borne out of lessons learned from past releases. Not having games crash, harm the system, break when you plug a Guitar Hero controller in, or give people seizures is not a bad thing.

Exactly how are developers going to be innovative with this platform? It's the same controller that everyone else has had for decades running on hardware that is less powerful the eldest current-generation consoles. Something besides "it's on a TV" has to be there before I'd consider investing in creating exclusive content for this. Until something like that arrives, expect little more than ports.

I know I may come across as negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. There's a lot of shortcomings that the enthusiasts seem to be willing to overlook.

PS: Are people still using the "M$" thing? Didn't they grow out of that in 1999? I mean, Apple is currently making more than Microsoft is so the dollar sign isn't exactly apt.

The innovation people are talking about has nothing to do with the system specs - It's being able to bring one person's creative idea and execution to market without having to jump through console manufacturers hoops, being forced to meet milestones or have necessary, do-or-die bonuses for developers based on the metacritic score of the finished product.

Without all of those things that dominate a game's development, developers can actually do something that interests them. In the post Gears of War console landscape, how many thousands of developers have worked on making gamers stick to the back of a collapsed stone column and poke their heads out every few seconds to try and get a headshot? Do they do it because that's their dream game? Probably not - They're probably doing it because their publishers only want to buy the rights to safe bets at retail.

Here's an interesting article from an interview with the developer of Retro City Rampage: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-21-making-an-xbla-game-the-inside-story-article

Excerpt:

Retro City Rampage was first announced as a WiiWare game. Then, all of a sudden, it was delayed on Wii and coming to Xbox first. Money hats, the Nintendo faithful claimed.

"I got a lot of flaming and hate and trolling from when I announced it was delayed on the Wii because it's coming to Xbox first," Provinciano tells Eurogamer. "Everyone thinks I got this big, huge chunk of money from Microsoft. I didn't. I'm poor and I've got nothing. They haven't given me anything."

So why go with the big M rather than the big N? Put simply, Provinciano had had enough.

"I had been pitching the game, doing documents, vetting all sorts of review stuff for months and months and months," he recalls. "The contract negotiation alone was two months for Xbox, trying to negotiate the nickel and dime of it. It was a really rough process. I'd say a good 85 per cent of developers you talk to have had unpleasant experiences. It's like, stop nickel and diming us. If you just let us make our awesome game it'll be better and it'll make more money for all of us anyway. That's my opinion.

"It's one thing to go through the difficult process of going through the gate and getting your game approved, but once it's approved it's a really rough process of negotiating and trying to get a fair deal for yourself. That's a tough part everyone has to waste time on. In any case, I was talking to a number of other big publishers as well, and some smaller ones. And I was talking with Sony. But it got to a point where I was so drained.

"It was the most unpleasant experience of this whole project. It's like, years and years and years have gone into this and the worst part of it all was doing the contract. I was so drained with it, and so tired. Every day I wanted to finish the game and get the game out the door, but I had to deal with emails and contract negotiation. After all of that time I was like, okay fine, I'm just going to sign it! I just want to get it over with! And so I did."

Your comment about the XBLA standards is correct - Ouya has not indicated how they will approach the submission or curation process for their content. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no system planned, could be that discussing it wasn't a priority in their 3 minute debut to the world.

Developers can already "realize their creative vision" on a multitude of platforms from desktops, to browsers, to mobile devices. Consoles actually represent a relatively small portion of the games market when compared with even just mobile platforms. To put it plainly, people would rather have games they can play on the train than games they can play at home on a TV.

The only reason the current generation of consoles are doing well and have enjoyed such a long lifespan is that they're powerful enough to play Call of Duty while costing significantly less than the equivalent PC to play the same game. While most consoles try to scale the PC down, this attempts to scale mobile up and I think they're going to hit a hard ceiling.

You're talking cross purposes yet again and you're avoiding the elements of the discussion you can't argue against He illustrated a particular experience which is that Indies can often struggle being profitable and timely on the major three consoles due to vetting processes, scheduling issues and sometimes expensive developer licenses. This console should enable Indies to avoid almost all of that. Indie developers already have accepted Android and will only be even more happy to have another platform on which to deliver their ideas and franchises, look at how many Android Indie Bundles have already happened with more coming. Why do so many Android games have controller support and why do so many Android device have TV out? Why have Capcom been porting MT Framework to Tegra 3? Competition is why. People who know what they're doing from chipset IHVs, to device IHVs, through to systems and game developers all understand that the entertainment market has room for many, many more tiers than it currently has. This is just another tier. Look at the Dreamcast, for example, it's a console that's well over 10 years old and it's still seeing (sporadic) releases from Indie developers. The same is true for Genesis and the Neo Geo. If those older systems which can be replicated in software still see at least enough demand to enable the sale of new games for them, then there's most certainly room for another platform which will sell its games rather cheaper via electronic means.

