More Details on Rad-Sounding Baldur’s Gate Update

@Laivasse: @ArbitraryWater:

You guys! Cheesing the system for everything it's worth is 90% of the fun in the Pen and Paper version of the game! So it makes perfect sense that you'd want to do it on the computer as well. Figuring out how to get that Mage/Fighter to dual wield katanas +3 and cast haste is pretty much the meat of the game as far as I'm concerned. Making use of all those random scolls of Web and Magic Armor and whatnot are a huge component to success in D&D. That DM put that scroll of Flame Arrow there for a reason, dangit! That one guy in the next room might be weak to fire. Or not, but hey it still does damage!

The games also force you to rely on either a completely cheesy party such that you roll through everything all the time, or a well balanced one with lots of gold to res and cure the friends who don't make it to the end of the battle.

The early portions of BG1 are quite unfair though (until you start getting the fun Bhaal powers anyhow), but perhaps they will address some of the nonsense running around in the early portions of that game.

400 fixes? That sounds a lot like the same amount of fixes fan patches have addressed.

@Divina_Rex said:

anything like neverwinter knights?

This is the progenitor of NWN. Pretty much the same style of game, except for using an older version of the D&D ruleset which is more rigid and technical (looking up THAC0 should get you started ;)), and lacking some modern streamlining and usability, meaning it has lots of walking, inventory management, switching between characters for menial tasks etc.

Cross platform multiplayer in Baldurs Gate? Hell yeah.

@Divina_Rex said:

anything like neverwinter knights?

Yes.

Ugh. More Underdark, but oth nore Baldur's Gate as well, so I can't really complain too much.

anything like neverwinter knights?

@Terramagi said:

This, plus permadeath mechanics galore, pretty much assure that you aren't going to beat the game without resorting to console commands. I know I didn't - the last encounter in that game, I'm convinced, is entirely impossible without abusing game mechanics.

I was able to beat that last battle without cheating, but you're right I abused the hell out of the game mechanics.  I used ridiculous numbers of skeletal summons, webs, entangles, slows, constant haste, etc, combined with full party fire arrow spam and kiting, pausing probably hundreds of times.  I wonder what they had in mind for how you were supposed to beat that?  I felt that my expendable item hording paid off.

Aside from the summons, which were overpowered and spammy compared to other spells (not that I didn't use them all the time), that just sounds like great tactics, not 'abuse of mechanics' at all. A full archer party coupled with anti-movement magic on the enemy, micromanaged with pause? Personally I just think that's a nice example of the flexibility of combat strategy in the game, exactly how it should be played. If you found a good use for Web spells then you're already a better tactician than I was.

As you suggest, potions and consumables can change a fight. I get the feeling that a lot of people who found BG impossibly difficult just didn't realise how useful all the multicoloured drek in their backpack could be. Those of us who didn't mind making multiple attempts with different tactics/potions/scroll combos each time - plus lots of Summoned Monster spam :P - merely found the game very difficult, as opposed to impossible.

From what is known about this re-release so far, you'd be better off just getting BG1+2 and spending an hour or two getting it to run with BG1tutu and some weidu/ease of use mods. That way you get all improvements from BG2 in BG1, not just some class kits.

@Terramagi said:

I know I didn't - the last encounter in that game, I'm convinced, is entirely impossible without abusing game mechanics.

Oh, I totally cheesed that last battle with Sarevok, because it's like twice as hard as anything the rest of the game throws at you and I feel no shame in admitting it. I would argue that the difficulty in BG levels out after the first few hours and becomes comparable to the rest of the Infinity Engine catalog, not including the madness of the final battle. That is, after all the meandering fetch quests you have to do in order to avoid your character getting one-shotted by random skeletons or wolves. Ugh.

If you haven't already, you should really check out Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a bit more fair with its difficulty, as you have access to the full suite of combat actions present in D&D 3.5. Oh, it's still crazy hard, but it's based around playing smart and not so much cheesetacular summoning or whatever.

This, plus permadeath mechanics galore, pretty much assure that you aren't going to beat the game without resorting to console commands. I know I didn't - the last encounter in that game, I'm convinced, is entirely impossible without abusing game mechanics.

As somebody who bought the D&D Anthology when it was on sale and beat everything worth a damn in that 7 pack (BG1 and 2, and PS:T), I can safely say that a lot of people are going to be surprised by how goddamn HARD that game is. You are EXPECTED to save scum, especially at the start, because 1st level 2E D&D isn't really meant to be played by human beings. You basically have to avoid every encounter until you get a full party, because wolves will doubtlessly 1 shot you. This, plus permadeath mechanics galore, pretty much assure that you aren't going to beat the game without resorting to console commands. I know I didn't - the last encounter in that game, I'm convinced, is entirely impossible without abusing game mechanics.

