THQ Outlines Financial Fallout of Ending UFC Deal

That's EA for ya. They don't care at long as no one else is making money. The second someone else can be making money they have to make the same money or try to. EA needs to die.

@NegativeCero: You do know that EA is all about releasing the same franchise every year? Like Madden and FIFA, I believe UFC 2010 and 3 were two years apart. I'm not sure yet if the yearly releases will be a good or bad thing for UFC but FIFA and Madden are getting slightly better with every year.

@akumous said:

The problem is not the sale figures but the massive pay checks the top level employees are asking for, especially the CEOs. If a game sold between 500k plus to a million then that should be good but fixed expenses on making these games are ridiculous and sometimes irrelevant. Thank God for Indie games because at least their quality in terms of length, creativity, and value are surpassing the big boys.

Yeah, not really.

The problem with UFC is that it's a licensed franchise. Meaning THQ doesn't get all the money. I can only assume that they didn't make enough to break even AND pay UFC for a renewal. This is part of what Strauss Zelnick was talking about a few months back, about why he avoids licenses that other companies go for. You prop that license up in the game space, and more often than not, your reward is a bigger license fee when renewal time comes around. Given THQ's almost exclusive reliance on licenses throughout its history, this smacked them senseless as they couldn't pay all these companies anymore.

Fact is, the licensed space is becoming an absolute bitch nowadays. What few license-owners that aren't just making their own in-house studios (Disney, WB) are asking for a crap-ton more money. THQ was never big enough for where licensed games ended up going.

I'd not be surprised if they lost WWE in a year or two.

@vinsanityv22 said:

R.I.P. THQ San Diego. I loved you guys, whether you were making WWE All Stars, Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks (as Midway San Diego), or X-Men Mutant Academy (as Paradox) - you guys KNOW fighting games. You guys do better transitional animations and more responsive, faster paced combat than any other western developer! Even the core Mortal Kombat team (with their reliance on janky, canned combos) couldn't make a game as good as Shaolin Monks! I would've LOVED to see what UFC game you guys were making. *sniff*

If there's any justice in the world, SOMEONE will pick up all the guys from this team and reform them AGAIN. Just so they can keep making awesome fighting games.

I'm also shocked that UFC Undisputed 3 didn't sell well. I thought this was a big part of THQ's business strategy; I remember they were SUPER HAPPY with the first one's sales. It was a million seller back then for sure; did UFC 3 not manage to pass the million mark? That's shocking.

The first one did excellently, but THQ went way too early with another one. This just isn't the sort of thing you make yearly, and UFC 2010 suffered in retail. UFC 3 did well by comparison, but apparently not well enough to give the UFC their money.

What I wanna know is what happens in the future? Everything I'm reading makes it sound like THQ sold the license to EA directly, and while I'm not very contract-smart, I wonder what happens when EA and Dana White are the two at the conference table.

The problem is not the sale figures but the massive pay checks the top level employees are asking for, especially the CEOs. If a game sold between 500k plus to a million then that should be good but fixed expenses on making these games are ridiculous and sometimes irrelevant. Thank God for Indie games because at least their quality in terms of length, creativity, and value are surpassing the big boys.

@nickp said:

It seems EA's big "reveal" at E3 is in fact that they've bought a lossmaking franchise.

I was about to say, THQ wouldn't have let UFC go if they felt it was still making money for them. They clearly saw the franchise as part of the fat they needed to trim.

@familyphotoshoot said:

If this is supposed to be an anigif maybe it comes off better, but as a still it looks like a dude is bent over while another guy is hovering behind him, preparing to anally fist him.

I didn't but sr3 for the humor, I bought it because I was a fan since the first. As long as they bring back the pimp cane shotgun, sr2 level of customization and surprises akin to murderbrawl 21? I think it was 21 but anyway, I will still buy it no matter what. Also COH 2 woooooo!

@MattyT said:

I'm sorry, I just have to get this off of my chest.

Patrick, if you wrote the picture caption (which I'm assuming you did), you should be disappointed. EA doesn't own exclusivity over making MMA games. I get it, it's a subtle dig at EA, "sounds cool" and it's holding of major sports licenses. However, it's inaccurate. If EA had "locked up exclusivity of another sport", Bellator: MMA Onslaught, currently in development at 345 Studios (not affiliated with EA), wouldn't be possible.

