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Our Internet Empathy Problem

The disappearance of Flappy Bird has prompted streams of harassment and death threats. There are no consequences for the most vile of harassment on the Internet. This has to change.

We don't just have a game culture problem, we have an Internet culture problem.

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Today, we have a better understanding of why Flappy Bird developer Dong Nguyen decided his game should no longer be available on the App Store: addiction. An interview with Forbes revealed the developer's insecurity with how people played it.

"I think it has become a problem," said Nguyen. "To solve that problem, it’s best to take down Flappy Bird. It’s gone forever.”

Until this morning, his motivations were the source of speculation. (I suspect this will continue to be the case.) It might have been the accusations of theft, it might have been the overwhelming spotlight success brings, and it might have been the torrent of abuse that was spewing forth on his Twitter feed. It might have been a combination of all three or none of the above. There are even some who theorize the virality was faked.

It doesn't actually matter. Even if Nguyen removed the game for reasons he won't disclose, reasons far less altruistic than protecting players from themselves, we can still read what has been said about him and to him.

On Sunday afternoon, I became aware of a custom Twitter list that collected some of the horrendous, awful words that had been targeted at Nguyen in the past few days. Many of them were death threats, some merely promised violence, and others shouted obscenities at the top of their digital lungs. Much of it was unequivocally abuse and deeply unsettling. Whether or not these comments impacted Nguyen doesn't change the fact that they exist. The sheer volume of abuse suggests much of the Internet populace believes there is no consequence for threats conveyed via Twitter or otherwise. There's good reason for that: they're right.

Amanda Hess' "Why Women Aren't Welcome on the Internet" article, for example, is an excellent and deeply applicable source on how much difficulty our modern legal and security infrastructures have dealing with the evolution of harassment. The tools of harassers are deeply embedded into the fabric of the Internet. Empowerment of the user is king. Unfortunately, it comes at all costs to the victims on the receiving end.

Here are a few examples of what was directed at Nguyen:

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Weirdly, much of the vitriol targeted at Nguyen may come from a deep misunderstanding of what's happening to Flappy Bird. It is not being erased from every iPhone and iPad. While Apple does have a "kill switch" that would allow the company to remotely nuke a piece of software from all of its devices, it has never deployed the "kill switch." It's reserved for malware and other havoc-inducing apps. (For example, developers who have snuck emulators onto the App Store hidden have not seen their apps forcefully removed from users who downloaded them before being pulled.) But even if these users better understood Flappy Bird's ultimate fate, it's no excuse, and underscores the flippant nature to much of Internet commentary.

What's one comment in a large sea? Well, It adds up. How many people need to tell you that you're an asshole in real-life for it to have an impact on your day?

When I linked to the aforementioned Twitter list, it spread quickly, and generated sympathy and questions. I want to respond to some of the commentary that I found troublesome, and explain why what people did to Nguyen underscores some deeper cultural issues about what we consider acceptable Internet behavior.

(I'm not going to publish the actual tweets, just quote them.)

"I've never experienced any hate like this but I have to imagine 75% of the world would choose to endure this for 50k a day."

The most important part of this is "I've never experienced any hate like this." Red flag. The Verge speculated Flappy Bird was generating $50,000 daily. Nguyen's simply said it's "a lot." This has become the de facto excuse for why it's okay to dismiss Nguyen. He's rich! Who care if he's miserable about it? If a person is making a substantial amount of money, the logic goes, that's reason to put up with whatever the Internet can throw you. (Whether money buys happiness remains an open-ended question in academia.) But this displays an amazing lack of empathy. Can you imagine what it would be like to become a celebrity overnight? No. What gives you the right to evaluate their mental well-being? Why are you allowed to tell them how to feel?

"What mob? The mob of teenage girls who make completely idle death threats? I wouldn't take this too seriously."

"but it's not a real mob though. No one is actually gonna kill this guy."

A threat sent to former Call of Duty developer Robert Bowling.
A threat sent to former Call of Duty developer Robert Bowling.

It's hard to take this tweet seriously. What, mind you, is an idle death threat? That such a damningly vague phrase even exists is evidence itself that we've allowed discourse on the Internet to reach a point where we're supposed to be emotionally, mentally, and physically okay with death threats. If someone writes a death threat in a letter or in-person, that individual may be arrested by the police. At the very least, there are consequences. If someone writes a death threat over a social networking service, it's an "idle threat."