Your comments about the ceiling of the platform in terms of performance are pretty irrelevant in the larger scheme of things because this system isn't being made to sell the next big thing in MMOs or FPS games (though both exist in more than a few products on Android), but rather, it's being made to enable smaller developers to get their smaller console games to market without having to go through the rigmarole which the Big 3 consoles will put them through. Games like The Binding of Isaac would be perfectly suited to the OUYA and that's one game which has only been released on PC due to its controversial content and needs direct controls to be able to be enjoyed properly. There are many more examples of similar games which will never see the light of day on iOS or any of the big 3 brands. Those Indie games will find a happy home on OUYA.

I didn't avoid anything.

This doesn't improve gaming in any way unless you consider it being a console to somehow matter. Consoles are NOT the sweetest plum, and this console is basically a tablet with a controller attached to it. You seem to think that "it's a console" is some how the reason people will want to develop for it as well as buy it. You keep thinking that a company porting one of their titles to a mobile device means they'll want to spend even more money porting to a one-off system that requires a completely different control scheme than the touch devices out there already.

Let me reiterate the issues I see as a developer:

• It's a console. Consoles markets are tiny compared to mobile markets. Having a game on a console is not the big success story you think it is.
• The userbase is small and uncertain. It may grow, but not to the level that other consoles have and nowhere CLOSE to the level mobiles have.
• Underpowered. The reason most people want to publish to a console is to take advantage of the system's power, not because they "like consoles".
• No existing content on Android will work with a controller without porting since touch controls and controllers don't match up the same way a keyboard does. This is a huge, expensive undertaking, especially for indie developers. Just because its Android doesn't mean it can play all the Android content.
• Not portable like a phone or tablet. Can't make calls either, so none of the benefits mobiles have when you're not playing games. People are buying cheap games on their phones to use when they're commuting or away, NOT when they're sitting at home in front of their TV.
• I have to hook it up to my stupid TV. The only thing this really offers is "games on your TV" but I can already get those ON my TV without yet another console to plug in.

PS: The Dreamcast killed Sega's hardware division, so I wouldn't exactly be touting that as sign of success for this thing.

Let's work backwards,OK?

The Dreamcast did not kill SEGA's hardware division. SEGA had crippling debt long before the Dreamcast was released. It's been argued by financial and gaming history experts that the 32X and Saturn back to back releases actually did a lot of damage to SEGA well before they had even started the bidding war between Hitachi, PowerVR and 3Dfx for what would eventually become the Dreamcast. There was also the shrinking arcade market in the US which had declined rapidly after peaking in the early 90s which forced them to close some divisions and reshuffle others and this, once again, happened despite the Dreamcast, not because of it. Lastly, there was a whole US management approach which pissed the Japanese financial people right off, which led to delays in releases and localisations on the in the US, their largest market - Shenmue II is the most famous victim of this, having never had a US release. Yes, SEGA all but closed their doors when the Dreamcast's sales slowed somewhat on the release of the PS2, but it didn't kill SEGA's anything. SEGA shrank SEGA's hardware division. The change in arcade focus killed SEGA's home console division, but the hardware division is still running even today. These days they make Linux and Windows based arcade machines, along with whatever else is trendy in Japan, including some Patchinko machines too. Arguably, SEGA's NAOMI hardware platform is one the longest running in arcades only beaten by the Neo Geo whose parent company also almost went out of business due to mismanagement and arcade market shrinkage.

You need to know more about the market you're trying to pretend you have some expert opinion of. I understand you're still trying for guilt by association, but it's the wrong approach. Even now, as I already stated, there are Dreamcast games being made by small and larger studios - all independent, because the Kalisto development libraries are Open Source. It's certainly a niche market but one that has proven longevity for a console which all but went out of the public eye by 2001, over a decade ago.

Now onto your points (which I'll deal with in non-reverse order).

