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Our Internet Empathy Problem

The disappearance of Flappy Bird has prompted streams of harassment and death threats. There are no consequences for the most vile of harassment on the Internet. This has to change.

We don't just have a game culture problem, we have an Internet culture problem.

No Caption Provided

Today, we have a better understanding of why Flappy Bird developer Dong Nguyen decided his game should no longer be available on the App Store: addiction. An interview with Forbes revealed the developer's insecurity with how people played it.

"I think it has become a problem," said Nguyen. "To solve that problem, it’s best to take down Flappy Bird. It’s gone forever.”

Until this morning, his motivations were the source of speculation. (I suspect this will continue to be the case.) It might have been the accusations of theft, it might have been the overwhelming spotlight success brings, and it might have been the torrent of abuse that was spewing forth on his Twitter feed. It might have been a combination of all three or none of the above. There are even some who theorize the virality was faked.

It doesn't actually matter. Even if Nguyen removed the game for reasons he won't disclose, reasons far less altruistic than protecting players from themselves, we can still read what has been said about him and to him.

On Sunday afternoon, I became aware of a custom Twitter list that collected some of the horrendous, awful words that had been targeted at Nguyen in the past few days. Many of them were death threats, some merely promised violence, and others shouted obscenities at the top of their digital lungs. Much of it was unequivocally abuse and deeply unsettling. Whether or not these comments impacted Nguyen doesn't change the fact that they exist. The sheer volume of abuse suggests much of the Internet populace believes there is no consequence for threats conveyed via Twitter or otherwise. There's good reason for that: they're right.

Amanda Hess' "Why Women Aren't Welcome on the Internet" article, for example, is an excellent and deeply applicable source on how much difficulty our modern legal and security infrastructures have dealing with the evolution of harassment. The tools of harassers are deeply embedded into the fabric of the Internet. Empowerment of the user is king. Unfortunately, it comes at all costs to the victims on the receiving end.

Here are a few examples of what was directed at Nguyen:

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Weirdly, much of the vitriol targeted at Nguyen may come from a deep misunderstanding of what's happening to Flappy Bird. It is not being erased from every iPhone and iPad. While Apple does have a "kill switch" that would allow the company to remotely nuke a piece of software from all of its devices, it has never deployed the "kill switch." It's reserved for malware and other havoc-inducing apps. (For example, developers who have snuck emulators onto the App Store hidden have not seen their apps forcefully removed from users who downloaded them before being pulled.) But even if these users better understood Flappy Bird's ultimate fate, it's no excuse, and underscores the flippant nature to much of Internet commentary.

What's one comment in a large sea? Well, It adds up. How many people need to tell you that you're an asshole in real-life for it to have an impact on your day?

When I linked to the aforementioned Twitter list, it spread quickly, and generated sympathy and questions. I want to respond to some of the commentary that I found troublesome, and explain why what people did to Nguyen underscores some deeper cultural issues about what we consider acceptable Internet behavior.

(I'm not going to publish the actual tweets, just quote them.)

"I've never experienced any hate like this but I have to imagine 75% of the world would choose to endure this for 50k a day."

The most important part of this is "I've never experienced any hate like this." Red flag. The Verge speculated Flappy Bird was generating $50,000 daily. Nguyen's simply said it's "a lot." This has become the de facto excuse for why it's okay to dismiss Nguyen. He's rich! Who care if he's miserable about it? If a person is making a substantial amount of money, the logic goes, that's reason to put up with whatever the Internet can throw you. (Whether money buys happiness remains an open-ended question in academia.) But this displays an amazing lack of empathy. Can you imagine what it would be like to become a celebrity overnight? No. What gives you the right to evaluate their mental well-being? Why are you allowed to tell them how to feel?

"What mob? The mob of teenage girls who make completely idle death threats? I wouldn't take this too seriously."

"but it's not a real mob though. No one is actually gonna kill this guy."

A threat sent to former Call of Duty developer Robert Bowling.
A threat sent to former Call of Duty developer Robert Bowling.

