Something went wrong. Try again later

Giant Bomb News

210 Comments

On Kickstarter, There Are No Guarantees

Double Fine's adventure game and Wasteland 2 make for lovely success stories, but the Kickstarter gamble isn't always full of cheers.

No Caption Provided

UPDATE: Auditorium 2: Duet hit its Kickstarter goal last night, building upon momentum from the past few days.

--

Crowd funding service Kickstarter has been good to games in recent months.

$3,336,371 went towards Double Fine's new adventure game, far above the $400,000 asking price. There's $1,600,465 and counting for inXile Entertainment to produce Wasteland 2, exceeding the original $900,000.

Philadelphia-based Cipher Prime wants $60,000 to help fund the creation of Auditorium 2: Duet, a multiplayer sequel to its well-liked music game. $60,000 is roughly half, maybe a little less, than the project’s total budget.

“We are mathematically not on track to make it,” said creative director Will Stallwood to me yesterday afternoon, only four days before Auditorium 2: Duet’s Kickstarter proposal comes to a close.

Stallwood is understandably anxious. Auditorium 2: Duet has not experienced the "Double Fine bump” that I've heard mentioned by other video game Kickstarter projects, and the studio is relying on a hail mary pass at the end.

“When we first started,” he said, “someone asked us and our analogy was ‘we basically have a month of waiting to find out if our girlfriend’s going to dump us or not.’ It’s totally how it feels.”

When we spoke yesterday, his Kickstarter was roughly $45,000--most of the way there. With Kickstarter, though, “most of the way there” isn’t enough. You need to reach the full amount, or all of that money disappears.

If Auditorium 2: Duet doesn’t reach $60,000, it wouldn’t be the first game to stumble on Kickstarter. Double Fine was not the first developer to utilize Kickstarter, but it’s definitely helped popularize the concept. Kickstarter was founded in 2008, and since, many have tried using it to get ideas off the ground. Not everyone's a success story.

Pixel Sand is one of several projects that attribute its funding success to Double Fine.
Pixel Sand is one of several projects that attribute its funding success to Double Fine.

Tony Hawk: Ride developers Robomodo tried to help fund Bodoink, a Kinect game for Xbox Live Arcade, and only raised $5,547 of $35,000. Before Borut Pfeifer was a designer on upcoming XBLA strategy game Skulls of the Shogun, he pitched a puzzle/action game set during the post-election riots in Iran. He figured it would take $15,000 to make that game--he got only $2,925.

“The biggest lesson was just that it doesn't actually solve the problems people originally (and still do but to a lesser extent) thought it would,” said Pfeifer over email.

Pfeifer pointed to how developers still have to really, really worry about presenting and pitching their idea, especially if there's not much to show for it, and they still have to answer to a group of invested individuals, which means creative autonomy is somewhat limited. It's not a perfect solution.

Plus, it’s easy to forget designers like Tim Schafer and Brian Fargo have spent a career building a reputation.

“The audience isn't necessarily any more likely to fund an idea because it's risky or innovative, it's really just if they trust you as fans of your work,” said Pfeifer.

As the hours wind down on Auditorium 2: Duet, as Stallwood begins to confront the possibility that his sequel will not get funded, his team has started to examine about what went right...and what went wrong. Even if the Kickstarter idea blows up in their face, Stallwood doesn’t necessarily regret trying it out.

“Definitely our biggest problem over here that we know, and I think we’ve always known, is getting any kind of attention is really hard, and we still don’t know how to do it,” he said. “Regardless of whether the Kickstarter fails or not, I do feel like a lot more people know who Cipher Prime is, which is really cool and super exciting.”

It’s early days for the relationship between Kickstarter and video games, however. While Cipher Prime didn’t see much help from Double Fine’s various financing spikes, another Kickstarter did.

Pixel Sand, a ridiculous physics simulation that involves dumping sand everywhere, probably wouldn’t have made it to its complete $9,000 funding without help from Double Fine, according to programmer Trevor Sundberg.

“We pretty much owe our success to Double Fine for bringing in so many supporters to Kickstarter,” said Sundberg. “All of that traffic seemed to hit right after the Double Fine project became popular.”

A week before Pixel Sand was due to cross the Kickstarter finish line, the project’s funding trajectory suggested it would only make around $2,000. 24 hours before funding closed, the game neared $12,000. 68% of its contributors came from individuals just browsing the Kickstarter website, a mix of people who’d meandered from the Double Fine Kickstarter and others poking around the games section, which Sundberg also attributed to Double Fine.