No game company owns exclusive rights for an entire sport, merely organizations within said sport. No one ever claimed THQ had exclusivity over all of Pro Wrestling due to the WWE license, although the ethos displayed in this article would suggest exactly that. This claim over sport-wide exclusivity is only used in reference to EA, and only provides ammo for detractors to villify EA for holding these so-called "sport-wide exclusivities".

To use "entire sport" interchangeably with [most prominent organization name within said sport] is irresponsible. It may seem like nobody cares about semantics, but as someone who admires and respects your work, Patrick, I do. If you do read this, thanks for your attention.

No one wants to play sports games that don't feature the largest organizations in those sports (mario games excluded). It's why you when you see someone try to make a non-NFL football game it fails miserably. It's why EA stopped making NCAA Baseball. It's why there is no Euroleague basketball game. So yeah when you gain exclusive rights to the largest leagues you essentially gain sport-wide exclusivity.

the UFC game cost quite a bit too so break-even could be a couple of million units. even if it did "sell well" by most measures with that high of a benchmark, it's going to be tough to make money especially after the UFC takes their cut.

one thing is for sure is that there is probably not going to be really any MMA content for a while because EA has to sort things out like which of their 2 studios will make the game.

Meanwhile I guess there is that $15 Bellator game coming out this summer.... graphics are definitely not as good as the UFC, but it's gotten good feedback from the people who have actually played the game. So maybe I'll check that out.

I'm sorry, I just have to get this off of my chest.

Patrick, if you wrote the picture caption (which I'm assuming you did), you should be disappointed. EA doesn't own exclusivity over making MMA games. I get it, it's a subtle dig at EA, "sounds cool" and it's holding of major sports licenses. However, it's inaccurate. If EA had "locked up exclusivity of another sport", Bellator: MMA Onslaught, currently in development at 345 Studios (not affiliated with EA), wouldn't be possible.

No game company owns exclusive rights for an entire sport, merely organizations within said sport. No one ever claimed THQ had exclusivity over all of Pro Wrestling due to the WWE license, although the ethos displayed in this article would suggest exactly that. This claim over sport-wide exclusivity is only used in reference to EA, and only provides ammo for detractors to villify EA for holding these so-called "sport-wide exclusivities".

To use "entire sport" interchangeably with [most prominent organization name within said sport] is irresponsible. It may seem like nobody cares about semantics, but as someone who admires and respects your work, Patrick, I do. If you do read this, thanks for your attention.

@Hairydutchman: Press A when the big motor rumbles, never go for major transitions, there you go, you now know all there is to that game. Standup only leagues were fun for like 5 minutes, but fight night is a much better punching simulator.

At least the THQ games had some depth to the ground game unlike EA MMA, even with the janky striking and the sucky "shine" thing in the first two. As an offline game even 2009 beat the pants of EA's first attempt.

I hope THQ survives.

EA's MMA was a great game with a mediocre roster (and not a lot of modes). Sucks for THQ, but I think this will be good for the franchise.

Yeeesh, things are looking grim for THQ.

Has anyone from Summer Camp heard about this?

It seems EA's big "reveal" at E3 is in fact that they've bought a lossmaking franchise.

@CountRockula said:

@buft said:

wait... there was a third UFC game?

I was pretty surprised to hear this too.

You guys should watch the quick look, if only for Vinny's reactions.

About the game though, i thought de-annualizing it was a good move, but maybe in the end that backfired (since it sold less than Undisputed 2010). They made significant improvements, but ultimately i still found the career mode a grinding chore. I rented it over a weekend and knew when i was returning it that i'd never play it again.

@LooseChange said:

Should've given it a year instead of just a number? I dunno. I thought it was weird they put a "3" instead of "2011"

Because it wasn't released in 2011, it was released on Feb 14, 2012. THQ was switching to a bi-annual cycle after feedback from the community, among other things.

@Phished0ne said:

So...i wonder if Dana White is actually happy with this license transfer. As mentioned in the article, Dana and EA have had a shaky past. Im interested what kind of changes EA makes to their system, if any. But with some UFC backing and promotion, the concept of live online matches that they attempted with the MMA game could actually be interesting. Also, i will be sad to see head stomps go, that stuff looked brutal in the previous EA MMA title.

UFC Undisputed 3 had head stomps and soccer kicks, as THQ was able to use the PRIDE FC license, which Zuffa (The UFC's parent company) holds. There's no reason that we won't see a similar PRIDE mode in the first EA made UFC game.

