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The Slippery Slope of Video Game Sales

Passage and The Castle Doctrine designer Jason Rohrer believes our newfound culture of video game sales is hurting players and developers at the same time.

(UPDATE: You can now listen to our whole interview on the Interview Dumptruck.)

Can you remember the last time there wasn't a video game sale going on? This only happened recently, but the culture of perpetual sales caught fire quickly, and it's only getting bigger. The upside of sales are clear: cheaper games. But Passage, Inside a Star-filled Sky, and and Diamond Trust of London developer Jason Rohrer has a new game, and isn't so sure sales always benefit for developers and players.

Rohrer has been independently making games for years. In 2013, he had a Kickstarter to produce a set of DS cartridges.
Rohrer has been independently making games for years. In 2013, he had a Kickstarter to produce a set of DS cartridges.

Rohrer recently published an essay on the website called "Why Rampant Sales are Bad for Players" for his next release, The Castle Doctrine. When the game is released later this month, the current price, $8, will have a temporary launch price of $12. After a week, however, the price will become $16--forever. There will be no sales for The Castle Doctrine. Period. Basically, Rohrer wants to reward early adopters, not punish them with having to pay more money.

The Castle Doctrine has already seen its fair share of controversies over its development, ranging from its very premise (a man, not a woman, protecting their family) to Rohrer's reaction to his life experiences that have informed the game's development (being attacked by dogs).

Rohrer's stance on the game's relationship with sales is the latest development, albeit one with somewhat less moral messiness alongside it. Nonetheless, broaching the topic resulted in the most web traffic Rohrer has seen on his website since the game was announced last year.

Clearly, Rohrer has touched a sensitive subject for all parties involved.

"There’s a rush among game developers," he told me. "All of my friends that I know that are multimillionaires, they made more than half of their money in these Steam sales. Over the past couple of years, I’ve just been hearing all these stories from people. 'Oh, yeah, the sales are where you’re going to make your money, man! I did a midweek madness, and that doubled my money right there!” [laughs] 'I was deal of the day a few weeks later--and again! I doubled!' And they just act like this is the way it is and this is amazing. If you stop and ask one of them, 'you realize that most of those people who bought it, when it was midweek madness or whatever, don’t actually play it?' And they just shrug. 'Who cares, as long as I get their money, right?'"

To be clear, Rohrer doesn't really begrudge his friends for cashing in on what seems to make sense. But he does wonder if there's unintended consequences to this movement, as is the case with any "rush." On the App Store, the rush resulted in a race to the bottom on price, as more games decided the best way to make money was to charge less, hoping to make up for the lack of initial investment with volume.

(If you'll remember, this is what Nintendo president Satoru Iwata famously criticized in his keynote at the Game Developers Conference in 2011. He felt it devalued the quality of games.)

And furthermore, it's not like Rohrer hasn't benefited from the very practice he's now questioning. His last game, Inside a Star-filled Sky, was the benefit of many Steam sales before Rohrer pulled the plug. Rohrer said he made a "substantial amount of money" from these Steam sales.

But he started to notice a pattern when Inside a Star-filled Sky wasn't on sale: no one bought it. Almost no one, anyway. Sales were flat in-between sales, and garnering a new level of interest on the next sale meant offering deeper and deeper discounts. As other developers offered bigger discounts, he felt compelled to do the same thing. In his essay, Rohrer offered this sales graph to illustrate the point:

No Caption Provided

There was a surprising counterpoint within Rohrer's own library of work, too. Another one of his games, Sleep Is Death, was simultaneously available on his website during the same period. During the times when Inside a Star-filled Sky wasn't on sale and Sleep Is Death was full price, Sleep Is Death was making more money. What Rohrer discovered was that our new culture of games sales, something he’d benefited from and supported himself, had conditioned people to avoid full price.

"A lot of people use the term 'trained.' [laughs]" he said. "[It's uncomfortable] having any of these kinds of discussions about marketing and 'should you price your game at $1 or $0.99? Or should it be $9.99 or $10?' All these psychological tricks that marketers have learned over the years. 'Have the price high, so you can discount it later!' All these kinds of things [are] because of psychology. I feel a little slimy dealing with it and thinking in these terms. I especially feel a little slimy about thinking about how we’ve 'trained' our customers. They’re just clapping their fins together and throwing money at us!"