Pixel Sand's final total? $13, 616.

Between Double Fine and inXile, Kickstarter appears to be fertile ground for reviving long forgotten concepts, genres and franchises. It’s unclear how many more fans will continue to financially rally behind old games, but Big Finish Games will try to revive fumbling detective Tex Murphy starting in May.

Tex Murphy is the latest dead franchise seeking life on Kickstarter, but how long will this last?
Tex Murphy is the latest dead franchise seeking life on Kickstarter, but how long will this last?

Big Finish co-founder Chris Jones, who also happens to play the usually tipsy Tex Murphy, told me this presented itself as the best way to finally, possibly bring the character back. There were chances for Tex Murphy to return in the past, but it never happened, and eventually Jones felt like fans deserved closure. The last game ended on a mean cliffhanger, and fans have been waiting since.

Kickstarter seemed like a way to gauge fan interest, and possibly elevate what Jones described as a “modest” design for another Tex Murphy game into something much bigger.

“When we saw the success of Double Fine [on Kickstarter],” he said, “what that really showed more than anything was there really is an interest in this genre, whether publishers believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there who really have liked this style of game, and enjoy playing the adventure style, and there may be a big enough group out there that would continue to support it.”

If there isn’t, it’s also the best way to find out if it’s time to move on, and possibly let Tex Murphy go.

A full day had passed between writing this and my conversation with Stallwood about Auditorium 2: Duet's fate. Since then, the Kickstarter has earned another $6,000, bringing the total to $52,801. There’s $9,000 to go.

“With the bump last night, we could possibly reach our goal,” he said. “We feel like throwing up in anticipation, but we're incredibly hopeful. Regardless of the outcome, I think we have some of the worlds best fans and an amazing support community in Philly. Getting close to our goal after all this time is giving us a ton of feelings both scary and happy.”

With three days left, here's where Auditorium 2: Duet stands. The countdown begins.

No Caption Provided
Patrick Klepek on Google+

210 Comments

Avatar image for redravn
RedRavN

418

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By RedRavN

I think its too early to really see how kickstarter pans out in the long run. I wonder just how much the promotional and viral aspect contributes to sucess. I'm sure reputation and a core following does not hurt either. I don't see it as much of a risk for a developer to try kickstarter because they do not have much of an expense if they fail. If they suceed thats great they get the money but if they don't then its not going to be a huge cost to them. I would love to see a large development teamfund a AAA game through kickstarter.

Avatar image for viking_funeral
viking_funeral

2881

Forum Posts

57

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

Edited By viking_funeral

“The audience isn't necessarily any more likely to fund an idea because it's risky or innovative, it's really just if they trust you as fans of your work,” said Pfeifer.

Well, that about sums it up. If you don't have that history, you really have to put together one heck of a pitch to make me believe that you can get the project done.

The sad thing is I would donate to a Chris Avellone project in a second, even with the brilliant but tragic history.

Avatar image for bisonhero
BisonHero

12791

Forum Posts

625

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

Edited By BisonHero

@SeriouslyNow said:

@ArbitraryWater said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

Why did you not mention TakeDown, Patrick?

Honestly this. It seems clear that they will probably not make their goal, though that's more from it being super vague and nebulous for most of its lifespan before they actually hunkered down and turned it into a pitch-able concept. Also they made a great video that accompanies that.

It doesn't deserve positive attention. The guy's not even giving copies away to any investors and he's even charging people to submit assets and a logo. Fuck that.

What are you talking about? If you pledge $15 or more, you get "the finished full game, via digital distribution when it's released", according to the Kickstarter page.

Avatar image for kartanaold
kartanaold

223

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By kartanaold

I pay so that the game gets made and then again for the game if it comes out... and I don't even get some money if the game is a success?! WHAAAAT? Lol! ;)

Avatar image for pekoe212
pekoe212

536

Forum Posts

9

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By pekoe212

@tourgen said:

looks like it's totally working as intended to me.

If your game isn't interesting and people don't want a sequel .. well it won't get funded.

If you are a newcomer and don't have enough to show to give people confidence you will deliver something worth playing .. it won't get funded.

You still have to market your product.

You still have to make something worth playing.

Now you have another funding source other than self-funded, publisher, or panhandling.

