When Passions Flare, Lines Are Crossed [UPDATED]

People need to look at more of the FGC than just those clips and Cross Assault.

1. Maximilian the Online Warrior: Great and informative videos for fighting games and Call of Duty. Check out his work and see the new face of the FGC.

2. Level Up Series: They were the first to ban racism and most profanity on their stream. They stream a weekly event "Wednesday Night Fights" that is a lot of fun to watch and other than the weak pre-game show it is very professional. Find clips on their youtube page to start and maybe catch a stream.

3. Cross Counter - Gootecks and Mike Ross: Pro players that reached out to the online community and now have a pretty decent weekly live show. They are a safe start for most people and Mike Ross did have a documentary done about him. They make good Youtube videos and have called out offensive people on xbox live.

4. Ultra David and James Chen. They are the professional voices of the FGC. They are always good to listen to.

5. Iplaywinner: 50/50. They have great streams, but they pride themselves in keeping aggressive arcade culture alive. They have tried to make things better in the past and one of their writers even wrote a post about sexism - http://iplaywinner.com/news/2011/11/2/the-salty-runback-oktoberfest.html They aren't perfect, but they have been working on it.

DON'T LOOK AT THE CHAT. THAT IS ALWAYS GOOD ADVICE.

I also want to mention that Jared isn't perfect. I watched the TNT when he pitched Frame Trap and I watched every episode of that show. Jared was a perfect example of the childish cynicism that he harped on while talking to Jeff and the gang. He picked on fans of non street fighter games and passed judgement on games he never played.

@RagingDaemon: No. You do not get the "choice" to be sexist.

Not without people rightfully calling you out.

@Milkman:

Did you know we're (I mean the Japanese) getting around to building the space elevator that will inevitably lead to the fabled murder (space) slingshot?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/28/a-space-elevator-by-2050-_n_1307268.html

I wonder what the reaction would be if instead of shouting about rape, it was, "That nigger is getting hung!" I'm guessing people would be generally less cool with it.

@Milkman: Was that an attempt to shame me? No tide of first year gender studies white knights or otherwise weak thinking people are going to get anywhere with just insults. Are you sure this isn't the comment section of Jezebel or Feministing?

@Sword5: Well at least he's not 100% OPPOSED to MK. Go visit SRK some time, that forum is the fucking WORST when it comes to shitting on Ed Boon and Co.

@RagingDaemon said:

If this is the kind of crying and hand-wringing that ensues, "Esports" just needs its own version of a WNBA that no one gives a shit about and no one watches because comparatively speaking it's unskilled garbage. I can remember an 8 year old boy getting close to the finals at the last EVO. Can't remember a single woman getting that far.

"Correlation does not imply causation" - Perhaps the reason a single woman didn't get that far is a symptom of the inherent misogynist tendencies of the community.

Real talk: name a single thing women have ever invented that men clamored to be a part of? Vagina doesn't count. Everything from dungeons and dragons to combat sports started as a by dudes, for dudes cool thing.

Really? Let's see... How about Dr. Grace Murray Hopper? She lead the team that created the first proper computer language, COBOL. This site and probably half the stuff you use a day is influenced by her actions.

Or maybe how about Stephanie Kwolek? Her chemical research created Kevlar. Or Patsy Sherman, another chemist who created Scotchguard? I could go on all night but what a ridiculous statement for you to have made...

If the community doesn't want to change and is willing to give up some or all of the corporate money to be free, it's their choice. The choice of the guys who were there from day 1 and paid their dues. They don't need your idealistic bullshit moral highground finger wagging.

Just because a "good ol' boy" club exists doesn't mean they should get a free pass. Times change and people are expected to grow up and change with them or they will be left behind. Of course that is there choice they are free to choose whatever they want.

Or it's entirely possible mainstream culture accepts the behavior. Look to rap lyrics and torture porn style horror movies for one. Competitive outlets must exist. You cannot shut away the primal and negative sides of human emotion because in your rainbow sunshine worldview that would be real nice.