Words are powerful, and people should be responsible for them. When we characterize threats as "idle," we remove the individual from the equation. It's victim blaming. It's hard to imagine how Nguyen is to blame here.

When the Internet turns on you, it's hard to describe the emotional rollercoaster that goes along with it. You can't exactly walk away from the Internet forever. While looking at a long list of abuse Tweets directed at Nguyen, it's easy to distance yourself from it because, hey, it's not you. But I've been on the other side of that equation, albeit not to the same scale as Nguyen. When someone directs a threat of violence at you, it feels very personal. Every single one of them. When someone photoshops my wife into a photo to try and unsettle me, it feels very god damn personal. You cannot distance yourself from attacks that are directed at you, and to suggest otherwise only underscores one's lack of experience with the subject. You need a thick skin to survive as a public figure on the Internet, but that doesn't mean there aren't chinks in your armor. And as Jim Sterling mentioned on this week's morning show, it doesn't mean there isn't skin underneath. That skin can get raw.

We lack empathy on the Internet. There are people behind every game, every username, every Twitter account.

"what is the discussion at hand here? Should we be allowed to insult and/or threat people via the internet?"

Insult? Yes. Threaten? No. That is not protected speech. Learn how to construct a real argument.

"It's not that bad. I see worse shit in an average game of Dota."

This, unfortunately, rings true. It wouldn't surprise me if, statistically, the gaming audience was found to be more prone to this type of vitriolic commentary than other communities. The hardcore gaming demographic skews young. I'm afraid to imagine what kind of stupid things I might have said on today's Internet when I was 14-years-old. Many games, especially those online, are competitive, and adrenaline can bring out the worst in us.

But none of these are excuses for such poor behavior, and merely pointing out the problem doesn't solve it, either. A combination of legal, technological, and societal changes are needed to make the Internet a safer place, especially for critical, dissenting voices. You shouldn't have to put up with death threats on the Internet, and individuals shouldn't be allowed to get away with them without a reciprocal impact. This article won't change that, but the next time a situation like this flares up, you don't have to contribute to the problem, either.

Don't be silent. Speak up for targets of harassment. They're victims, after all.

***

If you're interested in reading more about Flappy Bird (there's lots to digest), here are some terrific pieces:

Patrick Klepek on Google+

792 Comments

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yutt

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@landmine said:

@yutt: I went to your profile and read all of your posts, and I suggest you do the same. You were at one point contributing to the discussion of the overall topic, whether people agree or disagree with you is another matter. What was once contribution on your part quickly turned into attacking, and name calling. Hence making you an example of exactly what you were discussing.

If people are going to insult my intelligence and claim I have problems with reading comprehension, I'll call them an asshole. Especially when I chose that word based on their using it twice in the comment I was responding to. So, thanks, but I'm well aware of the content and tone of my responses.

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Spotshadow

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Edited By Spotshadow

Thanks Patrick, I really enjoyed the Hess article too, hopefully more people will read that one as well.

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XenturiK

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Thanks for a great article/conversation klepek

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yukoasho

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Another "the internet is full of assholes" article.

We KNOW the internet is full of assholes. We know that, given anonymity, people are shitheads. We know all this. And yes, it's fucking terrible.

How about we propose a solution instead? Instead of wringing our hands and crying about how mean the internet is, how about we figure out what, if anything, can be done about it?

Honestly, short of ending comment sections, in-game communication and social media, I think the internet's a lost cause. Looking for civil discourse? Look elsewhere.

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Bam_Boozilled

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Edited By Bam_Boozilled

@bam_boozilled said:

@mondaymadetofall said:

I can't help but wonder if the type of people who complain about this article being on GB are the same type of people who would threaten people with death over social media.

More of this Patrick. Great read.

How is there in any way a correlation between the two? Or do you just dislike perfectly understandable opinions?

I'm sorry - what's the perfectly understandable reason that Patrick doesn't get to write what he wants on GB?

Because this is a video game website not a personal blog? Or am I mistaken? I honestly don't care about this article, but it annoys me that people like you so vehemently dislike the fact that some people don't want the same content as you. Especially those with paid subscriptions. They have a right to say whether they like content or not.