Avatar image for a5ehren
a5ehren

63

Forum Posts

11

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By a5ehren

@Krystal_Sackful said:

If you want to see a game Kick Starter that is destined for failure, check this out: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/120873716/your-world?ref=live

I am totally flabbergasted as to what this guy's expectations were.

Wow. $1.1 Mil? I'm guessing the two people who pledged $10K aren't really going to pay up.

Avatar image for skald
Skald

4450

Forum Posts

621

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 7

Edited By Skald

It's a shame. I funded Auditorium 2 fairly early on, because I liked the first game, but it's always been a bit of a dark horse.

Oh well, at least The Banner Saga got it's funding. Now that game looks really special.

Avatar image for mrgtd
MrGtD

487

Forum Posts

98

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

Edited By MrGtD

The Binary Saga or whatever did just fine. Maybe there is some pedigree there that I'm missing.

Avatar image for psychedelicet
PsychedelicET

124

Forum Posts

166

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

Edited By PsychedelicET

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but another successful Kickstarter game project was Cognition, an adventure game that has some degree of its creative direction coming from Gabriel Knight designer Jane Jenson. It happened around mid-December of 2011 - they wanted to raise $25,000 and ended up raising more than $34,000. If you have a dedicated fan-base this type of funding can work, I think. I am hopeful this makes the Tex Murphy Kickstarter a success in the future.

Avatar image for icecreamjones
Icecreamjones

428

Forum Posts

392

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Icecreamjones

In hindsight I'd rather have spent the $60 I spent on Mass Effect 3 on possibly funding two bold, original games that may otherwise not happen. There's a chance they'll fail but I'd rather something new than something the same as usual..

Avatar image for krystal_sackful
Krystal_Sackful

804

Forum Posts

504

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Krystal_Sackful

@a5ehren:

Both of them were jokes. There is a 0% chance in my mind that those were legitimate.

Also the guy that started the Kickstarter won millions dollars in the lottery, so asking for even more money is stupid and insulting.

Avatar image for mnzy
mnzy

3047

Forum Posts

147

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By mnzy

It's like Tim Schafer said: you need a good story for your pitch. Doesn't matter if it's to the backers or a publisher. 
Their story of him making another adventure that the evil publishers don't want to fund is great. And so is Wasteland 2. 
 
Some of these other projects, though...

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

Edited By Hailinel
@gladspooky

This is how it's supposed to work. You let the people decide, sometimes they'll decide your project isn't good enough.

Pretty much. Anyone that thought Kickstarter would spark a revolution in game development was fooling themselves.
Avatar image for bonecollecta
BoneCollecta

14

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By BoneCollecta

A Philly based studio needs my help? Let's do this!

Avatar image for icecreamjones
Icecreamjones

428

Forum Posts

392

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Icecreamjones

@Hailinel said:

@gladspooky

This is how it's supposed to work. You let the people decide, sometimes they'll decide your project isn't good enough.

Pretty much. Anyone that thought Kickstarter would spark a revolution in game development was fooling themselves.

It's still very much a revolution, just not anywhere near as big of one as people (the media mostly) were screaming for. Never before have gamers been so directly involved in making games they want made happen. It's heartbreaking I'm sure for people who don't make it, but nothing's necessarily stopping them from trying again.

It is a new way of doing things but it is not going to be the way of doing things.

Avatar image for patrickklepek
patrickklepek

6835

Forum Posts

1300

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By patrickklepek

@ArbitraryWater said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

Why did you not mention TakeDown, Patrick?

Honestly this. It seems clear that they will probably not make their goal, though that's more from it being super vague and nebulous for most of its lifespan before they actually hunkered down and turned it into a pitch-able concept. Also they made a great video that accompanies that.

I can't mention every Kickstarter, sorry. Maybe we can start a thread on the boards with interesting ones?

Avatar image for sin13
sin13

275

Forum Posts

214

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By sin13

I'm interested in Auditorium 2, but I'd rather have an iPad version than a PC copy.

Avatar image for saturdaynightspecials
SaturdayNightSpecials

2593

Forum Posts

92938

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 26

Well, of course not every idea is going to get people interested enough to back it. The projects that Kickstarter seems to be most powerful for are ones that get gamers excited, but are too niche for most publishers to take on. Like a new Wasteland game, or an old-school graphic adventure.

A "puzzle/action game set during the post-election riots in Iran" honestly sounds kind of dumb on the surface, so I'm not surprised it didn't succeed. You want something that sounds great just from describing it in one sentence.

