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When Passions Flare, Lines Are Crossed [UPDATED]

One player's heated rhetoric about sexual harassment in the fighting community causes a furious debate, one that has Capcom apologizing.

UPDATE: Bakhtanians has issued a statement in the wake of today's coverage. Read it here.

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“This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20-years-old and the sexual harassment is part of a culture,” said competitive fighting game player Aris "Aris" Bakhtanians on a recent live stream for Capcom's Cross Assault show, “and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community.”

Capcom has since apologized for comments made during a conversation on sexual harassment in the fighting game community, which that quote was pulled from. It was a discussion focused on Bakhtanians, and took place during a recent episode of the company’s Cross Assault reality show. It’s part of a promotion for Street Fighter X Tekken.

Cross Assault started with 10 contestants divided into two teams, Team Tekken and Team Street Fighter. The final four contestants will be determined today, and the last matches begin March 3.

A reader initially pointed out the inflammatory commentary, which took place during day five.

Bakhtanians is the head of Team Tekken, and was engaged in a conversation that chiefly involved Twitch.tv community manager Jared Rea. Twitch.tv is hosting the daily streaming of the day-long Cross Assault episodes.

“The views and opinions expressed by cast members in the live internet program 'Cross Assault' do not reflect those of Capcom,” said a Capcom spokesperson in a statement issued to me last night. “As a company, Capcom believes that everyone should be treated with respect. This particular issue was brought to our attention and has been addressed. We sincerely apologize to anyone that was offended by any comments expressed during the show.”

You can listen to the conversation by fast forwarding to one hour and 45 minutes into the following video. A user on YouTube also collected a series of comments made by Bakhtanians on day one.

For example: "Miranda, I wanna know your bra size."

Tensions were immediately raised over Rea's suggestion the fighting game community, once insular and limited but now steadily growing year-over-year, was potentially alienating outsiders from becoming fans of fighting games or the competitive scene because of inappropriate sexual language. Bakhtanians took issue with Rea's criticism.

Here’s a lengthy transcript of their exchange:

Rea: You know what it is, to be honest with you? We’re getting older. Do you really want to keep hanging around with a bunch of [guys in their] early 20s who don’t know how to treat one another with respect? That’s what it is.

Bakhtanians: Alright, man. The thing is...if you don’t like the scene, how it is right now, it just seems like you’re trying to create...turn it into something that it’s not, and it’s never going to be. You know what I mean?

Rea: That’s really unfortunate [inaudible]...the way it is right now, they want to enjoy fighting games, but they’re so incredibly turned off by [the language].

Bakhtanians: This doesn’t involve me, Jared, I don’t know if you can hear me--this is Aris. This doesn’t really involve me, but if you don’t like onions, you get your sandwich without onions, man. I mean, this is the fighting game community.

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can’t. You can’t because they’re one and the same thing. This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft. There’s nothing wrong with StarCraft if you enjoy it, and there’s nothing wrong with anything about eSports, but why would you want just one flavor of ice cream, you know? There’s eSports for people who like eSports, and there’s fighting games for people who like spicy food and like to have fun. There’s no reason to turn them into the same thing, you know?

You can’t go to the NBA and say “hey, I like basketball, but I don’t want them to play with a basketball, I want them to play with a football.” It just doesn’t...it doesn’t make sense to have that attitude, you know? These things are established for years. That would be like someone from the fighting game community going over to StarCraft and trying to say “hey, StarCraft, you guys are too soft, let’s start making sexual harassment jokes to each other on StarCraft.” That’s not cool, people wouldn’t like that. StarCraft isn’t like that. People would get defensive, and that’s what you’re trying to do the fighting game community, and it’s not right. It’s ethically wrong.

I know that you’re thinking “what do you know about ethics? You say racial stuff and sexist stuff.” But those are jokes and if you were really a member of the fighting game community, you would know that. You would know that these are jokes.

Rea: So, ensuring that we alienate any and all female viewers...that’s the ethical thing to do?

