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When Passions Flare, Lines Are Crossed [UPDATED]

One player's heated rhetoric about sexual harassment in the fighting community causes a furious debate, one that has Capcom apologizing.

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UPDATE: Bakhtanians has issued a statement in the wake of today's coverage. Read it here.

--

“This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20-years-old and the sexual harassment is part of a culture,” said competitive fighting game player Aris "Aris" Bakhtanians on a recent live stream for Capcom's Cross Assault show, “and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community.”

Capcom has since apologized for comments made during a conversation on sexual harassment in the fighting game community, which that quote was pulled from. It was a discussion focused on Bakhtanians, and took place during a recent episode of the company’s Cross Assault reality show. It’s part of a promotion for Street Fighter X Tekken.

Cross Assault started with 10 contestants divided into two teams, Team Tekken and Team Street Fighter. The final four contestants will be determined today, and the last matches begin March 3.

A reader initially pointed out the inflammatory commentary, which took place during day five.

Bakhtanians is the head of Team Tekken, and was engaged in a conversation that chiefly involved Twitch.tv community manager Jared Rea. Twitch.tv is hosting the daily streaming of the day-long Cross Assault episodes.

“The views and opinions expressed by cast members in the live internet program 'Cross Assault' do not reflect those of Capcom,” said a Capcom spokesperson in a statement issued to me last night. “As a company, Capcom believes that everyone should be treated with respect. This particular issue was brought to our attention and has been addressed. We sincerely apologize to anyone that was offended by any comments expressed during the show.”

You can listen to the conversation by fast forwarding to one hour and 45 minutes into the following video. A user on YouTube also collected a series of comments made by Bakhtanians on day one.

For example: "Miranda, I wanna know your bra size."

Tensions were immediately raised over Rea's suggestion the fighting game community, once insular and limited but now steadily growing year-over-year, was potentially alienating outsiders from becoming fans of fighting games or the competitive scene because of inappropriate sexual language. Bakhtanians took issue with Rea's criticism.

Here’s a lengthy transcript of their exchange:

Rea: You know what it is, to be honest with you? We’re getting older. Do you really want to keep hanging around with a bunch of [guys in their] early 20s who don’t know how to treat one another with respect? That’s what it is.

Bakhtanians: Alright, man. The thing is...if you don’t like the scene, how it is right now, it just seems like you’re trying to create...turn it into something that it’s not, and it’s never going to be. You know what I mean?

Rea: That’s really unfortunate [inaudible]...the way it is right now, they want to enjoy fighting games, but they’re so incredibly turned off by [the language].

Bakhtanians: This doesn’t involve me, Jared, I don’t know if you can hear me--this is Aris. This doesn’t really involve me, but if you don’t like onions, you get your sandwich without onions, man. I mean, this is the fighting game community.

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can’t. You can’t because they’re one and the same thing. This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft. There’s nothing wrong with StarCraft if you enjoy it, and there’s nothing wrong with anything about eSports, but why would you want just one flavor of ice cream, you know? There’s eSports for people who like eSports, and there’s fighting games for people who like spicy food and like to have fun. There’s no reason to turn them into the same thing, you know?

You can’t go to the NBA and say “hey, I like basketball, but I don’t want them to play with a basketball, I want them to play with a football.” It just doesn’t...it doesn’t make sense to have that attitude, you know? These things are established for years. That would be like someone from the fighting game community going over to StarCraft and trying to say “hey, StarCraft, you guys are too soft, let’s start making sexual harassment jokes to each other on StarCraft.” That’s not cool, people wouldn’t like that. StarCraft isn’t like that. People would get defensive, and that’s what you’re trying to do the fighting game community, and it’s not right. It’s ethically wrong.

I know that you’re thinking “what do you know about ethics? You say racial stuff and sexist stuff.” But those are jokes and if you were really a member of the fighting game community, you would know that. You would know that these are jokes.

Rea: So, ensuring that we alienate any and all female viewers...that’s the ethical thing to do?

Bakhtanians: Well, you know, there are layers here, if you think about this. There are layers of ethics. There are people who are racist and commit hate crimes, right? And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends. Do you think those people are one and the same? Absolutely not.