Avatar image for subyman
subyman

729

Forum Posts

2719

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

Edited By subyman

I'm surprised the SEC hasn't focused on Kickstarter yet. Crowdfunding is illegal in the US with very few exemptions. Kickstarter gets around this because the people funding the project do not gain ownership of the product or company. You pretty much pay upfront for the possibility of getting some SWAG in the future, without any guarantees. It is an interesting way to get around regulations, but if it ends up becoming a big thing then get ready for the government to focus attention to it.

Avatar image for prestonhedges
prestonhedges

1961

Forum Posts

42

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By prestonhedges

@zeekthegeek said:

@Hailinel said:

@gladspooky

This is how it's supposed to work. You let the people decide, sometimes they'll decide your project isn't good enough.

Pretty much. Anyone that thought Kickstarter would spark a revolution in game development was fooling themselves.

It's still very much a revolution, just not anywhere near as big of one as people (the media mostly) were screaming for. Never before have gamers been so directly involved in making games they want made happen. It's heartbreaking I'm sure for people who don't make it, but nothing's necessarily stopping them from trying again.

It is a new way of doing things but it is not going to be the way of doing things.

It's pretty cool, yeah, and hopefully the coverage is turning and people will stop asking "Is Mass Effect 4 going to be funded by Kickstarter?!" and realize that big game studios attract funding because their projects usually make money. Even if they tried to go publicly-funded, ad-men and business investors would still be breathing down their door for a piece of it.

But it's cool. Especially for dead franchises/genres and well-thought-out indie projects that might not otherwise get funded. Hopefully Kickstarter sticks around. Or gets replaced by something even better.

Avatar image for crimsonnoir
CrimsonNoir

440

Forum Posts

20

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 15

Edited By CrimsonNoir
@SeriouslyNow said:
@LordCmdrStryker said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@AlexW00d said:
To reiterate the point made in this article, something like Kickstarter was never gonna help the little guy who couldn't get a publishing deal/funding to make the game he wanted to make, and it was only ever going to help the big names who people already know and who could easily fund their own game or gain a publishing deal easily. Double Fine should donate all that extra money to all these kickstarters that actually need kickstarting.
Yeah, I agree but when I said that I was shouted down by people who complained that they didn't want their money going to other projects. It's funny though because Brian Fargo agrees with us too.

Brian Fargo wants to put back a percentage of the proceeds after the project is finished, not before.

Who cares?  The money still goes to other projects which will need it and that can only be a good thing.
Uh, I care.  I'm not paying Double Fine so Auditorium 2 can get made, I want them to use the money they're getting for this project on this project. If I want to support other indie devs than I would have done so.
Avatar image for thehumandove
TheHumanDove

2520

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By TheHumanDove

I'm going to start up a kickstarter.

Avatar image for kamikaze_tutor
kamikaze_tutor

163

Forum Posts

37

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By kamikaze_tutor

I really can't support this cause.

Those guys from Cipher Prime present themselves like having enough money for a reiteration of a previously developed game. They're not taking any risks, it sounds like they want to make the same game again, with extra features like co op.

But the big question is, wasn't the first Auditorium profitable enough to cover the costs for a sequel? Then why make another one if the original game wasn't a commercial success?

Sincerely, if you you're asking for money, don't do it while sitting on your mini bike. Actually, why don't you go ahead and sell it to back the rest of the project?

Avatar image for xpgamer7
xpgamer7

2488

Forum Posts

148

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 5

Edited By xpgamer7

I still think we've yet to hit the rise. People are only considering kickstarter and testing the water. If it keeps at this rate we'll see a lot more soon. Of course I'll support games I believe in if I can regardless.

Avatar image for charlessahara
CharlesSahara

357

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

Edited By CharlesSahara

@CrimsonNoir said:

@SeriouslyNow said:
@LordCmdrStryker said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@AlexW00d said:
To reiterate the point made in this article, something like Kickstarter was never gonna help the little guy who couldn't get a publishing deal/funding to make the game he wanted to make, and it was only ever going to help the big names who people already know and who could easily fund their own game or gain a publishing deal easily. Double Fine should donate all that extra money to all these kickstarters that actually need kickstarting.
Yeah, I agree but when I said that I was shouted down by people who complained that they didn't want their money going to other projects. It's funny though because Brian Fargo agrees with us too.

Brian Fargo wants to put back a percentage of the proceeds after the project is finished, not before.