1. Yes, it's a console, but it's a reasonably cheap Android console with a small, yet professionally developed ready-made library of launch titles. Many people may not have played many of the Tegra 3 (or Tegra 2) 'THD' titles, so this will enable those games to reach new markets. I've never assumed success, but you are assuming failure and that's not rational because there is a clear demand for the product based on the rapid uptake of the Kickstarter. Of course, that is no guarantee of the success of the product on release or the continued success of it afterwards, but it is most certainly a clear measure of it meeting a gap in the market in terms of demand.
2. The userbase for any new system is small. That said, this is an Android system, so even beyond the Tegra Zone THD games which support controllers there are other products including games and emulators which will happily work on the OUYA with no modification at all right from launch day. Beyond that, people are bound to release OUYA specific versions of their games, if only to see how they will sell. If you're a real developer you'll know as well as I do that compiling an APK can even get it pushed straight to Google Play with almost nothing to interrupt the process (this also is part of a normal Android debug process too once you've stepped beyond traces and such). That's why the OUYA is fantastic for Indies aside from the free SDK for Android/Google. You're absolutely lying when you describe a simple process of compiling for a different display output res in Eclipse and pushing an APK to Google Play as a 'huge, expensive undertaking'. Either you're just a jobbing programmer or a really misinformed Android developer OR you're lying to try and make things sound a whole more complicated than they are but in no way is that hugely complicated or expensive. The Tegra 3's Geforce ULP 12 Core GPU is a known quantity and there are already two 1200p Full HD tablets which target resolutions beyond 1080p on the market; the Asus Transformer Pad Infinity TF700 and the Acer A700/A701. Every Tegrazone game runs fine on them at native res, so really, there's almost no barrier for any developer to do the same with their games for OUYA which has the same GPU, same chipset and runs at a slightly lower res of 1080p if used at the maximum native res of an HDTV. Of course controller support is another issue, but as I already explained, many Android games and apps have controller support built and many that don't work with a controller via IME anyway.
3. Underpowered? For who? In what context? You seem to making a lot of assumptions about what people expect out of a $99 Indie targeted home console. Meanwhile, games like Riptide GP, Dead Trigger, Soulcaraft, Shadowgun and quite a few more show that Tegra 3 is quite a capable chipset. Also, check out the video at the end of these points, for fun.
4. See point 2. You know almost nothing about Android and yet you continue to call yourself a developer. Shameful.
5. Not portable? Again, in what context? Can I take my OUYA to my friend's house and plug it into his TV? YES. It's portable in the same way an 360, PS3 or Wii is portable. What a shitty point you've made! People are buying cheap small games for home consoles too, or did the Wii's Virtual Console, PSN and Xbox Live completely pass you by? What another shitty point you've made! Congrats.
6. See above and if your TV is stupid get a smarter one.

This is from 2011, running on an Asus Transformer Prime which uses the Tegra 3.

So what are the sales like for this fantastic Asus Transformer Prime?

So it’s time for us to reveal our secret weapon, someone who has been working with us tirelessly behind the scenes to bring OUYA to life, and today we’re pulling back the curtain. Meet Muffi Ghadiali from our team, who is in charge of making the OUYA product, hardware and software. Muffi joined OUYA from Lab126, a part of Amazon, where he worked on the Kindle line of products. I thought it would be best if you heard directly from him, so he wrote to you... ___ Kickstarters! I’m Muffi, and I want to tell you a little bit about what we’re working on at OUYA. I came out of Lab126’s product team where I worked on the Kindle line -- hardware and software. I worked every day with engineering, product design, industrial design, operations, supply chain, and QA teams. I joined OUYA because I saw--early on--the potential for an open technology to change how gaming works. Gamers are unique. They are sophisticated and they follow products from the first idea all the way to market. For a product guy like me, that's exciting. We're getting a lot of feedback, great support and lots of questions. Sometimes those are tough questions but they keep me at the top of my game. It's pretty cool that Kickstarter facilitates a direct dialogue with future users. My job at OUYA is to ensure that we meet the needs of gamers and developers. In short, I’m here to deliver OUYA. I know from experience that this can be done: I’ve built consumer technology products for more than 15 years--both hardware and software. I’ve worked on set-top boxes, media streaming devices, handheld devices, content services, and other big consumer products. I’ve been playing a key role in designing the path that will take OUYA to market, from technology to production. And while it may seem aggressive, the technology here is actually fairly standard. We’re not building a hovercraft or a nano-bot. If you look online at the teardowns of other devices with some of the same components, you’ll see that our device can be built for well under $99. What IS innovative is the beautiful design from Yves Behar, and our model for working with game developers. From my perspective, I’m tackling the easy part. So here’s what we’re doing now... Developers, we’re working to get an SDK in your hands as fast as we can, please be patient. It will be pretty simple to start, using the existing Android SDK and adding the ability to promote your game, and to charge OUYA customers. We’ll add to it as we go. We’re getting our ducks in a row on the hardware production. NVIDIA is helping us with production designs, and selecting the right device manufacturer. We’re in talks with a few manufacturers. I was just playing with our circuit board yesterday. NVIDIA is also helping us maximize the performance of our Tegra 3 chips -- they’ll work even better than the demos you see online. We’ll be able to support some intense games. And we heard your feedback: yes, yes, we’ll add an Ethernet jack. We have a lot of consoles to make, so I wouldn’t expect too many more changes to the spec. Please keep sending your comments. We are doing everything to deliver for you. Thanks! Muffi

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad: I don't know, to be honest. It had a lot of initial excitement, so much so that Asus had trouble fulfilling orders, then it was hampered by a ridiculous lawsuit (where an idiot on behalf of himself sued for Hasbro because of the Transformer Prime supposed Optimus Prime connection - the judge overseeing the case essentially laughed it out of court with a really funny speech talking about Autobots vs Decepticons, but it delayed deliveries all the same) and issues regarding the metal back cover which stifled the WiFi (still worked fine) and GPS (didn't work for many people) signals. Sales slowed as a result, but I think it sold reasonably well and is still on sale even now. Still, the Transformer line has been successful enough to have a few variants from the original Transformer (Tegra 2) through to the budget version of the Prime (TF300 which has an all plastic shell, avoiding the GPS interference issues, and a non Super IPS screen) and the previously mentioned Transformer Pad Infinity TF700 which has the 1920x1200 screen. Also, Asus manufactures the Google Nexus 7 7" Tablet which also uses the Tegra 3 chipset. The HTC One X (international edition) also uses the Tegra 3 as well. The point being that Tegra 3 is a very capable chipset and is used in a lot of devices. Oh cool, a new update from OUYA!