StarCraft was brought up several times during the discussion of fighting games role in the larger eSports movement, specifically in regards to what lessons the community should and should not learn from its popularity.

I reached out to Bakhtanians to discuss his comments on Cross Assault, but he didn't respond.

When I contacted Capcom, I included a transcript of the relevant conversation. The company told me the cast and crew had been informed that “any inappropriate or disrespectful comments will not be tolerated during filming.”

Upon receiving the statement from Capcom, I forwarded it in full to Bakhtanians. No response.

And there is one very important fact about this whole story: Cross Assault is not a male-only event. There are two females: Team Street Fighter’s Sherry “Sherryjenix” Nhan and Team Tekken’s Miranda “Super_Yan” Pakozdi.

During the exchange, as matches raged in the background, Pakozdi chimed in about Bakhtanians’ explanation for the pervasiveness of inappropriate sexual language within fighting game culture.

“It hurts the community,” she said.

Everyone in the stream made reference to Keystone events at the San Jose Bar & Grill in San Jose, California, a spot that’s reportedly known for its more crass comments about during play. Pakozdi acknowledged it was an issue during Keystone events, but that it never went, from her perspective, over the line.

“You don’t know where the line is,” she declared.

“My point is is where I’m from, in our arcade, our line may be different than yours,” responded Bakhtanians, “but the point is that fighting games are never gonna be the same as StarCraft, it’s never gonna be the same. You can’t turn basketball into baseball, no matter what you do.”

Rea said sexual harassment was less of an issue in the StarCraft community, a point that others, including Bakhtanians, pushed back on. He conceded. Regardless, he argued, private matches can’t be controlled, but the actions of the participants and audience members raised the real concern.

Again, here’s a snippet:

Rea: When I go to MSL or MLG and someone blows up a ghost [Starcraft], does someone go “Yeah, rape that bitch!”?

[group laughter]

Bakhtanians: But, you know, Jared, you’re right. But if there was that much money being spent on Street Fighter, it wouldn’t be happening here, either, you know. There would be more rules, there would be security here, it’s not the same thing. It’s not the same thing.

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There’s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we’re in America, man, this isn’t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

There was some light discussion after this, but it mostly trailed off.

Pakozdi, who was assigned to work with Bakhtanians as part of Team Tekken, did not simply blow things off. Like many people, she signed onto Twitter and expressed disappointment over the day’s events. She eventually deleted much of her commentary, but it was captured by the same reader who tipped me off to this in the first place.

“I hope my mom isn’t disappointed with all of this shit,” reads one tweet.

“Capcom and the stream teams know and they don’t care. I just gotta wait 2 more days,” reads another.

“I’m not leaving because by contract I have to stay here 2 more days. If it were up to me I would have left long ago," she said.

Bakhtanians is a well known in the community, explaining his Cross Assault involvement.
Bakhtanians is a well known in the community, explaining his Cross Assault involvement.

I reached out to Pakozdi, but she did not respond.

Day six of Cross Assault took place yesterday. Pakozdi played, but if you start watching around eight hours and 32 minutes into the stream, where she's playing as Balrog, she doesn't even attack. She just pushes forward on the stick. This continues in the next matches, where she plays as Ken using the same "strategy."

Essentially, she's given up.

Per the rules of the show, she would then have to face off against John "Dr. Sub-Zero" Rockafeller, who was already eliminated. If he beat her in three out of five matches, he would be "revived."

Instead, she forfeited. Moments after she bowed out, Rockafeller looked over and handed his prizes over to her.

“I would like to donate everything to Super_Yan for being an angel,” he said.

Bakhtanians also contributes the website Avoiding the Puddle and the site’s associated Twitter account.

“esports,” he wrote last night.

Previously, however, he did have his own personal Twitter account. What’s listed in his bio?

“Fuck you.”

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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Grondoth

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Edited By Grondoth

Wow, these comments are reminding me how terrible video game people are with gender issues. For a hobby that embraces technological innovation, a big chunk of you guys are pretty backwards. Harassment isn't tolerable. Sexism isn't funny or acceptable. We've got to grow up as a community.