It's hard to take this tweet seriously. What, mind you, is an idle death threat? That such a damningly vague phrase even exists is evidence itself that we've allowed discourse on the Internet to reach a point where we're supposed to be emotionally, mentally, and physically okay with death threats. If someone writes a death threat in a letter or in-person, that individual may be arrested by the police. At the very least, there are consequences. If someone writes a death threat over a social networking service, it's an "idle threat."

Words are powerful, and people should be responsible for them. When we characterize threats as "idle," we remove the individual from the equation. It's victim blaming. It's hard to imagine how Nguyen is to blame here.

When the Internet turns on you, it's hard to describe the emotional rollercoaster that goes along with it. You can't exactly walk away from the Internet forever. While looking at a long list of abuse Tweets directed at Nguyen, it's easy to distance yourself from it because, hey, it's not you. But I've been on the other side of that equation, albeit not to the same scale as Nguyen. When someone directs a threat of violence at you, it feels very personal. Every single one of them. When someone photoshops my wife into a photo to try and unsettle me, it feels very god damn personal. You cannot distance yourself from attacks that are directed at you, and to suggest otherwise only underscores one's lack of experience with the subject. You need a thick skin to survive as a public figure on the Internet, but that doesn't mean there aren't chinks in your armor. And as Jim Sterling mentioned on this week's morning show, it doesn't mean there isn't skin underneath. That skin can get raw.

We lack empathy on the Internet. There are people behind every game, every username, every Twitter account.

"what is the discussion at hand here? Should we be allowed to insult and/or threat people via the internet?"

Insult? Yes. Threaten? No. That is not protected speech. Learn how to construct a real argument.

"It's not that bad. I see worse shit in an average game of Dota."

This, unfortunately, rings true. It wouldn't surprise me if, statistically, the gaming audience was found to be more prone to this type of vitriolic commentary than other communities. The hardcore gaming demographic skews young. I'm afraid to imagine what kind of stupid things I might have said on today's Internet when I was 14-years-old. Many games, especially those online, are competitive, and adrenaline can bring out the worst in us.

But none of these are excuses for such poor behavior, and merely pointing out the problem doesn't solve it, either. A combination of legal, technological, and societal changes are needed to make the Internet a safer place, especially for critical, dissenting voices. You shouldn't have to put up with death threats on the Internet, and individuals shouldn't be allowed to get away with them without a reciprocal impact. This article won't change that, but the next time a situation like this flares up, you don't have to contribute to the problem, either.

Don't be silent. Speak up for targets of harassment. They're victims, after all.

***

If you're interested in reading more about Flappy Bird (there's lots to digest), here are some terrific pieces:

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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audiosnow

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@atwa said:

Honestly, as bad as some people act I just don't see a solution to it. Patrick mentions that merely pointing at it doesn't solve it, yet that is exactly what this article does. Which is precisely the point, I don't see a solution to it, ever. At least not if we want the anonymity of the internet to remain. People have always been horrible. Its just much easier to make that apparent these days. John Lennon got tons of death threats, even without the internet!

@johnbakosh said:

Why is this even on Giant Bomb?

It seems like something better suited to a personal blog.

I kind of wonder the same thing, it has virtually nothing to do with gaming and is more of a social topic. Though I am not one to say if that is where Giantbomb is headed.

Maybe the anonymity shouldn't remain. I do like my Internet anonymity, but I can't really demand it. We're really just passing notes, conversing like this online, and if we were doing it with notecards and pens in a public park, with both letters and faces visible to all, we'd pause before writing, a lot more often. And people will always be rotten, yes, but disabling the rotten ones is part of what makes us good. In "real life" that means stepping up and facing off with jackasses. That's difficult to do when we only show what we want others to see (even those who show only that they're pieces of crap), and maybe it shouldn't be. I'm not saying I've thought through all of the repercussions of removing anonymity, but I know a lot of people who've never considered its removal at all, nor their alleged claim to it.