Because I read this:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/27/judge-asus-transformer-isnt-infringing-on-hasbros-trademark-and-asus-reveals-embarrassing-sales-stats/

So when court filings reveal that pre-orders for this poster child for Android 4 tablets (and it does look great) total a whopping 2,000 units as of a month ago, it’s kind of a letdown. That and 80,000 going to retailers worldwide make the device seem rather minor even in comparison to other Android products like the Nook Color and Kindle Fire.

There's also this:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/ouya-nears-5m-on-kickstarter-but-are-the-lies-catching-up

Last week Ouya founder Julie Uhrman told MCV’s sister site Develop that the company would be seeking funding outside of Kickstarter.

“This is a really big undertaking and it’s going to be expensive. We’re looking for additional funds of money but more importantly we wanted to take it to Kickstarter regardless.”

That’s a direct quote. The words weren’t twisted to suit an agenda.

So why did Uhrman then tell Eurogamer in response to our story that: "Let me be clear, Ouya is not seeking additional funding outside of Kickstarter. Our intent in going to Kickstarter was to raise money that would take us from functional prototype to product on the market."

That’s a direct quote. Hopefully the words weren’t twisted to suit an agenda.

I totally understand why tegrazone don't reveal how many downloads they've had.

I also doubt the device will end up at 99 bucks, if it's even released in any capacity beyond "buy it from our website",

@Izbaadin_Islamabad: Well, I think you're conflating a lot of things to try and shape an 'evil' story here.

The Transformer Prime has issues which I mentioned, while it's predecessor sold well and its two following units both seem to be selling well. That said, none of those issues are ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the Tegra 3 chipset. By all accounts Tegra 3 is an extremely powerful chipset for a Wifi mobile device (and equally for a 3G device, Nvidia are yet to sign a 4G signal licensing deal). So I fail to see the connection you're trying to make with Asus' failings wrt Transformer Prime and Nvidia's chipset. They are two wholly separate companies and as I said before Tegra 3 is being used by HTC in the One X and elsewhere too, including the OUYA. The point of the video was to show you that its Geforce ULP 12core is actually quite powerful, that's all.

The other issue you're talking about is a funding discussion where there is certainly some lack of clarity in the way you seem to be addressing them, but the article you reference doesn't agree with you:-

"And let’s be clear – just as the enthusiasm for Ouya upon its unveiling was disproportionate in its adulation so too has the backlash to that been a bit heavy handed.

Claims that Ouya amounts to nothing more than a ‘scam’ are probably a bit strong (that statement could yet be proved incorrect, of course). But questions about the validity and, in particular, the security of an openly hackable Android platform designed for a TV and joypad are spot on."

That's a little different from the sinister idea that you're trying to shape. The truth is a lot more banal:-

"The cold truth is that corporations live by PR and bad PR can sometimes involve lies. And despite its claims of open development and rights for workers and social evolution, Ouya is a moneymaking business. Or it at least hopes to be."

Businesses do things for reasons best known to themselves and sometimes, especially in these internet gossip centric times, PR slip ups can be misread and utterly misunderstood. Uhrman may well be trying to avoid asking for more money or she may be asking for money outside of Kickstarter, we don't know. The thing is, UNLIKE THE PENNY ARCADE SITUATION or even what happened at Giantbomb (you know, the place we're talking together through), OUYA hasn't sold anything yet, both of those organisations did both in terms of product and advertising and they still went ahead and sought further funding to stay afloat. The internet survived the transition and so did their respective audiences, even though there were kerfuffles and some people complained and worried. If that happens to OUYA then, oh well, that's business, nothing is free in this world and setting up a new system and market is an expensive exercise. People who believe in OUYA and Android are cut of similar cloth to those who believed in Penny Arcade and Giantbomb; that Independent Ideas can flourish and grow and even remain authentic even though they have to be funded by Big Nasty Realities like advertising and corporate interests.

There are no demons here dude. Grow up. Nobody is forcing you to be involved in Ouya and frankly, if you think it's a scam, then don't invest. Simple. Bye now.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad: Well, I think you're conflating a lot of things to try and shape an 'evil' story here.

The Transformer Prime has issues which I mentioned, while it's predecessor sold well and its two following units both seem to be selling well. That said, none of those issues are ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the Tegra 3 chipset. By all accounts Tegra 3 is an extremely powerful chipset for a Wifi mobile device (and equally for a 3G device, Nvidia are yet to sign a 4G signal licensing deal). So I fail to see the connection you're trying to make with Asus' failings wrt Transformer Prime and Nvidia's chipset. They are two wholly separate companies and as I said before Tegra 3 is being used by HTC in the One X and elsewhere too, including the OUYA. The point of the video was to show you that its Geforce ULP 12core is actually quite powerful, that's all.

