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Raising Mental Illness Awareness Via Games

Asylum Jam, taking place this upcoming weekend, is gathering developers to widen the scope of horror.

“Crazy” people are a common horror trope. Insane asylums are often used as settings in the genre. Even gaming’s indie horror darling, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, has “sanity” as a gameplay mechanic.

Outlast was set in an insane asylum, though to be fair, its inmates were largely criminals.
Outlast was set in an insane asylum, though to be fair, its inmates were largely criminals.

Mental illness, a very real problem, is often used as a way to scare us. Asylum Jam, taking place October 11 through October 13, hopes to encourage designers to think more broadly about horror's potential.

“This jam is to show that you can still create a great horror experience without using inaccurate stereotypes of those who suffer from mental illness, or the institutions that support them in diagnosis and recovery,” reads the jam’s website.

Asylum Jam came into being thanks to Lucy Morris. She read an article on Kotaku by Ian Mahar titled “Nobody Wins When Horror Games Stigmatize Mental Illness” from earlier this year.

“Popular media drive popular beliefs, which lead to reinforcement, adaptation, or abandonment of stigmatic views,” said Mahar.

You don't have to spend much time to come up with horror game or movie that's riffed on mental illness.

Morris was inspired, and it helped she'd organized numerous game jams in the past. She settled on the name Asylum Jam as a way of ironically commenting on the problem at hand.

“There’s a positive way to both hone developer’s skills and to sometimes get a message across or create awareness,” she said.

Morris’ brother works in mental health care, and is training to be a nurse. Her stepfather aids the disabled.

Neverending Nightmares is a recent example of a game designer channeling his mental illness into a video game.
Neverending Nightmares is a recent example of a game designer channeling his mental illness into a video game.

Of course, Morris made it clear she doesn’t think games that have used traditional horror tropes, especially ones culling from mental illness stereotypes, are necessarily bad games. Instead, Morris hopes Asylum Jam encourages developers to come up with new ways of scaring players.

“Horror is usually derived from what we don’t understand,” she said. “There isn’t a lot of mental illness health awareness out of there, and I think that’s partly what has driven it to become a trope. The fact that it’s glorified in horror movies and video games and comics--all media, for so long--it’s just eventually come to this point where we expect to see these things.”

As developers started registering, Morris has heard some interesting stories and motivations for participation. One developer diagnosed with schizophrenia wants to make a game that illustrates what it’s like to live with vivid hallucinations. Another developer hopes to honor a co-worker’s recent suicide.

“Horror is usually derived from what we don’t understand. There isn’t a lot of mental illness health awareness out of there, and I think that’s partly what has driven it to become a trope."

We may be seeing the start of a trend in the horror genre, actually. Retro/Grade developer Matt Gilgenbach recently closed a successful Kickstarter to develop Neverending Nightmares, a game that specifically draws from his lifelong experience with various forms of mental illness.

“I have had quite a few emails from people,” said Morris, “who have said ‘yeah, I have suffered from mental illness, and I’d really like to actually create a horror game, create a game that shows awareness of my illness in particular, and portray it accurately, so people can really understand what we go through.’ I think that’s a really important step forward.”

More than 150 developers have currently committed to being part to Asylum Jam, which doesn’t count the developers showing up to physical locations throughout the world. With those, the number could well exceed 200, and it’s likely many others will spontaneously show up during the weekend. All of the games will be available through the game’s website when it closes Sunday. It's not too late to sign up, if you're interested.

“Game jams are a really positive way to bring awareness to an issue,” said Morris, “because you’re not sitting there saying ‘oh, this is wrong with the industry! But I’m not going to do anything about it.’ Over 150 people are going to come together and do something about it. It’s a positive response--being creative to move away from these tropes and explore.”

Patrick Klepek on Google+

85 Comments

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ruthj240

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my roomate's sister-in-law makes $75 every hour on the laptop. She has been out of work for 6 months but last month her paycheck was $20467 just working on the laptop for a few hours. >>>>>>>> www.jobs60.com

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zodstein

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I hope Patrick has a folder for all of his causes, I know I've been unable to trak them.

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rabbithearted

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I love this! Any chance for a follow-up article when the weekend is over?

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deathfromace

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I like the general idea of making horror games that don't involve mental illness, but the name "Asylum Jam" is really crass and tacky. The images and framing involved in the reporting of it also seem really inconsiderate.