Bakhtanians: Well, you know, there are layers here, if you think about this. There are layers of ethics. There are people who are racist and commit hate crimes, right? And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends. Do you think those people are one and the same? Absolutely not.

StarCraft was brought up several times during the discussion of fighting games role in the larger eSports movement, specifically in regards to what lessons the community should and should not learn from its popularity.

I reached out to Bakhtanians to discuss his comments on Cross Assault, but he didn't respond.

When I contacted Capcom, I included a transcript of the relevant conversation. The company told me the cast and crew had been informed that “any inappropriate or disrespectful comments will not be tolerated during filming.”

Upon receiving the statement from Capcom, I forwarded it in full to Bakhtanians. No response.

And there is one very important fact about this whole story: Cross Assault is not a male-only event. There are two females: Team Street Fighter’s Sherry “Sherryjenix” Nhan and Team Tekken’s Miranda “Super_Yan” Pakozdi.

During the exchange, as matches raged in the background, Pakozdi chimed in about Bakhtanians’ explanation for the pervasiveness of inappropriate sexual language within fighting game culture.

“It hurts the community,” she said.

Everyone in the stream made reference to Keystone events at the San Jose Bar & Grill in San Jose, California, a spot that’s reportedly known for its more crass comments about during play. Pakozdi acknowledged it was an issue during Keystone events, but that it never went, from her perspective, over the line.

“You don’t know where the line is,” she declared.

“My point is is where I’m from, in our arcade, our line may be different than yours,” responded Bakhtanians, “but the point is that fighting games are never gonna be the same as StarCraft, it’s never gonna be the same. You can’t turn basketball into baseball, no matter what you do.”

Rea said sexual harassment was less of an issue in the StarCraft community, a point that others, including Bakhtanians, pushed back on. He conceded. Regardless, he argued, private matches can’t be controlled, but the actions of the participants and audience members raised the real concern.

Again, here’s a snippet:

Rea: When I go to MSL or MLG and someone blows up a ghost [Starcraft], does someone go “Yeah, rape that bitch!”?

[group laughter]

Bakhtanians: But, you know, Jared, you’re right. But if there was that much money being spent on Street Fighter, it wouldn’t be happening here, either, you know. There would be more rules, there would be security here, it’s not the same thing. It’s not the same thing.

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There’s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we’re in America, man, this isn’t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

There was some light discussion after this, but it mostly trailed off.

Pakozdi, who was assigned to work with Bakhtanians as part of Team Tekken, did not simply blow things off. Like many people, she signed onto Twitter and expressed disappointment over the day’s events. She eventually deleted much of her commentary, but it was captured by the same reader who tipped me off to this in the first place.

“I hope my mom isn’t disappointed with all of this shit,” reads one tweet.

“Capcom and the stream teams know and they don’t care. I just gotta wait 2 more days,” reads another.

“I’m not leaving because by contract I have to stay here 2 more days. If it were up to me I would have left long ago," she said.

Bakhtanians is a well known in the community, explaining his Cross Assault involvement.

I reached out to Pakozdi, but she did not respond.

Day six of Cross Assault took place yesterday. Pakozdi played, but if you start watching around eight hours and 32 minutes into the stream, where she's playing as Balrog, she doesn't even attack. She just pushes forward on the stick. This continues in the next matches, where she plays as Ken using the same "strategy."

Essentially, she's given up.

Per the rules of the show, she would then have to face off against John "Dr. Sub-Zero" Rockafeller, who was already eliminated. If he beat her in three out of five matches, he would be "revived."

Instead, she forfeited. Moments after she bowed out, Rockafeller looked over and handed his prizes over to her.

“I would like to donate everything to Super_Yan for being an angel,” he said.

Bakhtanians also contributes the website Avoiding the Puddle and the site’s associated Twitter account.

“esports,” he wrote last night.

Previously, however, he did have his own personal Twitter account. What’s listed in his bio?

“Fuck you.”

