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Supreme Court Prompted Sony's Restrictive Terms of Service

Decision in favor of AT&T stripping away rights to class action lawsuits spurred action.

You can still take legal action against Sony, you just need to send a letter maintaing that right.
You can still take legal action against Sony, you just need to send a letter maintaing that right.

If you've agreed to Sony's recently updated Terms of Service to sign into PlayStation Network, you're waiving the right to collectively sue (read: class action lawsuit) the company in the future.

There was speculation Sony decided to make this change now was the result of a Supreme Court decision involving AT&T from April. The decision allowed AT&T to include a similar clause in employee contracts that prevented them from taking collective legal action against the company.

Sony confirmed to CNN today this was the reason.

"The Supreme Court recently ruled in the AT&T case that language like this is enforceable," said a spokesperson. "The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company by ensuring that there is adequate time and procedures to resolve disputes."

As pointed out in my story earlier this week, you have the ability to maintain the right to participate in class action lawsuits against Sony by sending a physical letter to the company. It's not the most convenient solution, but it's there. The catch being that anyone who agrees must send a letter to Sony within 30 days of saying yes.

Sony claims the move will benefit both the company and consumers, but the updated Terms of Service means you must engage Sony via arbitration. There is no jury involved with arbitration, though there is a judge. The cynical viewpoint would be that the lack of a jury could create less sympathy towards a consumer.

If you'd like to send a letter to Sony, I used Google Docs to create a publicly available template.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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PrivateIronTFU

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Edited By PrivateIronTFU

@ryanwho said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

A few comments on a videogame website, and suddenly this entire generation's a bunch of 'get over it' pushovers. Thanks, ryanwho, you dumb prick.

Well I didn't say the entire generation. You added that qualifier yourself. Certainly, though, me and Patrick are both worried about people like you who vehemently fight for your right to apathy.

You added that part yourself. I never said this was a bad idea, or that we should get over it. But I'm pretty sure you and Patrick have very different worries.

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blueduck

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Edited By blueduck

@Puck said:

Keep voting Republican people, this is what happens.

They want small government, when it benefits the corporations. They support freedom, so long as it benefits the corporations. They want to hand everything to corporations.

It's the same with abortion rights. Don't get me wrong, abortion is despicable, but if you are for small government and want the prosecutor's office to review every miscarriage (the only way to possibly stop them).....then you are by no means for small government. Does it benefit big insurance and drug companies? Then they want small government. Hypocrites.

It's the whole government dude. The sad fact is corporations make so much money that buying off a politician/judge comes down to mere chump change.

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Puck

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Edited By Puck

Keep voting Republican people, this is what happens.

They want small government, when it benefits the corporations. They support freedom, so long as it benefits the corporations. They want to hand everything to corporations.

It's the same with abortion rights. Don't get me wrong, abortion is despicable, but if you are for small government and want the prosecutor's office to review every miscarriage (the only way to possibly stop them).....then you are by no means for small government. Does it benefit big insurance and drug companies? Then they want small government. Hypocrites.

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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho

@PrivateIronTFU said:

A few comments on a videogame website, and suddenly this entire generation's a bunch of 'get over it' pushovers. Thanks, ryanwho, you dumb prick.

Well I didn't say the entire generation. You added that qualifier yourself. Certainly, though, me and Patrick are both worried about people like you who vehemently fight for your right to apathy.

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GravitasPrimus

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Edited By GravitasPrimus

@dlwarner: you got that right.

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TheRawski

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Edited By TheRawski

It's the United Corporations of America, where citizens are eager to give away their rights because of 9/11 and Federal Reserve's lies. AT&T and SONY are BIG faceless companies that don't have to take responsibility for anything. AT&T spent billions of dollars lobbying the US government, our government is almost as corrupt as any of the others. I sent my letter into SONY (thanks giantbomb) and am trying to get away from AT&T but they have an oligopoly in my area with Comcast so I don't have any choice.

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TheSouthernDandy

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Edited By TheSouthernDandy
@PulledaBrad

@shinigami420 said:

@zoner said:

@shinigami420 said:

This is dumb why the fuck do you care? why do you want to sue everybody? i can never understand you Americans

Yes, no one should be punished for losing personal information and risk putting people in danger of identity theft. Us Americans and our crazy identity theft culture.

Yeah i agree they should be punished but just saying HEY SONY YOU DIDNT KEEP OUR STUFF SAFE NOW GIVE US MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

If it was the govorment i would be fine but this all seems like a cheap way to try to get alot of money

People in North America are just looking for excuses to sue big corporations so they can get rich

I dont think he understands how class action law suits work....