If anything, I don't like this because I don't come here to debate the great issues that encapsulate the entirety of internet. Who here of the giantbomb community are going to try to change their ways or the ways of others since they've seen this post? Who here is going to fight against internet empathy? You? This content just constantly brings up arguments among the community that rarely go anywhere or solve anything. It's not for me. It's not for some other people. Somehow people like @mondaymadetofall equate that to being someone who sends death threats.

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prezabelincoln

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Edited By prezabelincoln

Patrick it is great to see that you stand up for these things. Being the youngest Giantbomb guy and obviously taken your share of Internet punches it is awesome to see you continuing to stand up against the tide of assholes and not just for yourself but for everyone. Keep doing what you do. You are obviously appreciated.

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lord_python

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Thanks for this article Patrick. We need to do something about assholes on the internet, being silent is not one of them.

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Icaria

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Edited By Icaria

People created the Internet. People created "trolling" through the Internet. The Internet allows people to be dicks without the irl aftermath as a punch in the face for being dicks. How can people make a step in the opposite direction?

Man... I don't know.

Or perhaps this is backwards - people troll and threaten because they can't throw a punch through the Internet? I've certainly encountered a few people online I'd like to take a swing at but, as that hasn't been an option, I've opted instead to try a make a fool of or frustrate them.

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Enigma_2099

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Ladies and gents, the internet. Sad, isn't it?

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DogDingus

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Edited By DogDingus

Great article. I had essentially stepped out of the gaming / online forums / social media scene for a good few years and I must say I was surprised things had gotten so obnoxious that "trolling" had become a common place word. I remember when it was basically just reserved to the odd "Forum troll" who would just be baiting someone for laughs.

I'm all for free speech and what not but not when it comes to threats of violence. All it takes is one of these dicks to be unhinged enough to actually go and follow up on their promise.

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amafi

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@amafi said:

@themanwithnoplan said:

The internet brings out the inner monster in all of us. I don't know if it will ever change. :(

Piss poor excuse for terrible behaviour. It's a willing action. It's sitting down at a keyboard with an intention of causing someone distress, and it's got nothing to do with the internet, it's got to do with being a terrible person. point blank.

Whoah! I wasn't making an excuse for anyone's awful behavior nowadays. I was simply making a somber examination of most people's tendencies when it comes to anonymous conversation on the internet.

I agree that if you're a dick in real life that's gonna bleed over onto the interwebs, but that element of anonymity that's inherent to a large portion of the internet definitely also has something to do with it.

I wasn't claiming you were making that excuse, sorry if I was unclear. I was more a general statement. And yeah, anonymity obviously has something to do with it, that's the pathetic coward part of the equation.

I know some people who are complete and utter dicks online, but I can kinda respect that, because they tend to act the same way in their daily life whenever they can (so, for example not while working in a customer facing job). That's at least someone just doing them whatever the avenue. The people who just join in because that's what all the people posting the cat memes that get the most upvotes on reddit are doing aren't even people anymore, they're just fucking soulless automatons and probably suffer from severe mental deficiencies, which is more pitiful and sad than anything.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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Edited By TheManWithNoPlan
@amafi said:

@themanwithnoplan said:

The internet brings out the inner monster in all of us. I don't know if it will ever change. :(

Piss poor excuse for terrible behaviour. It's a willing action. It's sitting down at a keyboard with an intention of causing someone distress, and it's got nothing to do with the internet, it's got to do with being a terrible person. point blank.

Whoah! I wasn't making an excuse for anyone's awful behavior nowadays. I was simply making a somber examination of most people's tendencies when it comes to anonymous conversation on the internet.

I agree that if you're a dick in real life that's gonna bleed over onto the interwebs, but that element of anonymity that's inherent to a large portion of the internet definitely also has something to do with it.

Sometimes I'm much more frank and bold speaking on the internet than I am in real life, but the hyperbolic, malicious bullshit that a lot of people spew nowadays of course has less to do with that extra social anonymity and more to do with someone's generally shitty behavior in real life as well.

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amafi

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The internet brings out the inner monster in all of us. I don't know if it will ever change. :(

Piss poor excuse for terrible behaviour. It's a willing action. It's sitting down at a keyboard with an intention of causing someone distress, and it's got nothing to do with the internet, it's got to do with being a terrible person. point blank.