The other issue you're talking about is a funding discussion where there is certainly some lack of clarity in the way you seem to be addressing them, but the article you reference doesn't agree with you:-

"And let’s be clear – just as the enthusiasm for Ouya upon its unveiling was disproportionate in its adulation so too has the backlash to that been a bit heavy handed.

Claims that Ouya amounts to nothing more than a ‘scam’ are probably a bit strong (that statement could yet be proved incorrect, of course). But questions about the validity and, in particular, the security of an openly hackable Android platform designed for a TV and joypad are spot on."

That's a little different from the sinister idea that you're trying to shape. The truth is a lot more banal:-

"The cold truth is that corporations live by PR and bad PR can sometimes involve lies. And despite its claims of open development and rights for workers and social evolution, Ouya is a moneymaking business. Or it at least hopes to be."

Businesses do things for reasons best known to themselves and sometimes, especially in these internet gossip centric times, PR slip ups can be misread and utterly misunderstood. Uhrman may well be trying to avoid asking for more money or she may be asking for money outside of Kickstarter, we don't know. The thing is, UNLIKE THE PENNY ARCADE SITUATION or even what happened at Giantbomb (you know, the place we're talking together through), OUYA hasn't sold anything yet, both of those organisations did both in terms of product and advertising and they still went ahead and sought further funding to stay afloat. The internet survived the transition and so did their respective audiences, even though there were kerfuffles and some people complained and worried. If that happens to OUYA then, oh well, that's business, nothing is free in this world and setting up a new system and market is an expensive exercise. People who believe in OUYA and Android are cut of similar cloth to those who believed in Penny Arcade and Giantbomb; that Independent Ideas can flourish and grow and even remain authentic even though they have to be funded by Big Nasty Realities like advertising and corporate interests.

There are no demons here dude. Grow up. Nobody is forcing you to be involved in Ouya and frankly, if you think it's a scam, then don't invest. Simple. Bye now.

I don't think it's a scam in that they will take the money and run off to Mexico, not even the Phantom-dudes did that, I just think there's a very small market for this device and no one will care about it - developers and consumers alike. Tegra might be a good SoC but running Android few will ever know it. Not related, but have you seen Springtime for Hitler?

And I don't know anything about Giantbombs kickstarter and I don't know why you would drag poor old Penny Arcade's situation into all this, Bitch!Dyke!Faghag!Whore! has met enough resistance from you homophobes. Leave her alone.

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad: Well, I think you're conflating a lot of things to try and shape an 'evil' story here.

The Transformer Prime has issues which I mentioned, while it's predecessor sold well and its two following units both seem to be selling well. That said, none of those issues are ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the Tegra 3 chipset. By all accounts Tegra 3 is an extremely powerful chipset for a Wifi mobile device (and equally for a 3G device, Nvidia are yet to sign a 4G signal licensing deal). So I fail to see the connection you're trying to make with Asus' failings wrt Transformer Prime and Nvidia's chipset. They are two wholly separate companies and as I said before Tegra 3 is being used by HTC in the One X and elsewhere too, including the OUYA. The point of the video was to show you that its Geforce ULP 12core is actually quite powerful, that's all.

The other issue you're talking about is a funding discussion where there is certainly some lack of clarity in the way you seem to be addressing them, but the article you reference doesn't agree with you:-

"And let’s be clear – just as the enthusiasm for Ouya upon its unveiling was disproportionate in its adulation so too has the backlash to that been a bit heavy handed.

Claims that Ouya amounts to nothing more than a ‘scam’ are probably a bit strong (that statement could yet be proved incorrect, of course). But questions about the validity and, in particular, the security of an openly hackable Android platform designed for a TV and joypad are spot on."

That's a little different from the sinister idea that you're trying to shape. The truth is a lot more banal:-

"The cold truth is that corporations live by PR and bad PR can sometimes involve lies. And despite its claims of open development and rights for workers and social evolution, Ouya is a moneymaking business. Or it at least hopes to be."

Businesses do things for reasons best known to themselves and sometimes, especially in these internet gossip centric times, PR slip ups can be misread and utterly misunderstood. Uhrman may well be trying to avoid asking for more money or she may be asking for money outside of Kickstarter, we don't know. The thing is, UNLIKE THE PENNY ARCADE SITUATION or even what happened at Giantbomb (you know, the place we're talking together through), OUYA hasn't sold anything yet, both of those organisations did both in terms of product and advertising and they still went ahead and sought further funding to stay afloat. The internet survived the transition and so did their respective audiences, even though there were kerfuffles and some people complained and worried. If that happens to OUYA then, oh well, that's business, nothing is free in this world and setting up a new system and market is an expensive exercise. People who believe in OUYA and Android are cut of similar cloth to those who believed in Penny Arcade and Giantbomb; that Independent Ideas can flourish and grow and even remain authentic even though they have to be funded by Big Nasty Realities like advertising and corporate interests.