To be fair I don't think that's something they teach in grade 8. Maybe when he gets to high school.
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WickedCobra03

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Edited By WickedCobra03

@Traegan said:

I don't believe it is right to change TOS after a customer has purchased a product. I bought something, I agreed to the TOS (or presumably disagreed and returned the product). Forcing the customer to accept a change in TOS without offering a refund if they disagree with the TOS should not be allowed.

I totally agree with this. I tried doing this with Battlefield 2142 where they had that IGA agreement which I wanted no part of. The in-game advertising was ridiculous to say the least. Intel Pentium ads all over an eastern european village.

Case and point. I find this completely disgusting...

So when I opened the box to find this...

No Caption Provided

....I decided that I didn't want to agree to this and tried to return it to best buy where they told me it was illegal to return opened games... this was basically before I fully knew well that it certainly is not illegal. In fact, all of these retailers hide under that guise and perpetrate that lie onto consumers.

This whole in-game ads and digital distribution crap where they say they will pass the savings onto consumers has been so much bullshit it makes me want to spit. And I am even more angered that consumers are so complacent with the fact that they are being screwed over!

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yukoasho

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Edited By yukoasho

@Andtheworld said:

You guys do realize that you can still collectively sue, right?

And do you also realize that valve and a shitton of other companies have ALSO done this? Honestly, people, do some research.

Can't you also sue individually? You know, where the real fucking money is?

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sagesebas

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Edited By sagesebas
@shinigami420 do you know what a class action lawsuit is people would hardly be getting rich off it
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sagesebas

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Edited By sagesebas
@shinigami420 It's not they fact that everyone wants to sue it's the fact that if a company fucks up bad enough the consumers should have the right to proper legal action.
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knightlyknave

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Edited By knightlyknave

That sucks that the Supreme Court of the US thinks it's okay to waive your rights to a fair trail in the small print of a contract. Luckily, most provinces in Canada don't think that's fair and would overturn such wording.

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NipCrip66

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Edited By NipCrip66

Well I for one won't accept this TOS for as long as I can avoid it. This means not buying Euphoria and probably not playing Uncharted 3 online.

Instead I will stick with XBLA (which, if the same game comes out on both platforms I use anyway). Not a great deal of pain for me and less money to Sony and any game companies that choose to use them exclusively.

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NipCrip66

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Edited By NipCrip66

@shinigami420: I am European and fortunately my rights are protected. However this is about the power to take companies to account for not doing their jobs. Sony want to have your personal and financial details so should be punished if they fail in their duty to protect those. The most powerful tool consumers have is to take money from the corporation. In a class-action lawsuit the company has less chance to bully their way through the court case. That is why this is a dangerous precedent to set.

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Andtheworld

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Edited By Andtheworld

You guys do realize that you can still collectively sue, right?

And do you also realize that valve and a shitton of other companies have ALSO done this? Honestly, people, do some research.

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Phished0ne

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Edited By Phished0ne

@ChrisInCali: @MusiM: You dont need to, you just agree to the EULA, then send the letter, The letter acts as you not agreeing to that particular clause, and then you can still go online. Done.

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generic_username

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Edited By generic_username
@MackGyver said:

PulledaBradon Sept. 22, 2011 at 1:43 p.m.

@shinigami420 said:

@zoner said:

@shinigami420 said:

This is dumb why the fuck do you care? why do you want to sue everybody? i can never understand you Americans

Yes, no one should be punished for losing personal information and risk putting people in danger of identity theft. Us Americans and our crazy identity theft culture.

Yeah i agree they should be punished but just saying HEY SONY YOU DIDNT KEEP OUR STUFF SAFE NOW GIVE US MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

If it was the govorment i would be fine but this all seems like a cheap way to try to get alot of money

People in North America are just looking for excuses to sue big corporations so they can get rich

I dont think he understands how class action law suits work....

I agree and might I add that if one does not understand, then one should do a little research into the subject before opening ones' big mouth and making a fool of oneself. In short, STFU!


Hating on Americans is a traditional course of action on videogame websites. Especially ones made by Americans.
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rpratts

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Edited By rpratts

thank you... planning to mail it in tomorrow.

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uglykitten

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Edited By uglykitten

@ricetopher said:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Indeed.

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RaidenMitsuru

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Edited By RaidenMitsuru

Fuck AT&T, that is all.

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thechronodarkness

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Granted, sony has a problem that it never released psn cards until nearly 2 years into its release in america......Have to say, just delete your credit card from your psn account. Now even. Just buy psn cards, as inconvient as it is. But hey, if you're downloading 150+ meg updates every 3 weeks or sooner, i'm sure your used to inconvience by now.

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mackgyver

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Edited By mackgyver

PulledaBradon Sept. 22, 2011 at 1:43 p.m.