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mdmac92

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Calling a tweeted death threat "idle" is not "victim blaming". Its simple logic and common sense. Seeing as no one has actually ever killed someone for taking down a mobile game, and the vast majority of the threats are coming from teenagers who live thousands of miles away and have never met, or will ever meet, this guy, it would be completely sound and logical to call their tweeted death threats "idle". Anyone with any bit of life experience could tell you that the probability of this guy being in any real danger is lower than him being struck by lighting.

I want to believe Patrick is just an honest journalist covering games, but the almost constant barrage of hyperbolic morality articles he puts up is getting out of hand. THIS IS VIDEO GAMES. Stop trying to turn it into some moral crusade of life and death, just so you can feel like what you do for a living is righteous and important to the world. How many hyperbolic, reaction-grabbing articles on seemingly non-issues are going to be enough?

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physicalscience

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@milkman: I guess I'm just stupid for not being a pessimist and believing that most people are good natured and that vulgure language and sarcasm don't define who they are as a person.

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GregIsRad

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Edited By GregIsRad

Usually I can't stand Patrick grandstanding, but I really can't disagree with him here, particularly in the last paragraph.

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Nmckee503

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@wilshere said:

@rox360 said:

@wilshere said:

Call me when someone actually kills a person after talking about it on the internet.

Is it okay if I call you after someone commits suicide because of continuous harassment on the Internet? That's basically the same thing, right? Because if so, I'm going to need your number.

Murder and suicide isn't the same. Spew hatred on me all you want, i am thankfully stable enough to not harm myself over words on a screen.

But there are so many people out there that aren't stable enough, that's where the problem is. Plenty of people bullied outside of the internet commit suicide, just because it doesn't happen face to face doesn't make it any less hurtful. I've had people be nasty to me online to the point where I didn't get out of bed for a day. Not everyone is stable, the fact some are doesn't make being shitty alright.

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swordmagic

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Ima keel y

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Odie_Esty

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Edited By Odie_Esty

It's just...it's not that big a deal. It's not like being physically confronted where you can't flee or there's a chance of things escalating without your input, just...ignore it. Don't look. Brush it off. It's not hard.

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"Mikey: Adopted wuss...I'm no adopted wuss. I'll kill you, Brand!" - The Goonies, 1985.

If this film was made in 2013, Mikey would have tweeted "I'll kill you Brand" rather than saying it out loud. It would have had no more significance than all of those people who tweeted "I"ll kill you" to the creator of Flappy Bird. Nor would have have beeen 10 minutes later in the film when Brand in turn threats "I'm gonna kill..." in reference to Mikey and his friends when they let the air out of his tires. Whether they be kids, mentally unstable, undereducated poor people, individuals with poor self control or just simply the socially awkward, people use abrasive language out of states of emotional excitement. We use this sort of language all the time. We always have. When we do it to anonymous people online, it means even less than if we were doing it to someone we actually know.

The world isn't falling apart because people blow off steam on twitter by using all caps and delivering drive by insults at people they don't even know. Society isn't getting worse, or even more violent. In fact, the last reports I heard the world in general and the U.S. in particular is less violent than it has been in half a century and the world is certainly rapidly becoming far more tolerant. The pace of the gay rights movement and it's acceptance in mainstream culture over the last few years makes my head spin. People blowing off steam by shouting random things on the internet to take "internet famous" people down a notch or two is not indicative of a cultural problem of serious violence or intolerance.

Some people have a hard time dealing with the mass of people responding to them on social networks when they become "internet famous"? Sure. Some people have a problem with large crowds, or spiders, or a fear of shell fish. The bottom line is that being internet famous isn't really that different than being "real world" famous except maybe the paycheck often sucks a lot more. The same principles of learning to deal with it apply. And if you can't/don't want to deal with internet fame, there is always a way to unplug, temporarily or permanently. But the Mikey's and Brand's of the world (which are all of us really at one time or another) aren't going to stop using the phrase "I'll kill you Brand" just become some people have a phobia about their own internet fame and the criticism that comes along with it.