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amafi

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Edited By amafi

@jsnyder82 said:

My motto is: If it's something I wouldn't say to a person's face, I don't say it in the comment section.

It really is that simple. The "it's the internet" excuse is no excuse at all. People who are dicks online and nice in their day to day life aren't just dicks, they're pathetic, cowardly dicks. And I'd be more than happy to point this out in casual conversation to their face.

I don't care about this dude's game in any way, it seems like a perfect example of phone games, it's all super simple mechanics and super derivative, about as shallow as a digital entertainment product can be, but the way people have been talking about and at the creator is shameful.

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elyhaym

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Edited By elyhaym

I could not agree more strongly with this article. Great writeup, Patrick!

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ProfessorK

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Edited By ProfessorK

Things like this are why I don't engage in discussions on reddit and youtube and only feel comfortable sharing things with the smaller group of strangers here on GB. Anonymity has and always will reveal the most vile sides of people. "No repercussions, no problem. Let's just be subhuman monsters whenever we can get away with it." I equate it to busting balls with friends, you don't just go up to strangers and say " hey nice hair baldy" to someone you don't already have a relationship within which that's acceptable.

I realize though that even when it comes to online gaming it affects me. I don't like to play competitive games, not because of the fact that I might get rolled, but because I don't need to be taunted incessantly when I lose. I don't need to hear the many ways you're going to rape me or my family or listen to awful rap lyrics. So I just opt out and choose not to engage at all.

Yes, we all have rights but choosing to avoid each is really no way to live.

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BombaLuigi

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The whole "free speech" argument is only potentially valid in America and nowadays that's not entirely true anymore.

two things...

1. there are at least 25 free countrys in the world which grant you the right of free speech... we also have actual electricity and don't run our stuff with magic fire from an ancient dragons' butthole... or whatever you think we do over here... oh, and we have free healthcare

2. "harassment" and "threats" have nothing to do with free spech... death threats are a crime... and that is actually true almost no matter where you live...

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xXHesekielXx

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People created the Internet. People created "trolling" through the Internet. The Internet allows people to be dicks without the irl aftermath as a punch in the face for being dicks. How can people make a step in the opposite direction?

Man... I don't know.

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Cleron

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Edited By Cleron

TB just quit Reddit, his post below. I feel this is relevant to this discussion, and good on him, it sounds like he needs to cut off all social media to reclaim some sanity, hope he gets better.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Cynicalbrit/comments/1xrb2d/why_did_tb_deleted_his_reddit_account_again/

Right. See this is what happens when I try and quietly remove myself from the situation, people just make it worse and worse and worse. There's no winning. So apparently I should have made a final post saying why I don't want to engage on this subreddit anymore, so here we go.

I dread talking to my audience on a daily basis. A long time ago I used to love waking up, logging in and seeing what the viewers was saying, replying to their comments, doing the whole interaction thing. It was great. But that was a long time ago. Now everytime I post a Hearthstone video I have get anxiety over the amount of horrible comments it will get. It keeps me awake at night. I barely play the game now because of it. I used to play it for hours a day, now I only play it for videos, maybe an hour or two a week at most. I guess I've associated what was once a fun activity with constant complaining. Everytime I make a mistake I don't beat myself up about it because I made a mistake, I do it because I just gave people another avenue to complain and say things like "It was painful to watch" or "it was cringeworthy". I've heard so much of it I'm rolling in self-doubt and the only reason I keep that series up is because it pays well now. It used to be through passion for the game but the audience killed that.

But it's not just that. It's when the audience stomps on my principles. I think that's what hurts the most. I made a career out of trying to protect my audience from bad purchases. It's hardly saintly, its still just videogames on the internet, but whats a little light entertainment/info for you is MY LIFE. That's what I get up for every day now, that's what I live for. I work that job 6-7 days a week and I do it because I believe what I'm doing is helping, that it's making gaming better even if it's just a little. Ignoring your blatant misrepresentation for a second, when you say something like "It's not the devs fault there's bugs", or you go after me because I don't support early access and I want to be consumer-first, dev second, that isn't just a debate point, you're attacking the principles that are at the core of my day to day life. This sounds really dramatic but this is my life, this is ALL I DO. I only exist to do this right now.