Patrick Klepek on Google+
1225 Comments
Posted by YukoAsho
Edited by YukoAsho

@Still_I_Cry said:

Sexual Harassment is part of the culture? What the fuck.

I don't play fighting games but..what the fuck.

If it IS part of their culture, they can fucking HAVE it. I don't want anything to do with any of that garbage.

Posted by Duffyside

@Allison said:

@Robo said:

@Zokari: You are born one sex (usually...and he was).

If you're a male you're more than free to "be" female if you want, but you can not change that you were born with a penis, testicles, and a Y chromosome.

Saying someone can't factually refer to you as "he" anymore is fucking absurd. And frankly if genders are so unimportant anyway, why get so up in arms over calling someone by their genetic sex?

Are you fucking KIDDING ME.

We are in the midst of a debate against sexism and misogyny and now you feel privy to drag around the corpse of TRANSPHOBIA AROUND TOO?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GIANTBOMB?

Is that what happened, or did he see a comment that he disagreed with and he responded to it? I mean, if someone says the sky is red in the comments, I might respond "no, it's blue," but I'm not trying to drag around the corpse of sky-is-blue-fascism.

But you did do exactly what you're accusing him of by responding this way, didn't you? You're just mad that he has an opinion that rubs you the wrong way.

Posted by Lind_L_Taylor

Wow what an asshole!  I can't believe what I'm hearing/seeing.  He
can be sued in civil court for sexual harrassment & if Sega sponsored
it, they can be sued for millions.  I'll say it again: what a dumb asshole.
 
I'm surprised he didn't just whip out his dick & start jacking off in
front of her.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Lind_L_Taylor said:

Wow what an asshole! I can't believe what I'm hearing/seeing. He can be sued in civil court for sexual harrassment & if Sega sponsoredit, they can be sued for millions. I'll say it again: what a dumb asshole. I'm surprised he didn't just whip out his dick & start jacking off in front of her.

Sega? What would they have to do with anything? This is a Capcom game, and a Capcom-sponsored event... Unless Capcom's farmed it out to Sega in Eurasia and no one told me. o_O;

Posted by Lind_L_Taylor
@YukoAsho said:

@Lind_L_Taylor said:

Wow what an asshole! I can't believe what I'm hearing/seeing. He can be sued in civil court for sexual harrassment & if Sega sponsoredit, they can be sued for millions. I'll say it again: what a dumb asshole. I'm surprised he didn't just whip out his dick & start jacking off in front of her.

Sega? What would they have to do with anything? This is a Capcom game, and a Capcom-sponsored event... Unless Capcom's farmed it out to Sega in Eurasia and no one told me. o_O;

My bad...
Posted by YukoAsho

@Lind_L_Taylor: Shit happens. Though now you got me thinking... Street Fighter X Sonic....

Posted by RagingDaemon

@Milkman said:

@RagingDaemon: Man, you sure typed a lot there for saying pretty much nothing. Keeping with the topic at hand, I'll go to the one real point you made on the matter, which is

@RagingDaemon said:

If you sincerely believe that the fighting game community, or Aris, had the intent of intimidating women away from their community via rape threats, or threats of physical violence, then you are undoubtedly willing to ignore context to propagate your own agenda via lies, or are genuinely delusional.

What exactly is their intention then? Were they just friendly rape threats? In the end, the intent is irrelevant because the actions are disgusting and reprehensible. If you're defending Aris, you're defending sexism and bigotry. If you want to tell me that the fighting game community is not represented by Aris, sure, I hear you. But if you're trying to tell me that Aris isn't that bad, I don't want to hear it.

Of course you don't respond to the points made about you. You'd have to come from a nearly indefensible place. You got exposed, bro.