THIS. I have read a good few great replies to this article in the comments and this might be the best. @patrickklepek you need to look up what empathy means in the dictionary, hold on i'll do it for you:

"Empathy is the capacity to recognize emotions that are being experienced by another sentient or fictional being."

Calling every single person a monster who sends some offhand tweet is the exact opposite of empathy and a root of the problem you are complaining should be fixed. YOU yourself are guilty off sending at least one tweet that was sarcastic, yet violent. When confronted about it you apologized, but don't you think that if most of these people who shot this tweet out to this random guy they don't know were put on the spot by serious people who they respected that they would also apologize? Are they still monsters then? Because if so, so are you.

The real problem is that people like you shove everyone into a generic stereotype and then call for some sort of "Punishment" or action be taken against them without realizing that all of these people are real people with their own lives and problems and that maybe figuring out what the motivation for these types of actions is will not only help them become better people, but make the world a better place.

But no, they are all terrible monsters and their real motivation behind sending these tweets was that they actually did want him to die, no other reason. Just like you really think every person who uses adBlock should die in a fire, because you said it on twitter I must take it 100% seriously.

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aceofspudz

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Edited By aceofspudz

I prefer the wild-west internet that I grew up with.

At this point I think the best thing for everyone would be a divorce. All the people who want the internet to resemble the real world precisely with real names and serious consequences for people who step out of the culturally defined lines should be on one internet, and the ones who want the internet to be a place of anonymity and open speech as it always has been can be on another.

We could create an 'Internet 2' where you have to be 18, your only login is your real name and everything you say is recorded for posterity. On that internet, sure, anything anyone says would naturally have full legal force. Including death threats. The nasty and chaotic denizens can't get to you.

Meanwhile back on the free Internet we can tell someone who pisses us off that they should die in a fire and everyone understands that this is not an actual call for pyrotechnical murder. The advantages of pseudonymity and anonymity are much greater than the harms. Extending, as Patrick calls for, the tools and standards of the real world to the Internet at large would be a great destruction of individual freedom and expression merely to catch a few bad actors.

Edit: For the record, I'd forgotten about the time Patrick called for Adblock users to DIAF when I wrote this. I was just using it as the prototypical example of an internet non-death threat.

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Edited By Milkman

@marokai: I agree with (almost) everything you said there. I don't think the world is getting worse or anything but I think the problem is that everyone has a voice and unfortunately, a lot of those people are assholes. It's so easy to go on Twitter, tell someone to kill themselves and go about your day like nothing happened. You're right, people were always saying vile shit to each other. It was just much more isolated. To be honest, I don't really have a solution to any of this. I don't know if it can be fixed. I doubt it can. Still, I'm not willing to dismiss this kind of stuff as nothing.

I don't agree that articles like this are as useless as you think. (I'm speaking in general terms here, not just this article specifically.) I think there's a real value to giving a voice to people who face this kind of abuse and speaking up for people who can't always speak for themselves. It probably won't make the abuse stop but the kind words of a few can definitely lessen the impact of the vitriol of many.

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@eternalgamer2:

Seriously dude, your comments are a great read. Thoughtful, interesting, well-written and most importantly: respectful. Glad to see people who still think about what and how they express something.

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Humans are innately evil. Selfishness, greed, and hatred are evolutionary advantages, and the modern human has literally had millions of years to instill such characteristics. Society is our intelligent plan to thwart our very basic instincts, but it can only hide so much of what makes humanity the disease of this planet.

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde

That being said, I'm one of the exceptions. I find no shame is stating this truth.

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Prison makes more problems for society, it dose not solve them, it simply "locks" problems away for a set amount of time. It is far more likely to have a negative effect on a persons life, especially their employment chances. You may think that this negative effect will "teach" said person right from wrong, but all it dose is exacerbate the existing problem 10 fold.

The end result is a far bigger problem then what you started with.