I mean, all credit to them for holding the line and not "ruining the fun", but the fun is a harsh mistress.

Also, while it's nice to see a classic get a lick of paint and a re-release, for $20 I don't think they're adding enough for this for it to be worth the money. $10 from GOG.com (plus BG Tutu mod) is not the deal that really trumps this game... it's the £15 gamersgate.com deal for the entire D&D Anthology (BG 1 & 2 & expansions, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1 & 2 & expansions, Temple of Elemental Evil) which totally blows it out of the water.

If you're willing to trade PS:T, Icewind Dale, and some modding hassle for reliable multiplayer, widescreen and touch support out of the box, plus a few new NPCs and areas in a game already jammed full of content, well fair enough, but... well, you'd be nuts. Honestly if you're at all interested in old Infinity Engine RPGs like Baldur's Gate it makes no sense not to choose the D&D Anthology, unless you're convinced that the only way you want to play BG is on a smartphone.

EDIT: looks like the anthology is temporarily unavailable from Gamersgate but you can still get it from the Gamestop online store atm.

Personally I never had much of a problem with resting to memorise spells, even as someone who never touched pen & paper RPGs. It just meant I had to use spells sparingly and not have my mage break out the big guns in scrub encounters. If my party was taking a hammering, if I needed to rest and was having trouble doing so, then I considered that just another facet of the game's difficulty. Most times, too, it was a sign that I was in an area that I was poorly equipped/skilled for. It also heightened the atmosphere of the towns, the sense of relief and comfort you got after moving from the wilds back into civilisation.

In fact I came to the BG series completely cold and soaked up the ruleset as if it was the most natural thing in the world. While I think this will struggle on touch devices due to the massive time investment and unforgiving difficulty, I have no 'nostalgia shock' going back to Baldur's Gate. Both games still fit me like a glove and look gorgeous - I just don't have the damn time to play them again.

@ArbitraryWater said:

@Undeadpool said:

Unless they've changed the ULTRA-clunky AD&D mechanics, there is going to be a MASSIVE nostalgia shock for a lot of people. Don't get me wrong, I play this game frequently and absolutely love the plot, characters and voice-acting, but oh my GOD, the systems could not be MORE antithetical to having a good time.

2nd ed AD&D isn't that clunky. It's unintuitive and needlessly obtuse, yes, but it's no Das Schwarze Ague. Believe me, there are worse rulsets out there than one that uses the trick that smaller numbers are better and only humans can be paladins.

It's not just that, I more mean the parts that work just fine in a tabletop setting, but are horrendously out of date in a videogame. Like having to rest to restore your spells and skills, or for that matter having a limited number of spells/skills as opposed to a mana/stamina pool so that you're basically just resting after almost every encounter, even in the middle of a dungeon.

@Undeadpool said:

Unless they've changed the ULTRA-clunky AD&D mechanics, there is going to be a MASSIVE nostalgia shock for a lot of people. Don't get me wrong, I play this game frequently and absolutely love the plot, characters and voice-acting, but oh my GOD, the systems could not be MORE antithetical to having a good time.

2nd ed AD&D isn't that clunky. It's unintuitive and needlessly obtuse, yes, but it's no Das Schwarze Ague. Believe me, there are worse rulsets out there than one that uses the trick that smaller numbers are better and only humans can be paladins.

Nice. I never played this either, but I've heard so much about it that it's definitely on my list. I'll be interested to see how the tablet versions of the game shake out.

Unless they've changed the ULTRA-clunky AD&D mechanics, there is going to be a MASSIVE nostalgia shock for a lot of people. Don't get me wrong, I play this game frequently and absolutely love the plot, characters and voice-acting, but oh my GOD, the systems could not be MORE antithetical to having a good time.

Retrolicous

On one hand, this seems kinda lame given how cheap and moddable this game already is. On the other hand, if people can get into BG in 2012 because of this new release I'm ok with that. Maybe it leads to some bizarre Infinity Engine renaissance.

I'm assuming this will have full screen support + 16:9 resolution support right? I bought the Baldur's Gate collection last year and couldn't stand the 800x600 visuals.

Looking forward to this, haven't played BG1 in years.