As to the rest: context and intent are everything. You are of the mind that words have inherent magic powers that negate context. This is untrue. One man's hateful "nigger!" is another's friendly "my nigga!". One woman's "you bitch!" is another's "heeeeyyy bitch!". Context, relationships, perspective. US people get up in arms if you call a woman a cunt, UK people use the word like it's a comma in their sentences. Do any of the above words have inherent evil that supersedes context? Of course not. Same way dudes trash talking during street fighter aren't actually going to rape one another, have sexual intercourse with anyone's mother, defecate on anyone, etc, etc. Yours is the same censorious attitude used by religious fundamentalists except coming from the other direction. You're not the moral authority any more than they are. Furthermore, being offended is not some special, privileged condition. It doesn't make your position any more tenable, respectable, or valid.

And this is where we come back 'round to your hypocrisy. What makes it not okay to say a "sexist" or "misogynistic" remark and yet you happily trot out a beloved stereotype about US southerners? Why is one action reprehensible and inexcusable but the other not? Because around these parts, it's an acceptable group to deride. And yet I'm sure you would spring to your own defense "Well, but I don't REALLY think southerners are stupid, inbred hicks" etc etc. The same way screaming "rape that bitch" at a video game doesn't mean the person really wants to rape the fictional character Phoenix or anyone else for that matter. In fact, it doesn't even really MEAN "rape". The same way colloquially calling something "gay" hasn't meant homosexual in a long time, and the same way "faggot" has transformed into "super annoying person". In the context of screaming "rape that bitch" at Phoenix, it means some version of "do a lot of damage to this character that many of us dislike passionately". How many other cultures call each other "my nigga"? How would you even begin to structure your outrage at a Philipino calling his Puerto Rican neighbor "my nigga"?

Why do I even have to explain this blindingly obvious stuff to you?

The intent of trash talk? For one it's to express competitive drive, aggression, deride your opponent, make a joke of them etc. It also has become a show of one-upping others via wit, vulgarity, edginess, humor, similar to playing the dozens. It exists in every sport I can think of, combat sports especially. In this situation it was a guy messing with this chick during a boring reality show that didn't really turn out how it was supposed to at all. There was no hidden malice, no sociopathic agenda, no sleeper cell plan by the patriarchy and free masons. It was a dude who is crass and weird, being his same usual crass and weird self. And if the stress of the show wasn't there, Sakura-whatever wouldn't have broken, since she made a point of saying she is familiar with and part of the community. It's why she basically did an "oops, nevermind" after this media fueled shit started hitting the fan. Guess what? She's back to playing. And if she wasn't a female, and cute, this wouldn't have been as newsworthy. As mentioned, Aris has previously undressed/smelled a dude live. No one cared. No one flew into a rabid righteous fervor.

Posted by bunnymud

I have never been so proud to be a child of the 70's as I am today. Our youth sucks on a whole.

Posted by YukoAsho

@bunnymud said:

I have never been so proud to be a child of the 70's as I am today. Our youth sucks on a whole.

The problem is that he's not a youth. He's a grown fucking man. Little kids are what the fuck ever.

Posted by Phished0ne

Im not justifying his behavior, because he was in a capcom sponsored event where they werent even allowed to swear for the most part without wearing the Norcal-style Horsehead for 15 mins. I find the way he acted reprehensible, but there is a fine line that needs to be learned by members of the FGC. There is a difference between a heavily sponsored live stream or a major tournament and a late night, off hours live stream of a money match room. If you wish to be a vulgar asshole, do it when it wont have a major effect on the community, not when there are 13,000 people watching. Part of the problem is that Miranda never said anything to Aris, she just let him be an ass. Sherry Jenix stated several times to people that Aris most likely would've stopped, if she said anything to him. Sherry and Aris are friends, She knows him pretty well. Once again, not justifying his behavior, just pointing out that there are several different factors to this whole situation.

But in the end this whole thing is Capcom's fault. They chose Aris, and the people that were the enforcement department for Cross Assault didnt do their job. Aris was making sexual comments and harassing Miranda on day one, and no one said anything about it. In the Team Street Fighter chat, people were saying "wait, Aris gets away with sexual harassment, but people on the show cant even swear?" This whole thing was a gigantic shitshow.

