Microsoft Tries to Clear Up Xbox One's New Policies

I've had my fill of Halo anyway.

All this stuff bums me out way more than it should. Besides Wii U, which nobody seems to want to make games for, it seems like the other console manufacturers are adding services that only seem to be there to actively make things more complicated and less fun. Going away for a week or two and want to play some games? Too bad. Is there a game that doesn't interest you enough to buy, but interests you enough to run to the nearest Red Box and give it a rent? Tough luck. Has construction or weather forced you to be without internet for a few days? Hope you like books.

At the end of the day it's all about the games, but E3 has a lot of work to do to make think about buying a new console even close to around the "launch window". Unless Sony's policies are less restrictive (they won't be), there's plenty of other games to play until that first price drop.

Let's show Microsoft what we want and how we want it. Gamers United:

https://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-make-a-u-turn-on-your-decisions-regarding-the-xbox-one

stop DRM!

So many games that aren't worth $60.

This is just going to extinguish B level games once and for all if we stick to the "every brand new game is $60" model.

Dumb question on my part but if I don't own the games, do I even own the xbox?

Good article!

Let's make a change:

https://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-make-a-u-turn-on-your-decisions-regarding-the-xbox-one#

It's like the policies you'd read when first hied for a job.

This really scares me. The fact that they feel confident about introducing these blatantly anti-consumer measures is a terrible indicator for how the market is going to be in 5 or 10 years. It seems to me that many, if not most of these measures are at the behest and control of publishers who, it appears, can change them at any time. Microsoft has kowtowed to the wrong section of the industry.

@ei8htbit said:

There are a lot of reason why always online is a big deal:

• Many people has limited Internet access (on monthly plans), so they can get days at the time without any Internet and the xbox will be using bandwidth just by being powered on.
• Many people don't have broadband or high-speed connections.
• Under some circumstances (like moving to a new house, or a issue with your provider) you can be without Internet for weeks at the time.
• We are assuming its "24 hours since you where online", not "it checks your library every 24 hours". The difference is not trivial, since with an unstable connection (one that might get you disconnected sometimes) the latter implementation will affect you a lot more.
• It leaves a constant burden on Microsoft part. If the architecture fails, even for a day, it would mean 100% of the xbox would become glorified movie players. Even if it doesn't fail, how long do you think Microsoft or the publisher will support the consoles and games when they decide they are obsolete?

This is even worst than the PSN blackout. In that case, not every games and not every console were affected.

Granted, some of those examples are particular or not a responsibility of Microsoft, but they add layers of complexity to a situation that didn't exist on the current or previous generations, and it makes it because neither the publisher or the console manufacturer believe their clients are not stealing from them. If I pirate (and sell) every single game I play and you are a loyal consumer, good for you but, in the eyes of Microsoft, we are treated the same and there is no real difference between us.

I buy 99% of my games new. My internet is fast and very reliable. I rarely rent or purchase used games. I only have one friend that I trade games with, and even that is very rare. And yet I am disgusted by all of this. I only had a small interest in picking up an Xbox One because of lack of exclusive games I am interested in, plus ads and paying for live. Any small amount of interest I had left has been completely squelched. No thank you MS.

Ball is in your court Sony.

This all sounds.. fine? I guess.. I don't know, I'm not excited to get one but all of my friends are going to get one and I want to play games with them so I guess I'll have to get one.

IF I can't play the XBOX with Connect Unplug than I have no control over it.

If I can't not lend or borrow games than I don;t want Xbox Hollerith Machine One

If I can't sell or buy used game from or to who I want than MS can keep their Census machine and shove it up their A-Holes

Consumers protect your rights don;t buy the Xbox One....

I can buy a book and lend it to who ever, give it to who every, Sell it to who ever, 6-7 years from now when the Author is dead and gone I can READ the book still, I Don;t have to prove day in and day out that I AM NOT A THEIF...

DO NOT BUY THE XBOX ONE

This is NOT how it will work. You can partner up with friends and family whose MAIN system is the same system YOU are on. IF you or your family then access YOUR library from a DIFFERENT system you have to authenticate every hour. This authentication is required to make sure two copies of the same game attached to a system aren't running at the same time.

As a publisher, (Microsoft published games) they allow one trade per game to a person flagged as a friend, who has been a friend over 30-days. You, and your family and friends whose main system is your system then lose all rights to that game, and you can never get it back.

How are you okay with this?!

Oh I'll still still play games just not on Xbox, same goes for PS4 if they pull this shit, I knew there was a reason I saved up and bought a new gaming PC, sure steam has DRM but its nothing when compared to this crap.