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NancyDrewFan123

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Edited By NancyDrewFan123

@Conceited said:

Great, now a bunch of people who have no idea what happened and have no perspective on this because they aren't involved in the FGC will blow this infinitely out of proportion and think the FGC is filled with scumbags. While I realize Aris is largely to blame for this, this article did not need to be written. Why not do a positive piece on how awesome the FGC is? How accepting they are of Ricky Ortiz (openly gay) and Kayopolice? (Trans-gendered)

I don't know if you're going to win your argument by pointing out two people that are both constantly the object of ridicule and scorn within the fighting game community. I mean, even the "nice" members of the FGC have some not cool things to say about Kayo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU378JRzsuU

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moregrammarplz

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Edited By moregrammarplz

@Pinworm45 said:

I think the PC culture is fucking garbage and needs to be replaced with something I prefer.

Who the fuck are you to dictate what a group of people can and can not enjoy? Who the fuck are you to be this moral arbiter? How about you exercise your rights to ignore that which you don't like, and partake in that which you do? I'm not going out of my way to force you and your group of friends to swear do whatever you don't like, show me the same respect (or at least that's what I'd say if I was part of their group, I'm not)

But you don't deserve respect. All you do is insult each other and do hateful shit like chant "BITCH BITCH BITCH" when a woman is playing.

I don't care about your culture. Just because eSports wants to be an exclusive little club doesn't exempt them from having to act like decent human beings. Same goes for all the other similar communities that eSports apologists cite as evidence that it's okay to act like complete shitheads.

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Sword5

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Edited By Sword5

@Conceited: What did Jared do? He always seemed like a dirt bag outside of his Giantbomb appearances.

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phonics

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Edited By phonics

@Aohnonono said:

@Phonics said:

Lets completely ignore the fact that the FGC is one of the biggest real life trolling fests where everyone gets blown up all the time. If you can't handle someone telling you that they are going to sniff your hair if you lose then maybe you're in the wrong place. In her audition she claimed that shes into the fighting game community but still she would crack because of Aris acting creepy? What bullshit, she knew she couldn't hack it at the game and didn't really want to be there and this is why this came out. Even Sherry called her soft.

I just feel for the amazing people that could of been on the show instead of her. Regardless of what kind of criticism this brings from various clueless journalists (Jim Sterling) or eeeeesports people, who have ZERO clue what they are talking about, fighting games will continue to bring the hype and big personalities, something other 'esports' still can't do.

Sherry's an uncle tom and she wasn't there in the room whle Miranda was being harassed by aris, she has no say in how super__yan felt or should feel. The fact that you're trying to blame the victim is utterly disgusting. You're blaming Miranda for wasting a spot, you're saying she should have known she was going to be constantly sexually harassed by Aris upon accepting an invitation to the show. Get real.

Don't worry dude I'm sure she'll hold your hand if you defend her hard enough.

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Pinworm45

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Edited By Pinworm45

@Aohnonono said:

@Phonics said:

Lets completely ignore the fact that the FGC is one of the biggest real life trolling fests where everyone gets blown up all the time. If you can't handle someone telling you that they are going to sniff your hair if you lose then maybe you're in the wrong place. In her audition she claimed that shes into the fighting game community but still she would crack because of Aris acting creepy? What bullshit, she knew she couldn't hack it at the game and didn't really want to be there and this is why this came out. Even Sherry called her soft.

I just feel for the amazing people that could of been on the show instead of her. Regardless of what kind of criticism this brings from various clueless journalists (Jim Sterling) or eeeeesports people, who have ZERO clue what they are talking about, fighting games will continue to bring the hype and big personalities, something other 'esports' still can't do.

Sherry's an uncle tom and she wasn't there in the room whle Miranda was being harassed by aris, she has no say in how super__yan felt or should feel. The fact that you're trying to blame the victim is utterly disgusting. You're blaming Miranda for wasting a spot, you're saying she should have known she was going to be constantly sexually harassed by Aris upon accepting an invitation to the show. Get real.

Someone who was "trash-talked at" - particularly with a group that's known for mutual, jest trash talk - isn't a victim. The very proposition is insulting to people who are actually victims.