@doobie said:

@Jimbo said:

I kinda have a feeling that BG1 isn't going to be all that well received by people who are new to it. I played it for the first time in about a decade last year and there are significant parts of how that game operates that just wouldn't be accepted by a modern audience. It'll be interesting to see how far they go to adapt it to modern expectations.

don't under estimate the modern audience jimbo, im sure there are some as clever as you

Doubtful, but that isn't what I was getting at. I mean shit like how big a part luck potentially plays in combat for the first few hours. You can fight, lose, then reload and do everything exactly the same except you win because the dice fell better for you this time. It does gradually become less of an issue as the game goes on (because the numbers get bigger), but I don't think people have any patience for that kind of thing anymore.

I really like the painted levels from the infinity engine games. they're beautiful in a way that most modern games can't match.

As long as they've fixed the ai pathfinding stuff, moving your party in the first game was horrendous.

the part I'm looking forward to is actual working multiplayer. with the original Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, I believe you have to unhook yr router to get multiplayer working, which is unacceptable.

also, here's hoping they put in the feature from bg2 where party members nudge each other aside, and the feature from throne of bhaal where the tab key highlights all the items you can pick up.

@WarlordPayne said:

They better fix the combat and the pathfinding, both were abysmal in the original.

Pathfinding was fucking awful in both games, but I always thought the combat was okay in BG1. I absolutely love the combat in BG2 though, which might still be my favourite game of all time.

You must gather your party before venturing forth.

@Sarx said:

I still see no reason why this is better than BG1 + BGtutu mod. 20 bucks for an arena mode? no thanks.

Yea, starting to think the same. And whoever has a hold on them on the software side is ruining this whole thing. The sprites stand out like a wet puppy in the desert. And the areas just look like blurry backdrops, instead of interactive environments.

And this one only takes "features" from BG2 as opposed to BGTutu which brings the entire BG1 & 2 + expansions together as a seamless experience.

I think I'll pass, but I might check it out if it ever goes 75% on steam and the mod community embraces it to fix it since the developers seem to have their hands tied.

Its on android?

Dammit now I cant NOT but a nexus 7....

What's with all the hate? "Urgh, looks like they're re-releasing one of the greatest games of all time for only 20 bucks. Arseholes." Seriously, sure you may have played it to death as I have, but better modding and modern OS compatibility combined with multiplayer that hopefully might actually work this time around? Count me in. Plus it's a great opportunity for the apparently huge number of people that didn't pick it up back in '98.

To summarise: I know you already bought the game a bunch of times and enjoy running your tutu patches, but stop being douchebags.

@jakob187: I think the benefits of Steam are pretty obvious. People are committed to the service and like to have their games in one library, rather than spread all around various developer websites or separate launching clients. I understand that buying from the developers directly is a nice way of showing some support, but I think it's also understandable why someone would want to grab it on Steam. I don't think the developers would mind, either, considering they're putting it on those services to be bought.

I still see no reason why this is better than BG1 + BGtutu mod. 20 bucks for an arena mode? no thanks.

I'll get this eventually, but I think I already own enough versions of this game.

Lol, $20.

@steveurkel said:

There was almost nothing more satisfying than taking that thick as fuck box home and installing 7 fuckin CDs. Oh god, it was such a long process and I just sat there biting my nails so excited - so god damn excited. I fought some stuff, explored a city, went outside and got ABSOLUTELY BUTT FUC K RAPED BY CUNT BANDITS AND PISS DOG WOLVES IT WAS FUCKING BULLSHIT AND NOTHING HAS MADE ME MORE UPSET IN GAMING HISTORY I SWEAR TO GOD

That is pretty much my experience with the game too. Going out of the first time means certain death. I'm hoping the enchanced edition will be better at teaching how to play or have an option for noobs like me. I love Dragon Age but the BG and IWD games are games are just too hard for me. And they take for granted that you know all the D&D rules. As someone who grew up with Final Fantasy rather than Dungeons and Dragons I can understand MP or mana and such. Just give me spells and a mana bar and I know what to do, but scrolls and spellbooks and having to sleep to use a spell again and whatnot. What kind of lazy wizard has to take a nap after every spell? common, that stuff should have a cooldown in seconds or minutes not having to sleep all night. Sorry if I offend D&D people who love BG and think I am a complete noob, but I just have never liked that system.

@kpaadet said:

@boj4ngles said:

Anybody who hasn't played it yet will probably be disappointed. The game is dated as hell. I think people can still appreciate Torment, but I seriously doubt modern audiences will enjoy BG1 or 2.

Now if they did an entire 3D remake with controls similar to Dragon Age: Origins, now that would be a hit.

I totally disagree, I think the Baldurs Gate games have aged fairly well (Im not to sure about Torment though), atleast if you know what you are going into. The way I see it, is its a much worse looking DA:O expect it have better voice acting (of the little there is), better music and a better story.