Seems to be the point...

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DannyHibiki

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I like the general idea of making horror games that don't involve mental illness, but the name "Asylum Jam" is really crass and tacky. The images and framing involved in the reporting of it also seem really inconsiderate.

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misterbuns

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@dvorak: Hey buddy! Maybe before you started spouting a bunch of cursewords and telling Patrick to stop writing, you should've visited the AsylumJam website.

I quote...

The purpose of this jam is for individuals or teams to create a horror game on any platform or of any type that simply follow the following stipulation, inspired by Ian Mahar’s article ‘Nobody Wins When Horror Games Stigmatize Mental Illness’ (http://kotaku.com/nobody-wins-when-horror-games-stigmatize-mental-illness-912462538):

1.) You should not use asylums, psychiatric institutes, medical professionals or violent/antipathic/’insane’ patients as settings or triggers (someexamples of what we’re steering away from.)

This jam is to show that you can still create a great horror experience without using inaccurate stereotypes of those who suffer from mental illness, or the institutions that support them in diagnosis and recovery.

Now, where does it say that it has to be a scary game about mental illness? Could you point it out to me? Because unless I'm missing something, it seems like the point of AsylumJam is exactly the opposite.

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TowerSixteen

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Edited By TowerSixteen

@nmckee503: I agree with you! I don't think looking at mental illness through the lens of horror is in any way bad. That just isn't necessarily communicated by a single picture. All it seems to do is reinforce the stereotypical misconception of what mental illness is. I've had two people in my life effected by that shame that is associated with mental illness. One of them was able to talk about it in time. I think it's an issue worth being sensitive about.

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Nmckee503

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Edited By Nmckee503

@redhorn said:
@patrickklepek said:

@towersixteen said:

Hey just a heads up? There's still a lot of stigma to mental illness, and the article image kinda plays into it rather strongly. Too many people are too ashamed of that kinda thing, and using a person in a white room tied to a bed as a visual shorthand for "Mental Illness"....well, people don't admit or talk about illnesses sometimes BECAUSE that's the image it unfortunately invokes. Just some gentle criticism.

The header image is meant to be, in line with the jam's name, ironic and about the problems the jam is hoping to illuminate through its games. The disagreements with Morris' perspectives are noted, but they are also hers. She's the one running the jam.

I don't know what is supposed to tip it off as irony. I think that would depend on a societal familiarity with what psychiatric hospitals are actually like- which does not exist. Run an image search for "psychiatric hospital." That is what people expect to see and this does not conflict with that expectation. I read the whole article and still think it is gross. Intended to be ironic or not, now everyone who goes to this site for the next day or so will have another destructive caricature of mental illness and psychiatric care deposited in their subconscious.

It's a small drop in the bucket but we already have way too many drops.

Aye, this? I didn't assume you meant any harm, and your right that it does fit with how the thing is named, but I think you underestimated just how mainstream and ingrained that view of mental illness is. As much as it sucks, I don't think either the name of the jam or the image particularly reads as ironic, even though that's absurd and of course it should.

I'm in two minds about this (sorry for the unintentional pun), I suffer from mental illness, I'm not offended when I see stuff like this. Of course, I'm not saying that I am the standard this should be judged against, there are people far worse off than me who could better tell you if it's offensive, or not offensive. One thing I'll say though: Pretty much every horror movie I watch, I can equate to mental illness, and I kinda like that? It's an interesting way to explore my own fears about my mind. Of course there is still a stigma about mental health, which is horrible and I'm ashamed to talk about it to people, but I don't feel horror causes that. I'm doing my own bit to address the stigma (I'm a filmmaker, and addressing it though documentary at the minute), and I think there's a context for addressing it, but I don't feel horror needs to become the arbiter in this matter. To me, horror holds up a mirror to society, it shows us what we are afraid of, personally and culturally, and I feel that is enough. Horror doesn't have to have solutions, just show us the facts. Of course, it can have a larger message, but I don't think not having that message is offensive.

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bacongames

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I don't think I have much of a perspective to weigh on this one way or another but I wonder how people with mental illness that have been through treatment or mental health professions would interpret certain scenes in The Darkness II or Alan Wake. I say this because these two games use mental illness to instill a sense of feeling trapped or frustrated rather than horror. Inevitably they layer their particular weirdness on top but I don't think it's the same as The Suffering or Outlast.

