Something went wrong. Try again later

Giant Bomb News

567 Comments

Sticking the Landing

Patrick's lengthy conversation with Entertainment Weekly writer Jeff Jensen on that ending, the concept of fan entitlement, and the perils of player agency.

No Caption Provided

UPDATE: Make sure you read my story from last week, too: "When It's Over, It's Over." I consider this a compliment to that.

--

[Note: This story does contain spoilers about the ending to Mass Effect 3 and TV show The Sopranos.]

The conversation about Mass Effect 3 continues, albeit one that's died down in the past week. That's unsurprising, as players wait to hear about BioWare's next move.

Will the studio change the ending? I'm betting not. Will the studio release downloadable content that provides more context and closure, and will that probably have been the plan all along? I'd say that's likely, but remains unclear.

As part of my story last week about the intense, polarizing, and government-filled reaction to the ending, I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Entertainment Weekly senior writer Jeff Jensen, himself a fellow Mass Effect fan, devotee at the shrine of Lost, and a frequent commentator on pop culture. Much of our conversation did not make it into my piece, but it felt worth sharing, especially the discussions about the concept of fan "entitlement," the precarious nature of endings, and the design struggles of player agency.

Let's contextualize this a bit, too.

This chat happened just as BioWare made its first public statement to fans, and Jensen had not finished the game, though he had read about the endings. As such, we didn't dive much into the narrative misgivings players with the final moments of Mass Effect 3 (which, believe me, I'm with you on), and focuses on the bigger picture.

Hope you enjoy it. It's a bit talky.

-

Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.
Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.

Jeff Jensen: I’ll be honest with you, I only began playing Mass Effect 3 about a week and a half ago. I actually wasn’t really into it in the beginning, and I got distracted by other things, so I have to return to it, but catching up to the controversy is fascinating.

Giant Bomb: It’s interesting because, unlike other mediums, when there’s a television show, when theres’s a finale, or there’s a movie that’s a conclusion to some multi-part series, you can consume that in an hour-and-a-half, two hours. Mass Effect 3 took me 40 hours to finish. It’s not as simple as just booting it up one night so you can catch up, and find out what happened.

Jensen: You felt burned? Were you burned, personally?

GB: Not really. I was disappointed. They were going for something a little more audacious and bittersweet, and I do think a lot of the reaction has stemmed from that. A lot of people play these games to be the good guy that accomplishes everything, and video game endings, as a whole, the trope is that you’re the hero that’s unbeatable and everything turns out alright in the end. They went for something a little more mixed: things are out of your control. Bad things are going to happen no matter what you do, what choice you make. People have some real trouble processing that. Some wanted this “you saved the princess” ending that games have always have. Personally, as a player, it’s really important that they’re having this reaction. You don’t see that very often with a video game.

Jensen: A couple things about that. To prepare for this interview and other things that I’m working on, I actually went and read some sites and actually spoiled everything.

What I find interesting about what you're saying is that...it’s an interesting nuance that you’re talking about. It sounds like whatever scenario you choose, Earth blows up, right?

GB: Earth doesn’t necessarily get destroyed, but the mass relays do get destroyed. The thing that has allowed the universe to be unified, that goes away. In some sense, it’s the universe starting over. Some of them, Shepard dies, some of them, Shepard lives, but as far as I can tell, none of the endings I saw, and none of the endings I’ve read about, involve you saving the day in every capacity. There is no way, no matter what you do, that everything’s going to be alright for everybody. Bad shit happens at the end of Mass Effect 3, and there are consequences for that. I do think that’s part of the reaction--it’s an interesting reaction for BioWare to purposely provoke, but I think it’s an important one. In some way, it’s a commentary on the fact that these games are largely about player choice, and at the end, there’s a subversion of that. Part of this is out of your hands. Maybe that’s looking into it too much, but I do get a sense that there’s a purposeful subversion of the player to reflect that no matter what you do, bad things are going to happen.

Jensen: I really like what you’re saying. It sounds like what BioWare really wanted exactly the kind of dialogue that we are having here, which is, I think, they hoped we could get to the end and everyone that plays this game...it’s having exactly the kind of emotional experience that you’re having but also the kind of reflective experience that you’re having, which seems really worthwhile, and pretty quality. But instead, it gets unfortunately minimized into just the simple issue of satisfaction and catharsis and all that.

No Caption Provided

GB: Specifically, Lost was the first analogy that came to mind. I’m sure, as someone that writes a lot about TV and movies, you witness fan entitlement, or the sense of entitlement that fans feel when they’re on this long journey. Whether it’s a series of movies over several years or a TV show over several years, fans come to expect certain things. I’m curious what you’ve perceived over the years, whether from Lost or other shows and movies, how creators in those mediums deal with that sense of entitlement from fans, given the creators themselves have a vision in mind for how they want things to play out.

Jensen: What I would say that the controversies around the finales of Lost and Mass Effect and other examples, too, that we see in pop culture, like for example last year with the television show The Killing, which also kind of flummoxed a lot of people with how they ended the first season. What we are reminded of is that in entertainment, and especially in the mediums of television and video games, they are ultimately service industries. Which is to say the customer is always right, and that’s going to be frustrating for storytellers to hear because ultimately you exist, your product exists, at the whims and desire of your consumer base. If they’re happy, if they’re unhappy, they’re right. Even if they’re wrong, they’re right. You have to deal with it, right? You have to deal with it.

You look at BioWare’s response to this, the Facebook post last [week], and they are basically out there saying “We hear you, we understand your complaints, we’re looking at some possibilities about what to do, but we want you to know that we hear you.” This just goes to show that even if, behind the scenes, the creators at BioWare are like “Damnit, they didn’t get our story! To address the complaints represent a compromise of our artistic vision.” That sucks, but they’re right. You just have to deal with it.