I've read so many people with their "advice", oh... you should get a thicker skin! You should just ignore it! Those people have no idea of the volume of it all, or how constant it is, it never stops, it's day in day out 24/7, no end in sight noise. So many people talking at once... It's death by a thousand cuts. That thick skin isn't invincible, occassionally it buckles and when it does I tend to react badly. I'm not sure you actually understand just how fucked up I am. My hair is going grey, not to mention it's falling out. Yeah, my hair is grey at 29. Great right? I'm pretty sure I have chronic health problems that have been made far worse by stress. I'm even worried one of them might be life-threatening and I'm getting really paranoid about it. I fucking eat because I'm sad or angry or whatever, I have days where what should be a dream job is something I don't even want to think about doing. I'm seriously fucked in the head and I have been for a very long time. I CANNOT stop reading feedback. I can't just leave comments. I gave my Twitter to my staff months ago to try and stop me from reading it, which actually worked surprisingly. Turning off Youtube comments was great and for a while the subreddit was small enough and friendly enough that I could actually handle dealing with it. Now I dread reading it every morning and I CAN'T STOP MYSELF. God how many times have I tried to "get better?" over the last few years? Every time it's fucking failed, every time and I hate myself for it.

But do you know how much it hurts to read stuff like this? That I think my audience is irrelevant? I live for my audience. I put myself on the line for my audience. Right now my livelihood is under threat because I said what needed to be said to make sure my audience stayed informed. I give everything I've got on a daily basis to try and make my audience happy. So imagine how I feel when they lash out at me. Yeah, you're right, I should handle it better, but I can't. I mentally cannot, I'm a mentally broken person who likely can never be fixed. I hate myself everytime for that, way more than you could ever hate me for the things I say here. I kinda hoped that some people would realize when I did that piece on the Flappy Bird dev that there was more than a bit of my own personal issues in there. When I asked people to understand what it's like to get a bunch of attention you're not equipped to deal with that maybe a few people would realise but that's my fault, I should have just come right out and said it. I'm in a bad place physically, emotionally and mentally. I am not equipped to deal with my audience right now and frankly I should have deleted my account weeks ago so I can try to recover and not have individual viewers bear the brunt of that process.

You are not blameless but you are also not the root of the problem. Understand what it is you do to the people you apparently like. Everyone you like feels this way to a greater or lesser degree. Some people handle it better than others. I handle it terribly. I probably always will, so it's best I do what others in my position do and put a wall between the audience and myself to prevent further damage being done to both.

I've always been a believer that professionalism and worth speaks through your actions not your words. So I'm going to take away my words for a while so there's nothing else to drown out my actions. Sorry if you expect a better person behind your daily videos. What you've got is a fucked up, sad, balding, overweight guy who is good at one thing and is lucky enough to do it for a living. I guess things were better when it was possible to maintain the illusion, but these days people demand unprecedented levels of access to the people they watch and this is what it gets them. Sorry you don't like what you see behind the curtain.

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selbie

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I'd kill for a good sandwich right now......aw shit.

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So_Hai

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If the threatening behaviour is this bad, I hold Twitter accountable for not removing them. They're either unlawful or they're not. If they're not, then we have an ethical duty to be polite, but no legal one.

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Huxleyy

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Edited By Huxleyy

Suffice it to say that I'm a little unnerved to say what I'm about to say after reading the comments, but I will go ahead and try to anyways (I apologize, as this is very lengthy.)

I have been that guy. I have most definitely been that guy who says these things and goes on about his day, wondering how to get under someone's skin and try to unsettle them so deeply that they have no choice but to acknowledge what I say. I have said terrible things under the guise of anonymity and now years later I can only say that I really don't regret them.

Please. Hear me out.

