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When Passions Flare, Lines Are Crossed [UPDATED]

One player's heated rhetoric about sexual harassment in the fighting community causes a furious debate, one that has Capcom apologizing.

UPDATE: Bakhtanians has issued a statement in the wake of today's coverage. Read it here.

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“This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20-years-old and the sexual harassment is part of a culture,” said competitive fighting game player Aris "Aris" Bakhtanians on a recent live stream for Capcom's Cross Assault show, “and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community.”

Capcom has since apologized for comments made during a conversation on sexual harassment in the fighting game community, which that quote was pulled from. It was a discussion focused on Bakhtanians, and took place during a recent episode of the company’s Cross Assault reality show. It’s part of a promotion for Street Fighter X Tekken.

Cross Assault started with 10 contestants divided into two teams, Team Tekken and Team Street Fighter. The final four contestants will be determined today, and the last matches begin March 3.

A reader initially pointed out the inflammatory commentary, which took place during day five.

Bakhtanians is the head of Team Tekken, and was engaged in a conversation that chiefly involved Twitch.tv community manager Jared Rea. Twitch.tv is hosting the daily streaming of the day-long Cross Assault episodes.

“The views and opinions expressed by cast members in the live internet program 'Cross Assault' do not reflect those of Capcom,” said a Capcom spokesperson in a statement issued to me last night. “As a company, Capcom believes that everyone should be treated with respect. This particular issue was brought to our attention and has been addressed. We sincerely apologize to anyone that was offended by any comments expressed during the show.”

You can listen to the conversation by fast forwarding to one hour and 45 minutes into the following video. A user on YouTube also collected a series of comments made by Bakhtanians on day one.

For example: "Miranda, I wanna know your bra size."

Tensions were immediately raised over Rea's suggestion the fighting game community, once insular and limited but now steadily growing year-over-year, was potentially alienating outsiders from becoming fans of fighting games or the competitive scene because of inappropriate sexual language. Bakhtanians took issue with Rea's criticism.

Here’s a lengthy transcript of their exchange:

Rea: You know what it is, to be honest with you? We’re getting older. Do you really want to keep hanging around with a bunch of [guys in their] early 20s who don’t know how to treat one another with respect? That’s what it is.

Bakhtanians: Alright, man. The thing is...if you don’t like the scene, how it is right now, it just seems like you’re trying to create...turn it into something that it’s not, and it’s never going to be. You know what I mean?

Rea: That’s really unfortunate [inaudible]...the way it is right now, they want to enjoy fighting games, but they’re so incredibly turned off by [the language].

Bakhtanians: This doesn’t involve me, Jared, I don’t know if you can hear me--this is Aris. This doesn’t really involve me, but if you don’t like onions, you get your sandwich without onions, man. I mean, this is the fighting game community.

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can’t. You can’t because they’re one and the same thing. This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft. There’s nothing wrong with StarCraft if you enjoy it, and there’s nothing wrong with anything about eSports, but why would you want just one flavor of ice cream, you know? There’s eSports for people who like eSports, and there’s fighting games for people who like spicy food and like to have fun. There’s no reason to turn them into the same thing, you know?

You can’t go to the NBA and say “hey, I like basketball, but I don’t want them to play with a basketball, I want them to play with a football.” It just doesn’t...it doesn’t make sense to have that attitude, you know? These things are established for years. That would be like someone from the fighting game community going over to StarCraft and trying to say “hey, StarCraft, you guys are too soft, let’s start making sexual harassment jokes to each other on StarCraft.” That’s not cool, people wouldn’t like that. StarCraft isn’t like that. People would get defensive, and that’s what you’re trying to do the fighting game community, and it’s not right. It’s ethically wrong.

I know that you’re thinking “what do you know about ethics? You say racial stuff and sexist stuff.” But those are jokes and if you were really a member of the fighting game community, you would know that. You would know that these are jokes.

Rea: So, ensuring that we alienate any and all female viewers...that’s the ethical thing to do?

Bakhtanians: Well, you know, there are layers here, if you think about this. There are layers of ethics. There are people who are racist and commit hate crimes, right? And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends. Do you think those people are one and the same? Absolutely not.

StarCraft was brought up several times during the discussion of fighting games role in the larger eSports movement, specifically in regards to what lessons the community should and should not learn from its popularity.