The similarities between Lost and Mass Effect--there’s another similarity, too. Over the past decade in television, we’ve seen a creative medium come into its own and take some bold leaps forward, but there’s still some room to grow. I think after The Sopranos--or, more specifically, after Twin Peaks--I think a lot of TV storytellers became enamored with this notion that TV writing can be an art and I can be an artist, and I can have my own show and tell my own story and it’s my story, my world, my rules, and I’m going to tell you a story and you’re going to listen to it, and you’re going to follow it, and if I bring you to a certain end that is maybe not necessarily a happy ending or the ending that you want, it’s still my story. It has to be my story if it has any artistic integrity.

The audience push back is “no.” As much as the viewer benefits in this era of artist auteur television, in which the most interesting television is being made by singular creators with singular visions that are just telling their own story, viewers who become fans and who immerse themselves and give themselves over to it and devote so much time to thinking about it and talking about it and dreaming into it, they get a sense of ownership. Their agenda becomes projected onto your agenda. If you’re a writer, if you’re a television network, you benefit from that and you can’t run away from that because they’re keeping you in business. When you get to the end, sometimes what you have is this effect, this clash between shows that the artist, the writer, was creating and the show that the viewer, the fan, thought they were watching. When there’s no sync-up, there’s profound dissatisfaction. For the creators of Lost or the creator of The Sopranos, David Chase, that kind of sticks. At the very least, what you hope for is “Well, okay, you didn’t like my ending, but can you appreciate it? Or can we talk about it?” But, instead, that hopeful conversation gets swallowed up by the vitriol that comes with a more consumer orientation that’s more “I expected one thing and instead you gave me a lemon,” if that makes sense.

When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.
When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.

With video games, it’s interesting because I think video games are on a similar creative trajectory. Video games, the art of video games, has grown by leaps and bounds, I mean, ever since its introduction. The entire history of this medium is defined by radical innovation every other year, it seems. The exhilarating part of watching this industry is watching a medium of entertainment grow and blossom before its eyes, and there’s another aspect to it, too, which is very different from watching any other entertainment medium blossom over the past, you know, 100 years of pop culture, which is...I don’t know if people who were fans of movies or fans of rock music during the golden age of those periods said things like “it’s really cool now, but just wait 10 years from now, because we can all be where it’s going.” Video games are different. The best video games not only are really, really good, but as of right now, they capture your imagination for what they could be 10 to 15 years from now. We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do, even as we’re bucking up against its limitations here and now. And that brings me to Mass Effect.

The interesting thing about Mass Effect is that it’s on the cutting edge of this whole idea of player choice. There’s a sort of choose your own adventure kind of thing. My dilemma playing Mass Effect is usually, as much as I really appreciate the idea and I understand what they go for and I understand how it affects the story, at the same time, I’m always keenly aware that it never really does what I really want it to do. There’s some kind of creative, artificial intelligence within the game that is constantly changing the game in robust, profound ways in response to your choices, instead of just shunting you to one, two or three other options that don’t feel dramatically different from each other. They’re not choose your own adventure games, it’s choose your own nuance games. It seems like Mass Effect 3 butts up against that, especially with its ending, and also butts up against something else, too, which is...hearing about the controversy about Mass Effect 3, it makes me wonder if the artist creators of the game over at BioWare, how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?

At the end of the day, one of the exciting storylines that is emerging out of the past 10 years of video games are these creators who see video games as a means of artistic expression, a way of telling a story that expresses ideas that they want to challenge people with, that they want to get people talking to. And the most impactful way to do that is to limit potential interpretations and choices in a story, instead of opening it up open source like and making it everything you want it to be.

It seems to me that these possible endings that Mass Effect 3 gives us at the end of the game are like “Yeah, your choices throughout the game have affected your fate in terms of whether you live or die, they affect, to some degree, your character, but we still want a certain [set] of pre-determined endings that are designed to facilitate the certain point that we have about the world, certain ideas that we want you consider, certain conventions that we want to debunk, and pursuing an artistic agenda like that is tricky when you also want to create a game in which the player, in some ways, is being lead to believe they are the defining artistic decision maker in the game, if that makes sense.

No Caption Provided

GB: There’s definitely that rub between the player and the creator. An unintended consequence of BioWare’s player choice model was an end where players felt like they were gonna have more agency over that conclusion. And maybe it's not so much that they had written their own ending in their mind, but they’d made all these decisions along the way. Knowing game development, a lot of this is largely just a function of they have 18 months to produce a thing, so there’s only so many outcomes they can produce in X amount of time, but my large takeaway from all of this is that it’s a positive thing, showing how much players can care about a story.

But you’re right, once you’ve handed over the keys of the kingdom to the player, they also expect certain things. You can fall back to the passive entertainment experience excuse with TV and movies because the interactive part happens on the periphery and the creators can always retreat back to saying “at the end of the day, what matters is what’s canonical in the television series--that’s a passive experience that we’re writing and presenting.” But games aren’t that way. Mass Effect is definitely totally separate from that--it’s not just you shooting from the beginning of the level to the end of the level. You’re choosing which characters live and die, which races live and die, which planets survive and don’t. Once you’ve given people that power, you’ve opened the box, the genie is out of the bottle. Players feel like they should have this unique impact on this world and how it plays out, and it’s what makes the world "entitlement" feel...it doesn’t seem to work as well for the reaction. Entitlement’s a really easy word to apply to it, but in some sense, players should feel entitled when they’ve been told they’re the ones who are entitled to make these decisions.

When they get to an end that isn’t satisfying, an end where BioWare says they want to make a statement, that goes directly contrary to the player and the agency they had during that experience. I imagine, as a developer, that’s really tough, especially as games try to embrace this whole cinematic appeal and trying to take what lessons they can from other mediums. Games are inherently interactive, and when you start to take steps further to involving player in the story, you’re going to have consequences for the player’s emotional reaction when you take that away from them.