Posted by joeq1159

Wow thats totally disgusting. I blame the individual though. Some people are just really ignorant and that doesn't mean the entire fighting game community is like that. They should just not let him speak anymore.

Posted by Allison

@Duffyside said:

@Allison said:

@Robo said:

@Zokari: You are born one sex (usually...and he was).

If you're a male you're more than free to "be" female if you want, but you can not change that you were born with a penis, testicles, and a Y chromosome.

Saying someone can't factually refer to you as "he" anymore is fucking absurd. And frankly if genders are so unimportant anyway, why get so up in arms over calling someone by their genetic sex?

Are you fucking KIDDING ME.

We are in the midst of a debate against sexism and misogyny and now you feel privy to drag around the corpse of TRANSPHOBIA AROUND TOO?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GIANTBOMB?

Is that what happened, or did he see a comment that he disagreed with and he responded to it? I mean, if someone says the sky is red in the comments, I might respond "no, it's blue," but I'm not trying to drag around the corpse of sky-is-blue-fascism.

But you did do exactly what you're accusing him of by responding this way, didn't you? You're just mad that he has an opinion that rubs you the wrong way.

Lmao. Being transphobic isn't an opinion, it's a form of bigotry. The sky has nothing to do with one's gender and its color is a terrible analogy for that. Thanks for the wake-up laugh.

Posted by Alkaiser

@RagingDaemon said:

As mentioned, Aris has previously undressed/smelled a dude live. No one cared. No one flew into a rabid righteous fervor.

Did this happen at the event? If so, do you know what day and a general time I can click to on a video? Cause I'm honestly curious as to how this went down. All I've seen of Cross Counter is what was in the Giant Bomb article, so I have no idea what else went down there. And I have a feeling the GB staff doesn't either, since Patrick mentioned that he received a link to the video saying he should watch this and no one else on call has a vested interest in fighting games except for Jeff who made his comments on this weeks bombcast about how the community bugged him out and he kinda got out of it.

I'm genuinely interested because if it was as crazy and messed up as the other video then I'd definitely have to send Patrick a pm of 'Yo, this dude is a whackjob. Look at this shit!'

Posted by Duffyside

@Allison said:

The sky has nothing to do with one's gender

Hahaha, now who's laughing? This guy, that's who.

Posted by RagingDaemon

@Alkaiser: I'm not going to go digging through hours of livestream footage to find the specific instance to post for you. It's in their archives if you feel like getting a shovel

Posted by Jayesslee

For some reason, I don't think he's sincerely sorry.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Jayesslee said:

For some reason, I don't think he's sincerely sorry.

Of fucking COURSE he's not sorry. He's just got enormous pressure from the major streams and from Capcom and possibly Namco now. I think the only thing he's sorry about is that he got caught and will likely never be on a mic again.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Phished0ne said:

Part of the problem is that Miranda never said anything to Aris, she just let him be an ass. Sherry Jenix stated several times to people that Aris most likely would've stopped, if she said anything to him.

She did ask him to stop. A quote from her Twitter:

Miranda PakozdiSuper__Yan

xpldingdkrafone cafeatmidnight I told him dozens of times to stop and I pulled him aside one-on-one and explained it to him.

Posted by Phished0ne

@YukoAsho: My bad, totally missed that. I just know what i had heard from interviews with people that were there.

Posted by DesertDog

@RagingDaemon said:

Of course you don't respond to the points made about you. You'd have to come from a nearly indefensible place. You got exposed, bro.

As to the rest: context and intent are everything. You are of the mind that words have inherent magic powers that negate context. This is untrue. One man's hateful "nigger!" is another's friendly "my nigga!". One woman's "you bitch!" is another's "heeeeyyy bitch!". Context, relationships, perspective. US people get up in arms if you call a woman a cunt, UK people use the word like it's a comma in their sentences. Do any of the above words have inherent evil that supersedes context? Of course not. Same way dudes trash talking during street fighter aren't actually going to rape one another, have sexual intercourse with anyone's mother, defecate on anyone, etc, etc. Yours is the same censorious attitude used by religious fundamentalists except coming from the other direction. You're not the moral authority any more than they are. Furthermore, being offended is not some special, privileged condition. It doesn't make your position any more tenable, respectable, or valid.