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Mezmero

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This is going to be the illest. I apologize, that was terrible. I haven't been to a therapist in like two decades but I'm pretty sure there's still something horribly wrong with my mental state.

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jasondesante

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I want to see a game where every character ignores you, but asks you questions and doesn't accept anything you say and then starts getting mad at you and blaming you for stuff. Like you can walk into a room and then the NPCs start bitching because you walked into the room the wrong way or something like that. Just NPCs that don't care anything about what you are inputting besides taking it the wrong way and getting pissed off at you for it.

Its just like real life. Others contributing to someone feeling like they are insane just because all those other people are unable to communicate properly or have such ridiculous tempers that they get mad at nothing.

Sounds like horror to me.

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DJJoeJoe

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Speaking of Mental Illness and the quest to raise awareness for how much it is at the core of some really lame issues that result in society, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned already but the really great podcast The Mental Illness Happy Hour is a beautifully enjoyable listen regardless of your own personal level of mental illness.

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JasonR86

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Some of these comments are just the epitome of idiotic.

Except mine right? My shit was genius and shit.

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MariachiMacabre

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Some of these comments are just the epitome of idiotic.

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hyst

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Edited By hyst

@sravankb said:

I will only play these games if they provide some sort of solution to the problem; I don't care for a simple "addressing the issue" angle on the thing.

It doesn't have to explicitly explain how to solve it, but if it's just an expression of how a depressed person feels to the general public, I couldn't care less. I have enough of that shit in my life to actively try and experience it through my entertainment.

I think that's a fair point. So many people, so many things out there want to "address an issue" but really offer nothing of any use other than generating publicity. We so often see people from certain communities that want to talk about how they can help with some problem, but in most cases the very notion that they believe they can help is somewhat insulting to those that actually experience that problem.

I'm not saying these are applicable to this jam, just that it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical about outcomes, or even suspicious of intentions. People like to think that their hobby or work or passion is applicable to everything else in life, but in many cases it simply isn't, even if their intentions are genuinely good.

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TowerSixteen

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Edited By TowerSixteen

@redhorn said:
@patrickklepek said:

@towersixteen said:

Hey just a heads up? There's still a lot of stigma to mental illness, and the article image kinda plays into it rather strongly. Too many people are too ashamed of that kinda thing, and using a person in a white room tied to a bed as a visual shorthand for "Mental Illness"....well, people don't admit or talk about illnesses sometimes BECAUSE that's the image it unfortunately invokes. Just some gentle criticism.

The header image is meant to be, in line with the jam's name, ironic and about the problems the jam is hoping to illuminate through its games. The disagreements with Morris' perspectives are noted, but they are also hers. She's the one running the jam.

I don't know what is supposed to tip it off as irony. I think that would depend on a societal familiarity with what psychiatric hospitals are actually like- which does not exist. Run an image search for "psychiatric hospital." That is what people expect to see and this does not conflict with that expectation. I read the whole article and still think it is gross. Intended to be ironic or not, now everyone who goes to this site for the next day or so will have another destructive caricature of mental illness and psychiatric care deposited in their subconscious.

It's a small drop in the bucket but we already have way too many drops.

Aye, this? I didn't assume you meant any harm, and your right that it does fit with how the thing is named, but I think you underestimated just how mainstream and ingrained that view of mental illness is. As much as it sucks, I don't think either the name of the jam or the image particularly reads as ironic, even though that's absurd and of course it should.

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Valdez

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Edited By Valdez

I suffer from major depressive, general anxiety, social anxiety, avoidant personality, and obsessive compulsive personality disorders. When I'm not on medication, I wake up in the morning and the first thought that pops into my head is that I want to die. Every day. That I am successful and have a good, comfortable life by any standard is irrelevant. I don't control these thoughts and feelings. My anxieties and personality disorders make it impossible for me to make choices and move forward with things. I freeze up when confronted with the simplest of dilemmas.

With medication I do a lot better. A lot better.

No one that I haven't told about my problems is aware of them. It's extremely easy to hide because I'm intelligent, rational, and know how to simulate charisma despite my intense anxiety. (I am aware that one could argue that "simulate" is the wrong word if it works on people. I'm just talking about how it feels.) I keep it secret from most not because I'm ashamed (I'm not!) but because I don't want to deal with the fallout. Closed doors, burned bridges, and a torrent of useless, if well meaning, "advice."