I reached out to Bakhtanians to discuss his comments on Cross Assault, but he didn't respond.

When I contacted Capcom, I included a transcript of the relevant conversation. The company told me the cast and crew had been informed that “any inappropriate or disrespectful comments will not be tolerated during filming.”

Upon receiving the statement from Capcom, I forwarded it in full to Bakhtanians. No response.

And there is one very important fact about this whole story: Cross Assault is not a male-only event. There are two females: Team Street Fighter’s Sherry “Sherryjenix” Nhan and Team Tekken’s Miranda “Super_Yan” Pakozdi.

During the exchange, as matches raged in the background, Pakozdi chimed in about Bakhtanians’ explanation for the pervasiveness of inappropriate sexual language within fighting game culture.

“It hurts the community,” she said.

Everyone in the stream made reference to Keystone events at the San Jose Bar & Grill in San Jose, California, a spot that’s reportedly known for its more crass comments about during play. Pakozdi acknowledged it was an issue during Keystone events, but that it never went, from her perspective, over the line.

“You don’t know where the line is,” she declared.

“My point is is where I’m from, in our arcade, our line may be different than yours,” responded Bakhtanians, “but the point is that fighting games are never gonna be the same as StarCraft, it’s never gonna be the same. You can’t turn basketball into baseball, no matter what you do.”

Rea said sexual harassment was less of an issue in the StarCraft community, a point that others, including Bakhtanians, pushed back on. He conceded. Regardless, he argued, private matches can’t be controlled, but the actions of the participants and audience members raised the real concern.

Again, here’s a snippet:

Rea: When I go to MSL or MLG and someone blows up a ghost [Starcraft], does someone go “Yeah, rape that bitch!”?

[group laughter]

Bakhtanians: But, you know, Jared, you’re right. But if there was that much money being spent on Street Fighter, it wouldn’t be happening here, either, you know. There would be more rules, there would be security here, it’s not the same thing. It’s not the same thing.

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There’s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we’re in America, man, this isn’t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

There was some light discussion after this, but it mostly trailed off.

Pakozdi, who was assigned to work with Bakhtanians as part of Team Tekken, did not simply blow things off. Like many people, she signed onto Twitter and expressed disappointment over the day’s events. She eventually deleted much of her commentary, but it was captured by the same reader who tipped me off to this in the first place.

“I hope my mom isn’t disappointed with all of this shit,” reads one tweet.

“Capcom and the stream teams know and they don’t care. I just gotta wait 2 more days,” reads another.

“I’m not leaving because by contract I have to stay here 2 more days. If it were up to me I would have left long ago," she said.

Bakhtanians is a well known in the community, explaining his Cross Assault involvement.

I reached out to Pakozdi, but she did not respond.

Day six of Cross Assault took place yesterday. Pakozdi played, but if you start watching around eight hours and 32 minutes into the stream, where she's playing as Balrog, she doesn't even attack. She just pushes forward on the stick. This continues in the next matches, where she plays as Ken using the same "strategy."

Essentially, she's given up.

Per the rules of the show, she would then have to face off against John "Dr. Sub-Zero" Rockafeller, who was already eliminated. If he beat her in three out of five matches, he would be "revived."

Instead, she forfeited. Moments after she bowed out, Rockafeller looked over and handed his prizes over to her.

“I would like to donate everything to Super_Yan for being an angel,” he said.

Bakhtanians also contributes the website Avoiding the Puddle and the site’s associated Twitter account.

“esports,” he wrote last night.

Previously, however, he did have his own personal Twitter account. What’s listed in his bio?

“Fuck you.”

Patrick Klepek on Google+
1225 Comments
Posted by Mechabolic

@Buzzkill: While I don't agree with you about everything you have been saying, I feel like this article was blown WAY out of proportion. Nothing new though, for every legitimate racism/sexist/ect case there are ten more people yelling racism/sexism/ect. See the Jennifer Hepler/Bioware debacle. I think this falls on the latter though i'm sure there are plenty of people ready to call me misogynistic just because of my opinion.

Edited by Mechabolic

@jmic75: "I could get away with greeting a friend by saying "sup sucker", if I went around saying that to every stranger I saw, that wouldn't go over very well'

That depends, how fly are you?