Personally, I'm kind of hyped for this - I've always thought that if EA MMA's gameplay could be combined with the UFC's graphical fidelity and license, it'd result in the ultimate MMA game...now we get an opportunity to see if that's true.

So...i wonder if Dana White is actually happy with this license transfer. As mentioned in the article, Dana and EA have had a shaky past. Im interested what kind of changes EA makes to their system, if any. But with some UFC backing and promotion, the concept of live online matches that they attempted with the MMA game could actually be interesting. Also, i will be sad to see head stomps go, that stuff looked brutal in the previous EA MMA title.

I enjoyed Undisputed 3 and appreciated the tweaks and add-ons they made to that game compared to 2010, such as the addition of the Pride presentation (Go Wanderlei Silva!). I am however pessimistic of the UFC being in EA's hands due to their tendency to making sports game an annual affair and what I think most people have mentioned already, EA sports MMA. UFC is one of those sports where an updated roster doesn't make a huge difference in warranting another buy every year, though I could say the same thing about Madden and for some reason I somehow find myself thinking of buying the latest one. Hopefully, from my perspective they put it in the hands of the developer of the Fight Night series, while admitting to not necessarily being the biggest boxing fan I enjoyed the last two games and liked how they really tried to change it up with each release.

@jakob187 said:

UFC Undisputed 3 didn't sell? That's...actually a shock. That game is pretty fucking greatly made. The improvements to it made it far more accessible than the previous two entries, and it felt like they were making some headway into turning that license from merely okay to something stellar.

Now that it's going to EA...and based on what EA MMA turned out to be, I'm pretty sure I won't be bothering with the franchise anymore. Too damn bad.

It's nice to see THQ moving away from licensed stuff and instead getting into original IPs. I just hope they don't drop the 40k license anytime soon.

EA MMA blew UFC Undisputed out of the water gameplay wise, the fighting system worked better, and the animations were smooth as butter, Undisputed felt like two robots fighting each other.

Should've given it a year instead of just a number? I dunno. I thought it was weird they put a "3" instead of "2011"

R.I.P. THQ San Diego. I loved you guys, whether you were making WWE All Stars, Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks (as Midway San Diego), or X-Men Mutant Academy (as Paradox) - you guys KNOW fighting games. You guys do better transitional animations and more responsive, faster paced combat than any other western developer! Even the core Mortal Kombat team (with their reliance on janky, canned combos) couldn't make a game as good as Shaolin Monks! I would've LOVED to see what UFC game you guys were making. *sniff*

If there's any justice in the world, SOMEONE will pick up all the guys from this team and reform them AGAIN. Just so they can keep making awesome fighting games.

I'm also shocked that UFC Undisputed 3 didn't sell well. I thought this was a big part of THQ's business strategy; I remember they were SUPER HAPPY with the first one's sales. It was a million seller back then for sure; did UFC 3 not manage to pass the million mark? That's shocking.

EA's MMA game was really pretty great.  It was fun and played well.  The live online stuff they tried out was a lot of fun (when it worked).  I'm looking forward to their UFC-blessed version whenever it comes out.

@Patrick Klepek said:

THQ did not make it clear why it decided to transfer the license, but it’s pretty clear:

Huh? Does anyone read this shit before posting it?

@WVUEers said:

@NegativeCerosaid:

Maybe yearly UFC games were not the way to go with it, but I'm sure EA will do the exact same thing. We'll see if they get better sales.

Which is why they actually were on a two year cycle. The last UFC game before 3 was UFC 2010

Was it? Huh. Guess I've gotten my MMA games meshed together

@NegativeCerosaid:

Maybe yearly UFC games were not the way to go with it, but I'm sure EA will do the exact same thing. We'll see if they get better sales.

Which is why they actually were on a two year cycle. The last UFC game before 3 was UFC 2010

Undisputed 3 came out at some point in March. The site did a QL on it. Honestly it's a really, really well put together game. Of the small technical issues I had with the previous games, none of them were present in UFC 3. The game was also packed with content. The addition of Pride wasn't just cosmetic either, all of the Pride specific rules were included. Not that they're exactly conflicting markets but maybe the fact that UFC 3 dropped around the time Mass Effect 3 did led to it be lost. Overall though I can't speak higher of the gamer.