In any case, I think a lot of the hand wringing about this game jam only reinforcing the problem of social stigma is unwarranted. Being suicidal is horrific. I can't imagine how it feels to suffer from bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, or any kind of severe paranoia. Checking into a psychiatric hospital was easily the most terrifying thing I've ever done.

I've had some powerful experiences with games that use game play to give the player some inkling of the trials some people face that they've never even considered. Mattie Brice's transgender game Mainichi comes to mind.

Nothing can possibly come out of this that will increase the level of stigma attached to psychiatric disorders in anyone's mind. People without prejudices will not suddenly gain them from a poorly executed game. At worst, people with prejudice will have one more piece of media among a million to reinforce their beliefs.

If even a single game from the jam generates enough momentum to become a full game that people want to play and effectively aids understanding and empathy, it will have been a success. Even if no game does, the effort will have been worth it. The precedent for trying will have been set.

Also, I fucking love horror games, so I'm excited to see what comes out of this on a personal level. They're the perfect medium to simulate the stresses of mental illness.

Patrick, thanks for bringing this to people's attention.

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Redhorn

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Edited By Redhorn

@towersixteen said:

Hey just a heads up? There's still a lot of stigma to mental illness, and the article image kinda plays into it rather strongly. Too many people are too ashamed of that kinda thing, and using a person in a white room tied to a bed as a visual shorthand for "Mental Illness"....well, people don't admit or talk about illnesses sometimes BECAUSE that's the image it unfortunately invokes. Just some gentle criticism.

The header image is meant to be, in line with the jam's name, ironic and about the problems the jam is hoping to illuminate through its games. The disagreements with Morris' perspectives are noted, but they are also hers. She's the one running the jam.

I don't know what is supposed to tip it off as irony. I think that would depend on a societal familiarity with what psychiatric hospitals are actually like- which does not exist. Run an image search for "psychiatric hospital." That is what people expect to see and this does not conflict with that expectation. I read the whole article and still think it is gross. Intended to be ironic or not, now everyone who goes to this site for the next day or so will have another destructive caricature of mental illness and psychiatric care deposited in their subconscious.

It's a small drop in the bucket but we already have way too many drops.

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LaszloKovacs

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Edited By LaszloKovacs

This seems well-intentioned but destined to be ham-fisted and terrible.

Like, moving away from portraying all mentally ill people as dangerous criminals is a good thing, but continuing to use mental illness as a prop in a horror game is NOT better.

If you want an example of a mentally ill person being treated with empathy and maturity, try Dear Esther. Don't go looking for it here.

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oasisbeyond

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My ex has a mental illness, I'll tell you what wouldn't wish it on anyone. In games or movies, even back in the day they thought people were possessed by the devil and stuff... But no, they have a mental illness, it's real and no one wins in the end. It's like Amy Winehouse, everyone thought we was crazy stupid, yet she was suffering but just didn't realize it cuz that what mental illness does to you. You don't think logically anymore. Trevor is GTA is a good example, clearly this guy needs help, yet we just call him a crazy guy who likes to do crazy shit, but the dude needs therapy and meds.

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BeachThunder

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Edited By BeachThunder

That's wonderful.

We need more horror games with Krakens.

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Edited By TheDudeOfGaming

It's sad how the majority of the world treat people suffering from mental illnesses. It can even be a relatively harmless dysfunction for someone to start judging.

More on topic, don't see how you're going to bring about an honest portrayal of mental illness. One that makes us empathize with the characters if, at the same time, you're trying to make a horror game. I think David Cage should take a few notes from this developer, at least from a plot perspective... instead of the rogue CIA agent girl that has a ghost friend. But I hope they can pull it off and write an interesting story with great characters

Finally, completely off topic. I despise the term raising awareness, as well as what it means in practice. Yep, wearing a red fucking ribbon is going to help those suffering from aids. But that's just because I'm an extreme asshole I guess.

Regardless, great article Patrick.

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jackbugs

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Yeah, interested to see what sorts of things come from this. Plenty of ways to increase mental health awareness without resorting to stock standard themes and, especially, goofy horror trappings.There's a whole spectrum of (multi)cultural attitudes and conceptualizations of mental health to draw from.