Posted by august

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

I think you're confused about the point of my post. I don't give a shit if you got your refund or not. Congratulations though. I guess.

I'm not confused, I'm just not phased. Your post did nothing but give me a platform to prove you wrong, and you grats me in the process so I must have dinged. Forums lvl +1 woot!

What did you prove me wrong about, exactly?

Posted by sthusby

What an idiot. I get really provoked by reading this. One would think we'd have come further in the 21st century, but hillbillies like him is holding us back.

Posted by Vague_Optimism

@Artigkar: He played the butchest drag queen I've ever seen. At least Patrick Swayze and John Leguizamo tried to soften up a bit for the role...

Posted by RetroVirus
@Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

For the record I would just like to say that the bullshit this guy has been spouting is disgusting. None of this should be tolerated, and Aris should either pull a 180 attitude-wise (maybe unlikely) or get the fuck out of the spotlight.
Posted by sthusby

@Bassman2112 said:

Patrick, thank you so much for writing this article. As a 20something who basically refuses to play online because of all the idiots on mics who think casual racism, misogyny and the like are totally fine, it's nice to finally see something about it on a public article. I have lots of female gamer friends who like to play online, but won't use a mic because the moment guys hear a girl's voice on the other end they start harassing them with brash, sexual and offensive comments. I don't think it's a matter of it being "esports versus a fun time," it's just common decency towards other people...

You sait it man. I'd like to see more articles surroundig the overall sad state of online gaming, and the lack of descency and humanity.

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

@Buzzkill said:

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: So that hypothetical hockey player doesn't love his sport >

The world is full of people who do things they don't love to pay the bills. You'll understand this later kid.

You have a fitting name.

Posted by benHaskett

As someone who didn't know that the "fighting game community" was enough of a thing to have a recognizable acronym, I'd say this is pretty cut-and-dry douchiness. I've never heard of a particular type of trash-talking to be integral to any kind of sport ("e" or otherwise), and don't see how staying away from gender-specific insults could ruin the fun. I've never heard of this guy, but it sounds like he just really wants to justify being mean, while using humor as a scapegoat. Whatevs...

Posted by Chris2KLee

@RetroVirus said:

@Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

For the record I would just like to say that the bullshit this guy has been spouting is disgusting. None of this should be tolerated, and Aris should either pull a 180 attitude-wise (maybe unlikely) or get the fuck out of the spotlight.

Agreed. Guy wants to keep it "street" or whatever, he's free to go back to the arcades and hotel rooms he seems to think the community is still entirely about. Time moves forward, and if you don't like the change in scenery, get off the bus.

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@Buzzkill said:

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: >Sportmanship only exists en fairy tales.

Well, that is like your very particular vision of reality and morality

Reality is that sportsmanship doesn't exist at all. Morality is just there to make you feel bad for winning so you can fit in with everyone else who felt bad for losing.

Sportsmanship only exists if you are good or a kid. Obviously none of these people are good at them game(besides a few Team SF players), if you have ever watched the show. Morality is there to make you feel bad for winning? That is the only purpose for morality in all of the idea's existence? Fuck no, and fuck "feeling bad for winning", unless you cheated. Then you're a fraud.

Posted by tourgen

It could be that at least this guy would rather their little scene/club whatever stays small and isn't taken seriously. Anyway whatever. Maybe that's for the best. It seems like a big deal made out of nothing. Just some random dude being abrasive and rude.

Posted by LiquidSwords

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

Posted by jmic75

@Mechabolic said:

@jmic75: "I could get away with greeting a friend by saying "sup sucker", if I went around saying that to every stranger I saw, that wouldn't go over very well'

That depends, how fly are you?

Lol, the only man fly enough to get away with that is probably George Clooney....damn he's fly.

Posted by thekingoftoilets

And here I thought I would write a wall of text expressing my thoughts of sexism and Aris, but then I realized trash talk was a part of gaming (especially in the FGC crowd) and got over it. She should have stepped up, ignored the asshole-ish remarks, and not let it get to her. She said it herself that she's had experience in the FGC, so why would stupid remarks like that get to her???