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bybeach

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Edited By bybeach

I'm confused,why can't it be 'Fuck em up!' as oppossed to 'Rape that bitch'. sounds like somebody has something on their mind when they get emotional, just not the idea you are going to rip your opponent a new asshole.. Though lines do get frequently crossed, war isn't to rape, it is to kill. This is sort of the same mentality, right? Notice how much class we view people who rape in war? 
 
Just wondering.
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RedEyesBlueBunny

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Edited By RedEyesBlueBunny

it's really unfortunate what happened, but i still love Aris. he took this one a little too far though. It was a very unlucky situation for Miranda who seems like a very sweet and sensitive person, and that's not the kind of person that Aris knows how to deal with.

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bloodsoul5

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Edited By bloodsoul5

This article is bullshit. As someone who has watched FGC tournament streams for a few years now, I can safely say Aris does not represent the community. This is being blown way the fuck out of the proportion.

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whatthegeek

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@Figyg: I'm not sure I get your point - women are equal as long as they dress conservatively and are depicted as such in video games?

Or is your point that sexual harassment exists because sexy women are just too damned attractive not to get harassed?

It doesn't matter how the women in the game are depicted, it doesn't matter how the women being harassed were dressed, it doesn't matter how old the harasser is - sexual harassment is wrong. Period - end of story. There's no qualifier here - it's not OK to sexually harass someone because Cammy made you all hot and bothered. By putting qualifiers on when and how sexual harassment can be OK you're essentially validating sexual misconduct of all kinds, and that's a douchey thing to do.

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Aohnonono

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@Phonics said:

Lets completely ignore the fact that the FGC is one of the biggest real life trolling fests where everyone gets blown up all the time. If you can't handle someone telling you that they are going to sniff your hair if you lose then maybe you're in the wrong place. In her audition she claimed that shes into the fighting game community but still she would crack because of Aris acting creepy? What bullshit, she knew she couldn't hack it at the game and didn't really want to be there and this is why this came out. Even Sherry called her soft.

I just feel for the amazing people that could of been on the show instead of her. Regardless of what kind of criticism this brings from various clueless journalists (Jim Sterling) or eeeeesports people, who have ZERO clue what they are talking about, fighting games will continue to bring the hype and big personalities, something other 'esports' still can't do.

Sherry's an uncle tom and she wasn't there in the room whle Miranda was being harassed by aris, she has no say in how super__yan felt or should feel. The fact that you're trying to blame the victim is utterly disgusting. You're blaming Miranda for wasting a spot, you're saying she should have known she was going to be constantly sexually harassed by Aris upon accepting an invitation to the show. Get real.

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Mdk5631

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Edited By Mdk5631

who cares?

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CornishRocker

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Edited By CornishRocker

It's people like that who keep me from playing fighting games online. They certainly don't allow for much growth in their communities outside of people clearly stuck in an early teen mindset.

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@Pinworm45

@Deusoma said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Being horrible to everyone may be "being fair" inasmuch that it's balanced, but it is absolutely not "treating people fairly"; treating a person fairly means to treat them with respect and dignity. The fact that he is an asshole to everyone instead of just to some people doesn't negate the fact that he's still an asshole. WilliamHenry was absolutely correct.

He's doing it in jest and it's part of the culture. He's hardly the only one who does it, and it's the type of culture that he and his peers enjoy. Who are you to tell them to change?

Look, as fat creepy looking guy, Aris isn't a bad guy, just an immature one from the old school arcade scene. He expects people to reciprocate because getting people heated is fun and hype. Some people are soft, but Aris won't change the way he is because he's been around since soul calibur 1.
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Philzpilz

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Edited By Philzpilz

That was fairly despicable

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Snorlaaax

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@Aohnonono said:

@Snorlaaax said:

Clearly, you haven't watched. Or else, you would've known Aris was "harassing" everyone. Mike Ross, Kor, and Ricky Ortiz. And when someone said maybe he was going too far with Miranda, SHE shrugged it off and laughed. Dismissing it as if it wasn't anything. Also, he sniffed Mike Ross; where were you then, white knight?