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SkankinPacman

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This is a bit off topic but I find it super interesting the the people who are saying things like "y is dis on gb? patrick you suck." Are not subscribers of the site and the people actually wanting to engage in a discussion are. Not saying that all non-subs are ignorant jerks, but it feels like the majority are.

Anyways, great article Patrick.

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@patrickklepek You're a good man Patrick. There's not many out there like you.

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@yutt said:

@eternalgamer2: But wouldn't sending Mikey to prison, making him hate himself, or his parents tell him how horrible he is make the world a better place? I think that would probably fix the world and stop them from being mean right away.

America incarcerates more people per capita than any other nation in the world. It's not a solution for minor offenders, it makes society worse in the long run.

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The very definition of a first world problem, now published as real news on this very website.

I'm sickened, but not for the reasons the author intended...

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Edited By bananaz

If I make a game, I'll be more afraid of social media than bad reviews. My contact info will be an "About Me" profile about how I live in an isolated, secret compound and have totally eluded the internet. I'll describe the spotlight you'll have to shine in the sky at night to make me appear. Then, you can glibly tell me you'll kill me in less than 140 characters. If you've come that far, go nuts. But I will hit you.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@milkman said:

@marokai: I would love nothing more than to agree with you that it's "not that bad at there." But more and more lately, I've begun to doubt if that's really true. I don't think this is a very small percentage. I'm not even sure if it's a minority anymore and if it is a minority, it's a very, very loud one.

But why do you think that? Why is it getting worse out there? Because the media highlights incidents of harassment on social media? Services that millions of people use? Maybe it's because I follow politics on a regular basis that I'm used to public figures being in the hot seat from an angry public, but just statistically I would be more surprised if there weren't incidents of people getting bullied by idiots they don't know, just because they can. It happens everywhere, in school, in the workplace, why would it stop with a game developer on twitter?

It's an old and tired line, but it always bears repeating; the world is constantly getting better, and the people in the present always get in a tizzy over how they think it's getting worse. Everytime I visit my grandparents I get told tales of "how crazy the world is now, have you seen the news lately?" Society is healthier, safer, less violent, more tolerant, than any time in decades. Think of where the internet was ten years ago, there was plenty of hate, it was just confined to message boards, chat rooms, and comment threads. There was no YouTube or Twitter or Tumblr. New tech and new services have come along and allowed those idiots who used to troll on the gamefaqs boards to sign up for a twitter account and harass whoever they please. And moderation has become so much greater than where it was when I think of how things were when I was 14.

People are the same as they always were. I think that's a much more simple and straightforward explanation than that society has somehow become more rotten in the last decade. Something that is always being claimed, every half-generation, because of some new-fangled thing.

None of that excuses this behavior, it's as disgusting as Patrick says it is, but the answer to a lot of these problems is much less satisfying than people think it is. We'll never have a utopia, and the kind of people that do this sort of thing probably aren't going to be reached by an article that does little more than lament about specific examples of shittiness. Create better moderation, keep things in perspective, and eventually we as a society we'll get to where we need to be. It won't be solved by self-appointed heroes, or the horrible implementation of laws.

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Edited By yutt

@eternalgamer2: But wouldn't sending Mikey to prison, making him hate himself, or his parents tell him how horrible he is make the world a better place? I think that would probably fix the world and stop him from being mean right away and forever.

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Edited By Cleron

Sadly, people venting often sounds a lot worse then it truly is, sure it's a real problem, but it has a lot more to do with how connected everyone is these days. If everyone can voice their issues with you then they will, everyone has an opinion, and on things they care about they will often want to share said opinion, even if it's highly negative.

The end result is a massive mob of people saying stupid crap on the internet that reflects their raw emotional state at that particular point in time. Unlike in real life where they would be more conservative with their emotional outcry (usually). Everyone needs to ask them selves if social media is worthwhile, it can be a massive boon, but it also opens people lives up to constant criticism & personal attack.

You can't stop random people on the internet being assholes, but you do have the power of personal agency. So, If the benefits simply aren't worth the level of harassment you receive then it's time to unplug.