Who cares? The money still goes to other projects which will need it and that can only be a good thing.
Uh, I care. I'm not paying Double Fine so Auditorium 2 can get made, I want them to use the money they're getting for this project on this project. If I want to support other indie devs than I would have done so.

Yeah, I want my money going where I say it goes.

Avatar image for kamikaze_tutor
kamikaze_tutor

163

Forum Posts

37

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By kamikaze_tutor

@Chaddicus said:

@CrimsonNoir said:

@SeriouslyNow said:
@LordCmdrStryker said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@AlexW00d said:
To reiterate the point made in this article, something like Kickstarter was never gonna help the little guy who couldn't get a publishing deal/funding to make the game he wanted to make, and it was only ever going to help the big names who people already know and who could easily fund their own game or gain a publishing deal easily. Double Fine should donate all that extra money to all these kickstarters that actually need kickstarting.
Yeah, I agree but when I said that I was shouted down by people who complained that they didn't want their money going to other projects. It's funny though because Brian Fargo agrees with us too.

Brian Fargo wants to put back a percentage of the proceeds after the project is finished, not before.

Who cares? The money still goes to other projects which will need it and that can only be a good thing.
Uh, I care. I'm not paying Double Fine so Auditorium 2 can get made, I want them to use the money they're getting for this project on this project. If I want to support other indie devs than I would have done so.

Yeah, I want my money going where I say it goes.

Calm down, mates. They choose what to do with those profits, and they're letting you know upfront that a percentage will go to another ventures like these. They're not messing with the money you give them, those are not profit, those are funds.

Avatar image for younglink
YOUNGLINK

641

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By YOUNGLINK

Good article Patrick. I think Auditorium 2 will hit its goal because of this article.

Avatar image for ronald
Ronald

1578

Forum Posts

28

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

Edited By Ronald

And now Auditorim 2 is at $56,000. The Klepek Effect?

Avatar image for charlessahara
CharlesSahara

357

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

Edited By CharlesSahara

@Kamikaze_Tutor said:

@Chaddicus said:

@CrimsonNoir said:

@SeriouslyNow said:
@LordCmdrStryker said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@AlexW00d said:
To reiterate the point made in this article, something like Kickstarter was never gonna help the little guy who couldn't get a publishing deal/funding to make the game he wanted to make, and it was only ever going to help the big names who people already know and who could easily fund their own game or gain a publishing deal easily. Double Fine should donate all that extra money to all these kickstarters that actually need kickstarting.
Yeah, I agree but when I said that I was shouted down by people who complained that they didn't want their money going to other projects. It's funny though because Brian Fargo agrees with us too.

Brian Fargo wants to put back a percentage of the proceeds after the project is finished, not before.

Who cares? The money still goes to other projects which will need it and that can only be a good thing.
Uh, I care. I'm not paying Double Fine so Auditorium 2 can get made, I want them to use the money they're getting for this project on this project. If I want to support other indie devs than I would have done so.

Yeah, I want my money going where I say it goes.

Calm down, mates. They choose what to do with those profits, and they're letting you know upfront that a percentage will go to another ventures like these. They're not messing with the money you give them, those are not profit, those are funds.

Ah, profits. Well, good. I don't care what they do with their profits from selling the game. I just expect that what I fund them is spent on their own game.

Avatar image for kyle
Kyle

2383

Forum Posts

6307

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 12

Edited By Kyle

I liked Auditorium a lot. I hope the sequel gets funded!

Avatar image for toma
TomA

2787

Forum Posts

188

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By TomA

I love the fact that you can tell which stories are Patrick stories just based on the name:) I love them.

Avatar image for mandude
mandude

2835

Forum Posts

3

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By mandude

Can you write an article about my Kickstarter project now?

Avatar image for sooty
Sooty

8193

Forum Posts

306

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 3

Edited By Sooty

I'll tell you what I can guarantee, an over-abundance of Kickstarter projects.

Avatar image for nervecenter
nERVEcenter

204

Forum Posts

6

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By nERVEcenter

@EmuLeader: But that's all it ever is, is a spike. Any time huge attention is drawn to something by a celebrity or respected figure, people tend to get bored of it very fast, especially when it involves them throwing their own money around to stay engaged.

Avatar image for jellotek
jellotek

70

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By jellotek

I love Auditorium, but what I really would like to get my hands on is the soundtrack... which isn't a reward until 80 dollars. Unfortunately, the most I could ever see myself spending on a game like this is $15.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e49e9175da37
deactivated-5e49e9175da37

10812

Forum Posts

782

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 14

I didn't put money into the crazy music visualizer game because there are a metric fuckton of crazy music visualizer games and I don't play crazy music visualizer games. I put money into a post-apocalyptic RPG and a mature strategy game with an incredible art style and a space age rogue like game because those are the kind of games I play.