"As a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multi-millionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that."

There's a reason Rohrer titled his essay "Why Rampant Sales are Bad for Players." The culture of sales seems to be eroding his ability to sell games over the longterm, and it impacts early adopters. Rohrer hypothesized the poor soul who purchased one of his games a few minutes before an unannounced sale kicks in. What does that person think? Do they feel okay having spent anywhere from 50-to-75% more than the next person?

This situation wasn't a hypothetical when it came to a Sleep Is Death customer, though. For a period, Sleep Is Death adopted a pay-what-you-want pricing model. The game had been $12, but pay-what-you-want means you pay the developer whatever you think the game is worth. Not long after the change, he received an email from a player purchased the game just prior to the pay-what-you-want change, and he was upset.

"This person’s argument was [that] 'I only have $12 in my bank account, and I just spent it on your game and I won’t be able to buy another game.'" he said. "Some of these people are kids. They get allowance or have a birthday present [where] they get $20 from their grandma or something. 'It’s a game we’re all playing with money' is not true for a lot of people. A lot of people really have to think very hard about what game they spend their money on."

Rohrer asked the player what he wanted to pay. The player's response? $3. So Rohrer refunded him $9.

It's not entirely about the money, either. It's also about how he design games. Rohrer said The Castle Doctrine is not a game that takes five minutes to "click." He suspects it will take players a week before the systems really make sense. That's quite a bit of time, but Rohrer doesn't have a way of making the big payoff in the opening moments--it's not that type of game. He needs players willing to invest.

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When Inside Star-filled Sky went on sale, Rohrer searched through the comments and reviews from players. Steam profiles list the time someone has spent playing a game, and Rohrer noticed a crucial detail with players who didn't like Inside a Star-filled Sky: they weren't spending much time with it.

"Every single person who’s giving it a negative review played it for less than an hour, which means they didn’t even get through the tutorial, the part where the cool stuff is explained," he said. "The people who paid full price for it, whatever the full price was at the time that they bought it, gave it a chance. Some of them played it for hundreds of hours. I really think that if you want to make a more subtle game, one that’s not necessarily going to beat you over the head with what’s cool about it right from the first screen. [If] you want to make a game that takes longer and lingers more and is more about the long term experience, then, yeah, pricing the game higher really will help you have almost all the players who come in be willing to get to that point."

Rohrer's suggestion that the larger investment we have in something, the more we're willing to give it a chance, doesn't sound too crazy, if a bit counterintuitive. Look at it a different way. When you were a kid, did your parents ever buy you a totally crappy game? I remember getting some awful licensed games as a kid, and while I would have preferred Chrono Trigger, I didn't have a choice, so I sucked it up and played through what was in front of me and tried to find enjoyment in that. If I spent $20 on a game, I want to know what it's about. If I spend $2 on a game, I might be inclined to turn it off after my initial reaction.

As he researched his essay, Rohrer came across the idea of a "shame list." Players were posting all of the games picked up in a Steam sale, games they knew they would never have time to play. But when a potentially interesting game is available for $2, why not buy it? Isn't it a win-win? The developer is being rewarded with money and the player suddenly has cheap access to a game.

The days and weeks leading up to a season Steam sale often pushes players into a fever pitch of anticipation.
The days and weeks leading up to a season Steam sale often pushes players into a fever pitch of anticipation.

"When a player comes along and does a shame list," he said, "where they have 300 games in the library, of which they’ve only played 30--that’s bad for players! They wasted their money. And people say 'they don’t need to be babysat, they’re adults or people who can make their own choices, we don’t need to hold their hands as developers and make sure they don’t make bad choice.' But at the same time, me, as a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multimillionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that. I don’t think that’s good for those people. I don’t necessarily think it’s McDonalds’ job to make sure we all eat healthy, but at the same time, I wouldn’t want to be running a fast food restaurant myself."

Right now, the plan is for The Castle Doctrine to never have a sale. Rohrer believes it make sense right now, but it's hard to anticipate the future, and nothing applies to every developer's situation. But it's started an interesting conversation.