Well I've played through both BG's multiple times over the years and I'm not sure where you're coming from. There is almost zero voice acting in either game, most of the zones have ambient sounds in the background rather than music (though I admit that some of the main menu tracks are better than Dragon Age), and my own personal opinion is that the stories are not in any way exceptional. To say it is much worse looking than Dragon Age is an understatement. I don't really see how anyone could dispute that Torment has a better story simply because the quality of the writing is so much better than in BG.

I still think this whole package is a plan to get younger gamers to buy "classics" that they "need" to play. Problem is that games aren't like films, even the great ones don't usually age well. I predict most people will buy it, play one hour of it, and never pick it up again. BG1 in particular because that game requires a lot of old fashioned exploration that gamers won't be motivated to do it in the old ass infinity engine. After playing Skyrim, Dragon Age, Fable and other modern titles, they will not want to experience the pre-graphics card past.

Edit: I should have included in my initial thought on remaking BG that in addition to 3D it would need full voice acting and redone audio.

I guess this is cool news for those unfortunate few who have never played the game. As for myself, I don't see any real reason to get excited for a game I already own.

In app purchases!?

WTF!? are you fucking kidding me!?

FFFUUUUUUUUUU

played and beat the BG2 but i have never touched the first one. should be nice.

@ArbitraryWater said:

Ok. So basically they're adding what modders have accomplished over the past 15 years and then charging double. For that money, you could get both Baldur's Gate games and install mods that do the same thing. New characters are all well and good, but if they're more fleshed out than the relatively shallow characters of the first BG it's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Right on, Sandro. For people who are actually into BG already, the value proposition of this "re-release" is even worse because you lose the ability to add all those brilliant mods!

I mean, forget Tutu and all that stuff, which is great. There are some AMAZING AI mods that turn the combat into something really incredible...

There was almost nothing more satisfying than taking that thick as fuck box home and installing 7 fuckin CDs. Oh god, it was such a long process and I just sat there biting my nails so excited - so god damn excited.
  
I fought some stuff, explored a city, went outside and got ABSOLUTELY BUTT FUC K RAPED BY CUNT BANDITS AND PISS DOG WOLVES IT WAS FUCKING BULLSHIT AND NOTHING HAS MADE ME MORE UPSET IN GAMING HISTORY I SWEAR TO GOD

Glad to see this is happening, but I gotta be honest. I'd be much more excited to see BG2 get this treatment. Hope this does well and they roll through to that one next.

Jon Irenicus, son.

@boj4ngles said:

Anybody who hasn't played it yet will probably be disappointed. The game is dated as hell. I think people can still appreciate Torment, but I seriously doubt modern audiences will enjoy BG1 or 2.

Now if they did an entire 3D remake with controls similar to Dragon Age: Origins, now that would be a hit.

I totally disagree, I think the Baldurs Gate games have aged fairly well (Im not to sure about Torment though), atleast if you know what you are going into. The way I see it, is its a much worse looking DA:O expect it have better voice acting (of the little there is), better music and a better story.

They better fix the combat and the pathfinding, both were abysmal in the original.

@patrickklepek

Careful, man. This is a whole 'nother level of fantasy game. Hope you like no run button and permadeath.

I would only replay Baldur's Gate if it came with a whole new set of mechanics. The graphics aren't a big deal, but the light speed combat (when it wasn't paused) just frustrated me to no end. Not to mention the generally uninteresting nature of the melee side of the game.

@jakob187 said:

@Ravenlight: It will more than likely just be a DRM-free copy through them on their own website, much the same way that Frictional handles Amnesia and Penumbra directly through themselves in a DRM-free version as well as Steam and such.

Personally, I don't understand how ANYONE could say they've rather get the Steam, GOG, or whatever else version compared to something DIRECTLY FROM THE DEVELOPER.

@Dagbiker said:

Oh, 6 hours of aditional gameplay? In a game with only 100 hours?

I cant wait to get this on sale for 9.99.

I'm REALLY hoping this is a joke...

As for the story, I'm fucking stoked. I've been playing through BG 1 & 2 as well as ID 1 & 2 again lately, so I'm ready to get going on the Enhanced Edition already.

I already own BG1 and 2 from gog. Why would I pay 20 dollars for a game I already own when all that comes with it is 6 more hours and 3 new charactures.

It was not a comment on the quality of the original BG. In fact, quite the opposite, i don't want to spend the money because I doubt anything they add would live up to the quality of the orignal.

man i hope its not cancelled on android

This will probably sell me a new iPad.

I'm excited because I want to support something that I really enjoyed. I own the game and I do f'ing play it but I want this to be a success so hopefully they decide to support the franchise a bit more.