Jensen: There’s something that you’re also touching on here that I really like, which is a really good point. Regardless of your story, whatever medium you’re experiencing a story, what do we want from endings is a really big picture topic here. Some of the themes that you talked about at the beginning of our conversation here come into play, things like the video game experience offers you the chance to be a hero, and hero stories are all about taking their fate into their own hands and are able to impose their will on a world. They may succeed, they may fail, a lot of that depends on skill, but they get to impose their will on the world for better or worse. You go into a very long journey in which you are executing this kind of heroic function--you expect the opportunity to save the day. You think that should be an option that’s available to you, and, in this case, that’s not. In that way, a traditional ending, or what we want from an ending to that kind of story, is subverted. In other ways, just in general, what we want from endings is catharsis, especially a series finale.

When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.
When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.

Even though my guess is we may not see the Mass Effect the franchise, it seems to me what was being presented to us was that this is the end, this is the last game at least with this character, in a really involving, immersive, creative endeavor. Here, we really do see analogs to things like Lost or The Sopranos, where a fan base that’s large and rabid and loyal and passionate and really, really invested--they’re not only getting what the final game or final episode, the end of a story, they’re getting the door slammed on a huge part of their lives, a significant thing in their lives. To that end, an ending, then, must give you something more. There’s an expectation of something more. There’s something like a massive emotional catharsis. The ending of Lost really tried to go for that, they tried to win on emotion. “This is the end for all of us, my friends, and we’re all going away, in more ways than one. It’s been a long journey--bittersweet, sad, wonderful, joyous.” And they send us out with tears and a surge fo emotion. Lost completely triumphed int hat regard, but in other areas that people were expecting, the more intellectual areas, payoffs of certain storylines that people were invested in and mysteries that they were really invested in, the storytellers never said “We’re not necessarily as interested in that.” For a lot of people, that was a huge part of that entertainment experience, and they didn’t get it. The catharsis was incomplete.

There seems to be a similarity here with Mass Effect 3, with a fan base that has gone through these games and come to the end, and they want the full meal catharsis--they want everything. They want a heroic end, or the possibility of a heroic end. They want an emotional send-off, they want resolution of certain mysteries, and they all want it to be coherent and skillfully done, and all that. It sounds like Mass Effect just didn’t nail that landing.

GB: When I watched the end of Lost, the emotional arc worked perfectly fine. Yes, I was there for the mysteries and that was the fun of the week-to-week nature of that show, but at the end, I got the emotional closure with each of the characters. It’s different from player to player, just as with each viewer of Lost or any other television show. But with Mass Effect, what they brought to the end was, yes, the mysteries were important, and, yes, the resolution of the conflict with the Reapers was important, but it was the player’s agency. People talk about it in terms of the ending, but it was really just about these very binary choices presented in front of you that didn’t seem to reflect the agency that players had brought in throughout this entire adventure. As a result, they didn’t get get closure through their own agency, which was the motivational factor for these three games, which is why they brought their saved games from one game to the next. It’s interesting to see BioWare run into that as they start to contemplate how they address the reaction.

Jensen: I’m reminded of that whole idea of the observer effect, as well as schrodinger's cat. There’s a world of possibilities inside that box, until you get to the end and you get to the action of opening that box, and looking at it, and in that moment, then, all possibilities collapse and one remains, and only that option remains. Ultimately, then, this experience that was defined by the romance of mystery and possibility suddenly now becomes only defined by this one concrete resolution.

I’m reminded that with Lost--this is a show, week after week, captured your imagination and allowed you to dream into it an infinite number of possibilities and they were really good and clever about it. “What is going on? What is going on?” The interesting thing that happened about the end of Lost is that I honestly think the ending of Lost was an attempt by the show runners to actually communicate a specific point that they had, but while retaining, for the viewer, the quality that they identified as the defining characteristic of Lost, which was mystery, which was should the legacy of this show be one in which we’re still debating and still wondering and theorizing and still speculating years afterwards. I think they thought that by not being clear and concrete and definitive on many of the mysteries that people wanted resolved, they felt they were remaining thematically and artistically true to their creative enterprise and the entertainment experience that we had, which was the conversation about it, the debating about it, the comparison of theories about it, the arguing over it. They tried to thread that needle right at the end with an ending about, “how can we give closure and how can we end the story on our terms that is also satisfying to the audience but is true to the greater whole of this show?” Tricky, tricky. Because it makes you aware that you fundamentally usually watch something and endings usually come to us.

When we get an ending to a story or a final chapter of a story or a final shot, you realize that they’re fundamnetally different animals than the entertainment experience that preceeded it as a whole. The entertainment experience that preceeds an ending is all about sustained tension and sustained mystery, and that final thing is just resolution.

Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.
Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.

Endings often just can’t win. Most screenwriters will tell you the hardest part of any movie, any story to tell, is just the end. It’s the thing that changes the most, it’s the endings that are the most fought over among collaborators, they’re the things that are just the hardest to land. Some people get it really, really right, some people get it really, really wrong, and some people land anywhere in-between and our attitudes about them can change. The thing about controversial endings, though, is this: five years from now, my friend, we will all say that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was genius! We’ll catch up to it.

I’m not going to say that people feel that way about Lost, but I would say that people feel that way about The Sopranos. Many, many years after the ending of The Sopranos, The Sopranos just ignited a storm of “oh, that was genius! Genius!” “Genius? Are you kidding me? They wimped out! They didn’t have the guts to tell us what they wanted!” Which is the final fate of Tony Soprano. Defenders of that finale said “Yes, they did. Don’t you get it?” and the people who hate it go “Wait, you’re saying that I’m stupid?” And you go into that downward spiral. Years later, the truth of the matter is, the people who hated it then are probably no greater fans of it now, but in the cooling of it all, the cooling of the vitriol, there is some appreciation. There is grudging appreciation in that camp of “I get what he was saying. I get what he was going for.” And, ultimately, what you remember is that “I defined my enjoyment of that series not by that final moment, but by seven, eight seasons of the greatest television show even written.” That’s how we remember The Sopranos. I think that’s how that’s the fans of Lost are going to remember that show. I think that, for better or worse, the final season of that show will be remembered as something of a cautionary tale. I happen to love it. Do I love it as much as the five seasons before? No, but I really respect and like and was moved by what they did. I think, the further we get away from Lost, it will get more defined by the things that it did right and revolutionary versus the issue of audience satisfaction.