When asked, he didn't have a good answer as to why The Castle Doctrine will be priced at $16. He just sort of settled on it. It's certainly more expensive than games his friends have made, though.

"It was kind of scary saying 'The Castle Doctrine will be $16 dollars,'" he said. " [...] Should it only be $6 and then go up to $12? Should it be $5 and go up to $10? You don’t know what effect this is going to have. It’s scary to make your price higher than everybody else. The Castle Doctrine will be more than Fez. [laughs] The Castle Doctrine will be more than Braid ever was. The Castle Doctrine will be more than Super Meat Boy. Yeah, I don’t know. It seems scary, but on the other hand, it very well may be the right thing to do, and maybe even got it set too low."

Patrick Klepek on Google+

455 Comments

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rm082e

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I don't oppose sales in the slightest, but find it extremely idiotic when people say they have X thousand amount of games on Steam because of sales. Like, sure you have the right to purchase any amount of games you want with your hard earned money, but that doesn't make you any less of an idiot.

Just an observation: How is number of games purchased on Steam any different than Achievements/Trophies? How dumb are the people who spent time playing My Little Pony and Hannah Montanna to inflate their scores? Seems like the same engine driving both pursuits to me.

And I'm not disagreeing with you. Just wanted to point out it goes further than people wasting money on sales they will never take advantage of.

@liquidprince said:

A developer would probably take half the amount of sales, if it can ensure that all those people will actually play their games and become actual fans, as opposed to their game just sitting in your endless library untouched.

That assumes that developer is proud of the game they made and they want people to play it because they have reason to believe people will enjoy it. I'm sure there are some developers out there thanking their lucky stars anytime sales lead to impulse buys and they rake in a pile of cash they never would have earned otherwise. I'm sure those developers are thrilled when their games go untouched in a digital locker somewhere.

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Onomatopoeia

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If Castle Doctrine is good, I'll save up and buy it at full price.

Why? It'll probably be on sale soon.

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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar

@patrickklepek said:

@planetfunksquad said:

@believer258 said:

@planetfunksquad said:

I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

Well, he is telling people that they should buy games at full price so they can appreciate them more...

Partly, but he's also saying that he doesn't want his game to be an impulse purchase from someone who never played it. Dude wants his game to be more. He wants people who buy his game to buy it because they really want it, not because fuck it, it's cheap. There's nothing wrong with that.

^^ This is what attracted me to the argument in the first place.

Actually, there are a few core things wrong with that.

First, it wholly negates the notion that there is a segment of the population that would enjoy and admire the game, but would not be made aware of it if not for a sale.

Secondly, it overestimates the power of a high price point in commanding people to spending time on it. Patrick, you should be familiar with that as well as anyone else given you work with Jeff, someone with the disposable income to spend money on many things at full price, only to let them get lost somewhere or other after being touched once or twice, if at all. The bombcast has many records of that happen.

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SilverTorch1

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@somejerk: Not everyone has a lot of disposable income, man. You shouldn't think less of people who are less fortunate than you. You're a special kind of asshole.

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JZ

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Edited By JZ

@turambar: yeah I can't count the number of times per year I say "I don't want to spend 60 bucks on that game, but when it's 30 or 20 totally."

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mikeeegeee

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Edited By mikeeegeee

Economic angles aside, maybe look at it this way:

Rohrer is a craftsman. An artist, even. And he's poured himself into this project, an original work which he perceives to have value. He clearly struggles with what amount of value, which I can totally understand. The game he makes is an expression, and he's created it more out of a labor of love than as a means to make a buck, as a job. To assign a dollar amount to that is really, really hard. It's far easier to say what's too cheap than it is to say what's too expensive or just right.

As someone who paints, I completely understand where he's coming from. If I were to somehow gain some sort of presence in the world and have hundreds of thousands of prints made of my works, prints that would sell for, say, a dollar, I'm not sure I'd like it from a philosophical perspective. To have something that I spent years painting suddenly become mass produced and shit out by computers in seconds would cheapen the overall effort. On the other hand, from an economical, build-my-future-and-make-my-parents-proud angle, that's complete bullshit and I'd take the money and run. But I feel like he just doesn't want to become the Thomas Kinkade of painters, and that is totally fine by me.

