Microsoft Laying Off 18,000 Employees

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that this is how most businesses think/operate.

Their only responsibility is to appease the shareholders, and as I said, it is perfectly valid to debate whether or not Capitalism is a fair and just system, but the whole idea that companies who are utilising the system to their benefit to appease their shareholders are horrible monsters is crazy.

This is how the majority of companies operate, fair or not.

@crommi said:

@somejerk said:

But I'm not talking about the 12,500 jobs going from the Nokia parts, the company they planted one of their own into with the mission to drive the company into the ground so hard and so fast that they could buy it for a spittle. Get on it, EU investigatiors.

At least he received 25 million dollar bonus for the job well done, while employees got fired. Take a look at this graph and try to guess when Stephen Elop came to Nokia from Microsoft:

Elop plan was an absolute disaster. Nokia needed to move away from Symbian, there's no doubt there, but Elop killed it too quickly in favour of WP when they simply weren't ready and as a result had to shift focus thus lost profit. Things eventually started to go back up (not seen in this graph) but by that point, the damage had been done and now Nokia is a shadow of its former self. MS could easily flourish with Nokia taking on their best and their work and incorporating it into their own (or at least the ideas), instead they fire half of them and ditch some of their best work. I'm a fan on Windows Phone but it's hard to be a fan when MS do stupid things like this, kill off MixRadio, as well as ruin their own music and video apss as well as a bunch of loved features in their 8.1 update. They also prioritise their own apps on other platforms. Skype for example is complete shit on WP and has a bunch of missing features that iOS and Android have had for a very long time.

As to the people who should worry about being fired, I will say that basically anyone who isn't involved with developing Windows or Office should probably be concerned. Ballmer tried to move MS to be a more consumer facing company but now it possibly seems that MS will instead completely shift away from what he was doing and instead go back to being all about enterprise. Let's face it, their consumer products (no matter their quality) have always been met with poor results and financial loss. See Zune, Surface and their mobile efforts.

I believe Kinect has finally become sentient and wrote this layoff announcement itself.

It's the only reasonable explanation for how cold and robotic this sounds.

You're not being ridiculous, just naive. If the choice is between laying off a portion of your staff, and having your entire staff lose their jobs because you went out of business, it's not really a choice at all. The fact that these are giant corporations we're talking about doesn't change the fact that they have a responsibility to look after the profitability of their company, because even a company as big as Microsoft can quickly go under if it's not vigilant.

Placing moral judgements on giant corporations for layoffs is like morally criticizing a lion when it kills a gazelle. It's not that I'm happy that the gazelle is dead, far from it. I just understand that it's pointless to tie yourself in ethical knots over a thing that's inherent to the very nature of an organism. It's just a thing that it must do from time to time in order to survive.

I feel for the folks who are losing their jobs, I've been there myself and it's not fun. I hope they land on their feet. But for all we know, Microsoft may have saved thousands of jobs by purchasing Nokia's mobile phone business in the first place -- maybe Nokia would've shut its doors entirely if they hadn't found a buyer. The fact is, none of us will ever know for sure.

I have personally been there myself. Being laid off from a full time job to go to unemployment benefits which is more than half the salary. It's hard. But unfortunately it's one of those things that may need to happen in order for a company to survive. People need to realize that giant corporations still have "budgets" and operating costs.

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

@spraynardtatum said:

Here's to our corporate overlords:

(This incredibly subversive anti-corporate animated gif has been brought to you by the fine folks at Warner Brothers Entertainment and its parent company TimeWarner Inc.)

"Last week in my email to you I synthesized our strategic direction as a productivity and platform company."

ugh, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck off

I believe it was synthesized.

Then I don't think it's a very good point.

@spraynardtatum said:

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

Good argument.

I work for a small company that at it's peak employed over 200 employees. During the last recession they let go approximately 150 employees or about 75% of the work force. It was do that or close up shop. Now, business is coming back and people have been rehired or new positions filled and it is still a going concern.

18,000 employees is not even 15% of Microsoft's workforce. You don't have the slightest clue what decisions were made and what outcomes were averted by going this route, but I see it's pointless to argue with you.