I've been like this for months actually. Really enjoying the 3DS and the PC games right now. I may get one of the future consoles. So far leaning towards the PS4. Definitely not buying right away though. But the handheld market has such amazing games and the PC has just as many options. Plus now that I've got a projector Big Picture mode on Steam should be pretty cool. Just need a good screen to project to.

Duder, it's all good. In fact you can share your entire library of games with up to 10 others - no fees at all - you don't even need to walk over to your bud's house to hand off the discs.

I still think they need to extend the time for offline mode from 24 hours to 5 to 7 days. Much like the scenario presented on the Bombcast where you are moving and don't have internet, or your internet is not working, you have sufficient enough time to enjoy games that don't require an internet connection. It would also be helpful for those of us living in Alaska where bandwidth caps are enforced and the caps are low (I pay $80/month for 150GB of data a month). There are times when you reach your cap, and in order to not pay overage fees, you shut off your internet. Its a convenience thing, but it would be nice.

@ei8htbit: Again, this is NOT how it works. I understand, in Microsoft's vague explanation, it is easy to misunderstand exactly how the system works (and they probably did that on purpose). See my response to Zevvion above. In short you CANNOT share your entire library of games with just any 10 other friends.

Interesting...I'm still curious about lending programs, but they seem to have most of the correct safeguards and allowances in place.

This is VASTLY superior to the original

messaging.

In any event, I can't wait to be wooed my Sony and Microsoft next week. I'll only grab one system initially. Microsoft's approach is super interesting, but Sony's is safe and comforting. Let the courtships begin!

This is just bad policy.

Xbox Live has gone down. Broadband connections go down all the time.

Microsoft's response to these scenarios that are more or less guaranteed to happen is to not care.

I want to see how Microsoft handles Xbox Live going down before I am willing to commit to an Xbox One purchase. They are showing their hand of caring very little about customers and more about their own business and partners.

I hope this thing crashes and burns so fucking hard that it leaves a crater bigger than the Barringer. Microsoft is absolutely disgusting for even entertaining these publishers with things like this, and the publishers that take advantage of these "perks" deserve every amount of vitriol that they'll get.

EA, Ubisoft, and Activision make their money. They've made record profits over the 360/PS3 generation. Activision remakes the same fucking game every year and makes billions off of it. I have no sympathy for any of them. Let them all burn, eventually something good could be made out of the ashes.

From what i read elsewhere MS type of game software licensing (because that's what it is) is technically illegal in europe.

Anyway arguably the biggest problem with the console reveal was the lack of focus on games and with these practices revealed you can see why, the tried to (without effort) tried to either pull the wool over our eyes with their BS it's as if they learnt nothing from the previous generation or even modern Steam.

It's finally happened but they have made console gaming into an inconvenience.

I hope Sony don't follow suit and actually read all this negative feedback because it'll make the difference of making or breaking this gen in general.

I was never a fan of the Xbox but it did start some positive trends in gaming (taken from PCs TBH) but now they have lost whatever favour they could have gained from me.

Xbone will probably sell, i won't buy it but those who already bought into the last gens probably will and general consumers won't even know what (whether it exists or not) what the problem is it's been weeks and MS have been doing nothing but clearing up their own unnecessary mess which tells me this

1. MS thought they where smarter than us that they didn't need to explain this stuff
2. MS assumed sony where doing the exact same thing so didn't finalise the details
3. They forgot their consoles sell outside of America.
4. Don't understand how steam has evolved over the years
5. Think people want a hub when digital set top boxes and Smart TVs already exist
6. Still think the Kinect is good (;))
7. Forgot the internet isn't as secure as good in reality where half their original plans where unsustainable (partly because TV owns more bandwidth)
8. underestimated how rabid gamers can be and weren't prepared for half of the questions that followed.

There's probably more but that's all i can think of, I bought the PS2 2 years after launch and the PS3 1 or 2 years after the slim, If Sony do anything like MS i won't buy their stuff either. I'll get a Wii U eventually and i enjoy PC gaming for the moment.

@kanerobot: it's 1hour with no internet access. If you go to your friend's house and log in with your own account and s/he has internet access then there is no time limit.

THIS,

I keep gaming on my current gen of consoles before I'll buy this bollocks.

@baillie: As a PC Gamer, I hold this same opinion. It actually excites me more about the Xbox One to hear that their clear push is digital games first, disk cames second. I already live in a world where I have to be online to play most of my games (League of Legends, Steam, StarCraft 2) So this makes a lot of sense to me. Knowing that I can get the games I want, day of release, right on my Xbox sounds awesome.