If Castle Doctrine is good, I'll save up and buy it at full price.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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A developer would probably take half the amount of sales, if it can ensure that all those people will actually play their games and become actual fans, as opposed to their game just sitting in your endless library untouched.

Really, though? Someone would rather have half a paycheque than know there are some people out there who gave them money and didn't play their game? I have yet to be inconvenienced by people giving me money for nothing.

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JZ

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Edited By JZ

@planetfunksquad: well if he's upset that his game is not getting the respect he thinks it deserves. He should stop making games. Game development is a cruel thankless job, a thousand times more so for indies.

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Onomatopoeia

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Turambar

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@ultimaxe said:
Also, yes, I totally realize that not everybody is fortunate enough to drop 60 bucks on a luxury item whenever they want. Totally fair. I'm referring to people who imply that they could afford it, but feel that they don't have to because game X is not worthy of it, or whatever.

Why would someone wish to pay full price for a product they feel to be sub-par?

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ltwood12

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Mentalocrity

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Agree with the sentiment but maybe not the presented execution. Steam Sales have become a bit too much of a thing and they probably should ease up a bit, but the only reason they've gotten this big is because gamers have been getting priced out of games. I can't afford to spend 40 - 60 dollars on a game at launch or anytime really and while setting the price at maybe twenty and going up from there sounds good, it stops being so once you realize that it's going to keep people who couldn't afford it when it was cheap from affording it later when it's expensive. There is a problem with the way people get games (it's not a new thing, either) and it is certainly not an easy one to fix. Good on Roher for identifying the problem and presenting an alternative, but it's definitely an issue that needs to be tailored to the service.

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I don't oppose sales in the slightest, but find it extremely idiotic when people say they have X thousand amount of games on Steam because of sales. Like, sure you have the right to purchase any amount of games you want with your hard earned money, but that doesn't make you any less of an idiot. A developer would probably take half the amount of sales, if it can ensure that all those people will actually play their games and become actual fans, as opposed to their game just sitting in your endless library untouched.

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Justin258

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@planetfunksquad said:

@believer258 said:

@planetfunksquad said:

I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

Well, he is telling people that they should buy games at full price so they can appreciate them more...

Partly, but he's also saying that he doesn't want his game to be an impulse purchase from someone who never played it. Dude wants his game to be more. He wants people who buy his game to buy it because they really want it, not because fuck it, it's cheap. There's nothing wrong with that.

^^ This is what attracted me to the argument in the first place.

That's what I meant by "appreciate them more." And I agree to some extent, but at some point the dollar value attached to a game doesn't necessarily make it worth more on a deeper level. True, if you only buy one game occasionally, then you're probably going to get more out of it, but that doesn't make it a good or great game that you're going to look back on fondly. It just means you spent a lot more time with it.

Besides, I appreciate my bloated Steam library, and I've even found a deep appreciation for some games despite having a hundred or so that I haven't played much of yet. The dollar value of a game doesn't really propel me forward after the first few hours anyway. That's all a little anecdotal, I know, but I just think people are ultimately responsible for their own time and money.

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planetfunksquad

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@jz: Thats a pretty reductive way of looking at it. He just doesn't want his game to be disposable.

Great, but it's based on a false premise, at least to me. Just because someone pays a lower price doesn't mean they don't appreciate it, it just means they took a chance and possibly bought a game that wasn't for them. I dont understand the logic of not wanting your game to reach as many people as possible.

And that's a valid viewpoint. Jason just looked at all the data that was available to him (which as the creator, not the consumer is very different to whats available to you) and came to a different conclusion. He's not trying to make you feel bad for buying stuff in sales, he's expressing his opinion on why he doesn't want to be involved. It doesn't really matter if you see the logic or not.

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xpgamer7

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Edited By xpgamer7

I think that rewarding early access-ers works when you're talking about a game that wouldn't otherwise be made or both needs the money AND is being tested. It gives testing that they pay for not you. But when you're talking about a game that's fully released with expectations that it should be done, you pay an inflated price to be the first to see it, and those who want to be able to access it at affordable prices have to wait until often a year or more. When people pay more to see something that's largely incomplete and possibly broken, that's where expectations get confused and the two market ideals mix in unsavory ways. People protect it by saying "You can't judge it because it labels itself as unfinished" but the ones who are upset are those who are used to paying more to buy in early on traditionally sold games.