I don't play physics puzzlers. There's an endless amount of those on Steam. I like good writing. Give me something with some writing.

Avatar image for pinworm45
Pinworm45

4069

Forum Posts

350

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Pinworm45

The idea of investing in a company or product with no equity rubs me the wrong way, nomatter how small the amount is. I just picture Kevin O'Leary shaking his head at me in shame.

Avatar image for falling_fast
falling_fast

2905

Forum Posts

189

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

Edited By falling_fast

I've never even heard of those failed games. they sound um, boring.

Avatar image for coaxmetal
coaxmetal

1835

Forum Posts

855

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By coaxmetal

I think that kickstarter will continue to be a viable option, but only for developers/titles that have a reputation to trade on. The reason doublefine got so much is because its doublefine, and tim schafer. Same with wasteland, Both the game itself and Brian Fargo have a good reputation to trade on. Indie start-ups, on the other hand, don't, and so naturally do not attract the attention and number of donors that others do.

Still, if the set a low goal, the might be able to get at least part of the budget they need, making them less beholden to conventional investors.

Avatar image for vitor
vitor

3088

Forum Posts

51

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By vitor

@dvorak said:

There's a lot of things that are super shady about how Kickstarter funding works. The originators could easily use the super high end donation brackets as ways to end up getting their money even if they don't actually meet their goals. I've watched a couple game Kickstarters (In Profundis for example) minutes before the end get a huge donation jump. We're talking like 30% of the required funding to 100% in a couple hours. Every other site is reporting on that tactical shooter that's not meeting the mark, so you could watch that one.

Even still, buying into your own Kickstarter isn't even really against the rules. Kickstarters aren't investments, and they aren't binding contracts. It is what it is, and I love the idea, but at some point there's going to be a serious expose on how people are abusing it. It's just a matter of time.

Really what is just a matter of time though is someone taking the Kickstarter model and making a gaming-centric version of it, or even just developers directly running a similar program. It's a hell of a thing, that's for sure, but we're really only at the birth of this whole concept. It's like 1997 eBay right here.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. There are some serious issues behind the whole system, and the ability to 'cheat' your customers into getting more than enough money seems a little too easy. Then again, if someone believes that their $30 pledge is more than worth it for the offered rewards, then who's to argue against them getting their money's worth?

They do need to tighten things up though once this continues to get bigger and bigger.

Avatar image for branthog
Branthog

5777

Forum Posts

1014

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

Edited By Branthog

Patrick, a LOT of games stumble on Kickstarter.

Anyway, the problem is that there are too many game related kickstarters launching right now. It is an entirely valid way to reach an audience and for projects that are too niche for wide distribution but indeed have an audience to have a chance. It helps devs and gamers alike to both get what they need. Not all of them will succeed. Some people ask for absurd amounts of money. Some have nothing to back themselves up (if you have nothing to demo and all you have is two sketches and a name and not even a video or a history in making games, you're not going to get $300k). Others are having a hard time getting themselves together -- because this is a new area. So they're learning. If they fail this time, they'll likely make it next time.

But, again, the biggest problem is that there are just so many people doing it right now. Everything from that jackass who wants 1.1m to make the world's greatest MMO but has never made so much as a dinky flash game before to every little mom and pop wannabe dev to a number of larger ones.

Kickstarter needs to space these out more. They benefit from these succeeding (they take 5% of the funding). Especially with the rush of people wanting to get on the train right now, they need to slow it down. Instead of several game kickstarters launching every day (which they do), they should limit it to one, for awhile. Let things balance out. If they don't they risk flooding the engine. Both in terms of the crowd available to contribute to kickstarters and in the interest of developers to give it a shot.

My best advice (as someone who has funded dozens of kickstarters to the tune of a few thousand bucks so far) is for developers to take a deep breath. Really think their project through. Have as much to show for it as possible. Have a nice graphic. Produce a decent quality video. Have some examples of your game or former games. Have a clear definition of what you're going to do. Have your rewards/pledges pretty much figured out (so it doesn't turn into a confusing mess two weeks in when you've messed with them a thousand times). Even better, do something like the Zpocalypse board game (a hugely successful project, so far) is doing and have rewards that unlock for everyone as the overall amount raised increases.

