Nintendo Promises Future Tomodachi Games Will Be More "Inclusive"

@alexandersheen: While I will buy the game, I'm under no delusion that this game will sell well, regardless of this whole mess. That will be the deciding factor that any sequel will stay in Japan, more than this controversy.

I find it a bit ironic that Nintendo had to apologize for not having added same sex marriage in their game, while real same sex marriage is apparently still illegal in certain states in the US.

The issues that matter.

Y'all need to take a debate class. This thread is making me weep.

The most entertaining part of this thread is where people demonstrate how this could easily be solved by changing one part of one line of code in the game. Cool, I'm glad that's how games work. I wish you would have been around to get that day 1 Battlefield patch out so the game didn't crash.

@amafi said:

@patrickklepek: Their original answer was fine, only someone really looking for something to be offended at could possibly have taken that the wrong way.

Agreed, and it also comes off more honest than the second response.

More making something out of nothing, but that's what games media does, I suppose. Even on the "cool" sites.

@itwongo said: Y'all need to take a debate class. This thread is making me weep.

Well by all means, put your I-took-debate-class level skills to use and show us how it's properly done. It's not like you're taking random shots just to be a dick and pretending you're above all this, I'm sure your insightful and rock-solid position on this issue will be posted any minute now.

I apologise to those offended by my fruit salad I made for dessert last night at our dinner that had no pineapple in it. I know a lot of you enjoy pineapple, and my fruit salad was never intended to offend people of staunch pro-pineapple orientation. The reason for me not including pineapple in my fruit salad was not because I do not like pineapple, or that I think pineapple should be excluded from fruit salad, or any dessert for that matter. I just forgot to pick up a pineapple when I was grocery shopping, and for that I am deeply sorry.

The reason people were offended was that Nintendo considers the inclusion of same-sex relationships "social commentary". This seems to be entirely fair, given that it isn't social commentary to include a part of your audience in a way you can more easily relate to. This response seems far more fair, and will hopefully be the last we hear of it.

How is that ironic? I doubt the people who still want same sex marriage to be illegal in those states were crying out for Nintendo to change here. If you're implying that people shouldn't try to pressure a private company to be more inclusive because there's still bigots in power in the US, well, that's just dumb.

This all started on NeoGAF, a gaming forum. The games press ran with it when the campaign picked up steam, which is a natural thing to do. This isn't "the games media making something out of nothing" or whatever.

Because there was somewhat of an outcry over not having same sex marriage in a videogame, while it's not even legal in real life in those places. Isn't that ironic? If you (not you specifically, you in general) care so much, why not start with the real issue instead of rabbling about a virtual one?

The initial "movement" from NeoGAF was very, very different to what the video game press turned it in to.

@defaultprophet: I was going to elaborate. You said everybody, I didn't.

Quoted for truth.

Holy Jesus people.

Also, I feel like with this issue people are putting gay marriage on a pedestal that is getting a little archaic. Across the world, gay marriage is becoming accepted and legalised (and rightfully so). Apart from a few cult-ish regions of the United States, gay marriage is no longer an issue, it's a fact of life.

You know what else are facts of life? Race and Religion.

Why can't I make my Mario Christian? Why can't I make him be black? Because that's the way he was designed. And nobody fucking cares, because we know not to be prejudiced in real life.

Even if gay marriage was expressly banned in the Tomodachi Life universe, it would be an attack so tepid on such a well-represented (globally anyway) movement that frankly I don't think it's worth anybody's time to complain about.

Furthermore, it is not expressly banned, it simply doesn't exist. Should we complain about all games that omit certain civil liberties? Games that don't even allow straight marriage but do allow relationships? Why can't I get married? Why has this game creator taken my liberties away from me?

How dare they. Those devils.

From now on, I want gay marriage in every game. Nay I demand it. I have to be reminded that gay marriage exists so I don't accidentally FORGET THAT IT EXISTS IN REAL LIFE.

Just like that time I forgot that I shouldn't objectify woman or fire weapons in an airport. Boy howdy, that was an awkward flight.

Thank you video games for reminding me of the basic social principals of western society.