On the otherhand you have games like minecraft or the castle doctrine here which reward early adopters. Whether that means they can't lower the price for affordability later is up to them, but it seems strange to alienate people who may find it a long time later without having a chance to be an early adopter. I think that line falls where you start selling it however. Expectations about price drops are in the commercial market, not the gaming one specifically and if you're willing to put your game out there early to make money, you have to look at the fact that consumers are paying to test your product, people will expect the game to lower it's price because you're asking for money, you are frontloading sales by putting it on the market before completion, and you have to decide how you'll deal with the price when it's actually completed.

This is to say nothing of the actual consumer side. I have more games than I've played, but the humble sales made it possible for me to start buying games semi consistently. I always vet which ones I keep and give the extras away to people who might not be able to get them. That way even with a somewhat unplayed library, I know that I can have plenty of games to jump into, say nothing of other sources. Not everyone will treat their libraries the same but that's ok. I'm much more happy with people having libraries filled with interesting games that they can try in anytime, games they might not otherwise have noticed or tried. Sure it might not let them get deep into it, but it's a reason for developers to make better intros to their games in this market, and will decide the consumer opinion of those who aren't so deep they would jump for the games at first. After all, people who are curious but cost averse are the ones who might try it, and they probably wouldn't have tried it at all otherwise.

I know some might find it wrong that I wait for sales, and I don't always(Nidhogg is a good recent one). But they got me into really getting games, and supporting people more consistently. When it often drills down to getting games first against cost I find it interesting how the point isn't addressed clearly. Especially when so much sales data points straight at it.

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Edited By JZ

@relshak: but this guy only wants your money if you build and shrine and worship how amazing he is. If you bought it cheap and don't know anything about it, he does not like that. .....fuck this pissed me off.

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Relshak

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I do not need to be babysat. If I want to buy a hundred games on sale and never play them, that's my choice. Enjoy your money, developers. You've earned it.

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Edited By Turambar

@patrickklepek said:

@koolaid said:

This discussion seems really strange to me. People seem to be taking this really, really personally. Do people think that he is saying that players who buy games on steam sale are bad people? That's not how I read this at all.

I expected people to have strong opinions on this, but nowhere in Rohrer's discussion (here or on his website) does he say the people who engage in sales culture are bad people. He's only pointing out what he perceives as negative consequences. The fact that some folks are taking this so personally is really surprising to me.

I really shouldn't. There has always been a societal force demanding that people who only partake as opposed to support a negative trend also be made to feel a degree of responsibility in establishing and continuing it. It's become all the more powerful in the video game industry as of late due to conversations regarding depictions of females, malicious business choices, etc. It carries over to this conversation as well: saying someone's purchasing choices leads to negative consequences makes one perceive it as an accusation of direct responsibility. And no one wants to be told their buying of games at cheaper prices is somehow killing the hobby they love.

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Phished0ne

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@believer258 said:

@planetfunksquad said:

I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

Well, he is telling people that they should buy games at full price so they can appreciate them more...

Partly, but he's also saying that he doesn't want his game to be an impulse purchase from someone who never played it. Dude wants his game to be more. He wants people who buy his game to buy it because they really want it, not because fuck it, it's cheap. There's nothing wrong with that.

It's about his creation being appreciated. Every creator wants that.

Great, but it's based on a false premise, at least to me. Just because someone pays a lower price doesn't mean they don't appreciate it, it just means they took a chance and possibly bought a game that wasn't for them. I dont understand the logic of not wanting your game to reach as many people as possible.

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TheHumanDove

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So how much does the industry pay you to write this? This goes for all gamez journulists. The video game culture of being so anti consumer is hilarious.

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spraynardtatum

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Edited By spraynardtatum

I'm just happy that for once I'm seeing someone in the game industry actually doing something that isn't specifically meant to make them more money. It's weird to see a motivation that isn't greed in the business world and I commend him for it.

Artistic integrity motherfather.