And this is where we come back 'round to your hypocrisy. What makes it not okay to say a "sexist" or "misogynistic" remark and yet you happily trot out a beloved stereotype about US southerners? Why is one action reprehensible and inexcusable but the other not? Because around these parts, it's an acceptable group to deride. And yet I'm sure you would spring to your own defense "Well, but I don't REALLY think southerners are stupid, inbred hicks" etc etc. The same way screaming "rape that bitch" at a video game doesn't mean the person really wants to rape the fictional character Phoenix or anyone else for that matter. In fact, it doesn't even really MEAN "rape". The same way colloquially calling something "gay" hasn't meant homosexual in a long time, and the same way "faggot" has transformed into "super annoying person". In the context of screaming "rape that bitch" at Phoenix, it means some version of "do a lot of damage to this character that many of us dislike passionately". How many other cultures call each other "my nigga"? How would you even begin to structure your outrage at a Philipino calling his Puerto Rican neighbor "my nigga"?

Why do I even have to explain this blindingly obvious stuff to you?

The intent of trash talk? For one it's to express competitive drive, aggression, deride your opponent, make a joke of them etc. It also has become a show of one-upping others via wit, vulgarity, edginess, humor, similar to playing the dozens. It exists in every sport I can think of, combat sports especially. In this situation it was a guy messing with this chick during a boring reality show that didn't really turn out how it was supposed to at all. There was no hidden malice, no sociopathic agenda, no sleeper cell plan by the patriarchy and free masons. It was a dude who is crass and weird, being his same usual crass and weird self. And if the stress of the show wasn't there, Sakura-whatever wouldn't have broken, since she made a point of saying she is familiar with and part of the community. It's why she basically did an "oops, nevermind" after this media fueled shit started hitting the fan. Guess what? She's back to playing. And if she wasn't a female, and cute, this wouldn't have been as newsworthy. As mentioned, Aris has previously undressed/smelled a dude live. No one cared. No one flew into a rabid righteous fervor.

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

Edited by DesertDog

@RagingDaemon said:

It was a dude who is crass and weird, being his same usual crass and weird self. And if the stress of the show wasn't there, Sakura-whatever wouldn't have broken, since she made a point of saying she is familiar with and part of the community. It's why she basically did an "oops, nevermind" after this media fueled shit started hitting the fan. Guess what? She's back to playing. And if she wasn't a female, and cute, this wouldn't have been as newsworthy. As mentioned, Aris has previously undressed/smelled a dude live. No one cared. No one flew into a rabid righteous fervor.

I'll only respond to the last part of your post because I don't really have to argue how much of a sexist and racist piece of human waste you are as you made that pretty self evident.

What you did do was make a mistake of saying factually incorrect things such as

@RagingDaemon said:

It's why she basically did an "oops, nevermind" after this media fueled shit started hitting the fan.

No she did not. She's blaming him fully for the entire thing and has repeatedly said that he was the only reason for her dilemma and that she was crying for the entire day prior to leaving. Her quote "I was so appalled at what Aris said on the 5th night that I could not stop crying, the next day I made the decision to leave because of it." http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g7543k

@RagingDaemon said:

And if she wasn't a female, and cute, this wouldn't have been as newsworthy. As mentioned, Aris has previously undressed/smelled a dude live. No one cared. No one flew into a rabid righteous fervor.

No that's only your opinion. Aris's actions were unacceptable in all contexts at all times towards all people. Male or female. I would have cared! So, yeah, keep on telling yourself that to make yourself feel better. People do care when it happens to guys too. I care when it happens to my nephew when he comes over to play. I care about it when it happens to many of my male friends on Xbox Live. You are incorrect in assuming most people don't care. YOU DON'T CARE.

