Persona 4 Post-Mortem Tells You What Went Right, Wrong

" Chie with a bulge. Mmm...now that's hot. "

" @MrKlorox said:

" I'm not into cartoon ladies with crotch bulges and hairlips. "

That's not what your momz told me. "

" @SpiritOf said:

" @MrKlorox said:

" I'm not into cartoon ladies with crotch bulges and hairlips. "

That's not what your momz told me. "

what are you, 8? "

The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained.
That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job.

If they want to go with an action game...might want to try and make it into an adventure game. At least somewhat. 
 
Perhaps make more puzzles in the dungeon crawling areas to make it a little similar to the Mario RPG games in terms of puzzle solving?

" @growl said:

" @SpiritOf said:

" @MrKlorox said:

" I'm not into cartoon ladies with crotch bulges and hairlips. "

That's not what your momz told me. "

what are you, 8? "

I dunno, that was pretty funny for a 8 eight year old. "

" @Gregomasta said:

" @growl said:

" @SpiritOf said:

" @MrKlorox said:

" I'm not into cartoon ladies with crotch bulges and hairlips. "

That's not what your momz told me. "

what are you, 8? "

I dunno, that was pretty funny for a 8 eight year old. "

Yup. Any "your mom" reference is automatic comedy gold. No matter how inane. >_> "

Full on action game sounds cool coming from these guys

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

I'm kind of amazed that they didn't mention a "shuffle button" for fusions, as it is one of those good quality of game things mentioned previously, and on the ER itself many a time.
 
Also, Jeff: P4 is surprisingly easy on fusion learning; there isn't any real drive to get great persona till the 65+, and even then there are fusion fodder like Tzitzimitl late in the game, in addition to ringers (some of which you used, Senri, Black Frost, and Tam Lin). 
 
Nocturne on the other hand, which I cut my SMT teeth on, oh, the difference.

Persona and Persona 3 on PSP, hmmmmmmmm... me thinks me crystal ball is lighting up

"I think you folks criticizing the drawing in this article should chill out.  It was obviously created by a member and I think you are being unnecessarily harsh.  But, it wouldn't be the internet if people weren't finding fault with any little detail.  Way to live up to the stereotype. "

" @LordAndrew said:

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

Yeah.  They could have actually gotten much more information on the fusion system quite easily had they read through the tutorials by talking to Igor. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @LordAndrew said:

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

Yeah.  They could have actually gotten much more information on the fusion system quite easily had they read through the tutorials by talking to Igor. "

I think they could do the explanation in a more meaningful, direct way, reading through tutorials isn't necessarily broken, but it's not a great way of explaining how mechanics work. Perhaps having a voiced-over demonstration with Igor's voice queuing the tutorial on, who knows? My point being is that I can't read through a blanket of text, going over something that I'd understand more if they had a visual and or audio aid to accompany it, and if I cannot read it, I'm likely to believe other people will get turned off as well.  "

" @CommodoreGroovy said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @LordAndrew said:

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

Yeah.  They could have actually gotten much more information on the fusion system quite easily had they read through the tutorials by talking to Igor. "

I think they could do the explanation in a more meaningful, direct way, reading through tutorials isn't necessarily broken, but it's not a great way of explaining how mechanics work. Perhaps having a voiced-over demonstration with Igor's voice queuing the tutorial on, who knows? My point being is that I can't read through a blanket of text, going over something that I'd understand more if they had a visual and or audio aid to accompany it, and if I cannot read it, I'm likely to believe other people will get turned off as well.  "

While the tutorial structure could have been more directly informative, I don't think it was necessarily as bad as Jeff and Vinny really made it out to be.  My first experience with the Megami Tensei fusion style was through Persona 3.  I read the tutorials, and there was still some learning as I went, but I think part of the fun I had with it was learning some of the details through trial rather than being shown. "

The big thing is the manual provides you with a 1x1 fusing table for arcana which is really helpful in targeting persona of arcanas you have high SLs in.

" @Hailinel said:

" @CommodoreGroovy said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @LordAndrew said:

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

Yeah.  They could have actually gotten much more information on the fusion system quite easily had they read through the tutorials by talking to Igor. "

I think they could do the explanation in a more meaningful, direct way, reading through tutorials isn't necessarily broken, but it's not a great way of explaining how mechanics work. Perhaps having a voiced-over demonstration with Igor's voice queuing the tutorial on, who knows? My point being is that I can't read through a blanket of text, going over something that I'd understand more if they had a visual and or audio aid to accompany it, and if I cannot read it, I'm likely to believe other people will get turned off as well.  "

While the tutorial structure could have been more directly informative, I don't think it was necessarily as bad as Jeff and Vinny really made it out to be.  My first experience with the Megami Tensei fusion style was through Persona 3.  I read the tutorials, and there was still some learning as I went, but I think part of the fun I had with it was learning some of the details through trial rather than being shown. "

I agree.  When I first experienced fusing in Persona 3 FES, I immediately got it.  1 Persona + 1 Persona = 1 stronger Persona, and that's really all it comes down to.  Certain Persona can learn certain moves and certain arcana of Persona fused together will make another specific arcana, but really, who cares?  You can learn all the intricacies of fusing if you want to, but that's really not necessary for success in fighting in the game.  I read the tutorials, and sure there were some things I did not grasp (some I still don't), but after a few fusions, I understood it pretty much.  Fusing really is not that intimidating. "