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@mumrik: I think they're just doing a lot of premium content lately because there aren't a ton of new games coming out right now. I used to actually have the opposite opinion, that they did so much free stuff that premium wasn't really necessary.

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Great article!

Honestly, if no game ever went on sale ever again, my playing habits would absolutely not change. Would my buying habits change? Most definitely, but I don't think it would effect what I actually play one bit. I didn't like Inside A Star Filled Sky very much (not sure what I paid for it) so I'll probably skip The Castle Doctrine, but good on Jason for trying something different. He seems like a cool dude.

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JZ

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@planetfunksquad: that is so pretentious I can't even take it all in. I only want the right people playing my game. All you cheap yahoos that bought it on sale are not welcomed.

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taig

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Edited By taig

The idea of not buying his game because it is "cheap" but instead because someone really wants it seems to forget that when making any kind of entertainment you are trying to win an audience over. Aren't you? If the audience is already 100% on your side that is great why drop the price ever? If you are Disney why ever drop the price of a movie. If you aren't its a lofty goal to aim for.

This is not in any way a pro consumer argument. The only pro consumer claim he made was that if you spend more you will value it more. By that logic lighting all my money on fire would be the most fun I could ever have.

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deactivated-62ad23e05bdbc

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@mumrik said:

Is Patrick just 75% of Giant Bomb for people who don't bite on the premium bait? I feel like GB does a lot of what they hate about the DLC culture in games these days...

Who is "they"? The Bombcrew has certainly expressed disdain for some specific DLC content, but they don't seem opposed to it in general, in fact go search on YouTube "Jeff Gerstmann DLC on the disk", and listen to what he has to say about it.

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I can't say for everyone else, but I bought Inside A Star-Filled Sky on sale because I was never gonna buy it otherwise. Sales don't really matter if you have provide enough value, seeing as Minecraft is pretty much the most popular game ever and it had a similar pricing plan.

Edit: to be clear I didn't mean that I didn't want to buy it, just that I never really thought about it and forgot about the game at that point. Sales is a good way to generate publicity after all. I'm glad I bought it because it's neat.

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JonnyAshley

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As a casual purchaser I used to only spend $60 a year on games, but because of so many good sales I now probably spend $120-$180. I'm putting more money in because I'm getting a lot more out of it, and its exciting that for once I can actually participate in new games before they become irrelevant to everyone.

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@believer258 said:

@planetfunksquad said:

I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

Well, he is telling people that they should buy games at full price so they can appreciate them more...

Partly, but he's also saying that he doesn't want his game to be an impulse purchase from someone who never played it. Dude wants his game to be more. He wants people who buy his game to buy it because they really want it, not because fuck it, it's cheap. There's nothing wrong with that.

^^ This is what attracted me to the argument in the first place.

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planetfunksquad

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@believer258 said:

@planetfunksquad said:

I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

Well, he is telling people that they should buy games at full price so they can appreciate them more...

Partly, but he's also saying that he doesn't want his game to be an impulse purchase from someone who never played it. Dude wants his game to be more. He wants people who buy his game to buy it because they really want it, not because fuck it, it's cheap. There's nothing wrong with that.

It's about his creation being appreciated. Every creator wants that.

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falling_fast

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i've never even heard of any of this man's games before.

edit: oh wait, i HAVE heard of Diamond Trust. interesting.

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JuggaloAcidman

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I, for one, will be buying Castle Doctrine! Not only because the game looks like my brand of crazy but also because Rohrer is absolutely right! People that care enough about your game to be there day one should be rewarded!

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zig

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I disagree with nearly every aspect of his argument, but I've certainly got nothing against him refusing to put his own games on sale. I doubt as many people will buy (or play) the game under that business model, but hey, that's his business.

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JZ

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I don't want to be a dick, but this sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Sales are good.

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Justin258

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I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

Well, he is telling people that they should buy games at full price so they can appreciate them more...

@koolaid said:

This discussion seems really strange to me. People seem to be taking this really, really personally. Do people think that he is saying that players who buy games on steam sale are bad people? That's not how I read this at all.

I expected people to have strong opinions on this, but nowhere in Rohrer's discussion (here or on his website) does he say the people who engage in sales culture are bad people. He's only pointing out what he perceives as negative consequences. The fact that some folks are taking this so personally is really surprising to me.