Don't confuse free speech with acceptance of an idea, people can say whatever they want. Doesn't mean you have to listen or accept them.

Those of you going nuclear at this smack of hyper liberal idealists who are either ignorant or willfully naive about how the real world with real people works. It's ugly. We're tribal.

So it's fine to just give in to your baser side and be a horrible human being? I thought the idea was to be a better person and rise above that.

Look at your righteous indignation and understand there are people who legitimately wish one or all of their hobbies never went mainstream. Back when it was just the truly passionate working in the trenches without leeches and Johnny come latelys trying to change the shit the pioneers built. And people who wanted to be a part of it had to be able to handle it.

I was a huge time anime fan back in the day, back when we were still bootlegging VHS tapes and subtitling things with Amiga with genlocks.. I saw the same thing as anime became more mainstream. Plenty of anger from people, screaming how anime isn't pure and the new fans are posers. Isn't the point of prompting a hobby to expose to to more people? To get people to share your passion for it? You are winning, people are taking notice. I don't understand why you would push away those you were trying to attract in the first place?

This situation reminds me of the vast majority of women who tried to hang in one of my former kickboxing gyms. They would talk a good game, but the first real, full force punch to the face, and they were gone. The ones who stayed and flourished weren't the cry babies, mentally weak, victim mentality types.

I'm not even sure what to say to this? Equating sexual harassment to sparring? No one wants to be broken down, male or female.

I agree that his comments were sexist! Very sexist! But, I disagree with people saying that the clothing in fighting games is sexist... Both men and women alike wear little to nothing in fighting games! I think that female fighters in a bikini and dude fighters going shirtless is not really that bad!

@Zokari: One dude engaged anything I had to say with any substance. The rest of you that responded were clearly gotten to and went right to some version of insults that didn't even contain a cursory element of calling someone out. Point out things I said that were untrue, provide counter examples. Like a woman that won an EVO, or say the WNBA gets awesome ratings for their terrific slam dunks. If you want to pepper ad homs in between that, go nuts. Otherwise I write you off as both indoctrinated and too stupid to even explain yourself.

@depecheload said:

Oh, and fucking relevant:

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/nerds-and-male-privilege/all/1/

Great article, bookmarked for the next time this subject rear its ugly head.

@pekoe212 said:

@Duffyside said:

I feel... I feel like that time Superman realized he needed to team up with Lex Luthor to defeat Darkseid. That to save the world, he had to team up with the world's greatest enemy.

I... yes. It has to be done. No matter the cost.

Guys? We need Leigh Alexander to get involved in the fighting game community.

Oh my God. I...am trying to picture how that would end. All I see is death.

I know. ... Glorious, isn't it?

@RagingDaemon: What the fuck are you talking about, you simpleton? Women do not need to win a tournament to be deserving of being treated with respect.

@RagingDaemon: The people that matter support Super__Yan's actions. Continue on thinking everybody wants this, because they don't. A couple want to hold it back and to themselves like they are still in high school. Nope! Don't think so. Either you guys mature with the rest of them kicking and screaming, or be left behind.

It's as simple as that. It's not 1997 anymore.

i think aris was trying to articulate this but vaught up in the moment

http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/2/22/the-salty-runback-nelson-muntz.html

I wish I could sift through all of these comments and join in the conversation/shit slinging, but, mother of god, those comments.

The worst part about it, I bet that Aris guy is enjoying all of the attention he is getting.  I try to watch some of the fighting game tournaments on twitch, but just about every announcer is racist and/or sexist.  It's like, they took the anonymity that people hide behind on the internet and removed it and that's how they act in real life now.
 
What is funny...is the MOBA community is even worse than the fighting game community if you can believe that.

@GreggD: There is a reason I didn't list SRK. They have some good people and do work with Level Up, but their forums are huge risk for beginners to wander into. They also have links to the old guard of SF players that spawned Aris.