I think Mass Effect as a franchise, these three games taken together, I just can’t see how it’s not regarded as anything less than a landmark. There’s so many things to enjoy about these games and this world and the creative accomplishment of this series than just those final moments. When I played those first two games, the narrative arc of it is maybe one of the things I like the least. I love the way it looks, I love the character design, I love these worlds--there’s so much to really enjoy and love about it. Given some time, people will remember all of what they loved about this thing and now the resolution of it all.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

567 Comments

Avatar image for randombattle
randombattle

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By randombattle

This article doesn't make a lot of sense because none of the things mentioned are the reason why people are displeased with the ending. Yes people are upset and talk about these things but this is not WHY people dislike the ending. It fails to relate everything that happened to the ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBETU-uOGh8

I think this video explains it pretty well. People love say how they feel through out this whole debate but no one actually talks about why they feel that way in the first place. It's like babies first art.

Avatar image for tadthuggish
TadThuggish

1073

Forum Posts

334

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 41

Edited By TadThuggish

Honestly, I feel less entitled to a new Mass Effect 3 ending than I do to an apology for this sloppy-ass article.

Avatar image for zatoishwan
Zatoishwan

32

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Zatoishwan

Patrick: "The customer is always right".

No. I simply dont think so.

I do not want more Call of Duty. I get tired of always getting those perfect happy endings in (american) movies.

Not saying the ending is great. It could have been done a lot better. But I certainly dont feel robbed by not being able to get a flag-waving perfect happy ending. And I really, really hope this controversy will not mean that no one ever from now on will try to dare making something like this again.

Avatar image for truckington
truckington

57

Forum Posts

153

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By truckington

And you go into that downward spiral. Years later, the truth of the matter is, the people who hated it then are probably no greater fans of it now, but in the cooling of it all, the cooling of the vitriol, there is some appreciation.

This, to me, is the biggest difference between LOST, Sopranos and Mass Effect 3. When LOST and Sopranos were over, they were over. All the fans knew it was over. Since before the finales aired, they knew it would be over. The Mass Effect universe is not over. Even before Mass Effect 3 came out they were talking about there being more games in the Mass Effect universe and DLC plans for Mass Effect 3. It is one thing to go for an ending with that reaction when your are done completely. It is an entirely other thing to go for an ending with that reaction and then immediately turn around and start asking for more money from the people you just pissed off.

Avatar image for dr_mantas
dr_mantas

2557

Forum Posts

92

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

Edited By dr_mantas

I will offer advice I found on reddit. If you want a good ending, turn the game off the second Shepard loses consciousness. Don't wait for him to go up with that white platform.

Or even better, turn it off before the Admiral says that the crucible isn't working.

Someone should make a mod or something, that fades to black at that moment.

The entire game is the season finale, the ending to the trilogy.

Avatar image for zatoishwan
Zatoishwan

32

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Zatoishwan

@WiqidBritt: Exactly.

When I was standing listening to space kid and hearing him saying how impossible everything was I simply did not take it as absolute truth.

Anyways; in the end Illusive Man, the assasin and those reapers got what was coming to them and was closure enough on the Mass Effect series for me.

Avatar image for tanookigt
tanookigt

19

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By tanookigt

eh, I found it hard to read through the whole thing because these two guys seem to still be convinced people are upset because there wasn't a happy ending. holy crap guys, get with the times. any journalist that did the work would have found out otherwise over the past few weeks.

Avatar image for wrenchninja
WrenchNinja

271

Forum Posts

25

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 10

Edited By WrenchNinja

@PJ said:

The Prothean knew about the Reaper threat long before they came. That's why they enslaved other species to build up a strong force able to fight them. They lasted 100 years.

And the races during Shepards cycle didn't prepare. No one belived Shepard that the Reapers were coming. After the first game the Council just said that Saren was behind the attack on the citadel and didn't listen to Shepard that the Reapers are coming. And the events of the second game are focused on the Collectors who only attack human colonies so the other Races aren't all that bothered. Not until the third game when the Reapers actually attack do they start taking the threat seriously.

And the fleet at the end of Mass Effect that defeated Soveraign was a huge fleet composed of many races and the flagships of the humans, turian and Asari. That was one Reaper with no attackships for support. In the third game, there are millions spread around the galaxy.

Thresher maw was several times bigger then a Reaper and could attack it from below. Again, that was ONE Reaper.

The orbital strike that defeated the Reaper was comprised of the Quarian fleet and the Normandy. It took four direct hits to it's weak point. One Reaper.

And Garrus said during the game that the Reapers are using their own(turian) tactics against them, overwhelming force.

And it's clearly shown in the game that force to force, the Reapers are clearly superior. Their only option for victory is shutting them down/destroying them with the Crucible. And space magic is a HUGE part of Mass Effect. The relays, biotics, engines, guns, element zero, well everything is based on space magic. If you thought Mass Effect is some kind of realistic sci-fi then you have been playing a completely different game from me.

Incorrect. The Protheans were attacked during the middle of their war with the Zha'til. They were not prepared at all during their cycle, just like all of the cycles before them. They enslaved other races because they were imperialistic assholes, that was part of their culture, it had nothing to do with the Reapers and it was before the Reapers had ever arrived. They lasted 100 years because the Reapers take their time. Plus Javik specifically says that they lost because they subjugated races and forced Prothean beliefs on to them, which prevented any innovation or new ideas at stopping the Reapers.

I didn't say they prepared before the Reaper arrival. Of course I didn't specify, so I apologize. I meant that they were given time to prepare a united fleet and to create the Crucible.

Incorrect, Sovereign had numerous Heretic Geth dreadnoughts for protection and the fleet was only composed of some of the Alliance fleet and most of the Citadel fleet. You're ignoring that this is the first time they fought a Reaper and in defeating it created new technology with the Thanix Cannons after the battle.