If only because when I had it happen to me I realized that it wasn't a joke and almost immediately had the entire idea turned on its head for me. It dawned on me that what I thought were merely empty jokes and threats were actually very, very offensive and almost downright sad. I almost instinctively wanted to lash out that time as I had done so many times before and pretend like it was all okay. But for some reason that time I just decided to look inward and reflect. This was not an easy task. It has taken a good 2-3 years of self reflection for me to be able to completely understand who I was back then and why I was acting the way I was. And while this may not be the case for everyone on the internet -- and in fact I know it's not -- this is what caused me to be this way:

I was severely, and after a point almost terminally depressed. I just couldn't realize that, I was too caught up in it and the funniest part about the entire dilemma is that it simply started as an act, or at the very least that is what I told myself. I think that perhaps the solution isn't supposed to be on a checklist. I think that the internet is accessed by literally billions upon billions of people each day, and that at least some percentage of those people have very deep issues and that they are very unaware of them. This... inundating ignorance that comes from the built up pride of someone on the internet is, what I think is part of the issue at hand.

I don't regret what I said, I regret the reactions and the probable things they may have contributed to. I feel like that if I regret these then that makes the entire thing null and void.

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jsnyder82

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My motto is: If it's something I wouldn't say to a person's face, I don't say it in the comment section.

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Rongaryen

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I remember Gary Whitta talking about a kid in the British Isles getting into trouble for harassment and threats over the internet. People have gotten in trouble for this before. The whole "free speech" argument is only potentially valid in America and nowadays that's not entirely true anymore. With that said, the article is right about people over the internet being scumbags because there's no repercussions, generally, for anything said. The world is full of despicable people and the internet lets them show their true persona.

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UndeadPatPat

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Edited By UndeadPatPat

@nok: People where making nasty Photoshops of her. She probably dose not want to be on camera. Why are you an ass hat? What a dumb thing to say.

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nok

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Edited By nok

@dcam: I just have to know what it is you are talking about. I'm guessing you are trying to be smart and snarky about something, but I get the feeling you are just being an asshat. Please, please, more info on what it is you are trying to say here.

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nok

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Edited By nok

Great article Patrick. Made me look long and hard at myself as I am pretty much an internet asshole. Only log on when I'm ready to be a douche to others, pretty sad really. I believe the internet as a whole needs to read and see more about situations just like this so we all can understand how it makes a persons day, week, life miserable. Thanks to all the great GB users who are trying to better the internet we live in, I will try and be better myself.

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Homelessbird

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Edited By Homelessbird

@bam_boozilled said:

@mondaymadetofall said:

I can't help but wonder if the type of people who complain about this article being on GB are the same type of people who would threaten people with death over social media.

More of this Patrick. Great read.

How is there in any way a correlation between the two? Or do you just dislike perfectly understandable opinions?

I'm sorry - what's the perfectly understandable reason that Patrick doesn't get to write what he wants on GB?

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Homelessbird

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Edited By Homelessbird

I'll never understand doing this on Twitter.

IF you need to yell obscenities and death threats at someone you've never met (and that's a big IF)... that's what 4chan is for! No need to do it to someone who didn't essentially sign up for that abuse.

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Bam_Boozilled

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I can't help but wonder if the type of people who complain about this article being on GB are the same type of people who would threaten people with death over social media.

More of this Patrick. Great read.

How is there in any way a correlation between the two? Or do you just dislike perfectly understandable opinions?

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DCam

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Wow. So now I understand why Patrick's wife sprinted across the back of a stream at one point.

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monday

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Edited By monday

I can't help but wonder if the type of people who complain about this article being on GB are the same type of people who would threaten people with death over social media.

More of this Patrick. Great read.

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spraynardtatum

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Edited By spraynardtatum
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Clonedzero

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Dong Nguyen is a better man than I. I would have taken the game down with no warning. Fuck all of those ignorant people so hard. No amount of money is worth putting up with that shit. The way people act on the internet is disgusting.

I would have just abandoned my various social media accounts. Woulda been alot easier and more profitable. He's probably getting even more shit now that he's taken it down.

I'm certainly not defending the internets behavior, quite the opposite actually. But his reaction to it was awful and will just encourage more internet bullying "because it works".

Don't like some small game? Bully the devs till they take it down. Worked for flappy birds, it could work here...right? A dangerous precedent has been set, bullying devs works. Fez 2. Flappy Bird.

This whole thing is a shitshow. It's gonna get worse before it gets better, that i'd bet my life savings on. Strap in guys its gonna get fun!

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spraynardtatum

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Edited By spraynardtatum

@amonkey said:

This has nothing to do with GiantBomb. Post it on your personal blog Patrick.