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tonygxp

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We get it, Patrick, we get it.

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jasius

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Girl on that bed is ready for some action!

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baconbutty

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"Mental illness, a very real problem,... "

Alright, thanks. I had no idea.

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velocinox

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Edited By velocinox

Please don't do this.

Mental illness is already associated with institutionalization and 'crazy'.

This attitude is what makes people afraid of it. It's a prevalent belief that mental illness is automatically severe insanity. Images of restraints and asylums do not help.

Mental illness is battled at a much earlier stage. Mental health is often as simple as being happy. (Though always being happy is not the goal of mental health.) Prolonged unhappiness is the real face of mental illness and can be treated. Treating it this early and ADMITTING IT, allows a prevention of severe mental illnesses.

In physical health care terms, it's like we ignore the pain in our shoulder and the numbness in our arm because it's not really an illness, only when we have the full blown heart attack is it an illness and treatable.

If we approached mental illness with the same eye towards prevention as we do physical health care we could end a lot of the things we think we have to just live with, like much of the violent crime, and suicides, all the way down to something as simple as internet cruelty and harassment.

Sorry for the soapbox and I'm not trying to flame anyone. I just think we could really improve everyone's quality of life if we approach mental health care like we approach physical health care, and we stop immediately thinking of it as being 'crazy'.

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YummyTreeSap

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Edited By YummyTreeSap

I don't think that psychiatric hospitals etc. are necessarily a stigma against mental illness. You don't even have to go back all that far back in time (and shit, there have even been recent cases) to where the goings on in those places were, for lack of a better phrase, pretty fucked up. I think when horror uses that setting it's playing more on that fact more than mental illness itself being something to be afraid of (certainly not saying that that doesn't happen, though).

Anyway, I think some of you are missing the point. I get why some of you are sort of hung up on the genre, but from what it sounds, they're trying to go about it in a different way. Using already-established tropes (i.e. mental illnesses in horror) and twisting them a bit to combat those very same tropes, etc. The common theme re mental illness in horror media is along the lines of equating the actual person with mental illness as being unsettling or a threat or what have you. This game jam seems to be making an attempt to make the illnesses themselves the scary part, not the people who have them. That's a pretty significant distinction, I think, and one certainly worth digging into. If any of these games contribute to humanizing the subjects of mental illness and through humanity's general horror of the unknown/-experienced, give the general user a glimpse, as you will, at what it can be like to endure a mental illness, then they've done their job well.

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cikame

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I think there's a difference between characters in games acting strangely, like Angela or Eddie in Silent Hill 2, and characters who represent a known mental illness. I can't actually think of any for the latter except in Max Payne 2 when in a dream state he witnesses mentally disturbed versions of himself.

I could understand being annoyed by the use of mental illness in comedy, of which i think is kind of cheap, but unless i've managed to miss alot of it video games have been pretty sensible about mental illness.
The patients in Outlast are all victims of the secret experiments at the hospital, not really the same thing as actual mental illness.

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Spoonman671

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Edited By Spoonman671

But I'm already aware of mental illness.

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patrickklepek

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I remember playing a free game earlier this year where you play as a black dot on a white background. It has a vertical scroll background with other black dots scrolling from top to bottom that move away from you if you try to touch them. At first I thought it was a game about loneliness/depression (Spoiler for a two minute game incoming) It goes on for about two minutes before the screen fades and it displays some message about problems/depression in Korea.

It was a pretty surreal experience playing it. Kind of like when you watch a play with no talking. The actions and music speak louder. Does anyone know the game I'm talking about because I can't find it on google anymore.

Is it Freedom Bridge? http://www.necessarygames.com/my-games/freedom-bridge

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JasonR86

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@zfubarz:

My only real concern is the genre. I think another genre, like an adventure game, would have been a better fit with less of a chance to stigmatize. But this is a snap judgement and honestly whenever I see anything relating to mental health not in a scientific journal I kind of cringe an expect the worst which really isn't fair. I hope something cool comes from the jam. And I really do appreciate what they are trying to do.

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Rebel_Scum

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I remember playing a free game earlier this year where you play as a black dot on a white background. It has a vertical scroll background with other black dots scrolling from top to bottom that move away from you if you try to touch them. At first I thought it was a game about loneliness/depression (Spoiler for a two minute game incoming) It goes on for about two minutes before the screen fades and it displays some message about problems/depression in Korea.