The line about there being "more important issues in the world, so why care about this?" is the most infuriating argument I know. There will always be more important issues in the world than what you care about, but that shouldn't stop you from caring about those "less important" issues. There's a lot of bigots in charge of the US government, on all levels, so of course there's still states where same sex marriage is no legal yet. But I'm guessing a lot of the people who care about the Nintendo thing also care about LGBT rights in general, and are trying to change this stuff in "the real world" too.

Also, for many, shining a light on what they consider ignorance in culture, be it from Disney, Nintendo etc, when it comes to this stuff is all a part of changing the consensus on this stuff. And it's clearly working, as seen by the American public's slow but steady move towards acceptance of same sex marriage and LGBT rights in general. Culture and the media being more accepting of something plays a huge part in changing people's view on issues, LGBT rights included.

That's not true at all. Across most of the Western world, maybe, but not the rest of the world.

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal

From now on, I want gay marriage in every game. Nay I demand it. I have to be reminded that gay marriage exists so I don't accidentally FORGET THAT IT EXISTS IN REAL LIFE.

Yeah, because that's what people who campaigned for this were saying...

edit: Also this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_marriage-equality_laws.svg

@amyggen: That's not really the same thing. I'm not saying something like: 'why care about how good your videogame is when people are getting slaughtered in other countries over not praising the same God'. I agree with you that those types of arguments are crazy. But this is literally the same issue. Not a different one with no connection to each other; it's the same issue, virtual and in reality. That is where my argument was based of from. Nintendo admittedly makes a somewhat dumb, but not intentionally ill-hearted comment on this stuff and they are 'the bad guy'.

You do make good points on why same sex marriage is still illegal in places and how all of this can help, but that doesn't excuse any of it and living in a country where it is the most normal thing; it makes me shake my head to all of this.

Building romantic relationships is the last thing I look for in a videogame like this, They're just dumb avatars with Microsoft Sam voices. I don't understand why people get worked up about getting married, or not able to get married in a video game. If you care so much about it, just pretend that you're married, it's not like the in-game paper officially changes your real life status as well.

They're video games, have fun. Pretend, it's what they're made for.

@zevvion: But it's all connected. A lot of people were pointing to Nintendo's "family image" when they excused the exclusion of same sex couples in the game. How Nintendo were afraid of angering the "Fox News audience" by, if not including same-sex couples because this is just a localised version of the game, but at least acknowledging that there's bound to be some problems here in the West when you don't include it.

That a lot of people in the States still regard "family image" as not including any reference to the existance of homosexuals is a big part of the problem. Making it so that it becomes normal for companies to include not straight characters and relationship when it's natural to do so will go a long way to "normalizing" people's views on these issues, especially kids growing up now. No one's saying that Nintendo should suddenly make Luigi gay or whatever straw man arguments some people in this thread (not you) come up with, but just that when you call your game a "life simulator" it's gonna raise eyebrows when you only include straight relationships.

Just like that goddamn Mass Effect ending...

Games truly aren't art when your audience demands that you change your vision and you have to feel compelled to comply.

I pretty much guarantee Nintendo aren't going to waste their time localizing anything like this again.

I find it real shitty that a company was bullied into apologizing for making a game they wanted to make. What happened to the Jeff Gerstmann creed of "not every game is for everyone / you don't have to like every game out there and thats ok." The people that just needed to have a relationship game with same sex marriage could have simply skipped this one.

I think you missed the point on this one.

Mario is a fictional character. You're correct in saying that he can be what ever the designers created for him to be in their vision, just like all fictional characters! And yes, it would be absurd to suggest that Mario should be gay, or black, or whatever.

Miis, on the other hand, are designed to be stylised representations of yourself. You have a Mii avatar tied to your 3DS, showing the owner. Your 3DS (or was it WiiU?) can try to make a stylised representation of you by taking a photo of you. They're supposed to be literal representations of you, the player.

Now, if you were black, and when it took your photo it turned you into a white dude, then you can't just say "Well Nintendo doesn't need to care, Nintendo wants everyone to be white, that's the way Nintendo designed it!" That'd be a very insensitive view for Nintendo to take, and would negate the whole point of the Mii in the first place.

In short, saying a fictional character (such as Mario) should be what ever the designers want, and not changed into a gay black lady to match the gay black lady player, is absolutely correct.

But, saying that a gay black lady player can't have a representation of herself for a system designed entirely to be direct representations of the player, and instead insisting that all gamers should fit into the race/sexuality what the game developers envision is 'normal' and with no other choices, is pretty disgusting.