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EternalGamer2

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Edited By EternalGamer2

"Mikey: Adopted wuss...I'm no adopted wuss. I'll kill you, Brand!" - The Goonies, 1985.

If this film was made in 2013, Mikey would have tweeted "I'll kill you Brand" rather than saying it out loud. It would have had no more significance than all of those people who tweeted "I"ll kill you" to the creator of Flappy Bird. Nor would have have beeen 10 minutes later in the film when Brand in turn threats "I'm gonna kill..." in reference to Mikey and his friends when they let the air out of his tires. Whether they be kids, mentally unstable, undereducated poor people, individuals with poor self control or just simply the socially awkward, people use abrasive language out of states of emotional excitement. We use this sort of language all the time. We always have. When we do it to anonymous people online, it means even less than if we were doing it to someone we actually know.

The world isn't falling apart because people blow off steam on twitter by using all caps and delivering drive by insults at people they don't even know. Society isn't getting worse, or even more violent. In fact, the last reports I heard the world in general and the U.S. in particular is less violent than it has been in half a century and the world is certainly rapidly becoming far more tolerant. The pace of the gay rights movement and it's acceptance in mainstream culture over the last few years makes my head spin. People blowing off steam by shouting random things on the internet to take "internet famous" people down a notch or two is not indicative of a cultural problem of serious violence or intolerance.

Some people have a hard time dealing with the mass of people responding to them on social networks when they become "internet famous"? Sure. Some people have a problem with large crowds, or spiders, or a fear of shell fish. The bottom line is that being internet famous isn't really that different than being "real world" famous except maybe the paycheck often sucks a lot more. The same principles of learning to deal with it apply. And if you can't/don't want to deal with internet fame, there is always a way to unplug, temporarily or permanently. But the Mikey's and Brand's of the world (which are all of us really at one time or another) aren't going to stop using the phrase "I'll kill you Brand" just become some people have a phobia about their own internet fame and the criticism that comes along with it.

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Edited By RonnieBarzel

@edoone said:

as Dave says, "don't be a dick in Internet" or with..

Sorry, for my poor Grammar.

Isn't that actually Wheaton's Law? Or did Dave popularize/coin it first?

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@marokai: I would love nothing more than to agree with you that it's "not that bad at there." But more and more lately, I've begun to doubt if that's really true. I don't think this is a very small percentage. I'm not even sure if it's a minority anymore and if it is a minority, it's a very, very loud one.

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Nice article Patrick.

It is so easy to create an account on most sites and the only information of yours that is put out is a username and picture, which can easily have no obvious link to you personally.
Spitballing: Do we need to have some sort of new system which means there is less ambiguity in people's online profiles? Where there is more of a personal attachment to you as a person that could mean our actions online carry more weight.
Or is a screen always going to create the necessary divide that makes people feel safe enough to write comments that to them can have little repercussions?

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As long as you're online only you could maybe create random personalities for every service you join. I know this might be a bit unpractical and paranoid (and I don't do it either) but should you ever get into a situation like this you could just discard that identity without any real life impact. Than again the internet is part of real life.

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jimmyfenix

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I remember twitter saying they would implement a one button reporting system which could lead to police action. I guess they have not implemented yet.

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Edited By TheHumanDove

But what if you just walked away from the screen

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@gold_skulltulla: I agree with your point that its not likely that those who write the kind of things that Patrick is talking about would read or care about this article or others like it. But you also mention bringing those people to "the table" in some form and potentially find a way of reinforcing "decent behavior" at an early age. On that point though I think a necessary component for that kind of approach is to make the average person widely acknowledge that the kind of things that certain individuals are sending are not acceptable and can't simply be dealt with by simply shrugging and saying "well that's the internet." In the comments to this article alone you can see plenty of people who view the discussed behavior as unacceptable but also plenty of people who don't necessarily support the comments but don't see a point as to why they should care that they are being made. I think that if you want to be successful in the kind of approach you mentioned then you need these kinds of articles and discussion to change the minds of those who are indifferent and have them come to see the issue as at least a potential problem.