Should be called XBox Number Two....biiiiig heaping number two.

What he said. I buy a lot of games used from amazon marketplace, half.com, glyde, or even at garage sales. We also have a local gamerdoc (video game store) that I'm pretty sure wouldn't be a 'partnered retailer' or whatever. Seems like a big bummer. I know PC games usually have this sort of thing, so I'm hopeful they'll have good sales like Steam does, and other deals. But unless that happens, I'll probably be sticking to PC and avoiding these consoles until they go way down in price. I have 2 kids, a mortgage, etc. so I'm on a gaming budget of 20 bucks a month.

This is a very dangerous game Microsoft is playing right now. The public opinion, at least among us enthusiasts, is very obviously against these policies. But ultimately it will sell. Both new systems are probably going to struggle for at least a year until the software catches up, like most console launches. That's not the dangerous part.

The most important, critical information here is the Always On. Yes, most people have their consoles, and most all of our devices, connected to the internet almost all the time. And of course there are edge cases, that's not the point. The point is, they only have a 24 hour window to fix ANY service outtage. If the service goes offline for more than a day, every Xbox One in the world is a pretty looking, completely useless brick.

Remember when PSN died for like, over a week? Xbox Live has gone down several times as well. Those were pretty major inconveniences, but you could still play your games. They cannot afford one, single, misstep in service. 100% uptime is absolutely required, and in the real world it is absolutely impossible. This is the single most fucked up decision I've heard from a company providing these kind of services, ever.

Imagine what happens when the next Call of Duty is released and the servers get slammed, all at once, with a million (or more) verification requests. Multiplayer on those kind of games can be dodgy the first day, but at least you can play single player. If the system can't verify you own the game when you plug it in after that midnight launch, then you technically don't own it, and it won't play at all. Day one digital release of that game, and a good chunk of people are trying to download what, conservatively 8 gigs of data but with blu-rays we're talking more like 20-50 gigs? Hundreds of thousands of people trying to do that at the same time. It doesn't matter how many goddamn servers you have, at a certain point economy of scale catches up. A launch that popular could bring the whole service down across the board. That's one game example.

This is extremely, extremely dangerous territory. Publishers are the driving force here, but the technology is not at the point to reliably support it. This is the kind of thing we should be looking at NEXT next gen, and planting some seeds for now. This is too much, too fast, and nobody is ready for it. This is the kind of thing that can crash the whole industry in the worst case scenario. There's very legitimate cause for concern.

Oh, I only have to be online once every 24 hours. Thanks Microsoft, you're the greatest!

I think I'm done with console gaming if Sony implements similar policies. It's total madness, but I think Sony will actually not go through with it because they sell great in Europe, where Xbox One is going to get Xboned by the anal EU laws. And I can't wait for that to happen.

Everyone having fun overreacting???

if PS4 is the same i'm done with consoles.

Klepek sure is bent out of shape about having his interview revoked. Feeling entitled?

That's what happens when you carry a competitor's water for them and only criticize one company when the other company is doing the exact same thing. Once the enthusiast press demonstrates that they can at least pretend to act marginally like journalists and ask the same questions to both companies and hold them both accountable maybe MS will start talking to you again. You shouldn't allow GAF kids beholden to all things Playstation to dictate the narrative.

Glad someone brought that up. I've been thinking, as I'm reading the comments here, that this is going to be one of the tipping points. If they also announced that the digital store would perform similar to iTunes, where developers/publishers can change game prices almost at the drop of a hat, that would (for me at least), earn back a lot of good will. It's like they're announcing all of the parts that most people don't like, and not talking about what will offset these perceived negatives.

That's too much effort. I've pretty much had it with XBone. Even if they did a full reversal on all of these features & offered to support my 72 Xbox 360 games (bought new & used over the years), I still would be uninterested. They've lost my trust & respect & I'm totally jaded on their direction. I've already disabled the next XBL subscription so it'll lapse in October. I'm interested to see how Sony handles it or if it's more of the same. I might switch to the PS4 if the options are better.

Nobody has mentioned it in comments yet, but there was a HUGE backlash when Spore came out wrt its DRM. They had it setup so you could only install it 3 times. Amazon reviews had around 1000 1-star reviews all based on the DRM restrictions alone in just a few days time after release. As such, the game fizzled & many were just getting a pirated version of the game to play. So I'm thinking all of the DRM & tight controls over the XBone is going to fair about the same as Spore on its release day. And I don't care if the XBone gets the greatest, most exclusive game to ever come out, my time & money are important to me & I'm not going to deal with all of this EULA wrangling & game abandonment because of Microsoft say-so.