Sniffing Mike Ross and harassing other people isn't cool either, you complete and utter tool. Miranda did speak up on day 2 and Capcom REPRIMANDED ARIS ABOUT IT! This is a direct quote from sp00ky this morning. He continued to be a dick and Capcom did nothing.

Kid, I know you want really bad to be that guy in this situation, but seriously, you will get nothing out of playing white knight. You never do. You're closing your eyes and refusing to look at the situation from all angles. Which is fine---just don't complain to me when people call you out for being very naive.

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Pinworm45

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@moregrammarplz said:

@Pinworm45 said:

He's done similar if not worse things to other people. None of them cared and found it funny. Why should he and his friends all change the culture they've created to satisfy ONE person out of political correctness - something he actively wants to avoid in his community?

Because the 'culture' he's created is fucking garbage and needs to be replaced with something civilized.

I think the PC culture is fucking garbage and needs to be replaced with something I prefer.

Who the fuck are you to dictate what a group of people can and can not enjoy? Who the fuck are you to be this moral arbiter? How about you exercise your rights to ignore that which you don't like, and partake in that which you do? I'm not going out of my way to force you and your group of friends to swear do whatever you don't like, show me the same respect (or at least that's what I'd say if I was part of their group, I'm not)

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mfpantst

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@Kratch said:

There is a difference between trash talking and making fun of people, and being sexist or racist in a hurtful way. If you have to resort to sexism or racism to trash talk, you're probably not very good at it.

This.  Also, if you want to split hairs I think the possibility exists there's a place for 'smack talk' in the vein of talking about how you're beating a player, even using sexual phrasing (like raping) and I think tons of smart people could argue that point until we're all blue in the face.  But seriously?  Talking about someone's bra size?  Talking about having two girls mudwrestle and you 'take home' the winner?  a) how is that "trash talk" even remotely? and b) I guess when this dude was in high school and he tried to feel up some girl he thought was hot nobody stepped in and put his nuts in his throat.  I'm shocked that doesn't happen when he's in a room.  I mean he's a big guy, but that just means bad fucking knees right?
 
Also
@rmanthorp said:

I'm SO mad you reported on this. YOU GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT!


Seriously, Patrick.  Great article.  Great series of articles for a while now.  Good job. (or GG!!!!!?)
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astonish

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Edited By astonish

What a douche.

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Lunar_Aura

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@Pinworm45 said:

@jasondesante said:

some homo virgin rips on girls because he is fat and hideous and half retarded. Just put him in a corner and let him have his tantrum. Girls that play fighting games are just as cool as guys that play fighting games. Trash talk in fighting games is a last resort for those who aren't comfortable playing the game.

He insults men just as much as girls.. just no one gives a shit about that. People have to white knight girls, which is sexist itself, because it's implying that women can't handle trash talk, which apparently this one couldn't. Pretty fucking ironic that you proceed to call this guy a "homo virgin" who can't get girls because he is fat, as if that is somehow any less sexist than anything he has ever said. it is in fact more sexist, because his "sexism" was merely gendered insults like "bitch".

Thank you for this.

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Pinworm45

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Edited By Pinworm45

@clientkiller said:

Patrick, I'm really glad you're highlighting this kind of harassment in video games. If the industry is to be taken seriously by the world then it means everyone involved needs to take responsibility to stop this kind of thing from being seen as "normal". Playing games online gives anonymity and the free reign to be sexist, racist and homophobic without consequence.

Do you even understand what's going on? This didn't happen "online", it wasn't even close to Anonymous, this article has nothing to do with either of those things, and nothing that happened was even close to Sexist, Racist, or Homophobic.

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leejunfan83

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Edited By leejunfan83

This article doesn't belong on Giant bomb

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phonics

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Edited By phonics

Lets completely ignore the fact that the FGC is one of the biggest real life trolling fests where everyone gets blown up all the time. If you can't handle someone telling you that they are going to sniff your hair if you lose then maybe you're in the wrong place. In her audition she claimed that shes into the fighting game community but still she would crack because of Aris acting creepy? What bullshit, she knew she couldn't hack it at the game and didn't really want to be there and this is why this came out. Even Sherry called her soft.