And? That's not an excuse. It was a giant worm.

Quarian ships weren't outfitted or prepared to fight a Reaper. They were their to destroy the Reaper base.

Vague dialogue from Garrus. Turians were on their own (potentially with Krogan troops) on Palaven.

No, it is not clear at all because we never actually get to see much of the fight. A united front from all races is never actually given chance to fight for real and instead was defending their super weapon (which they had no idea how to work).

No, eezo and its extensions are not space magic. It is clearly established since the first game what causes Mass Effect fields. Eezo is an unobtainium but it is not space magic. The Crucible and Catalyst's ability to cause mass relays to explode, control reapers through organic interaction, wipe out the galaxy, wipe out only the Reapers, prevent everyone else from being hurt from its blast except the Normandy's engines and some how turning every thing at the molecular level into synthetic-organic hybrids including leaves and hats with no explanation whatsoever...that is space magic.

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

Edited By Hailinel

@Tetsuo said:

Literally everyone complaining about how shitty the ending to ME3 is is a giant fucking manbaby who can't take not being able to be a superhero and save the universe and get the guy/girl and go have a beer and yay everyone is happy we win! Read a fucking book that doesn't have space marines, jedi, orcs, or wizards in it you cultural illiterates, maybe then you'll learn to appreciate storytelling.

ME3 has problems, but the ending isn't one of them.

Someone hasn't been paying attention to this thread.

Avatar image for trucksimulator
trucksimulator

623

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By trucksimulator
@Tetsuo said:

Literally everyone complaining about how shitty the ending to ME3 is is a giant fucking manbaby who can't take not being able to be a superhero and save the universe and get the guy/girl and go have a beer and yay everyone is happy we win! Read a fucking book that doesn't have space marines, jedi, orcs, or wizards in it you cultural illiterates, maybe then you'll learn to appreciate storytelling.

ME3 has problems, but the ending isn't one of them.

Wow, look at you! So angry and abrasive. I love how you call people cultural illiterates while ignoring most points of why people hate the ending and acting like a neanderthal. Good for you, buddy! You sure showed everyone.
Avatar image for morden2261
morden2261

285

Forum Posts

25

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By morden2261

Come on, Patrick, he hadn't even finished the game. Talking to him might be an interesting intellectual exercise, but considering the starting point of the entire conversation was the ending of Mass Effect 3 it would seem reasonable that you both at least have had that common frame of reference to draw from.

I don't mind a chatty/discussion format article, I just think if you'd both finished the game you might have been able to examine the larger criticisms of the ending which have been echoed in this thread ad nauseum. I expect it would result in a very interesting article.

Avatar image for xeteh
Xeteh

93

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Xeteh

@Tetsuo said:

Literally everyone complaining about how shitty the ending to ME3 is is a giant fucking manbaby who can't take not being able to be a superhero and save the universe and get the guy/girl and go have a beer and yay everyone is happy we win! Read a fucking book that doesn't have space marines, jedi, orcs, or wizards in it you cultural illiterates, maybe then you'll learn to appreciate storytelling.

ME3 has problems, but the ending isn't one of them.

If you want a hug you just need to ask!

Avatar image for def
DeF

5450

Forum Posts

208181

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By DeF

All this ending madness made me finally give in a buy the game, thankfully on sale.

Avatar image for dreamfall31
Dreamfall31

2036

Forum Posts

391

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 8

Edited By Dreamfall31

Yeah...why are you having a conversation with someone about the ending of Mass Effect 3 who hasn't even finished the game??? WHY?

Avatar image for trucksimulator
trucksimulator

623

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By trucksimulator
@DeF said:

All this ending madness made me finally give in a buy the game, thankfully on sale.

It's fun to be part of the circus. Make sure to think the ending couldn't possibly be as silly as people are suggesting; It makes the experience that much sweeter.
Avatar image for hollitz
hollitz

2398

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 12

Edited By hollitz

The only thing that really bothered me was the Mass Relays being destroyed, which effectively killed everyone who decided to pitch in and help in the war effort. I don't think Bioware realized that. That's what bugs me. The choice to destroy the mass relays seemed very last minute. It reeks of them not knowing what they were doing.

Avatar image for onemanx
OneManX

1728

Forum Posts

50

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 6

Edited By OneManX

I feel some people have beaten the ending to the point, where, i feel when newer people finish, it will be just one big shrug, and go, "So that is why everyone is mad..." on to the next one.

That is how I felt, and I LOVE this series.Since I'm in the post ME3 ending world, i can finally read up ona ll these crazy theory stuff people have been plugging for the last few weeks.

Avatar image for tadthuggish
TadThuggish

1073

Forum Posts

334

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 41

Edited By TadThuggish

@Tetsuo said:

Literally everyone complaining about how shitty the ending to ME3 is is a giant fucking manbaby who can't take not being able to be a superhero and save the universe and get the guy/girl and go have a beer and yay everyone is happy we win! Read a fucking book that doesn't have space marines, jedi, orcs, or wizards in it you cultural illiterates, maybe then you'll learn to appreciate storytelling.

ME3 has problems, but the ending isn't one of them.

Oh dude, you are SO cool on the internet.

Avatar image for butz
Butz

26

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Butz
@Morden2261 said:

Come on, Patrick, he hadn't even finished the game. Talking to him might be an interesting intellectual exercise, but considering the starting point of the entire conversation was the ending of Mass Effect 3 it would seem reasonable that you both at least have had that common frame of reference to draw from.

I don't mind a chatty/discussion format article, I just think if you'd both finished the game you might have been able to examine the larger criticisms of the ending which have been echoed in this thread ad nauseum. I expect it would result in a very interesting article.

 
And it's this that people are missing the point of the article, it's not about the ending itself, but the way people react to endings. Not having finished Mass Effect 3 here is irrelevant
Avatar image for yukoasho
yukoasho

2247

Forum Posts

6076

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 7

Edited By yukoasho

@tanookigt said:

eh, I found it hard to read through the whole thing because these two guys seem to still be convinced people are upset because there wasn't a happy ending. holy crap guys, get with the times. any journalist that did the work would have found out otherwise over the past few weeks.