Fans of MK should check out TestYourMight and follow 16bit on twitter. His podcast is okay.

There are a lot of great things coming out of the FGC. Cross Assault was a bad marketing experiment that was doomed from the start when they picked Aris. It also seemed poorly planned when it came to the events. Shouldn't have been live.

@Robo said:

@benson said:

Gender, even on a purely genetic standpoint, isn't a binary thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_determination_and_differentiation_(human)

Thanks for proving my point.

@mrfluke: Like I said to the other guy, despite the Ryu a/v, I'm not a part of the fighting game community. My stance on that issue is that if their community wants to change, it should be their culture changing from within, not having to bow under populist pressure from all these people dying to protect an innocent little girl from the mean misogynists. I'll always give props to the elitists who kept the culture alive when no one cared about them. They were fine before the casual revival, if it fades out as a fad, they'll be fine after.

This is what the FGC is about. Fuck the fringe players. They can have their awful sexist rape jokes and awkward advances. Nobody gives a shit about them anymore.

@RagingDaemon: Hahaha, oh my God. "I stand with the misogynists." How courageous of you. You're sort of like Gandhi, or maybe Nelson Mandela.

@Robo said:

@benson: Right. Because he didn't write a whole book about how he was born a man and chose to be a woman. Seriously, fuck off.

So you finally admit that she IS a woman! You're making progress!

edit to respond to your edit: I did read it, it shows clearly that gender isn't a binary thing and is determined by a multiplicity of factors wich can be affected by a number of pathologies.

It's way too late for me to bother throwing in my two cents, but I'm glad that this story's blown up over the past couple of days. People shouldn't be dicks. Quit being dicks, people!

This is new and exciting.

No really, Aris is actually right to a certain extent, not only has he been doing exactly the same thing for years now (just take a look at his recent SC5 streams for reference) but so have a large portion of the SF/SC/Tekken/whatever else commentators. I find it odd that people are only starting to complain now.

@RagingDaemon: It's because most of your points are stupid.

I actually do agree that people in the people in the FGC have every right to act the way they do. It is their community and if they want to keep it insular and not "sell out", which in this case means institutionalizing abusive and unsportsmanlike behavior, it is their prerogative. Aris just shouldn't be surprised at any backlash that comes as a result.

Sperg away

@RagingDaemon said:

If this is the kind of crying and hand-wringing that ensues, "Esports" just needs its own version of a WNBA that no one gives a shit about and no one watches because comparatively speaking it's unskilled garbage. I can remember an 8 year old boy getting close to the finals at the last EVO. Can't remember a single woman getting that far.

Real talk: name a single thing women have ever invented that men clamored to be a part of? Vagina doesn't count. Everything from dungeons and dragons to combat sports started as a by dudes, for dudes cool thing.

If the community doesn't want to change and is willing to give up some or all of the corporate money to be free, it's their choice. The choice of the guys who were there from day 1 and paid their dues. They don't need your idealistic bullshit moral highground finger wagging.

Or it's entirely possible mainstream culture accepts the behavior. Look to rap lyrics and torture porn style horror movies for one. Competitive outlets must exist. You cannot shut away the primal and negative sides of human emotion because in your rainbow sunshine worldview that would be real nice.

Those of you going nuclear at this smack of hyper liberal idealists who are either ignorant or willfully naive about how the real world with real people works. It's ugly. We're tribal.

Look at your righteous indignation and understand there are people who legitimately wish one or all of their hobbies never went mainstream. Back when it was just the truly passionate working in the trenches without leeches and Johnny come latelys trying to change the shit the pioneers built. And people who wanted to be a part of it had to be able to handle it.

This situation reminds me of the vast majority of women who tried to hang in one of my former kickboxing gyms. They would talk a good game, but the first real, full force punch to the face, and they were gone. The ones who stayed and flourished weren't the cry babies, mentally weak, victim mentality types.