I think that there are going to be some people making a good living as "kickstarter advisors", soon. They'll advise aspiring kickstarter projects, maybe even run them, manage the social networking and interviewing and press release process, help you come up with your videos and rewards levels and make everything look very appealing to the people you're asking to buy your product from ahead of time.

Avatar image for branthog
Branthog

5777

Forum Posts

1014

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

Edited By Branthog

@subyman said:

I'm surprised the SEC hasn't focused on Kickstarter yet. Crowdfunding is illegal in the US with very few exemptions. Kickstarter gets around this because the people funding the project do not gain ownership of the product or company. You pretty much pay upfront for the possibility of getting some SWAG in the future, without any guarantees. It is an interesting way to get around regulations, but if it ends up becoming a big thing then get ready for the government to focus attention to it.

There's a few inaccurate things there. First, the SEC would have absolutely nothing to do with this, because these companies and devs aren't selling securities. Yes, you can't just make a bunch of stocks on the back of 3x5 index cards and go around selling shares of your company, but you can absolutely do crowd-sourcing, because you're asking people to buy things and then you're going to go make those things for people and give it to them.

I have no guarantee that when I commission an artist to sculpt something for me that I'll get it or that I'll like it. I have absolutely no guarantee that when a company starts taking orders for a product that will be out of manufacturing in six months that they won't hit some glitch and have to just shut down and go bankrupt and I'll be fucked.

Kickstarter, in essence, isn't anything new and it doesn't do anything unusual. And, yes, eventually one or more of them will do terribly and everyone will get burned. Just like in a lot of other financial "money for a product" exchanges. There are also a ton of successes. Go look at all the successful products that have launched via Kickstarter.

The key is to be careful who you give your money to. I trust Double Fine with 3.5m (especially with my tiny share of it). I trust this girl with her amazing little 30hr JRPG-style American History game with my $7. I trust the Auditorium guys with my $20. I trust Rusel DeMaria with my $600 for his book. However, there are some people on there with interesting concepts, but little to show for themselves (they're not part of an indie dev, they haven't made any games before, and they don't even have an early piece of work to show off from the project so far) and they're not likely to get even $5 from me (or, sometimes, they might). In most cases, I consider the fact that there's always the risk I might lose what I'm sticking in. So I don't give $500 to the kid who says "I wanna make an MMO". Easy enough.

Seriously, though, people are just freaking out all over the place about Kickstarter in a negative way right now. It's like old people reacting to evil videogames. Or older people reactive to evil rock and roll. Or even super older people reactive to evil movies/television.

Avatar image for omghisam
omghisam

328

Forum Posts

1315

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 12

Edited By omghisam

Oh hey, advocacy disguised as a news story.

Avatar image for crusader8463
crusader8463

14850

Forum Posts

4290

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 5

Edited By crusader8463

After the doublefine success there was an explosion of me too's trying to ride the coat tails. I think anyone trying to do it now is going to need something mind blowing as I think most people are burned out on the idea; especially when it's going to be the better part of one to two years before we see any of these games. If I were someone I would try to wait a good 6-8 months atleast, to give people a chance to get some money coming in again.

Personally, I threw in $50 for The Banner Saga because I loved everything about the games concept and the amazing looking poster you get with it. Other than that though, the only other one I went in for was FTL, and that was just for the minimum amount I needed to get the game.

Avatar image for daroki
Daroki

772

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Edited By Daroki

@YOUNGLINK said:

Good article Patrick. I think Auditorium 2 will hit its goal because of this article.

It's over $58K now so that should be a pretty safe bet. So the article generated part of a $7K boost? Did someone else mention it on a blog or something on Sunday since it picked up another $8-$9K boost then too?

Avatar image for raikoh05
raikoh05

479

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 16

Edited By raikoh05

pro tip: make your kickstarter videos more like the wasteland and double fine adventure videos on your page, preferrably funny.

Avatar image for metalsnakezero
metalsnakezero

2884

Forum Posts

113

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

Edited By metalsnakezero

Kickstarter is a nice way to start something but it isn't going to get rid of publishers or really help those that aren't being asked by fans for. There is a voice actor who is setting up a project for some music video and she was able to get above her asking price because people had interest it. I believe that Kickstarter will really work if people really do demand it.