I have protected male, female, gay, straight, and anybody else that didn't appreciate comments like those. I do say things when the same comments are given to my gay British friend on Xbox Live. You're projecting your own thoughts into this. You're the worst there is. You fill yourself with the idea that nobody would care if this was a male because you don't care. You're the problem.

Nobody thinks that way only you. People weren't up in arms about it sooner because it wasn't exposed sooner.

If you knew about this behavior by Aris or any others in the FGC sooner then you could have written a freelance article and told the rest of the gaming community about it... But you didn't everyone else did.

As it stands you're a big part of the problem for defending it. And you're an even bigger part of the problem if you knew about it before this blew up two days ago and didn't tell anybody.

Posted by Keeng

I actually agree with a lot of DesertDog's points, but my overall issue with Aris, his comments, and this entire situation doesn't really have anything to do with the implications of yelling "rape that bitch". The problem for me is with the fact that online video game players (and by extention, most young men) just can't seem to find a way to express dislike, displeasure, or happiness in a way that isn't crass. Obviously, MvC players aren't saying they want to see the player rape Phoenix, but that's beside the point. Is it really impossible to express your feelings about that character or game without going to extremes?

I get that it's a heat of the moment thing and it's acceptable in the community. I'm a black man who grew up in Detroit. I listen to rap music (certainly not exclusively but very frequently). I enjoy black comedians. I'm subjected to the word "nigga" all the time. I have made a conscious decision not to use it, and I NEVER struggle to express comradery or friendship using other words. In fact the only time it's ever difficult is when I'm quoting a song or a good joke. As a side note, I also play several fighting games competitively.

My point is this: I don't buy the argument that it's fine to say something just because it's a common occurrence within a community. If your position boils down to "Well everyone else I'm around fails to come up with better ways of expressing their opinions so I too will fail," you need to man up.

Posted by Homelessbird

@Keeng: Well said.

Posted by Distrato

Where the video games at?

Posted by psylah

From what I've been seeing making the rounds, Aris is heavily at fault for this. His behavior was reprehensible. His dismissal of his behavior by saying "that's the way it is" and it's integral to the fighting game community was effectively him throwing the blame off of him. The responses I've seen to Jared's role in the situation shows the FGC blaming him for throwing open the doors to shed light on the immaturity of their actions, and even resorting to even more childish name-calling. They dig their hole even deeper.
 
The issue here was not that Jared brought it to light, but the fact that the FGC did not take the insulting and alienating of outsiders seriously. The WNF debacle proved that, and they paid the price.
 
It's a literal shame that a Community Manager, who ideally wants anyone and everyone to enjoy the fun and excitement of fighting games, is being lambasted for his efforts.
 
The FGC does not belong to YOU. It belongs to all of us.

Posted by Gordo789

"In short: my coach was a jerk, he doesn't represent the entire community. I'm not ever leaving. See you at NCR"

I think Miranda said it best herself.

Posted by psylah
@Gordo789 said:

"In short: my coach was a jerk, he doesn't represent the entire community. I'm not ever leaving. See you at NCR"

I think Miranda said it best herself.

I agree, If he hadn't foisted all the blame on the community, they wouldn't be put in such a precarious situation. Next time, he should just man up and admit he was wrong.
Posted by ScoutGhst

"Good job, Kor... Hopefully, she's crying in the restroom".... Aris's last words on the video above. If there was any doubt of Aris's intentions as he was "coaching" SuperYan, that should clear it up. Steve, Bronson, and 200Yen were allowed to practice in (relative) peace during the time that Aris's attentions were focused on SuperYan, but she was distracted and pestered the entire time she should have been working on her game skills. Kor was less fortunate due to his proximity to SuperYan... but apparently he managed to do a good job anyway. Aris used his position of authority as leverage against her while she was under contract and could not talk back, fight back, or leave.