@shinigami420 said:

@zoner said:

@shinigami420 said:

This is dumb why the fuck do you care? why do you want to sue everybody? i can never understand you Americans

Yes, no one should be punished for losing personal information and risk putting people in danger of identity theft. Us Americans and our crazy identity theft culture.

Yeah i agree they should be punished but just saying HEY SONY YOU DIDNT KEEP OUR STUFF SAFE NOW GIVE US MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

If it was the govorment i would be fine but this all seems like a cheap way to try to get alot of money

People in North America are just looking for excuses to sue big corporations so they can get rich

I dont think he understands how class action law suits work....

I agree and might I add that if one does not understand, then one should do a little research into the subject before opening ones' big mouth and making a fool of oneself. In short, STFU!

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71Ranchero

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Edited By 71Ranchero

@PrivateIronTFU said:

A few comments on a videogame website, and suddenly this entire generation's a bunch of 'get over it' pushovers. Thanks, ryanwho, you dumb prick.

Get over it.

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Xaviersx

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Edited By Xaviersx

If anyone noticed, consumer rights took a backseat to corporate interest during the industrial part of the revolution. The tech age only made it worse, but like that slow boiling frog, not enough realized it in any qualities numerous enough to see the significant differences, dispell the corp. litature, or the incorporated court. What's the mantra, . . don't worry be happy.

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PrivateIronTFU

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Edited By PrivateIronTFU

A few comments on a videogame website, and suddenly this entire generation's a bunch of 'get over it' pushovers. Thanks, ryanwho, you dumb prick.

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mr48

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Edited By mr48

Everyone here should watch the Hot Coffee, a documentary film about the erosion of consumer rights and corporate subversion of contract laws before they dismiss this issue as just another unimportant legal clause.

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lockwoodx

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Edited By lockwoodx

My question is could PSN users force Sony to create a version of PSN for those who said no? It would be like the handicapped forcing a restaurant to provide a proper access ramp.

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Edited By MusiM

While I'm all for individual rights over company rights, class action law suits really only benefit the lawyer instigating them. Its definitely slimy of Sony and even slimier of AT&T (employees, really?!!!) but in the long run... actually I don't have anywhere I'm going with this. I guess I'm just indifferent to it all. The US clearly values large corporation rights over the middle class and poor so its not like we're ever going to have a good road to travel when it comes to taking these things forwards. I suppose the benefit of the current industry is perception is everything and a decent amount of publicity over something negative is sometimes enough to enact some type of change. Too bad Sony is more stubborn than most.

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jmfinamore

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Edited By jmfinamore

@ryanwho said:

@Krummey said:

@HarlequinRiot

@ryanwho said:

Its heartening to know this young generation of "get over it" pushovers who gladly sign their rights away will one day be the leaders of the world.

I forgot how everyone over the age of 25 struggled for every right they enjoy and fought to the death when any were threatened.

Hyperbole!

He lashes out because the truth hurts.

I'll have you know, I forgot how to feel pain because I'm too busy conforming. Like in all those books people know the titles of.

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ChrisInCali

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Edited By ChrisInCali

Looks like I'm not using my PS3 for anything online now. Not giving my rights away. This country is letting large corporations own us. The Supreme Court is a bunch of geriatric old fucks who live in mansions and don't give a shit about REAL hard working Americans.

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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho

@Krummey said:

@HarlequinRiot

@ryanwho said:

Its heartening to know this young generation of "get over it" pushovers who gladly sign their rights away will one day be the leaders of the world.

I forgot how everyone over the age of 25 struggled for every right they enjoy and fought to the death when any were threatened.

Hyperbole!

He lashes out because the truth hurts.

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dragonzord

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Edited By dragonzord

@kmg90 said:

@zoner said:

@shinigami420 said:

This is dumb why the fuck do you care? why do you want to sue everybody? i can never understand you Americans

Yes, no one should be punished for losing personal information and risk putting people in danger of identity theft. Us Americans and our crazy identity theft culture.

Identity Theft occurs worldwide, its not just limited to the US, the majority of Identity theft originates from outside the US

that'sthejoke.jpeg

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kmg90

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Edited By kmg90

@zoner said:

@shinigami420 said:

This is dumb why the fuck do you care? why do you want to sue everybody? i can never understand you Americans

Yes, no one should be punished for losing personal information and risk putting people in danger of identity theft. Us Americans and our crazy identity theft culture.

Identity Theft occurs worldwide, its not just limited to the US, the majority of Identity theft originates from outside the US

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BrockNRolla

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Edited By BrockNRolla

@Veektarius said:

@BrockNRolla said:

@Veektarius said:

That AT&T law does bother me. Hadn't heard of that decision.

It isn't a "law" it was just a singular court decision; even if it was a Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court only rules on Constitutional issues, so any court is free to say Sony's contract isn't valid for innumerable other reasons.