Yeah, I know that layoffs are not a good thing but in a way at least they are being transparent. The other thing is that is not that all 18,000 are going to be fired effective as of that announcement but rather its going to take months going until next year and making sure those who are affected are being taken care of.

Don't get me wrong, it still sucks that people are losing their jobs. I wish everyone affected gets to transition into a new job or start up their own thing sooner rather than later.

@kevin_cogneto said:

@spraynardtatum said:

Here's to our corporate overlords:

(This incredibly subversive anti-corporate animated gif has been brought to you by the fine folks at Warner Brothers Entertainment and its parent company TimeWarner Inc.)

Your point is what? That it's hypocritical to use a gif from a movie to express disdain because it is owned by a corporation? Oh well, I think it gets my point across effectively.

:( moral dilemmas are hard ):

@thallium said:

@spraynardtatum said:

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

Good argument.

I work for a small company that at it's peak employed over 200 employees. During the last recession they let go approximately 150 employees or about 75% of the work force. It was do that or close up shop. Now, business is coming back and people have been rehired or new positions filled and it is still a going concern.

18,000 employees is not even 15% of Microsoft's workforce. You don't have the slightest clue what decisions were made and what outcomes were averted by going this route, but I see it's pointless to argue with you.

Those are obviously two separate situations. Microsoft wouldn't have had to "close up shop" if these 18,000 people weren't fired. That is nowhere in that letter.

Also, I'd like to point out that I can levee the exact same bolded argument on you. Except I'm not the one excusing 18,000 losing their jobs in the process.

@spraynardtatum said:

@thallium said:

@spraynardtatum said:

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

Good argument.

I work for a small company that at it's peak employed over 200 employees. During the last recession they let go approximately 150 employees or about 75% of the work force. It was do that or close up shop. Now, business is coming back and people have been rehired or new positions filled and it is still a going concern.

18,000 employees is not even 15% of Microsoft's workforce. You don't have the slightest clue what decisions were made and what outcomes were averted by going this route, but I see it's pointless to argue with you.

Those are obviously two separate situations. Microsoft wouldn't have had to "close up shop" if these 18,000 people weren't fired. That is nowhere in that letter.

Also, I'd like to point out that I can levee the exact same bolded argument on you. Except I'm not the one excusing 18,000 losing their jobs in the process.

I don't have any idea what your last paragraph means. I never excused anything and I don't know what a bolded argument is.

Who are you responding too? I agree with you.

Between this and Kin, Microsoft sure loves investing a bunch of time and money and then pulling the plug prematurely.

@thallium said:

@spraynardtatum said:

@thallium said:

@spraynardtatum said:

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

Good argument.

I work for a small company that at it's peak employed over 200 employees. During the last recession they let go approximately 150 employees or about 75% of the work force. It was do that or close up shop. Now, business is coming back and people have been rehired or new positions filled and it is still a going concern.

18,000 employees is not even 15% of Microsoft's workforce. You don't have the slightest clue what decisions were made and what outcomes were averted by going this route, but I see it's pointless to argue with you.

Those are obviously two separate situations. Microsoft wouldn't have had to "close up shop" if these 18,000 people weren't fired. That is nowhere in that letter.

Also, I'd like to point out that I can levee the exact same bolded argument on you. Except I'm not the one excusing 18,000 losing their jobs in the process.

I don't have any idea what your last paragraph means. I never excused anything and I don't know what a bolded argument is.

You have done nothing but find excuses for the layoffs since you replied to my first comment. As for a bolded argument, I was just referencing the text that I had bolded above.

@thallium: Oh it was everyone in the quote thread in general and yes we are all in agreement that the lay off situation is very unfortunate no matter how you look at it.

@gaspower: It's beyond unfortunate.

Shitty jargon aside, this clearly shows MS are trying to recover from their failures in the mobile market.

They are essentially removing themselves from the Nokia brand entirely.

Let me tell you a story of a man named Stephen Elop, and a company called Nokia, in a land called Finland.

Twas in the time before september of 2010, a Canadian Fellow named Elop was then.

A member of a senior leadership team, worked for Microsoft and ran windows office, full steam.