I just feel for the amazing people that could of been on the show instead of her. Regardless of what kind of criticism this brings from various clueless journalists (Jim Sterling) or eeeeesports people, who have ZERO clue what they are talking about, fighting games will continue to bring the hype and big personalities, something other 'esports' still can't do.

Also lets not mention that aris is known for acting creepy and doing this to everyone including sherry, mike ross and tastysteve. Stay free 'journalists'

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moregrammarplz

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@Pinworm45 said:

He's done similar if not worse things to other people. None of them cared and found it funny. Why should he and his friends all change the culture they've created to satisfy ONE person out of political correctness - something he actively wants to avoid in his community?

Because the 'culture' he's created is fucking garbage and needs to be replaced with something civilized.

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soundlug

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Edited By soundlug

@darkdragonmage99: I always love the "Free Speech" scapegoat. Let me quote Warren Ellis:

"And before the nutters start: yes, I’m sure this can be justified as your lovely American free speech and not hate speech or malicious communication, and yes, I’m sure he has a perfect right to say it and all that shit. Guess what? I have a perfect right not to like it, and a right to wish not to be associated with the nutter who spews it."

http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=11532

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clientkiller

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Edited By clientkiller

Patrick, I'm really glad you're highlighting this kind of harassment in video games. If the industry is to be taken seriously by the world then it means everyone involved needs to take responsibility to stop this kind of thing from being seen as "normal". Playing games online gives anonymity and the free reign to be sexist, racist and homophobic without consequence.

I would say there is a wider problem of MOST companies completely ignoring what is going on in their communities or not wanting to deal with these issues. Even though they shouldn't, young children are playing online and watching these e-streams and being influenced by the people they look up to.

It's not enough for Capcom to apologise, but rather they should openly ban all those involved on team Tekken from being involved in all future Capcom run tournaments.

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Aohnonono

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Edited By Aohnonono

@Snorlaaax said:

Clearly, you haven't watched. Or else, you would've known Aris was "harassing" everyone. Mike Ross, Kor, and Ricky Ortiz. And when someone said maybe he was going too far with Miranda, SHE shrugged it off and laughed. Dismissing it as if it wasn't anything. Also, he sniffed Mike Ross; where were you then, white knight?

Sniffing Mike Ross and harassing other people isn't cool either, you complete and utter tool. Miranda did speak up on day 2 and Capcom REPRIMANDED ARIS ABOUT IT! This is a direct quote from sp00ky this morning. He continued to be a dick and Capcom did nothing.

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LaserLambert

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Edited By LaserLambert

@Sooty: EVO went on while fighting games WERE dead, so that event is meaningless, but combine the declining variety of fighting with the disgusting nature of the community come to more light, I'd say it's not crazy to imagine. also it was a hyperbole, no need to treat me like an idiot child.

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GaspoweR

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Edited By GaspoweR

It's just unfortunate since Aris in reality is a pretty nice guy who has this asshole exterior. I'm not saying what he did is right but its just unfortunate that things got to a point in that show wherein it turned out the way it is right now.

Actually, there has been stuff that has been cleared up in one of the other streams last night in the thisisLIJoe stream where a lot of players did chip in the whole situation including Aris himself and Dr. Sub Zero. I don't know if anyone else on GB was able to see it.The only one that Joe wasn't able to come into contact was Miranda.

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3pwood

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Edited By 3pwood

Aris is definitely wrong about sexual harassment being inseparable from the fighting game community. It can be done and it should be done. The things he's doing and saying just serve to drag the community down rather than elevate it.

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Pinworm45

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Edited By Pinworm45

@Aohnonono said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

I don't think you actually know anything he said. This article is pretty sensationalist and everything he says is in jest - hardly "cruel" or being a "total asshole". No one else is offended by him except this one person, who couldn't handle something that IS part of their culture and scene. How do you draw the line between "ribbing someone" and "going to far" when someone having skin that's too thin is a factor? Why should he and his group change their attitudes to accommodate one person who can't handle it? Why should he change who he is because one person got offended by it?