I chose my words poorly, but supreme court decisions are law in the sense of stare decisis. It's true that the breadth of the decision's application rests in the lower courts until the Supreme Court clarifies, but in the aggregate it will create decisions that are more alike to its conclusion than those that preceded it.

Certainly. It's not to say the decision has no impact at all, just that I think Sony was overplaying their hand with this sort of rhetoric.

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veektarius

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Edited By veektarius

@BrockNRolla said:

@Veektarius said:

That AT&T law does bother me. Hadn't heard of that decision.

It isn't a "law" it was just a singular court decision; even if it was a Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court only rules on Constitutional issues, so any court is free to say Sony's contract isn't valid for innumerable other reasons.

I chose my words poorly, but supreme court decisions are law in the sense of stare decisis. It's true that the breadth of the decision's application rests in the lower courts until the Supreme Court clarifies, but in the aggregate it will create decisions that are more alike to its conclusion than those that preceded it.

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snetErz

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Edited By snetErz

@kitsunezeta said:

So, lemme get this straight: Because AT&T managed to get the Supreme Court to rule in favor of allowing the stripping of the Class-Action rights of their EMPLOYEES (which, for those who somehow don't know, are paid by AT&T), Sony believes they have the right to do the same thing to their CONSUMERS (who aren't paid by Sony).

Someone needs to get the Supreme Court to review THIS one, and fast. And to Sony: Either pay each member of PSN in the US $174 per day (US Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25 times 24 hours a day) that they are a member, without question, or take that clause out of the TOS.

Actually it wouldn't be under Federal Minimum Wage, as that pertains to people working in positions of the federal government. What you would want to look at is State Minimum Wages, as they can be higher than federal and sometimes lower.

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PulledaBrad

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Edited By PulledaBrad

@shinigami420 said:

@zoner said:

@shinigami420 said:

This is dumb why the fuck do you care? why do you want to sue everybody? i can never understand you Americans

Yes, no one should be punished for losing personal information and risk putting people in danger of identity theft. Us Americans and our crazy identity theft culture.

Yeah i agree they should be punished but just saying HEY SONY YOU DIDNT KEEP OUR STUFF SAFE NOW GIVE US MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

If it was the govorment i would be fine but this all seems like a cheap way to try to get alot of money

People in North America are just looking for excuses to sue big corporations so they can get rich

I dont think he understands how class action law suits work....

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Phished0ne

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Edited By Phished0ne

These comments turn me into James Chen.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

It dosent matter, you guys heard Patrick say it himself on the bombcast. The lawyer they talked to was pretty sure it wouldnt even hold up in court. EULAs only ever hold up when it comes to DRM stripping and copyright issues.

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Krrutch

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Edited By Krrutch

quick, lets not stop while we're all on this roll of being self-entitled idiots who continually jump at every chance we get to find an excuse to get angry about something

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Insectecutor

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Edited By Insectecutor

"The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company by ensuring that there is adequate time and procedures to resolve disputes."

"The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company by ensuring that there is adequate time and procedures to resolve disputes."

"The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company by ensuring that there is adequate time and procedures to resolve disputes."

Shut the fuck up Sony, this boilerplate bullshit flat out disgusting. Glad I live in a country where it's not enforceable.

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Juicebox

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Edited By Juicebox

@shinigami420:

wow Sony fanboys never seize to amaze me. So ignorant

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ultimatepunchrod

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Edited By ultimatepunchrod

@ryanwho said:

Its heartening to know this young generation of "get over it" pushovers who gladly sign their rights away will one day be the leaders of the world.

well i dont care because i dont have a reason to sue sony and even if i did i wouldnt win.

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MeatSim

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Edited By MeatSim

This benefits the consumer? yea right.

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BrockNRolla

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Edited By BrockNRolla

@Veektarius said:

That AT&T law does bother me. Hadn't heard of that decision.

It isn't a "law" it was just a singular court decision; even if it was a Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court only rules on Constitutional issues, so any court is free to say Sony's contract isn't valid for innumerable other reasons.

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krummey

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Edited By krummey
@HarlequinRiot

@ryanwho said:

Its heartening to know this young generation of "get over it" pushovers who gladly sign their rights away will one day be the leaders of the world.

I forgot how everyone over the age of 25 struggled for every right they enjoy and fought to the death when any were threatened.

Hyperbole!
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ProfessorEss

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Edited By ProfessorEss
@Pr1mus said:

"The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company"

That part is pretty funny.

Yeah, I chuckled at that too.
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fobwashed

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Edited By fobwashed

@Pr1mus said:

"The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company"

That part is pretty funny.

I'm sure some of the consumers work at the company so this statement is true.

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pr1mus

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Edited By pr1mus

"The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company"

That part is pretty funny.