@goldrock: we both know that was the laziest possible response you could have made.

@shortbreadtom: but Nintendo are a Japanese company and, with gay marriage being not only illegal in Japan but also regarded as taboo by a large portion of the population, it would indeed have been a social statement. Now I'm not saying I'm cool with that, it's fucked up, but how could one be suprised that this issue was treated the way it was with that in mind?

I think that this whole thing has been covered in a very western-centric way. It could have been used to highlight the fucked up ideals of Japan as a whole. Instead it was used to bash on Nintendo. What happened with Tomodachi Life is a symptom of a much bigger issue.

I'm not interested in getting in a fight with anyone; I'd just like to express how Nintendo's press statement affected me. This is partially copy-pasted from my comment on this article; just felt it would be applicable here, too.

As for why what Nintendo said hurt... saying that they didn't want to make "social commentary" by including gay relationships is really dehumanizing. They, like so many others, consider my sexuality to be a political statement, which is something that can be objected to or dismissed as illegitimate. I already face rejection and "other-ing" from the vast majority of the world, where I'm treated as a novelty or an abomination. The last place I expected to be told that my mere existence was social commentary and that I didn't belong in their wacky little world was Nintendo, purveyors of the "fun for everyone" mentality.

Like most of you, I grew up with a Nintendo console or two; I went through several Game Boy models, and my first home console was a Nintendo 64. I'm also autistic, and while that's become easier to manage as time went on, at the beginning, it was really hard to socialize and make friends. But Nintendo was another way into the good graces of fellow kids, so I could focus on getting good at games like Smash Bros. and find commonality with them through that. I couldn't stare straight into someone's eyes or react properly to social cues, but Nintendo games made it easier to jump into conversations about trading Pokemon or beating Star Fox, and slowly work through there. And I was pretty thankful that Nintendo helped me with my social anxiety and struggles with communication, when others would write me off as "the weird kid" without making the effort to know me.

To make a long story short (too late!), Nintendo's comments made me wonder whether I was ever welcome in the first place. Sorry if that sounds melodramatic, but it really hit me that way when I read the press release for myself. I know, Nintendo have been terrible at PR and expressing themselves in a non-bumbling manner as of late, but there was something that felt real and cold about their statement. Maybe because I've seen echoes of it in the reactions I've received from others. Regardless, of all the mistakes Nintendo have made in the last few years, it was the very first one that had me considering abandoning the company altogether.

Again, I apologize if my earlier statements sounded like they were attacking anyone. I'm just really sore about this subject, and am used to seeing everyone react in a certain way to others like me in the LGBT community. I'd like nothing more than to have a good time with all of you, and I'm grateful that most of you are much friendlier than the people I would find in other communities.

I feel bad that Nintendo is having to deal with bullshit like this. They made the game how they decided to make it (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and if that is disagreeable to you as the player then don't consume it. Very simple. I'm a longtime fan of Nintendo but I don't have a WiiU because I don't appreciate the product. This is fucking stupid.

@humanity said:

A public company made a public response to a public outcry? Bullying.

What the hell is this?

I mean are gay people really that upset that Nintendo overlooked adding this?

It should always be respected that some people don't like the idea of gay relationships. As long as they keep that to themselves. It's called being tolerant... it works both ways...

We should all calm down and accept not all games HAVE to be inclusive.

@amyggen: You make a good argument for it being in the game and it contributing to the normalization in (parts of) the US. I agree with those points and didn't mean to come across as if I didn't. I think Nintendo should do what they want and I choose to believe that they are. I somewhat doubt they purposefully excluded it from the game, and it probably moreso had to do with how they were used to start up development for a game and whatnot. Oversight, basically. Whether true or not is neither here nor there, everyone can only speculate.

I wasn't so much commenting on this specific Nintendo story as I was on the situation in general. It was only a couple of weeks ago that I learned a bunch of states in the US still don't allow same sex marriage. I guess even though it was weeks ago, I'm still surprised by it and this story is just a reminder of it. Except I see outlash here, where for years I didn't hear anything about the real issue. That's when I said: that's ironic. Of course, I'm not actively keeping up to date on US politics obviously, but this might give some insight as to why I think all of this is kind of crazy.

@defaultprophet: Is it not a valid argument? If you say no, you're lying to yourself. Either way, I'll explain what I meant.