Posted by Mechabolic

Wow, after reading more of these comments I find it funny that they call Ares out for being a jerk and then proceed to call him an idiot, hillbilly, jerk, asshole, ect. Though I suppose being hypocritical is part of being a "liberal". Why can't there be a nice middle ground? Now a days it seems you are either a disgusting redneck or a bleeding heart liberal that can't do too much because you are tiptoeing around trying not to offend anyone.

Posted by l3reak

Patrick you great. I was in a really big and diverse group of nerdy friends in college and now have a bunch of female gamer friends. This kinda shit is a real problem for half of the gaming community, and it's not just the fighting game side by any stretch of the imagination. It's not a matter of whether it's acceptable or not; if it doesn't stop you lose out on a lot of awesome potential gaming partners. You decide whether rape joke are more important to you than that.

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@Chris2KLee said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

For the record I would just like to say that the bullshit this guy has been spouting is disgusting. None of this should be tolerated, and Aris should either pull a 180 attitude-wise (maybe unlikely) or get the fuck out of the spotlight.

Agreed. Guy wants to keep it "street" or whatever, he's free to go back to the arcades and hotel rooms he seems to think the community is still entirely about. Time moves forward, and if you don't like the change in scenery, get off the bus.

The community has responded to what has happened and they do not like it and the actual movers and shakers in the SF community at the very least have come out against what Aris did and how he acted. In fact Mike Ross was abused by Aris on stream too, where he yelled at him to take his clothes and came over to him and unbuttoned his dress shirt he had over his t-shirt. He also said racist things to him. They stated tonight that they want to be more proactive in doing what they have in their power in the community to be more proactive with this issue.

Posted by SatinScorpion

@princess_zelda: @princess_zelda said:

of course he looks like that. lmao.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

When did Gimli pick up an arcade stick anyways?

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@thekingoftoilets said:

And here I thought I would write a wall of text expressing my thoughts of sexism and Aris, but then I realized trash talk was a part of gaming (especially in the FGC crowd) and got over it. She should have stepped up, ignored the asshole-ish remarks, and not let it get to her. She said it herself that she's had experience in the FGC, so why would stupid remarks like that get to her???

Yeah, she has been a part of it for years, I've seen pictures of her at past EVOs. I guess the tension and pressure of this 14-hour-a-day training and then elimination with an daily changing challenge get to her.

Posted by Hailinel

@thekingoftoilets said:

And here I thought I would write a wall of text expressing my thoughts of sexism and Aris, but then I realized trash talk was a part of gaming (especially in the FGC crowd) and got over it. She should have stepped up, ignored the asshole-ish remarks, and not let it get to her. She said it herself that she's had experience in the FGC, so why would stupid remarks like that get to her???

Why should stupid remarks like that be the norm? Can you explain that in a context that makes even a modicum of sense?

Posted by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

Posted by TruthTellah

This is a real shame. I've quite enjoyed Bakhtanians' commentary during tournaments for a while now, but he is quite wrong on this.

People certainly have a right to say whatever they like, but tournaments and eSports also have the right to enforce their own standards of conduct within a tournament environment. And language like this is simply unacceptable. High-level fight gaming does not need to be held back by things like this; instead, people should perhaps start acting like adults and take responsibility for their actions. Trash talking is one thing, but harassing someone and alienating people from feeling welcome in the fight scene isn't right. And if fight gaming plans on continuing its eSports rise, standards for how people act in tournaments must be encouraged and enforced for the betterment of the sport and the fighting game community at large.

Online
Posted by Supah_Ted

Excellent article, Patrick. The peeps defending Arris obviously are upset they themselves have been exposed for the sexist, racist and homophobic filth that they are. There is never a excuse for acting like this, to anybody.

sadly, its not just in the fighting game community.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Supah_Ted said:

Excellent article, Patrick. The peeps defending Arris obviously are upset they themselves have been exposed for the sexist, racist and homophobic filth that they are. There is never a excuse for acting like this, to anybody.

sadly, its not just in the fighting game community.

The difference is that the people who play and comment on MLG events for Call of Duty are not the same people on XBL screaming racism, sexism and homophobia. Aris wouldn't be anywhere near a big-money MLG Call of Duty event.

Posted by Hailinel

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

Yes, I have, and no, it should not be the norm. What insane culture is this where it's considered normal to hurl racist/sexist insults without batting an eye and expecting no backlash in return? How is this considered something that should not change?