Real Talk: Things that women invented that might be important to men. Hmm... lets see... maybe kevlar, fireproof materials... the circular saw... computer languages such as COBOL...

But lets stick to strictly nerd stuff. How about our beloved Street Fighter? God, SF2 sure had a kicking soundtrack huh? I wonder who was responsible for composing most of that game, along with a few other nerd-famous games...

Or what about comic books? Certainly that is a male dominated genre! I'll bet a woman wouldn't go anywhere near those things...

Look, no one is forcing them to change their ways. But that doesn't mean that people can't criticize them for what they choose to say. It works both ways.

Edit: Ack, too slow on the draw I guess. Somebody beat me to my first sentence. Ah well.

@Katkillad said:

What is funny...is the MOBA community is even worse than the fighting game community if you can believe that.

It depends on which MOBA we're talking about. HoN is the absolute worst in my experience while the DOTA 2 community has been surprisingly cool so far.

@Robo said:

@benson: No, you're just arguing with utter nonsense because you don't really understand the topic or the statement I made.

You didn't read a word of the link I posted. You are completely ignoring the fact that the individual in question admits to being born genetically male.

Unless you want to really provide some pertinent proof to the contrary, again, fuck off.

Nah, I'm pretty confident of the fact that I have a better grasp on transgender issues than you, and I intend to stay.

The excuses for his behavior are excruciatingly poor. A white supremacist cannot be pardoned for using the n-word just because that's what's expected of him and because he's passionate about his cause.

@DrPockets000 said:

The excuses for his behavior are excruciatingly poor. A white supremacist cannot be pardoned for using the n-word just because that's what's expected of him and because he's passionate about his cause.

See: The moronic argument over racism in the Starcraft 2 community around mid-way through last year.

@depecheload:

Woah woah dude, did you miss the part where I said I didn't support that kind of talk at all?

I'm saying it's stupid to call it sexist. Imagine you were a man who was raped; you wouldn't find it funny then, either. I'm just humored by women claiming to be offended by the word "rape" everywhere it's used because they say it's "sexist". Because only women can be raped, right?

My point is that you can go play any game online, and hear "Get raped bitch!" in a lobby full of just GUYS. It's ludicrous for a woman to join up in such a session, and then claim that they're only saying those things to her because she's a woman and the guys she's with are sexist. They're just dumbasses.

Even though this is blown out of proportion, the fact still remains that Aris would rather have a community of 15-20 year olds who are hostile to new comers than a larger, more accepting community.

I don't care how you frame it, that's just childish. Hopefully someday he'll mature and realize how great a real community is.

@Sword5: TestYourMight is great with welcoming new players to Mortal Kombat. It's one of the benefits of having a smaller community. A lot of the top players are actually willing to play you online... even though MK's online leaves something to be desired... They also are usually good with advice.

TYM actually reminds me of Giant Bomb in a weird way. And it's funny that you mention 16 Bit because he's actually a member of Giant Bomb. I saw him wearing a GB T-shirt in pools right before he won an MK major. Cool stuff.

@Crysack said:

@DrPockets000 said:

The excuses for his behavior are excruciatingly poor. A white supremacist cannot be pardoned for using the n-word just because that's what's expected of him and because he's passionate about his cause.

See: The moronic argument over racism in the Starcraft 2 community around mid-way through last year.

Oh damn, totally forgot about that. All is excused, then. Carry on, Aris.

@Sword5: Fair enough. I think the main thing with fighting games and me is that I don't really wanna get to the point where I'm counting frames. I'm wicked casual, but I LOVE to play them. It's really hard finding like-minded players in my particular "bracket", though. And then I read this article and what's going on, and it kinda seems to stem from what I've learned about the FGC, and how it's really impenitrable and for a specific subset of players.

I will say this, though. People defending Aris are not good people. He is wrong, and seems like a despicable human being. He has the right to say what he wants, but that doesn't take away our right to react the way we did to it.

@Robo: Let me check my inbox to verify if I changed any part of your post... nope, that big paragraph at the end that once again doesn't support your argument wasn't there before.