I'm going to take a stab at this and say you are the 23rd person to repeat this same sentiment.

Not sure how you decided that. Giantbomb doesn't have to be anything other than Giantbomb. If Giantbomb puts things the Giantbomb staff want to put on Giantbomb then I believe that it has something to do with Giantbomb.

Kind of like James Cameron.

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deactivated-63b0572095437

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Dong Nguyen is a better man than I. I would have taken the game down with no warning. Fuck all of those ignorant people so hard. No amount of money is worth putting up with that shit. The way people act on the internet is disgusting.

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graf1k

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Edited By graf1k

Patrick is absolutely right. I wouldn't really characterize it as an issue of empathy though. People don't have empathy "in real life" and completely lose all capacity for empathy once they get behind a keyboard. When people can say something with nearly total anonymity like you can on the Internet, people will say some really nasty shit.

That said, I really don't think that's what this was. Humans are prone to hyperbole. Did anybody really think Mike Tyson wanted to kill Holyfield's children? Such behavior may be abhorrent to some people, but I can't get behind the idea of Internet Behavior/Morality Police any more than I can a real-life equivalent. No person or committee can objectively regulate that shit because it's all subjective by nature.

The best answer is to treat the Internet like you would your real life. Surround yourself with people that share a similar sense of morals as you do. If someone comes into your "home" and starts spouting some offensive shit, let them know that's not going to fly and if they can't regulate their own behavior, they're going to have to leave. But also recognize that when you venture out into public spaces like Twitter and Facebook, you will likely find people who will say things you may find objectionable or downright offensive and realize that ignoring it is really the only thing you can do. Shining a light on such a person may have the desired effect of ostracizing the offending party or convincing them to change, but more than likely you are just giving those people the attention they are begging for.

Now obviously there are some people who will always take things too far and there should be consequences for that. But like any grey area, society as a whole must decide where that line is. Make your voice heard, sure, but recognize you may still be in the minority.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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The internet brings out the inner monster in all of us. I don't know if it will ever change. :(

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mattdragn

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Edited By mattdragn

Great Article @patrickklepek!

In the UK people have definitely been prosecuted for sending death threats over twitter, guess our laws are a little different to those in the US. Not a lot of people though, so quite a long way to go there I suppose.

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AMonkey

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This has nothing to do with GiantBomb. Post it on your personal blog Patrick.

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Great article, Patrick. A lot of attention gets paid to the victims of internet-based bullying and hazing, but there are also other victims: those who simply associate with people that perpetuate that behavior. The past couple of years I have been withdrawing from a lot of internet gaming and social media because even though the culture doesn't bother me outwardly, I have seen myself using language and treating people differently because of that association. Now that I have young children, I avoid games like DOTA because I don't want to absorb that vulgarity and subconsciously introduce it to my family.

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darkdragonmage99

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Edited By darkdragonmage99

@mr_otas: Easy enough they stab the asshole who's doing it and don't feel guilty about it even 20 years later . Personal experience goes a long way when you have experience the people you are talking to don't. we are discussing something I'm personally experienced in I don't need some bunk study to tell me what happens. I don't need some doctor trying to tell me that being beaten and being harassed do the same thing to you they don't I know they don't because I've had them both done to me.

I don't seem like i'm interested in a discussion with mutual understanding because we don't have one I understand you do not I've been there and done that you have not or so it seems.

Empathy can go a long way but it will never equal true understanding you have to have first hand experience for that I down play mental illness because to me it's not a big deal i'm mentally ill and it's not a big deal I understand mental illness been there done that. understand the last thing people like me want is your fucking pity or be treated any differently then anyone else. You want to understand what happens to someone who is pushed over the edge read the first sentence it's not a arbitrary statement I never got past the 7th grade for a reason.

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mr_otas

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@darkdragonmage99

I'm bi polar autism and schizophrenia runs in the family try me words still ain't got shit on real violence no where close.

Your experiences doesn't apply to everyone, but I'm glad it's not getting in the way of your life.

Science, however, does not agree with you in that mere threats and insults can't cause real mental harm. And to downplay mental illness, and to belittle those who suffer from it, is a sign of either lack of knowledge on the subject, or ignorance. If our behaviors and emotions are governed by our brain, then what happens when it breaks? And what happens if you apply more pressure on an already overloaded system? What happens if you nudge someone that's already standing far to close to the edge?