Edited by OneManX

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

This isn't online. This is an scene that is growing and evolving everyday. Seeing stuff like this, holds us back and makes us seems like some jackasses hanging outside of arcades, and not professionals.

Edited by Mechabolic

@Supah_Ted: Cool strawman bro

"You know who else agreed with what you said? Hitler."

@OneManX & Hailinel: : I agree, that wasn't online. If she had a problem with it then tell him. Don't clam up and then cry about it on the internet later. That makes you as douche-like as the person that upset you. When you play online then people tend to get away with because you will just call them a "troll" and dismiss their comment, no harm, no foul.

Posted by sanchez8797

There's enough aholes in the world already,let's show some more respect to the ladies

Posted by august

@Mechabolic said:

@OneManX: I agree, that wasn't online. If she had a problem with it then tell him. Don't clam up and then cry about it on the internet later. That makes you as douche-like as the person that upset you. When you play online then people tend to get away with because you will just call them a "troll" and dismiss their comment, no harm, no foul.

Blaming the victim is fun and exciting.

Posted by Mechabolic

@august: Playing the victim is just as fun too. Both sides can be called out on how they handled it. Bleh, this is turning into a political debate (IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME THEN YOU ARE AGAINST US!). Once again, thank you patrick for this.

Posted by Brackynews

@LiquidSwords: Whoa. Is that the kid from the I'm a Mac ads?

Posted by KoolAidMan

@twillfast said:

Starcraft is only really clean at major events. When watching some players stream, like PsyStarcraft or Destiny, I expect them to be a little foul-mouthed. They are speaking to their stream and their fans and have a tone that's "inclusive" to friends, but could be alienating to outsiders.

If someone who never watched starcraft sees the GSL or MLG, however, they'll be met with professionalism. If the fighting community wants to be as big as the starcraft community, they need to start there. Simple as that. Get a quality stream, cut the shitty casters and in the long run, you'll get more viewers.

Pretty much. The thing to note though is that if a Starcraft player is BM, he actually stands out as being BM. The attitudes of people like CombatEx and Deezer are seen as outside of the norm and are mostly shunned by the community as a result. CombatEx has been trying to fix his image for the last year and it has been tough for him.

Aris believes that an attitude hostile to outsiders is essential to the FGC, which is a huge difference in mentality. That said, he wants to "keep it real" even at the expense of growing the scene, so at least he's consistent.

Posted by Hailinel

@august said:

@Mechabolic said:

@OneManX: I agree, that wasn't online. If she had a problem with it then tell him. Don't clam up and then cry about it on the internet later. That makes you as douche-like as the person that upset you. When you play online then people tend to get away with because you will just call them a "troll" and dismiss their comment, no harm, no foul.

Blaming the victim is fun and exciting.

Isn't it, though?

Seriously, Mechaholic, do you have any idea what it is you're saying? That she's just as bad for either being unwilling or unable to confront the asshole to his face, when god only knows what sort of response that would elicit from him? That's exactly how bullies work; they feed off of those sorts of reactions and use them as fuel for further attacks. Aris is obviously set in his ways to a point that her telling him to stop wouldn't have accomplished anything, except perhaps make her situation even worse.

Posted by KoolAidMan

@TruthTellah said:

This is a real shame. I've quite enjoyed Bakhtanians' commentary during tournaments for a while now, but he is quite wrong on this.

People certainly have a right to say whatever they like, but tournaments and eSports also have the right to enforce their own standards of conduct within a tournament environment. And language like this is simply unacceptable. High-level fight gaming does not need to be held back by things like this; instead, people should perhaps start acting like adults and take responsibility for their actions. Trash talking is one thing, but harassing someone and alienating people from feeling welcome in the fight scene isn't right. And if fight gaming plans on continuing its eSports rise, standards for how people act in tournaments must be encouraged and enforced for the betterment of the sport and the fighting game community at large.

QFT

Posted by OneManX

@Mechabolic: Yeah she could of, but as a man, you kinda have to just know where the line is and where not to cross it.

And Aris is not a giant asshole people want to paint, let's just get that out there. At EVO last year he was SUPER respectful to KayoPolice (who is transgender) while she was on commentary with him. It's justt hat "keep it real" mentaility is gonna rub some people raw.