You know it almost sounds like the XBone was built by lawyers instead of game designers & I don't want to deal with it. I don't care about games that much to suffer anti-consumerism over it. I'll find other means.

Also, people are pointing out problems with Steam, such as that it doesn't offer used games. However, it offers DEEP discounts! I still remember buying the full Deus Ex: Human Revolution with DLC for < $10 late last year. I checked XBL to see if it had a sale for the DLC (since I paid full price for the game on release on the Xbox 360) & XBL was still selling that DLC for $10. To date, I have never seen a sale worth pursuing on XBL (though reports say they're giving more sales now but that's because they're abandoning the system anyway). I figure XBL for XBone will be more of the same: no sales 99% of the time, constant DLC, Day 1 DLC, having to pay for services I already pay for (like HBO Go and Netflix). It staggers the imagination and i have to ask: why am I paying for XBL?
tl;dr: In summary, whether XBone succeeds or not, I won't be a part of it.

People keep mentioning how they have made up their mind about not getting an XBO, but Sony has not revealed much about their PS4 policy. Unless these people will not be buying a new generation system at all they may want to hold back their defection.

I can't wait till next week for e3. Hopefully most of the cards will be on the table afterwards - from both Sony and MS

@hermes

You raise some interesting concerns, I honestly think the majority of them are either overblown or inconsiderate of a system that needs to remain future proof as the market evolves. Here's my take on your thoughts for what it's worth.

• Many people has limited Internet access (on monthly plans), so they can get days at the time without any Internet and the xbox will be using bandwidth just by being powered on.

The actual demographic of anyone seriously interested enough in games to pay upwards of $500 for a new console in order to play games, who also does not have access to internet for days at a time because of a limited monthly plan cannot possibly be a substantial number. The future of core games is not offline. The future needs to start sometime. Remember when 360/PS3 launched and there was no XBLA or PS Store - now you can buy digital day one on both of those consoles, it's how the industry evolves over cycles and their consoles need to remain relevant and capable within those cycles.

• Many people don't have broadband or high-speed connections

I'm sure there are some, but the fact is that the GLOBAL AVERAGE internet connection speed is 2.9Mbps and the XONE only requires a connection that is HALF that speed (1.5Mbps). Where Ethernet is not available you can still connect using mobile broadband. Again, the future needs to start sometime and I don't think the trend of Internet usage or connection speeds is getting any lower or dwindling anytime soon.

• Under some circumstances (like moving to a new house, or a issue with your provider) you can be without Internet for weeks at the time.

Really?! Are we really resorting to these insanely fringe scenarios? I mean people should be more concerned about the power going out because it happens more frequently than this scenario. Also where are you moving that it takes the cable provider weeks before they install something so you can start paying them cash money? Anytime I've moved I've had gas/electric/water/cable and internet within the first day or two at most, they can't wait to make you start paying them - plus it's really not hard to plan ahead for utilities. Do you really think console design should take "moving day gaming session" specifically into account? Is it an epidemic?!

• We are assuming its "24 hours since you where online", not "it checks your library every 24 hours". The difference is not trivial, since with an unstable connection (one that might get you disconnected sometimes) the latter implementation will affect you a lot more.

While I agree there is a big difference between those implementations, it does state that "A persistent connection is not required [...] you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console." In the latter scenario you mentioned, is it not feasible to consider that the authentication could simply happen during typical "off hours" based on your play patterns, like between 4am-5am given the "always on" nature of the system and thus eliminating your contact with the authentication at all?

• It leaves a constant burden on Microsoft part. If the architecture fails, even for a day, it would mean 100% of the xbox would become glorified movie players. Even if it doesn't fail, how long do you think Microsoft or the publisher will support the consoles and games when they decide they are obsolete?

This is a sound argument and perhaps your most grounded one. Given that Microsoft has beefed up it's server structure by 20x the current volume I'd say they are taking both functionality and security pretty seriously. They are putting the onus of a 24-hour recovery period on themselves for any failure on their part. But consider the proven stability of the current XBOX Live servers - over the past 8 years I don't think they've gone done for more than 24 hours more than once within that span. Is it as huge a deal as everyone is making it out to be? Regarding it's "sunsetting" at the end of it's life cycle, who is to say that server authentication can't be removed entirely?