Avatar image for branthog
Branthog

5777

Forum Posts

1014

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

Edited By Branthog

@Riboflavin said:

I think that kickstarter will continue to be a viable option, but only for developers/titles that have a reputation to trade on. The reason doublefine got so much is because its doublefine, and tim schafer. Same with wasteland, Both the game itself and Brian Fargo have a good reputation to trade on. Indie start-ups, on the other hand, don't, and so naturally do not attract the attention and number of donors that others do.

Still, if the set a low goal, the might be able to get at least part of the budget they need, making them less beholden to conventional investors.

Not necessarily. There are a LOT of smaller projects by nobodies that have been successfully funded. The key is they're not asking for ridiculous amounts. Look for "Americana Dawn". A college girl making a JRPG style game centered around American History. She asked for around $2,500 to help pay the debts she already had from producing the game so far (music, artwork, animation, etc). It's almost about to end and she has more than $4,000. There's also a guy who wanted something like a thousand bucks to help finish his Spore-esque (but with actual evolution) game based around bacteria eating and evolving (he is a university biology student) who doubled his goal.

What makes a kickstarter interesting and worth the risk is fairly nebulous. Trust, reputation, work-to-show-for-it-already, presentation, amount being asked for, popularity for the concept in question. You need just the right mix and you'll do pretty well. Some still fail even if they have the right mix, but part of that is due to the over-saturation right now and another part of that is just due to their lack of experience. Give them another run at it in a month and the fails will see a lot of recoveries.

And, of course, people need to remember that there are a lot of projects that have nothing to do with videogames. There are tons of card games, table top RPGs, board games, books, movies, web-shows, technological inventions. There's a project for you being able to build yourself a much cheaper version of a CNC machine. Some that have to do with electronic components for building things - where maybe some guy has devised an affordable and awesome kit to add high-refresh-rate and high-resolution LED displays to your device. And there are people wanting to put on plays, put out an album, open a food cart, make hand made pottery. All sorts of things. And a ton of them succeed everyday.

Anyway, back to the indie thing. For every Brian Fargo and Tim Schaffer, there are a fifty one-man-shops or small (2-10 member) indie devs succeeding on Kickstarter these days. I check in on a daily basis and fund several dozen of them, so I see how they're doing and how frequently they're succeeding. Overall, most do well.

Avatar image for branthog
Branthog

5777

Forum Posts

1014

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

Edited By Branthog

@Chaddicus said:

@CrimsonNoir said:

@SeriouslyNow said:
@LordCmdrStryker said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@AlexW00d said:
To reiterate the point made in this article, something like Kickstarter was never gonna help the little guy who couldn't get a publishing deal/funding to make the game he wanted to make, and it was only ever going to help the big names who people already know and who could easily fund their own game or gain a publishing deal easily. Double Fine should donate all that extra money to all these kickstarters that actually need kickstarting.
Yeah, I agree but when I said that I was shouted down by people who complained that they didn't want their money going to other projects. It's funny though because Brian Fargo agrees with us too.

Brian Fargo wants to put back a percentage of the proceeds after the project is finished, not before.

Who cares? The money still goes to other projects which will need it and that can only be a good thing.
Uh, I care. I'm not paying Double Fine so Auditorium 2 can get made, I want them to use the money they're getting for this project on this project. If I want to support other indie devs than I would have done so.

Yeah, I want my money going where I say it goes.

Huh? How is it your money? Are you saying that after Tim Schaffer and Brian Fargo give you the video game that you paid for and then they go on to sell a lot more copies of that game and make a million dollars profit, you want to control what their company is allowed to do with that million dollars? On what planet does that seem reasonable? You may be investing emotionally in the outcome of a project, but other than the products/swag/experiences you're directly pledging to get in return, you have no financial stake in the company or the profits of any of these.

That a number of projects are jumping on board the "if we make any profit, 5% of it will go back to helping other people's projects" is really awesome. Imagine if non-indie projects did that? "Hey, we're going to give 5% of COD profits back to the indie dev world". I mean, holy shit. That'd be amazing. And that it's the little guys doing this shows what good sports they are and that they ultimately care about videogames themselves.

Avatar image for biggnife
BiggNife

122

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By BiggNife

@Tim_the_Corsair: Except that the bubble clearly hasn't burst yet, and probably won't for quite some time. As of right now, it looks super-likely that Auditorium Duet is going to reach its goal (it's currently at $58,161), and even if it didn't, a few failures certainly doesn't signal the end of Kickstarter. I'm very willing to bet the Tex Murphy KS will reach its goal, too.