I'm not sure that's what is being said. They're saying that there are some who wanted that, and some who wanted simple resolution and not bunches of open ends to be conveniently exploited in DLC and future games. Others were miffed at the different colors for the same sequences in every ending, as the last captioned pics mentions.

I do think there's something in the middle that rings true - you can't give the player all this agency throughout most of the game and then herd them in one or two points at the end. People want the rest of the experience to mean something when the end comes, and the very limited choice at the end that seems to be the sole determiner of what happens when it's all said and done if of course going to rub people the wrong way. If there is anything gaming as a whole can take from this, is that you can't half-ass player choice. You either have to go whole-hog with it, or don't offer player choice at all. There's no room in between.

I do, however, take issue with the concept of the "customer" being right at all times. Too often, that's the sort of attitude that leads to bland, mindless entertainment that slows down or even kills industries. Look at where Hollywood is now, desperately pushing 3D because people aren't coming to the theater as much as they used to, and even actors are getting tired of brainless movies. Too often, the customer doesn't know what they want until you put it out on market and do some advertising. Games, movies, Television shows, and indeed any form of entertainment, survives only by its position in the market.

Avatar image for stallion74
stallion74

78

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By stallion74

the problem is the actual writing itself....for me it is not the ending that shows laziness on their part.Maybe this is what we are talking now because this is the last thing that stayed in our memory..Imagine though !!! POSSIBLE SPOILERS : you find the blueprints of the crucible just as the Reapers hit the Earth not to mention that you find the last living Prothean at the same time!!! Communications are cut off though only the "superior" Normandy can reach anybody at anytime!!! You solve problems that existed for hundreds of years in such a short time that makes them seem so insignificant !!! you kill a Reaper targeted from orbital space with such a pinpoint accuracy that Shepard who stands next to him remains unscathed...i do not have to point out other moments.i will only say that the ending i wanted to see was the ending i expected to find and i do not mind having other choices...that ending was finally after 3 games the Reapers are destroyed and the cycle is interrupted ,Shepard is a war hero and retires peacefully after doing his job .That is why he was hired for in the beginning of the first game after all !!!

Avatar image for selbie
selbie

2602

Forum Posts

6468

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By selbie

@MrWizard6600 said:

@pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Avatar image for jost1
Jost1

2226

Forum Posts

1275

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 17

Edited By Jost1

Patrick - players aren|t annoyed because they didn't "rescue the princess".

That's the fallacy that almost ALL game writershave been perpetuating and I'm disappointed to see you do the same.

Avatar image for nottle
Nottle

1933

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Nottle

@Butz said:

Also it seems like the entitlement thing could come from those wanting a new ending's lack of consideration for people who liked it the way it is. Unless all they want is just another choice?

From what I'm hearing is that people aren't bummed out with the endings tone, its more the way you get to those endings. I find that the Mass effect games don't give you enough hard decisions, and the hard decisions are always the most interesting. Like the red letter media esque analysis of the ME3 ending says a lot of "talkie techie" sci fi revolves around Socratic exercises, you have to solves problems that aren't the blue choice and the red choice.

Mass Effect 3 gives you endings that aren't be a nice guy or be a dick, "here's your trophy" and that is good. But the problem is that the ending comes from nowhere, instead about solving the threat of the reapers a little deus ex machina kid comes out and tells you that you need to solve the conflict between synthetic and organic life. I guess people just think there are lot of plot holes and lazy writing, and that the ending lacks a "narrative cohesiveness." So much of the ME plot is well made and tied together. The ending, isn't, I guess.

Avatar image for prestonhedges
prestonhedges

1961

Forum Posts

42

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By prestonhedges

@Tetsuo said:

Literally everyone complaining about how shitty the ending to ME3 is is a giant fucking manbaby who can't take not being able to be a superhero and save the universe and get the guy/girl and go have a beer and yay everyone is happy we win! Read a fucking book that doesn't have space marines, jedi, orcs, or wizards in it you cultural illiterates, maybe then you'll learn to appreciate storytelling.

Isn't this game literally about space marine jedis fighting dressed-up orc-wizard colossi?

(Actually that's every game. Hence why the "artistic intergrity" of the ending is moot.)

Avatar image for cjduke
CJduke

1049

Forum Posts

16

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 6

Edited By CJduke

The entire ending had so many holes in it, thats the real problem. I don't care that it was a "dark ending" or that you couldn't make everything turn out perfect, I just think the writing was lazy. Also, none of the three choices make a difference and with the mass relays being destroyed everyone in the universe is fucked so really you save nothing making the entire game pointless.

Avatar image for trucksimulator
trucksimulator

623

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By trucksimulator
@Butz said:

@Morden2261 said:

Come on, Patrick, he hadn't even finished the game. Talking to him might be an interesting intellectual exercise, but considering the starting point of the entire conversation was the ending of Mass Effect 3 it would seem reasonable that you both at least have had that common frame of reference to draw from.

I don't mind a chatty/discussion format article, I just think if you'd both finished the game you might have been able to examine the larger criticisms of the ending which have been echoed in this thread ad nauseum. I expect it would result in a very interesting article.

 And it's this that people are missing the point of the article, it's not about the ending itself, but the way people react to endings. Not having finished Mass Effect 3 here is irrelevant
It's not irrelevant, that's merely one of the points in the article. In the end, it's all in the context of the Mass Effect 3 ending and not knowing what it is greatly affects Jensen's input in this article.
 
Yes, I know Patrick asserts he read the ending but Jensen's comment where he reduced it to " whatever scenario you choose, Earth blows up, right?" tells me he misread or misunderstood completely.
Avatar image for probablytuna
probablytuna

5010

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By probablytuna

Whether or not they're gonna change the ending of the game, I'm still deeply satisfied with my time in Mass Effect 3 and the series itself.