• If I pirate (and sell) every single game I play and you are a loyal consumer, good for you but, in the eyes of Microsoft, we are treated the same and there is no real difference between us.

Have you traveled by airplane lately? I get this argument, I do. The major fault with it is that it panders both sides and is unrealistic simply because it implies the answer is no answer at all, which ignores a very real issue that many insist on downplaying in suggesting that piracy is not a big deal.

OK I'll step off my soapbox now. I just think that people should take this seriously, not by freaking out and assuming the worst, but by thinking practically about how these systems are TRULY affecting them, if at all, and what do they stand to gain from it in terms of a better experience in the future.

@grognard66: not just him. They cancelled the usual after-show round-table discussion, and then also went about canceling at least a few other 1:1 interviews.

That makes them look all sorts of negative. If they're being pissy about being given a hard time over bad messaging, then cancelling interviews is the most wrong way to correct that.

@ei8htbit: You know that you don't have to defend the large corporations like Microsoft, right? They have lawyers and pr-people and marketing departments to handle that. If you want pat on your head from them, just buy their box.

@yadilie: As opposed to no money every going to the publisher/developer?

I actually think the used game stuff is illegal...it seems like a clear breach of first sale doctrine to me. FSD was first established by the supreme court and has been codified as a part of US copyright law. It states, basically, that a copyright holders rights to control the sale of a copy oftheir IP ends with the first sale of the medium that the copy of the IP is stored on. It's the reason used books, libraries, and video rental stores can even exist. While there is legal confusion about how it applies to digital goods (except in Europe where it has been held by the courts to apply), it should clearly apply to disc based games.

I'm not sure how this interacts with EULAs though...I'm guess Microsoft is banking on those as a way to strip the disc owner of their rights...but am not sure that is legal...

The most interesting part about this whole thing, which was brought up in this video, is that all of this is done to support the big third party producers.

So MS isn't fully at fault here, most of the anger should be pointed at EA (Activision, etc.), as EA especially has proven to show little to no regard for its customer base.

Also, while PS4 hasn't said anything, I think it is fair to assume that they will fall in-line with similar restrictions.

As for the cabin in the woods, you'll just have to go old-school. Nothing wrong with a little SNES/N64 etc. every now and again...

Microsoft's mistake was communicating this back during their reveal. This sounds just like what Sony will likely end up doing too (e.g. create the box with the tools to block used games and let publishers decide whether they want to implement DRM or not).

That policy doesn't bother me since I don't buy used games, but a lot of people do and it's going to piss them off. However, they'll adjust by waiting for game prices to go down instead of buying immediately. This does effect me as a seller of used games, but honestly ... I'll just be even more cautious with my purchases going forward. I already have been since rental services aren't available in Canada (and haven't been for a long time).

That being said I hate the 24 online check policy because it's too short. It's not ideal and needs to be longer.

--

These issues though are the least of my worries about the new Xbox and PS4. Neither Microsoft or Sony have done enough to give me a reason to buy their console over a PC, where almost all the games I play are always available. Sony's first party offerings are good but not amazing to make me jump there. Save for Naughty Dog, they don't have a really top tier developer. Microsoft doesn't have any IPs that interest me, so going forward I'll be interested to see what they have to offer but I'm not holding my breath.

Instead of game copies you will be lending your whole console now or your account. This all doesn't solve the issue, it's way to strict, and something you buy - you should own and do with it whatever the hell you want (in terms of re-selling, lending).

It's like buying a movie on blu-ray and no-one but you can watch it, because it's you who paid for it - aka retarded.

That said, the PC market is pretty much the same, tho we get sales and shit on Steam and other services, I still can not lend or re-sell my games.

I wonder if that's part of the reason they took the trouble to point out very early on that games are installed to, and played directly from, the hard drive? Maybe they're confident in the ability to present a court case where the disc is argued to be only the method of transmission, and not where the IP gets stored?

Remember when you could play any game you bought on any console?

None of that DRM stuff sounds too horrible, and some of it is pretty much exactly what they've been doing all along, like everything being tied to a console and Gamertag. We already knew we were gonna get fucked on used games. This is a lot better than what a lot of us expected. I like how they leave some of it up to the publishers, so we can all hate on EA for brand new things.

Just fucking "haha" at anyone who was afraid of their privacy and Kinect.

I can't understand people who don't understand why this is a problem. Its a fundamental shift in console gaming changing the way things have operated since the very beginning. If the only tangible benefit is I don't need to put the disc in that does not outweigh all the headaches of having limitations put on the way I use my games and having my rights as a consumer either taken away or heavily restricted.