There are people who legitimately hate gay people (like people that are actually racist and not "Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson racists"), and there are people who believe in marriage in its traditional sense. Personally, I don't care what you do behind closed doors, as long as you aren't hurting anyone. But don't tell me I can't believe in marriage being between one man and one woman only without being a gay hating bigot.

My definition of marriage goes beyond "law" and into my belief system, which is why I also disagree with polygamy (starting to work its way toward D.C.). So if I also disagree with polygamy, what specific type of person am I hating then? Unless there's a word now for being born a polygamist that I'm unaware of.. Give it time.

Anyway, I try to understand both sides in most cases arguments. And I do understand the other side in some cases. But the other side gets watered down when so many people on that side scream racism, sexism, homophobia incessantly.

I'm babbling now because I'm lacking sleep and I have a migraine. Hopefully this is readable because I'm not reading it to check it. Try to understand where I'm coming from with the marriage part.

I too don't understand why '''The Gays''' are so intolerant of my desire to see them pushed out and marginalized in every aspect of society! We heterosexuals have been laid low for far too long!!

Only too often do I go outside only to see straight people being harassed in the street for nothing more than holding hands with their partners. When I turn on the news I am SICKENED to hear yet another story of a hetero child killing themselves because of bullying or, worse yet, a wholly heterosexual man or woman being murdered merely because they wanted to mush their genitals together with someone of the opposite sex!!! And now you're telling me that I might, hypothetically, someday have to deal with a protagonist who is likely a mid-30s stubbly-bearded brown-haired white guy with a raspy voice AND ALSO A QUEER?

I am being oppressed.

Anyone saying that this game doesn't have to be inclusive and those of a different orientation don't have to play it: this article isn't relevant to you and you don't have to comment on it.

Everyone else: Criticism is fine, debate is welcome, but let's all keep it civil and don't insult each other. Anyone saying "but we are being civil" can't read all the posts we've had to remove.

And yeah, non-conducive pejoratives like "SWJ" are still going to get deleted. We haven't made it an official blanket rule yet, but try to see if you can make your point without saying "SWJ", "click-bait", "white knight" and other such dismissive terms that instantly grind any polite discussion to a halt. Treat it as a vocabulary exercise, if you'd prefer.

@goldrock: Polygamy is a choice, being gay isn't. Polyamory between consenting adults, not Polygamy in the Utah sense of child brides and such, shouldn't be discriminated against either but that's neither here nor there.

As to your point that marriage goes beyond the law for you: It doesn't matter. Marriage is so wrapped up in our legal system that only gay marriage will give the exact same protection to gay couples as straight couples. When you say you're not anti gay but are anti gay marriage what you're saying is "they can do what they want but I don't want them to have all the rights I have". The other way to solve that is to take marriage out of every law and replace it with civil union or whatever and strike the term marriage from the culture. That's not going to happen.

Your behind closed doors comment is also troubling, do you find PDA between gay people unsettling?

The biggest reason I'm disappointed that there is no same-sex relationships in the game is because I can't make Miyamoto and Mario kiss each other. WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING ME, NINTENDO?!

Still won't stop me from dressing a female Mii like Link and making him have babies with Miyamoto.

@defaultprophet: It does matter though. When a lesbian writer comes out and says the gay marriage battle is a lie made to destroy the institution of marriage on a panel titled "Why get married when you can be happy", does that not throw up a red flag of any kind? My point was that I hold my beliefs in a higher place than just our laws.

Also, I find PDA between ANY people unsettling. AS SHOULD EVERYONE. Just sayin.

Whats the point of your comment, apart from arguing for the sake of arguing, when I'm sure you're smart enough to know exactly what I mean. Thats like me saying "a company made a game that didn't include every single option to satisfy every single person? Discrimination."

that sucks that you were hurt by this, but i think you might have misread the original statement released by nintendo. given the context of the statement, i dont read ninentdo suggesting that it believes that the inclusion of same sex marriages in the game would be social commentary, but rather that the absence of non-hetero relationships was not meant to be taken as social commentary, which still might be troubling, that nintendo didnt include gay marriage in the game because it simply didnt think to, but not nearly as much as them not including the feature because of an anti-gay marriage stance.