Avatar image for nocturnusfatalis
NocturnusFatalis

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By NocturnusFatalis

The premise for the article is flawed. Mass Effect 3 didn't have an ending.

Avatar image for icecreamjones
Icecreamjones

428

Forum Posts

392

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Icecreamjones

The biggest failing of 'what they were going for' argument with Mass Effect 3: they pulled the ending out of their ass at the last moment, as behind-the-scenes footage has proven. They weren't going for anything - there was literally NO artistic vision.

Avatar image for jimbo
Jimbo

10472

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By Jimbo

This discussion is based largely on a false premise, with a guy that hasn't even experienced the ending you're basing the discussion on.

Avatar image for nardak
Nardak

947

Forum Posts

29

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By Nardak

As some other people have said already this isnt about a dissatisfaction that the ending isnt happy. I am myself totally fine with a so called unhappy ending (shepard dies, some other traveling companions die). What I do have a problem with is the introduction of a being called "starchild" in the last 10 minutes of the game and having to choose between 2 options (i didnt get the third option as my war readiness was too low).

For me a perfect tragic ending would have been the scene where Shepard and Anderson are sitting together at the Citadel and looking down on earth after the final confrontation with the illusive man. The citadel would sent out that wave of energy which would make the reapers get blown up and in the process the citadel would blow up killing Shepard and Anderson.

After that we would have been treated to an sort of epilogue of what happened to the surviving companions of Shepard in the aftermath.

Instead we are given a scene of Normandy running away from that wave of energy (how on earth is Normandy able to run away from that wave of energy and why is Normandy running away in the first place?) and then crash landing on a planet (with team members that were with Shepard in the final attack trying to reach that teleporter to the Citadel).

I think my main problem is that we arent given any real closure to what happens to the characters afterwards. It seems almost like Bioware is setting up a background for the next trilogy in the Mass Effect universe. It is entirely possible that in the next trilogy the player is trying to explore the universe for the humanity and in the process discover those other civilisations that were separated from each other after the mass relays were destroyed.

So after a so called "dark age of universe" the player could be part of bringing a sort of renaissance of technology to the Mass Effect universe.

Avatar image for hass
Hass

57

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Hass

@XNaphryz said:

From what I understand, people are upset about the ending because:

- It gives no sense of closure to anything in the game

- It ignores all of your previous choices and essentially gives you one ending

- It forces characters to break from their personalities in a very contrived manner

- It raises numerous questions and creates serious plot holes

- It does not fit with the themes and ideas from the rest of the game and series

I don't think a lot of people would've minded a depressing ending or whatever, as long as it was presented well and provided closure. They just want a well produced ending, not necessarily a "happy" one.

So in a nutshell:

That describes it pretty well.

As for the ending, if it would have been a provoking ending, that would have been fine,

but it wasn't, and telling that it was, is a plain offence. There have been games, and

studios, that have proven, that you can make it work, and gamers will appreciate it.

Even in Bioware's history games can be found, that resemble this concept more.

Avatar image for arch4non
arch4non

472

Forum Posts

7

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By arch4non

I am so sick and tired of misinformed journalists shrugging off the outrage as simply "fans want a happily ever after ending." You couldn't be farther from the truth. Fans want an ending which doesn't contradict the previous 150 hours of gameplay through the last three games. Fans want an ending which isn't the antitheses to the choice-based narrative the entire trilogy was based on.

I went in fully expecting the possibility of Shepard's death, it was a possible conclusion to Mass Effect 2 and I don't see why it would have been an issue to have an ending like that in Mass Effect 3. The difference between ME2 and ME3 is all the choices you made throughout ME2 determined who lived and died, including Shepard. In ME3 you don't have any of that, you just have about 50 plot holes and get to choose which color explosion you want. Your choices effect what happens in the game, but they have absolutely nothing to do with the ending.

Avatar image for gaff
Gaff

2768

Forum Posts

120

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Gaff

An article that explores the difficulties of combining interactivity and storytelling, writing for an audience and how hard it is to finish a story "actually" is about how gamers are entitled and petulant children and how our gripes with the ending are completely ignored by the elitist press.

Good job, GB community. Good job.

Avatar image for phrosnite
phrosnite

3528

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By phrosnite

Lost's ending was bad but to be fair the whole show except for the 1st season was bad.

Anyways ME3 is awesome. Endings were fine. End of story. It's all about the journey not the destination.

Avatar image for def
DeF

5450

Forum Posts

208181

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By DeF

@purplethoughnotquite said:

@DeF said:

All this ending madness made me finally give in a buy the game, thankfully on sale.

It's fun to be part of the circus. Make sure to think the ending couldn't possibly be as silly as people are suggesting; It makes the experience that much sweeter.

I'm not even out to find confirmation for how bad or not it is, I just wanna be able to read all the articles about this issue without having my experience spoiled :D

Avatar image for trucksimulator
trucksimulator

623

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By trucksimulator
@Gaff said:
An article that explores the difficulties of combining interactivity and storytelling, writing for an audience and how hard it is to finish a story "actually" is about how gamers are entitled and petulant children and how our gripes with the ending are completely ignored by the elitist press. Good job, GB community. Good job.
Your point is dismissing the fact that this article is IN CONTEXT of the ME3 ending. I'm like a broken record here. As much as you want to detach it from the focal topic, it's not going to change the fact this has ME3 in mind. Yes, people are focusing on the same two points, but that doesn't make their arguments invalid. A bit misguided, but not invalid in relation to to all the press and what's actually written in the article.
Avatar image for morden2261
morden2261

285

Forum Posts

25

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By morden2261

@phrosnite said:

Anyways ME3 is awesome. Endings were fine. End of story. It's all about the journey not the destination.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you there.

For me, if I ate an absolutely sumptuous meal but the last spoonful tasted terrible, it couldn't help but negatively color my impression of the meal as a whole seeing as that final spoonful of filth would have been the penultimate moment of the meal and the element which lingered on as a foul taste in my mouth.