It was a pretty surreal experience playing it. Kind of like when you watch a play with no talking. The actions and music speak louder. Does anyone know the game I'm talking about because I can't find it on google anymore.

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patrickklepek

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Edited By patrickklepek

@towersixteen said:

Hey just a heads up? There's still a lot of stigma to mental illness, and the article image kinda plays into it rather strongly. Too many people are too ashamed of that kinda thing, and using a person in a white room tied to a bed as a visual shorthand for "Mental Illness"....well, people don't admit or talk about illnesses sometimes BECAUSE that's the image it unfortunately invokes. Just some gentle criticism.

The header image is meant to be, in line with the jam's name, ironic and about the problems the jam is hoping to illuminate through its games. The disagreements with Morris' perspectives are noted, but they are also hers. She's the one running the jam.

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zFUBARz

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Ahh cool, I was wondering if you got my Tumblr message.

@jasonr86 You know I respect your opinion on these matters as we've discussed many times, but I see something like this as a net positive, if enough of the games are interesting, have a good variety of perspectives, show the scary sides, the interesting sides, and hell the fun sides of mental illness as a package it could be pretty neat. I wouldn't necessarily expect to get something ground breaking from 48 hours of development, but I think it can still be worthwhile. I mean what other medium has the potential to really get across the feeling/emotion of the range of problems we face, from the criminally insane, the manic drug induced schizophrenic, to the depressed 50 year old mother of three that has so much anxiety she's lost her job and her family is confused and scared and about to abandon her.

My point is there's a lot to go on, and if they use all of it, it could be cool. And given the awesome games we've been getting in the last year or so, Gone Home, Neverending Nightmares, Braid. Not to mention the huge amount of Twine based games, I think the industry might be ready to start tackling something like this responsibly.

@blister Dude first off you're spouting some misinformation there, and as Jason said there are different types of therapy, and different techniques will work better or worse for every patient His technique probably works well for the majority of his patients, and the ones who don't benefit, well any good doctor will be the first to tell you if it's a bad fit and you should see somebody else. So yeah take it easy,

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Deusoma

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Edited By Deusoma

Speaking as a man who has struggled with mental illness in the past, this is inventing a problem where a problem doesn't exist, but their hearts are in the right place, so I wish the best of luck to them. :-)

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dvorak

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Edited By dvorak

Yeah associating mental illness with horror and scary images is a great idea...

Are you fucking stupid? If you have been following any of the current issues regarding mental illness, you would know that this is precisely the thing mental health non-profit groups are trying to avoid.

Psychopathy, and Schizophrenia in particular are already painted in a really negative light due to a long history of horror films attached to them. It makes it incredibly hard for those people to mention their illness without making others afraid or confused when they find out. Being afraid to talk about your illness is the biggest reason issues go untreated.

Once again Patrick, you fucked up with regard to mental illness, due to ignorance. Get a fucking clue, and just stop.

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mithical

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Edited By mithical

Part of an accurate portrayal of mental illness means showing a mentally ill person isn't someone to be afraid of. Making games that associate the mentally ill with horror only seems to undermine their purpose.

Besides, isn't the horror genre somewhat defined by taking something everyone knows and exaggerating parts of it, twisting it into something uncomfortable? Nobody is raising awareness of body image in horror games because the Slenderman is an inaccurate portrayal of the human body. The difference is it's obvious how inaccurate it is; Everyone sees accurate examples every day. The problem isn't really with how mental health is portrayed in horror. The problem is with how mental health is portrayed everywhere else.

I think a better idea would be to make games of all genres but horror that accurately portray mental illness. Give others a counterbalance to the extremes depicted in horror, instead of taking away what horror does best; Exaggerating and deforming the things we know to unsettle us.

Edit: The header image is a perfect example of why this is misguided. It's not an accurate portrayal of what mental illness is. But it is disturbing, possibly something right out of a horror game or movie. You can't really have it both ways.

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Edited By TowerSixteen

Hey just a heads up? There's still a lot of stigma to mental illness, and the article image kinda plays into it rather strongly. Too many people are too ashamed of that kinda thing, and using a person in a white room tied to a bed as a visual shorthand for "Mental Illness"....well, people don't admit or talk about illnesses sometimes BECAUSE that's the image it unfortunately invokes. Just some gentle criticism.