@ADV215: "I am coming for you Tom Brady" was the Lincoln Force t-shirt guy. Bizarre and amazing video.

Patrick should reach out to 16-bit. Top 8 in Evo and a giantbomb fan.

After reading this and seeing what this guy looks like I have a few adjectives that I feel adequately describe him:

• Juggalo (ICP fan)
• Unhealthy
• Obese
• Uneducated
• Unclean
• Lonely (based on his amazing ability to alienate anyone of the opposite sex)

Ok i just need to say my 2 cents about this.

First, Miranda enabled the guy, not only did she not say anything about his behaviour but she also took part and said some pretty retarded stuff (talking about korean p**** sizes and that she likes being hit on by black guys and other pretty stupid stuff) during all those days of the show, in all those days she was laughing, talking with Aris, engaging on his conversations even when they turned stupid, all the while without any problems, forget the fact that she also said she didnt give a damn about what he was doing.

Then we have Sherry, the girl that was part of the other team, shes personally acquainted with Aris and they are friends, she says hes a pretty good guy(a sentiment shared by the people at cross assault that know him by the way) but he can seem like a pretty rude and mean guy to the people that dont know him and has come out and said that the way Miranda acted to the whole situation was uncalled for, she also said that if Miranda said anything to him and said to him that she didnt like the way he was treating her he would have stopped, but none of that happened.

Heres the thing about the FGC, they all trash talk, just see any tournament streams or videos by so called "professional players" and you will see this and in a community that likes to talk trash on anyone it is true that people need to toughen up and not pay attention to the s*** thats flinged at them. Another thing his that the FGC is a pretty emotional one, they vibrate and live for the hype in matches, it is a competition, especially an action packed genre like FGs , the whole "Rape that b****" was only about a character in a game that was unfair and overpowered that people would make these kinds of comments in the heat of the moment isnt surprising, similarly the same can be said with "kill that guy" or "F*** him up", people say these things and they dont have any real malice intended, especially in competitive games.

Now about Aris himself, sure he should have controled himself more, but how things played out in all these days of Cross Assault isnt all on him, he isnt some villain that needs to be crucified, because besides the fact that he was insensitive, Miranda(Super_Yan) did go along with him and took part in all of his B******.

Great job Patrick. This needed to be written.

Yeah, that guy is a grade A dickhead, and the fact that he thinks there's "nothing unacceptable" about how he behaved himself makes me even more angry. I hope the fighting game community shuns him.

for some reason this fighting game community aris speaks of isn't what my FGC that i've been a part of is.

Tune in now - http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/feb/28/cross-counter-live-rip-myk-li-joe-and-renic/

Nevermind. The moment has passed. I hope someone posted a clip of when they were talking about the change that needs to happen. Before the jokes.

I think the best part is when he tells Jared he's not truly part of the fighting game community.

@chaosnovaxz said:

@depecheload:

Woah woah dude, did you miss the part where I said I didn't support that kind of talk at all?

I'm saying it's stupid to call it sexist. Imagine you were a man who was raped; you wouldn't find it funny then, either. I'm just humored by women claiming to be offended by the word "rape" everywhere it's used because they say it's "sexist". Because only women can be raped, right?

My point is that you can go play any game online, and hear "Get raped bitch!" in a lobby full of just GUYS. It's ludicrous for a woman to join up in such a session, and then claim that they're only saying those things to her because she's a woman and the guys she's with are sexist. They're just dumbasses.

The "bitch" in "get raped bitch" is either a woman or a man who is being given the "role" of a woman by being called "bitch." It's a sexist comment. Deal with it.

And even if using the word rape everywhere isn't sexist, it's stupid, immature, hyperbolic, overplayed and horribly offensive.

Have at it guys.

http://memegenerator.net/Aris-Bakhtanians

Real Talk: anyone who shouts "rape that bitch" in a public place should have thier goddamn balls cut off.