But in 2010 a foolish plan, Elop became CEO of Nokia Finland.

He ventured full speed with a steep descent, dropped nokias market share by 35%.

He drove the company to the ground.

A genious? or just an fool? i still haven't found.

Then in the september of 2013, he announced to the world his newest scheme.

He would sell the company to his old buddy Steve and at a bargain price of most Nokias employees.

And so yesterday when the emails went out.

that Nokia would lay off, oh just about.

13000 employees there was no further doubt.

that The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, seldom works out.

I feel really bad for these guys and gals that got laid off.

Let's not pretend the majority of these ppl are going to be starving. Many of them were cherry picked from the best Ivy League schools and won't have a problem finding work elsewhere. The near retirement age ppl have it the worst. Instead of retiring and buying a yacht they just gotta settle for a beach house. They are being laid off not fired. There is a difference. The people that should've been fired is the marketing teams and PR involved with the xbox one launch.

It is time to stop rewarding failure.

@spraynardtatum said:

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

Companies need to lay people off sometimes, it is a fact of life.

And it is easy for someone who has absolutely no knowledge of their finances to suggest that it would be a trivial thing for MS to just hold onto 18,000 employees indefinitely out of goodwill.

You can live in your ideal fantasy world where nobody ever gets laid off all you want, but that is not how things happen in real life.

Yes it is unfortunate that these people are losing their jobs, but stop being so naive.

I finally get an Xbox One and this happens... But in all seriousness the Xbox One release came at a weird time: during the transition from Balmer to Satya. The vision seems so different now but I'm not entirely sure that is a bad thing. It is sad to see so many people get laid off but maybe this will be better for consumers in the long run.

Odd the things gaming press reports on. Can we expect a report the next time they make sweeping changes to their SQL Server licensing model? Because believe it or not... that makes more money than XBOX.

All these lay offs as bill gates calls for tons of migrant workers in the tech field.

That's pretty much the opposite, vast majority of these jobs will be from manufacturing, QA and customer service which do not pay that much and finding a new job will be difficult. After seeing first-hand how three different IT companies (including Nokia) handle closing down the shop, it's the management and top tier employees who just change office while ground-floor workforce is just tossed out. Then you have the local suppliers closing down because they no longer have a client, or remaining smaller clients are not enough to keep it sustainable.

While I understand that this corporate bullshit is unfortunately the way it works in our economical system and companies are not interested in just being profitable, shareholders are expecting the huge profits and more each year or they will lose faith in you. It's a shitty system that has no consideration for the destruction it leaves in it's wake; unemployment, broken homes, substance abuse and suicides.

Exactly. This move was expected for quite some time, albeit not quite this drastically.

@spraynardtatum: I feel like you live in some fantasy land where:

a) No person should ever have to be laid off

b) Once you are laid off, it's impossible to get another job

c) Microsoft should spend ~$2 billion a year supporting redundant employees

These are people who work in the tech industry. There is high demand for their skills. They have valuable experience working with some of the top companies in the world. They are being given generous severance packages. Most of them will be just fine. Yes, losing a job is inconvenient, but it's natural. Businesses rise and decline. Where one place lets people go, another place opens its doors. It's the way the world works.

While I feel bad for the people being let go, this is move MS needed to make. They've always been a bloated company, and the recent Nokia acquisition only made it worse. I'm glad they're going to downsize management as well. Those positions tend to be the most entrenched, and many exist just to justify existing.

or about Baby Seals getting clubbed to death? Let the guy be, nobody should be forced to give a shit about anything.

Yeah, I also kind of disagree with the idea that six months notice is "cruel". It definitely sucks, but I'd take 6 months notice over six days any time :)

It was stated in another report that this project will be completed as well.

This is so breathtakingly uninformed, it's incredible.

You really think "cherry picked Ivy Leaguers" are going to comprise even 5% of these layoffs? Yachts and beach houses? What? $10 says over half of these cuts go to blue collar positions, and that's probably being too conservative.

They are being laid off with severance, as is the norm with lots of large, profitable companies who lay people off. They aren't going from yachts to beach houses. Man alive.