And being completely honest I don't expect things to change for a very long time if at all in terms of there always being some really terrible people who are comfortable saying things on the internet that many of them would never say to someones face. I also mentioned in my first post to this article that I personally view comments made while playing a game like COD or DOTA as different from something along the lines of sending a twitter death threat or the kind of message that some asshole left Patrick on the voice-mail dropbox he set up for the Dark Souls user podcast hes putting together (He tweeted it like an hour ago if your not sure what I'm referring too). I'm not personally bothered by someone yelling at me over voice chat but I think I would be bothered if I got a twitter message from someone saying they were gonna rape and murder my family. For whatever reason the latter example seems far more direct and offensive to me. Like I said at the start of this paragraph I don't expect that the kind of things the article talks about will really ever be completely gone. I also don't think that a lot of the people who condemn these threats and comments necessarily are calling for some internet censorship police like I've seen numerous comments to this article claim is being asked for. Personally I simply hope that we can come to a point where we all agree without some large debate that the kind of comments discussed in the article are just as unacceptable over a medium like twitter as they are if they were said in person.

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ptys

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Very interesting, I guess internet harassment is kind of like the first time your are in a car accident, you never think it could happen to you, then when it does its all of a sudden very real and common. I think the Facebook model of using someone's true identity on the internet is the answer. It's unfortunate but I guess the only way to reign this nonsense in is to make people as accountable for their comment on-line as they are in real life. Proper validation of who you are... or you don't get to post?

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radioactivez0r

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I honestly was hoping for a bit more on the "what can we do to change this, internet" end of things instead of "yeah, the internet is still awful", but interesting read all the same. A friend posted about Flappy Bird over the weekend and I chose to ignore it, so I don't even have a frame of reference for this.

But it does bring up a potentially interesting point, which is that this whole thing, as a microcosm here and often at large, exists JUST on the internet. The entire phenomena is localized (?) to the online realm. You know full well that 99.99% of people spouting hateful things online would never in their wildest dreams say it in person. And the average person who looks at their email or their Pinterest will be none the wiser. It's like a weird sub-group of internet users who keep trying to outdo each other in vileness.

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TheSouthernDandy

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@kerned said:

Well, he had no trouble countering the arguments of people who @messaged him to disagree with him without naming names. He even mentions in the article that he isn't going to quote those tweets. So why can't he make examples of people who are being awful towards the Flappy Bird dev without naming names? Maybe because he would really like to shame those people.

Again, I'm not saying those people aren't assholes, and maybe they deserve shaming, but an editorial about being nice on the internet might not be the best place to do it. Leading by example and all.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, and it isn't that I think he should have kept their usernames in there. I just don't understand why it is such a big deal that he did. If people are making such comments in public, bringing them to light in public doesn't seem malicious to me. This is all speculation here, but if Patrick has taken his time to write an article about this sort of thing, it doesn't make much sense for him to actually want to inflict pain on other people in just the way he has written against? But this is the Internet, after all. We can only assume we know everyone else's intentions.

Plus as he mentioned, that's a list somebody else made, it's been spread around already so those names are out there. It wouldn't make much sense to blur them out if they're easily accessible anyway.

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sephirm87

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@patrickklepek I personally think a lot of this stems from much greater cultural concerns. People spend so little time interacting with real human beings that social skills are not sufficiently being learned. People are just an anonymous username on a computer.

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sephirm87

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@jondo said:

@patrickklepek I'd like to request clarification regarding the internet regulation statements, as they have garnered a lot of speculation regarding your motives and opinions on potential censorship. For instance:

I would say that the twitter posts should be in-actionable in a criminal court but in some few cases actionable in a civil court. However, if someone internet stalked my address, then sent me an anonymous email with my address, a picture of where I lived, and a text threat, I would say that should be prosecutable.

I respect your opinion and hope to hear back.