You're wrong, you clearly didn't watch the video and haven't been watching all week. I have, Aris has been a total disgusting creeper and what he's been doing is NOT simply joking, it's harassment. There's a point at the end of that day 1 video where he leans in and SMELLS HER HAIR after threatening her for losing matches

He's done similar if not worse things to other people. None of them cared and found it funny. Why should he and his friends all change the culture they've created to satisfy ONE person out of political correctness - something he actively wants to avoid in his community?

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Conceited

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Edited By Conceited

@jellotek said:

What. How come the fighting game fans I meet are all alright then?

Because this article is about one person and is thus pretty much pointless.

Also, Jared Rea is absolute scum if he really did what Haunts said he did.

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Snorlaaax

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Edited By Snorlaaax

Clearly, you haven't watched. Or else, you would've known Aris was "harassing" everyone. Mike Ross, Kor, and Ricky Ortiz. And when someone said maybe he was going too far with Miranda, SHE shrugged it off and laughed. Dismissing it as if it wasn't anything. Also, he sniffed Mike Ross; where were you then, white knight?

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supercubedude

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Edited By supercubedude

All video game communities have vile scum, let's not single out the fighting game community.

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke
@princess_zelda said:

of course he looks like that. lmao.

this is the quote of the day and the comment that matters  
 
so true lmao 
 
people want this shit to be taken seriously but then you have assholes that act like this? thrash-talking or not its still fucking stupid behavior its no different than playing halo or MW online with a bunch of children
   
like it or not there is a percentage that will see this and be like man fuck fighting games, and never play them, and thereby spreading word of mouth poison, 
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Taefarinas

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Edited By Taefarinas

My two cents: I love gaming, though fighting games aren't my thing. This sort of casual sexism is in other communities as well, and there can often be a general negative atmosphere for people who are a bit sensitive (like me). I'd still like to play with other people, but have confined myself mostly to split-screen because I don't want to play with other people who might think it's okay to insult people. It seems juvenile, and yeah, I hate it.

@Harkat said:

Stuff like "rape that bitch!" in gaming contexts is not particularly offensive to me. The group of buddies I play CoD or Battlefield with use the word "rape" interchangeably with "own", as in "I'm owning/raping these guys so hard right now!". I honestly don't believe there is anything sexist behind it. To imply that it is hateful specifically to women would in my opinion be to marginalize male rape victims.

I know that "rape" doesn't always mean the dictionary definition, but when you know people who have been raped (and spoken to you about it; statistics say 1 in 6 US women has experience either rape or attempted rape), it's still very upsetting. As more women join, the chance of someone who has actually been raped reading that increases, and I'm sure very few of the people who make such comments would mean harm. While you are right about the last statement, of course, the vast majority of rape victims are female.

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ThePhantomnaut

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Edited By ThePhantomnaut

The situation has been ridiculous and unfortunate how it turned out.
 
Aris is a bit of an ass hole but he is good guy. He tried to keep himself sane with the harassment and maybe thought it was in good faith. He might have thought the joking might have been accepting within the team including Miranda. Miranda might have reached a breaking point after multiple days which is understandable.
 
I also wanna mention the stream monsters in the chats. I got involved in the harassment along with many others but at the time, we were thinking it was all in good faith and fun and the situation would subside eventually. With the revelations up to yesterday, it's an important sign that we gotta learn what has happened and improve for the future.
 
The long party is over. We gotta go to bed and get ready for the next day.

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Pinworm45

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Edited By Pinworm45

@Deusoma said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Being horrible to everyone may be "being fair" inasmuch that it's balanced, but it is absolutely not "treating people fairly"; treating a person fairly means to treat them with respect and dignity. The fact that he is an asshole to everyone instead of just to some people doesn't negate the fact that he's still an asshole. WilliamHenry was absolutely correct.

He's doing it in jest and it's part of the culture. He's hardly the only one who does it, and it's the type of culture that he and his peers enjoy. Who are you to tell them to change?

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rmanthorp

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Edited By rmanthorp  Moderator

I'm SO mad you reported on this. YOU GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT!

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wapostyle

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Edited By wapostyle

Just because you have the right to be an asshole doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

It's a bit off topic but I think the basic concept applies.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

-Ben Parker

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Kratch

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Edited By Kratch

There is a difference between trash talking and making fun of people, and being sexist or racist in a hurtful way. If you have to resort to sexism or racism to trash talk, you're probably not very good at it.