That being said, I honestly envy that you can separate the two. For me, however, it's just not possible.

Avatar image for cikame
cikame

4473

Forum Posts

10

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By cikame

I'm having a hard time putting what i'm thinking into words but i'll try.
There are creative people working on stories who feel like making endings like this is artistic and against the curve, which i think is great that there is a portal for them to let out their creative vision.
But i don't go to museums, i don't listen to expressionism music and i don't enjoy any of the 'greatest' movies in human history because i find what people call art to be boring and pointless.
 
I don't battle through my work day to come home, turn on my favorite forms of entertainment to be made sad and angry... what is the point in that, the greatest satisfaction we have in life is turning a bad situation around, forcing me to be shit is going to make me feel like shit.... if someone is going to tell me that is art you can keep it.

Avatar image for nardak
Nardak

947

Forum Posts

29

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By Nardak

The thing is though that withouth Mass Effect 3´s polarizing ending this particular article wouldnt have been written in the first place.

A couple of theories to consider:

It is entirely possible that EA as a publisher forced Bioware to finish the game in a hurry in order to please the shareholders.This would explain why all of the 3 endings are similiar to each other.

It is also entirely possible that Bioware had planned to release a DLC in the first place to fully explain what happens in the end. Asuras Wrath also has a dlc which includes a so called "true ending" for the game. It could be that EA/Bioware also has followed this same marketing strategy.

It is nice to see game reviewers jumping on the band wagon calling us gamers entitled and complaining that we dont respect developers "artistic integrity". On the other hand it seems that game reviewers in their opinion are the only ones "entitled" to criticise games.

One should ask why Bioware didnt mention artistic integrity when people were critising Dragon Age 2 as a game that lacks variety in its environments. Artistic integrity just seems like an excuse that developers could potentially throw around whenever game critics or gamers are disappointed with a game.

Tv series also have "artistic integrity" but if that integrity doesnt interest the viewers a tv series will be canceled pretty fast. So while the endings of tv series might not be changed because viewers are unsatisfied with them it must be said that those tv series dont exist in a vacuum where the creators "artistic vision" is the only important thing.

Avatar image for dunchad
Dunchad

761

Forum Posts

21

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Dunchad

@selbie said:

@MrWizard6600 said:

@pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Great video with some sound arguments. More people should watch that in order to gain some perspective (i.e. it's not just about wanting a happy ending).

@patrickklepek: Pretty interesting discussion, even though some of the assumptions that the premise was based on, are faulty. Keep it up!

Avatar image for little_socrates
Little_Socrates

5847

Forum Posts

1570

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 23

Edited By Little_Socrates

Sorry, I've been working on a write-up on the subject of Mass Effect 3's ending for weeks now, and this feels so underwhelming and unrelated to the issues really at hand here that it only really scratches the surface. Player agency and lack of efficacy are both parts of the issues with ME3's ending, but there are so many layers to what's happened here that this seems to be inessential reading. I've been thinking on this subject far too much as I try to really nail this write-up, so maybe everything written about it will feel underwhelming, but I do legitimately think this is one of the most interesting things to happen in video games in years.

Also, writers claiming that endings "just can't win" are writing from a very personal writing process. When I write a short story, I usually come up with the set-up and the ending first, and what happens in the middle is easily the hardest part. Writing is so individualistic that declaring that "endings just can't win" does disservice to the writers who are most satisfied with their endings and the brilliance that are fully-developed products like The Thing or Alien.

Avatar image for caseyg
caseyg

37

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By caseyg

Lost and Sopranos had one ending which fans had to accept because TV shows can only have one ending.

Movies can only have one ending.

Books can only have one ending.

Video games can and often do have multiple endings. The original Silent Hill had five, all radically different.

Mass Effect 3 has one ending, a Gainax Ending, in which players gets to choose the color of the explosions. BioWare can do better. There's no reason why the Mass Effect trilogy can't conclude with a downer ending, bittersweet ending and (gods of art forbid) a happy ending based on decisions the player made over the three games. Fans were promised as much. I don't see what is so unreasonable about people who play and/or give a shit about Mass Effect wanting some more player driven narrative (a hallmark of the series) to be added via DLC.

Avatar image for liquidprince
LiquidPrince

17073

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Edited By LiquidPrince

@Dunchad said:

@selbie said:

@MrWizard6600 said:

@pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Great video with some sound arguments. More people should watch that in order to gain some perspective (i.e. it's not just about wanting a happy ending).

@patrickklepek: Pretty interesting discussion, even though some of the assumptions that the premise was based on, are faulty. Keep it up!

The video has so much misinformation it's not funny. Not a good video at all...

Avatar image for mnemoidian
Mnemoidian

1016

Forum Posts

478

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 26

Edited By Mnemoidian

I think it's rather disappointing that this article is based on misunderstanding what is wrong with the end. Dark ends would be fine. Bittersweet - sure. Philosophical? Practically counted on it.

No, it's changing what the trilogy has been about in the last minute, introducing a new antagonist, and worst of all, it just gives you some illogical epilogue with parts of my squad. The characters are pretty much the core of my interest in the franchise, I care about those characters....

Sigh. I'll stop, there are more than enough threads on the subject.

But yeah... people talking mess about entitlement in fans without having seen the end themselves, their opinion based on someone who doesn't understand why others are disappointed. *shrug*

Avatar image for djaoni
djaoni

340

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By djaoni

Customers are mindless vermin, and should be treated as such.

Avatar image for selbie
selbie

2602

Forum Posts

6468

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By selbie

@LiquidPrince said:

@Dunchad said:

@selbie said:

@MrWizard6600 said:

@pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Great video with some sound arguments. More people should watch that in order to gain some perspective (i.e. it's not just about wanting a happy ending).

@patrickklepek: Pretty interesting discussion, even though some of the assumptions that the premise was based on, are faulty. Keep it up!

The video has so much misinformation it's not funny. Not a good video at all...

Misinformation such as....?