There are no demons here dude. Grow up. Nobody is forcing you to be involved in Ouya and frankly, if you think it's a scam, then don't invest. Simple. Bye now.

I don't think it's a scam in that they will take the money and run off to Mexico, not even the Phantom-dudes did that, I just think there's a very small market for this device and no one will care about it - developers and consumers alike. Tegra might be a good SoC but running Android few will ever know it. Not related, but have you seen Springtime for Hitler?

And I don't know anything about Giantbombs kickstarter and I don't know why you would drag poor old Penny Arcade's situation into all this, Bitch!Dyke!Faghag!Whore! has met enough resistance from you homophobes. Leave her alone.

The funding shows that that a lot of people care about it. At least 45,000 people so far. You do realise that the HTC One X is a hot seller and so is the Google Nexus 7? Both use the Tegra 3. You're trying so desperately to shape a vision of failure here, it's sad how desperate you are. Android is currently outselling iOS devices. Android has more apps than iOS does now.

Not related, but did you know that "Springtime for Hitler" is a fake musical which was part of a real musical comedy which is one of my most cherished movies of all time? Did you also know that there are people smarter and more worldly than you? No? Shocking. Oh wait, you were trying to be clever and make some vague reference to a tax fraud. I think I've found your themesong though:-

"One and one's two/ Two and two's four/ I feel so bad 'cause I'm losin' the war!"

Giantbomb didn't have a Kickstarter, but they did have community funding drives. It's amazing what you can learn. Hey, I never asked you, why are you here? Do you play games?

@SeriouslyNow said:

The funding shows that that a lot of people care about it. At least 45,000 people so far. You do realise that the HTC One X is a hot seller and so is the Google Nexus 7? Both use the Tegra 3. You're trying so desperately to shape a vision of failure here, it's sad how desperate you are. Android is currently outselling iOS devices. Android has more apps than iOS does now.

Not related, but did you know that "Springtime for Hitler" is a fake musical which was part of a real musical comedy which is one of my most cherished movies of all time? Did you also know that there are people smarter and more worldly than you? No? Shocking. Oh wait, you were trying to be clever and make some vague reference to a tax fraud. I think I've found your themesong though:-

"One and one's two/ Two and two's four/ I feel so bad 'cause I'm losin' the war!"

Giantbomb didn't have a Kickstarter, but they did have community funding drives. It's amazing what you can learn. Hey, I never asked you, why are you here? Do you play games?

Yes, I know what Springtime for Hitler is, that's why I brought it up. And it was defrauding investors as well, remember that part? Not that I'm saying they're doing that, they probably believe in their product despite what pesky reporters, journalists, consumers and developers say. Speaking of, have you seen Field of Dreams?

And 45000 people is not a profitable or notable userbase unless it's some kind of niche iPhone-accessory. Imagine if a game had an attach rate of 1:1 and it only sold 45000 copies, how pathetic would that be? The first week this device might be available, how do you think sales will go compared to the first week of sales of a new iPad? Will it sell 50% as well? 10%? 1%? 0.1%?

And shame on you for trying to pull white privilege and claim I can't be worldly or smart just because I was born in Pakistan. Shame on you.

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

The funding shows that that a lot of people care about it. At least 45,000 people so far. You do realise that the HTC One X is a hot seller and so is the Google Nexus 7? Both use the Tegra 3. You're trying so desperately to shape a vision of failure here, it's sad how desperate you are. Android is currently outselling iOS devices. Android has more apps than iOS does now.

Not related, but did you know that "Springtime for Hitler" is a fake musical which was part of a real musical comedy which is one of my most cherished movies of all time? Did you also know that there are people smarter and more worldly than you? No? Shocking. Oh wait, you were trying to be clever and make some vague reference to a tax fraud. I think I've found your themesong though:-

"One and one's two/ Two and two's four/ I feel so bad 'cause I'm losin' the war!"

Giantbomb didn't have a Kickstarter, but they did have community funding drives. It's amazing what you can learn. Hey, I never asked you, why are you here? Do you play games?

Yes, I know what Springtime for Hitler is, that's why I brought it up. And it was defrauding investors as well, remember that part? Not that I'm saying they're doing that, they probably believe in their product despite what pesky reporters, journalists, consumers and developers say. Speaking of, have you seen Field of Dreams?

And 45000 people is not a profitable or notable userbase unless it's some kind of niche iPhone-accessory. Imagine if a game had an attach rate of 1:1 and it only sold 45000 copies, how pathetic would that be? The first week this device might be available, how do you think sales will go compared to the first week of sales of a new iPad? Will it sell 50% as well? 10%? 1%? 0.1%?

And shame on you for trying to pull white privilege and claim I can't be worldly or smart just because I was born in Pakistan. Shame on you.