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Edited By demell

I laughed my ass off when I read this and read through these comments. What a perfect example of what our society is turning into. Notice I don't say gaming community. That's too narrow. This is a problem with our society and culture as a whole and putting all the weight of stupidity on just the gaming community degrades all of us just as much as it gives people like this an excuse to keep acting this way.

Then again you have to wonder if you can ever fix this type of behavior within the gaming community. Games are a way for people to express themselves in an environment where they can hide behind another character. Its the modern day make believe opportunity. So if you give people like this the outlet to express themselves through a medium where it may or may not be known who the person actually is these types of comments and this continuing behavior is going to persists and only get worse as more and more people become a part of the community.

So the real question is........should tournaments and live broadcasts like this continue if they are only going to facilitate this type of behavior? Is it really necessary for us to put a video gamer on a pedestal (incidentally you can make the same argument about sports or Hollywood but that's just a hydra of a debate to have) just because we like playing video games?

Second interesting question that just popped into head.............have video games actually benefited from these types of promotions? I mean, the video game industry (like any media industry) is always trying to bring in new people. In my mind these types of live shows and tournaments don't help them in any way and are only tailored to those only in the community. If they don't help bring people in do we, as a community, really need them?

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BonOrbitz

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Edited By BonOrbitz

This shit sickens me. It doesn't surprise me, however. Especially the fucking idiots out there who are like "So what? It's just Aris" or "I've never been the politically correct type. Oh well". I love political incorrectness but this is beyond that.

People are yelling "rape that bitch". What the fuck is wrong with you?

And his analogy to basketball was utter nonsense. He compares sexual harassment and it's involvement in the fighting game scene to a basketball and it's role in the game of basketball? He may kick ass in the local fighting game tournaments, but the big picture is that he's a stupid fuck and lacks character and decency; more important and honorable traits in this world.

This is what makes me hate my beloved hobby at times. People like him and those who stand up for him or try to make excuses. This doesn't challenge thinking, rebel smartly against moral boundaries, and it certainly isn't a case for the "freedom of speech".

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spartanlolz92

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Edited By spartanlolz92

@Lagaroth said:

Why do gamers have to be assholes at all? You can be plenty competitive without resorting to insults or racist/sexist jokes.

actually any competitive scene has stuff like this take sports. it has a tremendous amount of trash talk.

its sad really it will never change just have to ignore. that why they never play the audio from matches and microphones almost never pick up what players are saying in college / professional sports. itd have more lewd language in it then all of south parks first two seasons

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Seroth

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Edited By Seroth

Would Aris forcing Kayo to marry him be considered harassment, too?

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jellotek

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Edited By jellotek

What. How come the fighting game fans I meet are all alright then?

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obscurefan

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Edited By obscurefan

As a full grown adult who loves fighting games, I'm glad this article was written, because I hate how the online community is full of racist and sexist dialogue. Sure, they can say its because they're a bunch of young kids playing it, but when I was in my teenage years I wasn't going around spouting hateful garbage, but something about not having to show your face to people and just talk into a microphone makes people think they can get away with it. We as a video game community need to start cracking down on this behavior, we need to stop celebrating it and laughing about it, and treat it the same way we would in real life.

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Sergotron

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Edited By Sergotron

Ok that video got real creepy really fast.

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Aohnonono

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Edited By Aohnonono

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

I don't think you actually know anything he said. This article is pretty sensationalist and everything he says is in jest - hardly "cruel" or being a "total asshole". No one else is offended by him except this one person, who couldn't handle something that IS part of their culture and scene. How do you draw the line between "ribbing someone" and "going to far" when someone having skin that's too thin is a factor? Why should he and his group change their attitudes to accommodate one person who can't handle it? Why should he change who he is because one person got offended by it?

You're wrong, you clearly didn't watch the video and haven't been watching all week. I have, Aris has been a total disgusting creeper and what he's been doing is NOT simply joking, it's harassment. There's a point at the end of that day 1 video where he leans in and SMELLS HER HAIR after threatening her for losing matches