I dunno, it kind of feels like he's telling people "you're not responsible enough to know when and where to spend your money, and your games have no value." I disagree with that, I don't think the amount of money I spent on a game makes it more or less valuable to me. I've brushed away games that I spent $60 on (GTA V) and loved games that I spent $12 on (Tomb Raider).

I can see where people might take it personally.

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Shivoa

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I find it fascinating that this interview seems to carry along with this fantasy world in which sales are a new & innovative way of selling something (Oh noes, Steam has come and done something to games by creating heavily advertised sales on a globally accessible store, often without unit limits) and that now we can get statistics on the number of people who buy & then do not consume something that it is taken as a new trend. There has been a major innovation in moving unit prices to almost zero (so the marginal profit on a single sale can stay stable when selling a game for pennies and not pounds) but sales have been with gaming as long as there have been commercial releases.

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Tomba_be

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So one guy making video games on a very small scale has come to the conclusion how sales are hurting the entire industry?

I admire anyone trying to make a living from his passion, but he's not really an economist now is he? Since most of the publishers partake in big sales, that means companies that actually employ economists think it is profitable to sell at big discounts. I know who I'd put my money on. Other companies don't do discounts (Activision/Blizzard) and they are also doing well. So both strategies are valid from a business standpoint.

As for being a problem for gamers: you can't protect people who have more money than sense. That's also a problem that will solve itself for the most part. Firstly because once people see they have hundreds of games they've never even played, they'll stop buying games just because of a big discount. And secondly most people have started noticing they have all the good games that go on big sales already.

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seannao

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Definitely a more philosophical view on what sales are doing to destroy some games. What I took away from it is that the importance of word of mouth as a way of promoting games doesn't reach people who are waiting for sales as much since their reason for buying the game is because of its low price, rather than from a desire to play it and experience it, and then end up sharing their experience.

I agree with that, but then again, if someone wasn't ever going to buy a game at full price to begin with, then you never access the possibility of a player promoting their game through social means. Ever.

If anything, the negative parts would've come in other forms through the internet and globalization. I have so many games. Soooo many games that even before Steam, largely, popularized their blowout sales (Hey, Black Friday's existed longer than the internet, guys), that my library is just larger than the time I have to play every game.

He's definitely got a point, but I don't think it overrides the positives that sales have given to most creators that've otherwise not seen social or monetary returns.

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Trilogy

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Man, I REALLY disagree with this guy's arguments of sales being bad for consumers. If he wants to argue that game sales are bad for developers, that's perfectly fine, but his choice of language and the way he disguises his arguments is in bad taste. In fact, his original argument was really about how game sales are bad for developers (despite the name of the blog post). Since his blog post got attention, it seems like he decided to double down on this idea that steam sales are bad for consumers, since that's what people latched onto.

First off, how the fuck does this guy get off telling people that they wasted their money? Or, that they've been tricked into buy games for cheap that they don't intent on playing. He's trying to victimize the consumer in an insulting way.

If you feel cheated because you have 500 games in your steam account and you haven't touched 90% of them, guess who cheated you? Yourself. This dude claims that he's disgusted by the concepts of monetary psychology, that is to say positioning your product to get more sales (the .99 cents vs 1 dollar thing). However, he feels that these methods really work, and that they are evil. To this guy, I'm a mindless cow whose being herded around by steam sales. I'm not actually capable of making my own decisions because when I see a game on sale that I have no intention of playing, I can't help but purchase it anyway.

What a load of bullshit.

Not everyone is a compulsive shopper. Those people do exist, but if it's really a problem, they should seek some sort of help. Some people are addicted to alcohol. That doesn't mean that we ban the substance. Plenty of people do drink responsibly, and don't require somebody doing whats best for them.

At the end of the day, this dude is trying to sell me something. He can throw on the sheep's clothing if he wants to, but I'll always question a person's motive. I have zero issue with him selling a game that will never go on sale. Just don't pretend you know what's best for millions of people you've never even met. Especially if you argument is full of holes. A leaky boat doesn't float for long.

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2kings

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@psychohead: Reading your post may have made my day a little better. Thank you.