@thecheese33: Nintendo meant that the exclusion of same-sex couples was not intended as a social commentary. The interpretation that inclusion of same-sex couples would have been a social commentary is just that: an interpretation. That the statement was unclear and lead to misunderstanding is unfortunate.

@goldrock: Yes one random lesbian writer speaks for everyone. She is clearly the mastermind or at least in on the cabal of trying to destroy the institution of marriage. The same institution that was once akin to chattel slavery and where divorcing took an order from God from his representatives on Earth. That in changing institution that has never changed throughout human history? Also when was this? Link?

Your beliefs don't trump the mistreatment of millions of people. Would you think that's a valid argument if somebody made it in favor of Jim Crow laws? Would you think that's a valid argument if you believed that women are the property of their husbands?

Quick guys: A bunch of straight white guys have spoken, this issue is over!

ITT: people who need to take a persuasive writing class

I have no qualms with people feeling hurt or offended by something that doesn't offend me personally, and I'm totally in favour of positive social change, but I do worry that should Tomodachi Life be solely known as "that game what hates the gays," that the people who play it will be guilty by association.

I just don't want to feel like I'm being scolded for enjoying something.

Could we at least agree that playing Tomodachi Life is not a form of tacit support of homophobia? I think open discussion would be a lot easier if we can start there.

@defaultprophet: This was last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJrmBocx0o4

I'm not saying she speaks for everyone, but some portion must agree. How big a portion, I have no idea. For all I know, maybe she is the westboro baptist church of lesbians.

Equating gay marriage to slavery and segregation is a road you really don't want to go down, so you should probably stop and turn around.

I also don't believe in divorce.

I haven't read through all the comments, I refuse to since everywhere has the same comments going on.

My issue isn't about same sex stuff, it's the creative freedom of a studio to make the game they envisioned.

You can either allow the studio to make the game they want or push so hard that games are made by consensus, maybe politics will get involved and legislate what they are allowed to make, coz we all want that don't we?

@goldrock: For all you know? If you honestly think she speaks for anything other than an extremely small minority... Dude do even some cursory research. Talk to a gay person.

I'm not equating the act of gay marriage to segregation or slavery, I'm comparing the logic behind your reasoning to other things that people have used the same reasoning towards. Don't kid yourself, the bible was used at the time to justify both of those.

Let's make it flippant instead: You wouldn't use "My beliefs" to justify banning skittles or the import of Nintendo games.

Also you don't believe in Divorce? Dude what

@dudeglove: They probably were listening to their audience. Considering the LGBT community is estimated to be at best in the 3-4% range here in the US. Unless Nintendo attracts an abnormally high percentage of that demographic and hardly anyone else, would it even really worth their time to include same sex relationships in their silly little fantasy game? I mean considering they certainly wouldn't be aiming for that demographic in their own nation. So why even bother adding that to the NA release?

Where's the outcry over not having transgendered or even non-binary gendered relationships in this game? Or hell, pretty much any other game? Are they not also being marginalized? Are they not also facing the exact same mistreatment as gays and lesbians? Is their non inclusion further admittance from main stream media that they would rather pretend that they don't exist? Maybe they just don't represent a large enough audience to matter?

That's what this looks like to me. An incredibly small minority whom I, like most others in this thread, agree should be treated with dignity and given the same protection of basic rights as anyone else. But I take issue with trying to force anyone creating content or media to tack on the "ME TOO!". If I created a game I would have nothing to base a gay or lesbian relationship experience on, nor would 96% of the population. Patching that shit in well after the fact, just to appease a very vocal minority, would probably be hardly worth their time and would be patronizing to boot.

(pssst, go enjoy one of the MANY other games that already have same sex couples. There'll be plenty more after this one too. Nobody gets to have every game catered to them though, sorry.)

@tomtomthepirate: Except you and I, as CIS White males(assuming), do get every game catered to us. Or at least 99.5% of them.

Nobody is calling for every game to have gay relationship options. The crux of this issue is that the main character in this game is representative of you. It's your mii. Only your gay mii has to be straight in this game.

@goldrock: I didn't make marriage some willy nilly thing, more than half of marriages ending in divorce made it some willy nilly thing that is so entrenched in our laws it affects, among other things: Taxes, burial, and visitation rights in hospitals.

How does a gay couple marrying affect your belief that marriage is important and for life exactly?

Also dude really? That shaman line is racist as hell.