Rubin has been pretty a pretty visible guy the las two weeks. He has a mountain to climb to try to get that publisher profitable, and THQ has been hinting since their doom and gloom conference call a few months back that they were going to severely shake things up.

The man just needs to be a bit more tactful when speaking with the press. The comments about Saint's Row were blown up out of proportions, partly due to how the interview was worded.

I'd actually heard that Undisputed 3 did around 2 million. That's pretty crazy, especially since it wasn't profitable.

Yeah, like some other commenters, I had no idea THQ made a third UFC game. Too bad, the first and second ones seemed really well made.

They should have never tried to go annual with the UFC games. I'm a huge fan of the sport but unless they want to become as inessential as NFL games or COD they should slow it down.

Hopefully EA can make these games worthwhile.

@CountRockula said:

@buft said:

wait... there was a third UFC game?

I was pretty surprised to hear this too.

I thought heard about the game when it was released but when looking at both the actual release date and the box art, I clearly missed this one. Dont know if it was the poor marketing or if it was just me not actively seeking it out that caused it to dip below my radar. Im going to guess if there are three of us that missed it, there are probably more.

UFC games certainly won't sell in the way WWE games do. It is a matter of demographics and how often these guys fight. It should be a series that has a game every 2 to 3 years like fight night. Let new guys who have risen up be put into the game. Difficulty of a UFC game also, is unlike other sports, where you see and hear the players names every week while a season is going on or like in the WWE, every week all year, so people won't go rush out to buy a guy when they really only get attached to 1 or 2 guys who fight maybe 2 times a year.

@buft said:

wait... there was a third UFC game?

I was pretty surprised to hear this too.

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=undisputed Closest thing to sales figures you'll get, I know VGChartz sucks but if they're anywhere close to right..yeesh that's a pretty steady decline.

I'm stunned it didn't sell well, is there sell figures? I would like to see those

There was an undisputed 3? Huh. I guess that explains why it didn't sell.

I like UFC quite a bit, but I don't think it has the following to have yearly iterations, like say the NFL or NBA.

Soooo, is THQ getting paid by EA, or what? This seems like the kind of move that's usually accompanied by payola... THQ could certainly use some of that. Also;

@OriginalGman: NooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Man reading that article on Rubin's thoughts on Saints Row..the dude just genuinely does not get why the game was successful. It's never going to cut it as a second-rate GTA.

wait... there was a third UFC game?

Dana White certainly changed his tune regarding EA and the UFC license. Did he even thank THQ for it's service to the license the past few years?

As for the closures and severance package things. That is certainly a bummer.

    All I want to know is if there's going to be soccer kicks and stomps.

@jakob187 said:

UFC Undisputed 3 didn't sell? That's...actually a shock. That game is pretty fucking greatly made. The improvements to it made it far more accessible than the previous two entries, and it felt like they were making some headway into turning that license from merely okay to something stellar.

Now that it's going to EA...and based on what EA MMA turned out to be, I'm pretty sure I won't be bothering with the franchise anymore. Too damn bad.

It's nice to see THQ moving away from licensed stuff and instead getting into original IPs. I just hope they don't drop the 40k license anytime soon.

The online was significantly worse than previous iterations of the game even with their server alpha. I shelved that game pretty quick after being unable to play a lag free online game, and seeing that they never really fixed the disconnecting players problem from UFC 09.

ironically, I always thought EA MMA was a better gameplay experience than Undisputed. I've been training BJJ for five years now and the grappling system for MMA was a better allegory than Undisputed. Undisputed was more of a button masher to me.

Maybe yearly UFC games were not the way to go with it, but I'm sure EA will do the exact same thing. We'll see if they get better sales.

Sweaty man-hugging, whatever. How about instead we discuss new THQ president Jason Rubin wanting to turn Saints Row back into a shameless GTA clone without any adult humor? Obviously, that company is on the right track. I can't wait to see how they want to make Darksiders 3 even more like Zelda.

http://www.destructoid.com/new-thq-president-wants-an-adult-humor-free-saints-row-229326.phtml

I remember Dana White's comments in 2009, heheh.

I find this kinda weird, if UFC 3 did poor, and EA MMA was dead on arrival at retail, I wonder what EA's expectations are? Maybe they are going to have a big marketing push, but I won't be picking it up. Since Genki Sudo retired, in my mind MMA is now and forever associated with the last scene of Bruno and a bro fanbase that screams anguished denials about the homoeroticism of their favoured sport :)