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@koolaid said:

This discussion seems really strange to me. People seem to be taking this really, really personally. Do people think that he is saying that players who buy games on steam sale are bad people? That's not how I read this at all.

I expected people to have strong opinions on this, but nowhere in Rohrer's discussion (here or on his website) does he say the people who engage in sales culture are bad people. He's only pointing out what he perceives as negative consequences. The fact that some folks are taking this so personally is really surprising to me.

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JuggaloAcidman

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@alwaysbebombing said:

@budwyzer said:

@starvinggamer said:

@joshwent said:

His other point, that getting games for cheap makes you less invested, just seems obviously wrong. No matter what you spend on a game, if you dislike it, that's all that matters. And if you spent more money on a game, it only follows that you'll dislike it... more.

I wish I could find it but actually there was a study that shows that the more expensive something is, the higher your opinion of it is likely to be. It has something to do with your brain trying to reconcile two conflicting ideas: "I spent a lot of money on this thing" and "this thing sucks". Since the cost is a fixed point of data, the only flex room your brain has is in your opinion, so your brain tricks you into thinking it's better than it actually is.

Nope.

I bought FTL for about $2. Loved the hell out of it. STILL love it.

I bought The Bureau for about $25. Was pissed at myself for it, because I expected a higher quality than I got.

Same with FTL duder. I got it on sale and have racked up like, 50 hours or something ridiculous like that.

Dunno where the nope is coming from since nothing you have said is inconsistent with the study's findings.

@starvinggamer is kinda right; I managed to convince myself that Dragon Age 2 was just as good as Origins on release. I was so very, very wrong.

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@budwyzer said:

@starvinggamer said:

@joshwent said:

His other point, that getting games for cheap makes you less invested, just seems obviously wrong. No matter what you spend on a game, if you dislike it, that's all that matters. And if you spent more money on a game, it only follows that you'll dislike it... more.

I wish I could find it but actually there was a study that shows that the more expensive something is, the higher your opinion of it is likely to be. It has something to do with your brain trying to reconcile two conflicting ideas: "I spent a lot of money on this thing" and "this thing sucks". Since the cost is a fixed point of data, the only flex room your brain has is in your opinion, so your brain tricks you into thinking it's better than it actually is.

Nope.

I bought FTL for about $2. Loved the hell out of it. STILL love it.

I bought The Bureau for about $25. Was pissed at myself for it, because I expected a higher quality than I got.

Same with FTL duder. I got it on sale and have racked up like, 50 hours or something ridiculous like that.

Dunno where the nope is coming from since nothing you have said is inconsistent with the study's findings.

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I think 99% of you completely misunderstood what Rohrer was saying here...

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alwaysbebombing

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@waffley said:

Wait a minute, that card...

Is this a nice joke, or a mean joke. Cause it sure is funny.

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Oldirtybearon

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I don't think Rohrer is particularly good at articulating his thoughts (listening to him stammer through the interview is painful), but the gist of what he's saying seems about right. Every time I open Steam (which is a rarity, granted) there's always some ridiculous deal going on where games are on sale for up to 90% off. 90%. I don't think it's too much to ask people to consider the implications and future ramifications of these steep, steep discounts could have on future products/releases. When you've sufficiently trained your customers to always wait for a sale due to their frequency, how the hell do you get them to pay for anything more than two dollars and a hand job?

I don't think sales are evil, or bad, or whatever, but I don't think people should dismiss the idea that ultimately, in the long term, the kinds of insane deals that Steam regularly throws around will negatively affect how business is done on that storefront.

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@alwaysbebombing said:

@icantbestopped said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

@authenticm said:

The Castle Doctrine has already seen its fair share of controversies over its development, ranging from its very premise (a man, not a woman, protecting their family)

Oh for fuck's sake. Are people seriously getting angry over this ?

Have you ever been to the internet?

I don't understand what's to get mad about

I think some people get frustrated because it re-enforces a negative social construct that women are weak and need protecting. I think so don't quote me on that.

Well, on average, they're weaker than men, so in a scenario where the family is in danger, the strongest one should do the protecting. That's common sense, and if people want to turn that into gender politics, that's fine. They're also morons.

Hey hey hey, Not nice. Number one rule on giant bomb is to not be a dick.

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