I would have to give that more thought, and would require talking to some experts and/or doing more research. Feel free to remind me in a PM.

There is actually an active case that will likely go before the Supreme Court right now regarding whether libel on Twitter rises to the same level as libel in other places. The case involves Courtney Love making allegedly libelous statements about her attorney on twitter. The jury ultimately sided with her, saying that Twitter was not a reputable source of information, so libel in the traditional sense did not apply. The case is currently being appealed, but it seems to hit on a similar vein.

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Kerned

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@rusalkagirl: If you aren't an asshole, you aren't an asshole even to assholes.

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rusalkagirl

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@zombieslayingin3d: It sucks when you have to worry about people being assholes to assholes in response to an article about people being assholes. Ugh.

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JimmySmiths

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Edited By JimmySmiths

@rusalkagirl: Look at Retsupurae, they rp a bad lp, and fans will go out of their way to find out the youtube users name and spam them with comments. It is really just irresponsible to use their names.

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matatat

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rusalkagirl

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@kerned said:

Well, he had no trouble countering the arguments of people who @messaged him to disagree with him without naming names. He even mentions in the article that he isn't going to quote those tweets. So why can't he make examples of people who are being awful towards the Flappy Bird dev without naming names? Maybe because he would really like to shame those people.

Again, I'm not saying those people aren't assholes, and maybe they deserve shaming, but an editorial about being nice on the internet might not be the best place to do it. Leading by example and all.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, and it isn't that I think he should have kept their usernames in there. I just don't understand why it is such a big deal that he did. If people are making such comments in public, bringing them to light in public doesn't seem malicious to me. This is all speculation here, but if Patrick has taken his time to write an article about this sort of thing, it doesn't make much sense for him to actually want to inflict pain on other people in just the way he has written against? But this is the Internet, after all. We can only assume we know everyone else's intentions.

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Paindamnation

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Oh I love how comments blow up from internet stories on Giant bomb. Oh to watch the flames rise, good story though @patrickklepek and good on you for beating Yamma. #hailscoops

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Gold_Skulltulla

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@pepipopa: I don't know that one. Did they show that in school? Likely would have been after my time. I think we all know how effective infotainment videos are...

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Pepipopa

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@gold_skulltulla:

Remember That dumb internet bullying hallmark movie they made?

I do.

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Kerned

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@rusalkagirl said:

@ I don't think that he wanted to shame anyone by calling out actions he disagreed with. However, if there were no examples of what the article was about, the whole thing would be a moot point.

Well, he had no trouble countering the arguments of people who @messaged him to disagree with him without naming names. He even mentions in the article that he isn't going to quote those tweets. So why can't he make examples of people who are being awful towards the Flappy Bird dev without naming names? Maybe because he would really like to shame those people.

Again, I'm not saying those people aren't assholes, and maybe they deserve shaming, but an editorial about being nice on the internet might not be the best place to do it. Leading by example and all.

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xite

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Edited By xite

People aren't inherently horrible, people are duuuuuuuuumb. It's a lot easier to teach kids to not act like dicks on the internet than it is to bring in some controversial legislation in regards to censorship on the internet or whatever. I know bullying is still rampant in schools but I think people are becoming a lot more socially aware of the issues surrounding it and it's only a matter of time before I can see something like that applied to behavior on the internet. I think this article is a step in the right direction, even if it could use a little more tact. Patrick's heart is in the right place at least.

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Gold_Skulltulla

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I do wonder how much crossover there is between those who make these horrible comments and those who discuss the horrible comments. Sort of a Tale of Two Twitter Feeds, no? We can condemn this behavior all day and reinforce good behavior, but I doubt the folks who write death threats are reading articles about the consequences of their actions and reflecting on them. Not saying it hasn't happened or that this sort of discussion isn't worthwhile (on the contrary for the latter), but I think the real work to be done is in bringing the offending voices to the table in some form. This is a systemic issue, so I don't know what it's worth bringing shame upon individuals (maybe worth something though), but something on a broader level that reinforces decent behavior from an early age.