Edited by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: Now you are saying that he said this out of maliciousness when that is clearly not the case. If you have ever seen Ares talk that's just how he is. You seem to be making a huge mountain out a molehill. If she actually said anything to him during the stream he would of stopped, but no, she had to wait and let the internet fight her fights for her. Like I said, the chat has gotten as bad as a political debate...

sentence

Edited by chaosnovaxz

@depecheload:

That's bullshit, and your utter lack of reading comprehension disturbs me. You speak as if I support such talk in any form.

You know damn well the word "bitch" is tossed around by trash-talking morons regardless of gender, and the verb "rape" hardly applies only to women. You're trying too hard.

Posted by thebrassthief

Wow. The ignorance this guy is showing makes my head hurt, from the basketball/football metaphor to what he thinks racism is. Capcom picked this guy up to do something for them? Like, under their name? What a mistake.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@MannySavior said:

Then I have no problem spelling out what I mean for you. I mentioned earlier that most people seem to be too stuck on picking Aris's or Jared's side rather than thinking for themselves. (keep in mind that I'm not accusing you of this)

A majority are obviously going to jump on Jared's side and completely dismiss Aris's view point because in this specific case, he had a very poor showing. The problem is Jared's side seems to be to tell some of the community to censor themselves. Now never mind the fact that so many people like to take a mob mentality style of opinion in a situation like this when there's so much more to it beyond what Patrick was able to get. And I don't blame Patrick at all for this. He clearly just got a bunch of information and put it up. Taking it at face value does put Aris in the most extreme of negative lights, but I'm sure he both knows that this is the trade off for his sense of humor, and probably doesn't care. He's a guy you know will always be himself and never be fake with you, and the problem with Jared's stance is guys like him and Yipes can't be who they are with such standards. And while a lot of people might say "Good I don't like their commentary anyway!", there's just as many people out there that very much know who they are and want them around.

Aris's stuff with Kayo Police was one of the highlights of EVO last year. He might be close minded and misguided on some issues, but I don't believe he's a bad guy for that. Nor do I believe he should be put on the same level as those typical XBox live kids/frat boys that people despise so much. But if a guy like Aris can't be himself on commentary, I'd rather watch on mute. Sure, I also occasionally people like Ultradavid and James Chen attempting to educate the audience on the game too. I just think that ONLY having that makes it get real dull. That's part of the reason color commentary exists. You have the straight man calling it like he see's it while you have the educated person on the side who's also there to add some personality. Joe Rogan's commentary in the UFC is a good example of this. He obviously doesn't get to use the language he probably wants to use, but he isn't afraid to call it like he sees it and even show a little favoritism sometimes which is incredibly refreshing when it comes to commentary. That is what I think Aris can be, but when the freakin guy gets kicked out of MLG just for making a comment while he was a simple audience member, how do you think he's gonna react when people suggest that the community he likes to be a part of strives to join people like that?

So, once again, I think both Jared and Aris have their heart in the right place here, but there needs to be a compromise so they can reach a middle ground because both extreme sides of the table suck.

But that's still not "censorship". He's not asking anybody to "censor themselves", he's asking them to be friendly and not scare people away. that was my point. Telling you not to be an ass is not censorship. Now, the rest of your post isn't about what "censoring" entails, it's about whether Aris has a point or not. That was not my question. I can see that myself (he kinda doesn't).

Look, if you want to say that this is an argument about whether this group of people stays the way they are or they change to be more mainstream, yeah, I see that. I just object to the use of the word "censorship" here, because that's not what it is. Not every single thing you say is immediately a standard bearer for free speech just because somebody else didn't like the fact that you said it.

You think there's a happy medium to be found here? Fair enough, but I will not acknowledge that both sides are on equal terms here, that both are equally extreme. Jared's side isn't for the community to "censor" itself, it's for the community to play nice with others. That may change what the community is, but it's not an attack on their free speech at all. Plus, he's totally right. But still, not censorship.

Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: That's the problem though. If you make exceptions for her then you need to make exceptions for EVERYONE that might get upset at what you might say. You can see how that can become a slippery slope.