Your name defines where you were born now? Interesting. I know a dude called Wazeem born in Australia. I also know a Monica who was born in Nepal and a Sri born in Jamaica. You are getting desperate even trying to play a race card.

The thing about The Producers is that they didn't believe in their production, but it succeeded despite their expectations and that got them in trouble, so either you're being clever despite yourself or you're being stupid because you didn't understand the story. Field of Dreams now is it? Drop the silly jabs. This isn't a movie, it's a product, with very real technology, a very real market and a very real team of talented people behind it.

Ouya's at 45K people now, with 20 days to go on the Kickstarter, predictions see this kickstarter ending at 40million with 10 times the users of right now. Even if it's half that, that's a sizeable launch audience for a product which already has Indie developer support and at least 30 launch titles made specifically for the hardware.

You keep predicting failure when everything else in reality talks otherwise. This isn't an iPad. Why are you comparing it to an iPad. It's a console for Indie Developers.

Shame on you, actually. Why is Ouya's success such a burden to you? You need to be more upfront.

Minecraft on the big screen with a controller? Yes please.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

The funding shows that that a lot of people care about it. At least 45,000 people so far. You do realise that the HTC One X is a hot seller and so is the Google Nexus 7? Both use the Tegra 3. You're trying so desperately to shape a vision of failure here, it's sad how desperate you are. Android is currently outselling iOS devices. Android has more apps than iOS does now.

Not related, but did you know that "Springtime for Hitler" is a fake musical which was part of a real musical comedy which is one of my most cherished movies of all time? Did you also know that there are people smarter and more worldly than you? No? Shocking. Oh wait, you were trying to be clever and make some vague reference to a tax fraud. I think I've found your themesong though:-

"One and one's two/ Two and two's four/ I feel so bad 'cause I'm losin' the war!"

Giantbomb didn't have a Kickstarter, but they did have community funding drives. It's amazing what you can learn. Hey, I never asked you, why are you here? Do you play games?

Yes, I know what Springtime for Hitler is, that's why I brought it up. And it was defrauding investors as well, remember that part? Not that I'm saying they're doing that, they probably believe in their product despite what pesky reporters, journalists, consumers and developers say. Speaking of, have you seen Field of Dreams?

And 45000 people is not a profitable or notable userbase unless it's some kind of niche iPhone-accessory. Imagine if a game had an attach rate of 1:1 and it only sold 45000 copies, how pathetic would that be? The first week this device might be available, how do you think sales will go compared to the first week of sales of a new iPad? Will it sell 50% as well? 10%? 1%? 0.1%?

And shame on you for trying to pull white privilege and claim I can't be worldly or smart just because I was born in Pakistan. Shame on you.

Your name defines where you were born now? Interesting. I know a dude called Wazeem born in Australia. I also know a Monica who was born in Nepal and a Sri born in Jamaica. You are getting desperate even trying to play a race card.

The thing about The Producers is that they didn't believe in their production, but it succeeded despite their expectations and that got them in trouble, so either you're being clever despite yourself or you're being stupid because you didn't understand the story. Field of Dreams now is it? Drop the silly jabs. This isn't a movie, it's a product, with very real technology, a very real market and a very real team of talented people behind it.

Ouya's at 45K people now, with 20 days to go on the Kickstarter, predictions see this kickstarter ending at 40million with 10 times the users of right now. Even if it's half that, that's a sizeable launch audience for a product which already has Indie developer support and at least 30 launch titles made specifically for the hardware.

You keep predicting failure when everything else in reality talks otherwise. This isn't an iPad. Why are you comparing it to an iPad. It's a console for Indie Developers.

Shame on you, actually. Why is Ouya's success such a burden to you? You need to be more upfront.

Do you think it's necessary for me to declare my birth and standard before I make a post, like in oldey white times, just so you don't make some n-word joke in the wrong company forum? Seriously? The internets reach is global, and people emigrate, you missed that part but you think Tegraz is fed to every child on the planet? Oh and you're talking about The Producers, did you know there was a movie before they made a musical that was turned into a movie? Your klan hood is showing, my dear.

Also, that's not predictions, you can even ask that service provider about if they're doing predictions and they'll say "hell no!".

But if your bigot reality wants to compete with actual reality we can bet money on it. But not in Ron Paul-funbucks/Bitcoins please. My money says, less than three million sold within a year of release, while biggest selling title won't sell more than 80k - you up for that?

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Izbaadin_Islamabad said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

The funding shows that that a lot of people care about it. At least 45,000 people so far. You do realise that the HTC One X is a hot seller and so is the Google Nexus 7? Both use the Tegra 3. You're trying so desperately to shape a vision of failure here, it's sad how desperate you are. Android is currently outselling iOS devices. Android has more apps than iOS does now.