Good news: Quantum Break not changing as a result, things going forward as planned! @patrickklepek

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/17/5914141/quantum-break-xbox-entertainment-studios-closure-xbox-one

@huey2k2 said:

@spraynardtatum said:

@huey2k2: 18,000 people. I'm not debating whether capitalism is fair. I'm saying Microsoft firing 18,000 people is morally reprehensible to me. I am calling Microsoft a heartless sleazy monster with no soul.

Here's to our corporate overlords:

Companies need to lay people off sometimes, it is a fact of life.

And it is easy for someone who has absolutely no knowledge of their finances to suggest that it would be a trivial thing for MS to just hold onto 18,000 employees indefinitely out of goodwill.

You can live in your ideal fantasy world where nobody ever gets laid off all you want, but that is not how things happen in real life.

Yes it is unfortunate that these people are losing their jobs, but stop being so naive.

There is a massive difference between NOBODY ever getting laid off and 18,000 getting laid off in one email. And, like I mentioned to someone else that claimed I have no knowledge of Microsofts finances, EITHER DO YOU! Stop pretending like what I'm concerned about is no big deal. 18,000 people is not business as usual for any company. That is a huge huge huge huge huge number. It's sickening to think about honestly. Stop protecting Microsoft from being criticized for such an appalling thing to do.

Yes, of course...in the real world (not my ideal fantasy world) people need to get laid off. It's a fact of life. Stop pretending like that is at all where I'm coming from. I never said no one should be fired. 18,000 people however....that is a different story.

My point stands, if this was in the cards than they shouldn't have even considered buying Nokia. It's reprehensible.

Well I hope there are a fuck ton of open doors because 18,000 can add up pretty quick. Imagine the queues! I'll say again...I don't know why I need to but I will...I'm not claiming AT ALL that no one should ever be laid off...

You go ahead and chalk this up to the rise and decline of business. I'm going to be on this side of the argument where I'm actually factoring in how many people this is. How many families of these peoples will be affected. "generous severance packages" can only go so far.

This is a monstrous. I don't care how much business sense it makes. It's inhumane.

It's Microsoft so 90% of people have made up their mind before even reading the article, because lets not forget that Microsoft is an evil corporation. This must never, ever be forgotten.

I hinted the sarcasm and I agree. Microsoft is the victim here. Not the 18,000.

I'm not sure why you have taken this so personally but no one mentioned that Microsoft is a victim in this situation. Also there is a staunch difference between getting laid off with 6 months notice and being fired.

As many, many people have pointed out in various ways already - it's unfortunate that those people are getting laid off, but pulling out all stops to completely victimize the employees and villify the big bad corporation is not the way to go. They aren't exactly being thrown to the curb here. Talk to anyone that has experienced serious layoffs during economic downturns and they will tell you they're getting let go fairly gently.

You just victimized Microsoft! In your last post!

Well, I won't really comment on MS move as I have no idea of the state of their business, I'll also not be apologetic about 18000 people losing their jobs like a lot of people are doing here, I bet if one of these people were one of the 18000 in the line of unemployment they would be felling quite differently about this.. unfortunately empathy is not a common thing these days...

What I will say though is that you gotta love the corporate world, specially the memos this guys send

"Hey people, yeah we're firing 18000 of you but hey, we have a great opportunity here in our hands, this is the most awesome time ever, everything is awesome"

Wonder how big of a bonus Nadella will collect on the backs of the 18,000 people he's just screwed. Feel bad for former independent Nokia employees who's company just got vultured and torn apart.

That email reads like something off of Office Space. Maybe small business man can translate it for the rest of us?

@spraynardtatum: yes they are a general victim of negative bias

Subject: Starting to Evolve Our Organization and Culture

I synthesized our strategic direction as a productivity and platform company.

The first step to building the right organization for our ambitions is to realign our workforce.

our work toward synergies and strategic alignment

We will realize the synergies to which we committed when we announced the acquisition last September. The first-party phone portfolio will align to Microsoft’s strategic direction. To win in the higher price tiers, we will focus on breakthrough innovation that expresses and enlivens Microsoft’s digital work and digital life experiences.

Yeah, this is seriously terrible news.