Posted by Jethuty
@Hailinel
@Jethuty
Just to clarify, Aris is a part of the tekken community, not the fighting game community. Its two seperate scenes, tekken/3d fighters and 2d fighters to be exact. If anything he represents them, not the bigger scene.
That distinction is pretty much the definition of bullshit. Tekken is a fighting game, therefore anyone competitively associated with it is part of the FGC. The community as a whole needs to wash their hands of morons like Aris regardless of the individual games or series they compete in.
Its not. You dont lump bf3/quake players witg cod players, and you dont blame the hon community for some shit a lol player did. Only thing thats bullshit is your pointed finger. The tekken community and the 2d community is two different things. Also stop blaming the community for the actions of one idiot. I dont go blaming the gb community because of your stupid comments, and neither should i.
Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

Yes, inciting the masses to be respectful and consider the effects of what they say before they say it. How dare he?

Posted by Hailinel

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Now you are saying that he said this out of maliciousness when that is clearly not the case. If you have ever seen Ares talk that's just how he is. You seem to be making a huge mountain out a molehill. If she actually said anything to him during the stream he would of stopped, but no, she had to wait and let the internet fight her fights for her. Like I said, the chat has gotten as bad as a political debate...

How would I know it would stop? Frankly, how would you know it would have stop? Either way, he should have known better than to act in such a way from the start given that it's a Capcom-sponsored event being streamed on the internet, not in some dingy corner of an arcade with a few other guys.

Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: Cool sarcasm. Though you have to admit, from a website standpoint, this article is gold. Look at dat post count! I can only imagine the hit count!

Posted by Patchouli

Never take advice about women or women's rights from a fat man with a neckbeard

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: That's the problem though. If you make exceptions for her then you need to make exceptions for EVERYONE that might get upset at what you might say. You can see how that can become a slippery slope.

Wait, what? No, you are not making "exceptions". It's not "I'll be extremely offensive and make boob and rape jokes to women except to this one who is hurt by them", it's "maybe I won't be an asshole anymore". There's no slippery slope, there's not being an asshole.

Plus, this is not censorship. Again. He's not going to jail or getting fined or hurt. He's being told off by people who listened to what he said and didn't like it. People are talking to him. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either we're both exercising free speech or we're both being censored. Why would I refrain from calling him out on being a dick when he doesn't? What's the slippery slope there? It seems to me like free speech is working as intended.

Edited by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: He would stop because if anyone has actually seen him talk before then you know he is respectful IF you actually tell him that he is pissing you off. See last year's EVO. Though everyone loves a villain so I can see why everyone wants to make him out to be this horrible misogynistic asshole.

Posted by Hailinel

@Jethuty said:

@Hailinel
@Jethuty
Just to clarify, Aris is a part of the tekken community, not the fighting game community. Its two seperate scenes, tekken/3d fighters and 2d fighters to be exact. If anything he represents them, not the bigger scene.
That distinction is pretty much the definition of bullshit. Tekken is a fighting game, therefore anyone competitively associated with it is part of the FGC. The community as a whole needs to wash their hands of morons like Aris regardless of the individual games or series they compete in.
Its not. You dont lump bf3/quake players witg cod players, and you dont blame the hon community for some shit a lol player did. Only thing thats bullshit is your pointed finger. The tekken community and the 2d community is two different things. Also stop blaming the community for the actions of one idiot. I dont go blaming the gb community because of your stupid comments, and neither should i.

They're all fighting games. From a distance, the specifics of which games are which don't matter. The FGC is comprised off all of the cliques and subcultures devoted to specific games and styles, whether it be 2D or 3D. It might look different to those down on the surface, but from up high, where people who are on the outside looking in, it's really all the same. Even more so considering that this supposed Tekken guy got in trouble for his antics at an event sponsored by Capcom devoted to the promotion of a Street Fighter-style game that just happens to feature Tekken characters.

So please, spare me the bullshit that Aris is specific to the Tekken community. He's not.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: Cool sarcasm. Though you have to admit, from a website standpoint, this article is gold. Look at dat post count! I can only imagine the hit count!

So? Should Patrick only write boring stuff so that people won't watch it?

Hell, this should be boring stuff. People should have seen this and gone "yeah, what an idiot" and moved on. Instead, we have a 1000 post thread of people defending this stuff while others attack it. That doesn't spell out "clickbait" to me, it spells out "gamers are still not aware that they're not alone in the boys' room anymore".