You also don't seem to show any signs of being willing to carry out a discussion based on mutual understanding and open mindedness. Your constant attempts at quantifying and comparing different types of suffering shows this. Suffering is subjective, not objective, and can therefore not be absolutely defined or ranked.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@brodehouse said:

You should actually try talking to some police officers and some rights advocates before you begin pontificating about how an authority figure should be in charge of making sure nothing mean ever gets said.

It is not "we can't do anything so why try". Stop mischaracterizing the argument for your own benefit. It's "the legislation you're calling for would cause undue harm in ways you aren't taking into consideration". It's not that it's hopeless so why try, it's that the things we would have to do to make it so no one is ever made to feel bad in life would cause problems in ways you don't care about, so those problems don't exist in your mind. Your "combination of legal, technological, and societal changes" amounts to "wave a wand and make everything better". The reason those changes don't get made is because they come with drawbacks that no one wants to suffer under. You just refuse to see any potential drawbacks because you don't believe there are any, and you don't believe you will ever be subject to them.

They remind me of a combination of legal, technological and societal changes designed in order to stop terrorism. It sounded completely logical and sensible and reasonable to everyone at the time, because they didn't care about the drawbacks. Now the drawbacks are here and people complain. Or that combination of legal, technological and societal changes designed to root out drug users and arrest them, thereby protecting everyone from the evils of drugs. It sounded completely logical and sensible and reasonable to everyone at the time, it was to improve everyone's social welfare and they couldn't imagine there were drawbacks. And how could anyone argue with them? After all, you wouldn't argue with the War on Drugs unless you were a drug dealer, right? You wouldn't argue with the Patriot Act unless you were a terrorist, right? Clearly if anyone argues against your legal, technological and societal changes then they must be bullies and part of the problem and better off thrown in prison.

I quote this primarily because I feel it deserves it be read more than it seems like it was.

There is a profound lack of awareness and foresight in a lot of the statements on how evil "The Internet" is. This is exactly why I have issues with articles like this that do little more than whip people into a frenzy; it reminds me too much of what cable news does. Everyone gets into a frenzy over how evil and awful something is, they get too close and lose perspective, and then start suggesting things that would do serious social harm only because they sound like satisfying and concrete solutions in the heat of the moment. They make people think part of society is irreparably broken, and that danger lurks around every corner, when it's not, and it doesn't.

This issue needs less soapboxing, self-aggrandizement, or political calls-to-arms, and a whole lot more humility, diplomacy, and perspective. I'm sure this article made Patrick feel really good about what he was doing, that this was really his excellent deed for the week, but there's nothing here except more shaming. Shaming that the offenders in question will not be at all affected by. The true solutions to this problem, like most problems, are far less satisfying and far less simple than people think. This isn't "us vs. them." Certain people in this "debate" are just talking right past people, instead of with people.

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Landmine

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@yutt: I went to your profile and read all of your posts, and I suggest you do the same. You were at one point contributing to the discussion of the overall topic, whether people agree or disagree with you is another matter. What was once contribution on your part quickly turned into attacking, and name calling. Hence making you an example of exactly what you were discussing.

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darkdragonmage99

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@mr_otas: I'm bi polar autism and schizophrenia runs in the family try me words still ain't got shit on real violence no where close. @rasgueado: That's my point exactly people complaining about their feelings getting hurt while people are still being crippled and killed is exactly what i said pathetic. First world problems at their finest we haven't ended real violence yet but we try and equate being harassed as the worst thing that could happen to you . It's not the same thing and never will be words will only hurt if you let them bricks on the other hand that hurt no matter what you do.

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@yutt: Yet again, poor reading comprehension. Please tell me where I said I would like to remove anyone from the world? I notice you didn't address my previous questions where I asked you to cite me stating the opinions you claim that I hold, so you probably won't bother doing it this time.

Please note that reading comprehension is different than intelligence or literacy. I'm not sure what else to call it when you repeatedly tell me I'm saying things that I am not saying.

Anyway, you seem to be on some kind of crusade so I'll leave you to it. I apologize if I offended you in any way, have a pleasant evening.