Not related, but did you know that "Springtime for Hitler" is a fake musical which was part of a real musical comedy which is one of my most cherished movies of all time? Did you also know that there are people smarter and more worldly than you? No? Shocking. Oh wait, you were trying to be clever and make some vague reference to a tax fraud. I think I've found your themesong though:-

"One and one's two/ Two and two's four/ I feel so bad 'cause I'm losin' the war!"

Giantbomb didn't have a Kickstarter, but they did have community funding drives. It's amazing what you can learn. Hey, I never asked you, why are you here? Do you play games?

Yes, I know what Springtime for Hitler is, that's why I brought it up. And it was defrauding investors as well, remember that part? Not that I'm saying they're doing that, they probably believe in their product despite what pesky reporters, journalists, consumers and developers say. Speaking of, have you seen Field of Dreams?

And 45000 people is not a profitable or notable userbase unless it's some kind of niche iPhone-accessory. Imagine if a game had an attach rate of 1:1 and it only sold 45000 copies, how pathetic would that be? The first week this device might be available, how do you think sales will go compared to the first week of sales of a new iPad? Will it sell 50% as well? 10%? 1%? 0.1%?

And shame on you for trying to pull white privilege and claim I can't be worldly or smart just because I was born in Pakistan. Shame on you.

Your name defines where you were born now? Interesting. I know a dude called Wazeem born in Australia. I also know a Monica who was born in Nepal and a Sri born in Jamaica. You are getting desperate even trying to play a race card.

The thing about The Producers is that they didn't believe in their production, but it succeeded despite their expectations and that got them in trouble, so either you're being clever despite yourself or you're being stupid because you didn't understand the story. Field of Dreams now is it? Drop the silly jabs. This isn't a movie, it's a product, with very real technology, a very real market and a very real team of talented people behind it.

Ouya's at 45K people now, with 20 days to go on the Kickstarter, predictions see this kickstarter ending at 40million with 10 times the users of right now. Even if it's half that, that's a sizeable launch audience for a product which already has Indie developer support and at least 30 launch titles made specifically for the hardware.

You keep predicting failure when everything else in reality talks otherwise. This isn't an iPad. Why are you comparing it to an iPad. It's a console for Indie Developers.

Shame on you, actually. Why is Ouya's success such a burden to you? You need to be more upfront.

Do you think it's necessary for me to declare my birth and standard before I make a post, like in oldey white times, just so you don't make some n-word joke in the wrong company forum? Seriously? The internets reach is global, and people emigrate, you missed that part but you think Tegraz is fed to every child on the planet? Oh and you're talking about The Producers, did you know there was a movie before they made a musical that was turned into a movie? Your klan hood is showing, my dear.

Also, that's not predictions, you can even ask that service provider about if they're doing predictions and they'll say "hell no!".

But if your bigot reality wants to compete with actual reality we can bet money on it. But not in Ron Paul-funbucks/Bitcoins please. My money says, less than three million sold within a year of release, while biggest selling title won't sell more than 80k - you up for that?

Dude, stop trying to raise the stakes. I'm in no way a racist. And it's ridiculous for you to even assert that. This has nothing to do with race, even though you are desperately trying to do so. You're talking about Mel Brooks to a Jew. I'm a Jew. Mel Brooks to Jews is like Ashe Bosle or Sha Ruhk Khan to Indians; we all know all about his work and have been culturally glommed to his side side since his early days. Any Indian on the street will likely know which movies Ashe has sung for better than most people outside of the country. This is much the same thing. You're trying to make assertions and gain some upper hand based on knowledge provided by the internet. And that's fine and all but it's not experience. Information is not experience but experience can glean information. You keep name dropping the Producers and you missed the point of the experience of Max and Leo in the same breath. That was my point; you're not worldly and talk about things as if you are, which has nothing whatsoever do to with where you were born and what your name is. The Producers of 1968 is one of my favourite movies of all time. Max's best line is "I have a cardboard belt!" and it still makes me laugh thinking about the look on Zero's face when he says it. My second fave movie is Blazing Saddles. I've watched them since I was very young. Just as I did Get Smart for that matter.

The 40 million IS a prediction. By financial analysts no less. There is a site which analyses Kickstarters and projects an end value based on the data which has preceded. That's where the prediction comes from. As I said even it only gets halfway to that value, that's still a sizeable launch base to start from.

Your prediction is interesting. Is is based on any data?

You're still trying for guilt by association but as far as I know Amazon don't deal in Bitcoins.

Calm down please.

@Elazul said:

@iAmJohn said:

I'm just throwing it out there: this is a terrible idea for a console and the people who have made this succeed are bad people.

I mean, forget how awful Android is as a platform in general with its general lack of standards for everything including apps and compatibility across versions, they're launching this thing on Ice Cream Sandwich? That makes a lot of sense - use an Android base that only 10% of Android users even use with Jelly Bean coming out really soon. Great thinking there guys; that's not going to worsen the market fragmentation issue at all!

Not to mention that no one in their right mind is going to buy an entirely new piece of hardware to play fucking phone games on their TV.

what about the people that donated close to 1,000,000 dollars, do they not count?