" @FluxWaveZ said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @CommodoreGroovy said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @LordAndrew said:

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

Yeah.  They could have actually gotten much more information on the fusion system quite easily had they read through the tutorials by talking to Igor. "

I think they could do the explanation in a more meaningful, direct way, reading through tutorials isn't necessarily broken, but it's not a great way of explaining how mechanics work. Perhaps having a voiced-over demonstration with Igor's voice queuing the tutorial on, who knows? My point being is that I can't read through a blanket of text, going over something that I'd understand more if they had a visual and or audio aid to accompany it, and if I cannot read it, I'm likely to believe other people will get turned off as well.  "

While the tutorial structure could have been more directly informative, I don't think it was necessarily as bad as Jeff and Vinny really made it out to be.  My first experience with the Megami Tensei fusion style was through Persona 3.  I read the tutorials, and there was still some learning as I went, but I think part of the fun I had with it was learning some of the details through trial rather than being shown. "

I agree.  When I first experienced fusing in Persona 3 FES, I immediately got it.  1 Persona + 1 Persona = 1 stronger Persona, and that's really all it comes down to.  Certain Persona can learn certain moves and certain arcana of Persona fused together will make another specific arcana, but really, who cares?  You can learn all the intricacies of fusing if you want to, but that's really not necessary for success in fighting in the game.  I read the tutorials, and sure there were some things I did not grasp (some I still don't), but after a few fusions, I understood it pretty much.  Fusing really is not that intimidating. "

Right, fusing personae isn't rocket science. But to someone who has no experience with this genre, it can feel very foreign and difficult. Like Jeff has said in one of his blogs, the genre is growing into a taller and taller wall, that is only accessible to those who are already well-versed in the gameplay. RPG developers need to concentrate on having accessibility for their games mechanics in a direct and meaningful manner, so you don't exclude the newcomers. "

" @CommodoreGroovy said:

" @FluxWaveZ said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @CommodoreGroovy said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @LordAndrew said:

" The fusion system is rather complex, and its intricacies are not easily explained. That said, I felt the game's attempt at explaining the basics of fusion (which Jeff and Vinny never actually read) did a pretty good job. "

Yeah.  They could have actually gotten much more information on the fusion system quite easily had they read through the tutorials by talking to Igor. "

I think they could do the explanation in a more meaningful, direct way, reading through tutorials isn't necessarily broken, but it's not a great way of explaining how mechanics work. Perhaps having a voiced-over demonstration with Igor's voice queuing the tutorial on, who knows? My point being is that I can't read through a blanket of text, going over something that I'd understand more if they had a visual and or audio aid to accompany it, and if I cannot read it, I'm likely to believe other people will get turned off as well.  "

While the tutorial structure could have been more directly informative, I don't think it was necessarily as bad as Jeff and Vinny really made it out to be.  My first experience with the Megami Tensei fusion style was through Persona 3.  I read the tutorials, and there was still some learning as I went, but I think part of the fun I had with it was learning some of the details through trial rather than being shown. "

I agree.  When I first experienced fusing in Persona 3 FES, I immediately got it.  1 Persona + 1 Persona = 1 stronger Persona, and that's really all it comes down to.  Certain Persona can learn certain moves and certain arcana of Persona fused together will make another specific arcana, but really, who cares?  You can learn all the intricacies of fusing if you want to, but that's really not necessary for success in fighting in the game.  I read the tutorials, and sure there were some things I did not grasp (some I still don't), but after a few fusions, I understood it pretty much.  Fusing really is not that intimidating. "

Right, fusing personae isn't rocket science. But to someone who has no experience with this genre, it can feel very foreign and difficult. Like Jeff has said in one of his blogs, the genre is growing into a taller and taller wall, that is only accessible to those who are already well-versed in the gameplay. RPG developers need to concentrate on having accessibility for their games mechanics in a direct and meaningful manner, so you don't exclude the newcomers. "

The same could be said of other genres, though.  Accessibility is something that any developer needs to be aware of.  At the same time, make things too accessible and you risk sacrificing complexity that veterans desire.  The only way I could see myself enjoying an RTS game is if it were dumbed down to the point that anyone that made it through the campaign of StarCraft would feel insulted. "

" @Hailinel:  Touché.  Balance is key in situating a formula, from what I read of the post-mortem they did lots of tweaking on Persona 4. No matter how frustrating the process was, it really made Persona 4, an outstanding quality product. I just believe one of the things they should have tweaked was a better explanation of the mechanics of the velvet room.    Speaking of which, I really crave some Persona now. *pops disc into tv* "

Waitaminnit.  Endurance run?  Persona 4?  What are these things of which you speak?

Wnile I do admit that I could not brave the impenetrable fog of fusing at first, I managed to pick it up eventually. It helps that you can't make that much in the beginning. The weather was just fine, though.

I hope it comes to the ps3 i would love to see what they could do with a blue ray. 200 hour game anyone. Or hell persona 4 FES that would also be cool.

" I hope it comes to the ps3 i would love to see what they could do with a blue ray. 200 hour game anyone. Or hell persona 4 FES that would also be cool. "