Sherry "Cherry" with an "S" Jennings was not there in the room with Aris and didn't see or hear what the rest of the world saw since she was cloistered in the Team Street Fighter room with a *real coach*. I would not lend her credibility on this subject.

And.... Please remember that it was Aris who brought the entire FGC into this harassment issue, in a feeble attempt to defend himself. SuperYan never, *ever* mentioned the FGC community at large.... the community she's embraced for years and had become accustomed to and loved... warts and all.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Phished0ne said:

@YukoAsho: My bad, totally missed that. I just know what i had heard from interviews with people that were there.

Happens. There's a lot of fucking voices screaming really loud in regards to this topic, so it's easy to miss things.

Posted by RagingDaemon

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

Posted by RagingDaemon

@DesertDog said:

I'll only respond to the last part of your post because I don't really have to argue how much of a sexist and racist piece of human waste you are as you made that pretty self evident.

What you did do was make a mistake of saying factually incorrect things such as

@RagingDaemon said:

It's why she basically did an "oops, nevermind" after this media fueled shit started hitting the fan.

No she did not. She's blaming him fully for the entire thing and has repeatedly said that he was the only reason for her dilemma and that she was crying for the entire day prior to leaving. Her quote "I was so appalled at what Aris said on the 5th night that I could not stop crying, the next day I made the decision to leave because of it." http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g7543k

@RagingDaemon said:

And if she wasn't a female, and cute, this wouldn't have been as newsworthy. As mentioned, Aris has previously undressed/smelled a dude live. No one cared. No one flew into a rabid righteous fervor.

No that's only your opinion. Aris's actions were unacceptable in all contexts at all times towards all people. Male or female. I would have cared! So, yeah, keep on telling yourself that to make yourself feel better. People do care when it happens to guys too. I care when it happens to my nephew when he comes over to play. I care about it when it happens to many of my male friends on Xbox Live. You are incorrect in assuming most people don't care. YOU DON'T CARE.

I have protected male, female, gay, straight, and anybody else that didn't appreciate comments like those. I do say things when the same comments are given to my gay British friend on Xbox Live. You're projecting your own thoughts into this. You're the worst there is. You fill yourself with the idea that nobody would care if this was a male because you don't care. You're the problem.

Nobody thinks that way only you. People weren't up in arms about it sooner because it wasn't exposed sooner.

If you knew about this behavior by Aris or any others in the FGC sooner then you could have written a freelance article and told the rest of the gaming community about it... But you didn't everyone else did.

As it stands you're a big part of the problem for defending it. And you're an even bigger part of the problem if you knew about it before this blew up two days ago and didn't tell anybody.

From my basic explanation of how context and language works in the real world, you got racism? Interesting logical leaps.

As for the rest, at least you're somewhat consistent with your views. Unlike the other hypocrite who was tossing around one stereotype while condemning another.

Most people don't care. Tell ten strangers on the street that a man insulted a woman on a shitty video game reality tv show. The ones who stick around to even listen to the end of your story will be like "whatever". A large portion of the ones getting beyond outraged, here, at kotaku, etc, are doing it for social points, to fit in and be seen as enlightened and aware modern humans. And/or white knighting. Have you looked at the reactions of some of these people? Labeling Aris a sociopath, a potential rapist, advocating blameless physical violence against him? It's turning an anthill into mount Everest.

I wouldn't have exposed it because there's nothing to expose. There is no "problem". It's a culture that can get rowdy, and/or crass. If you can't handle it, don't participate. Kind of like rap music or horror movies or porn. If you can't deal, don't consume. Your kind would rather censor and control people though. You think your moral and ethical judgement against me mean anything? I can't be guilted, shamed, or manipulated to capitulate to the demands of people like you.

There is real psychological bullying, physical bullying, and then there are weak people who have been taught by this society to be victims because wannabe heroes like you will rush to defend them on xbox live or the internet. When there's an incentive to be offended, people will be offended.

You're not making a difference by playing internet cop, you don't deserve any sort of commendation. You would do more by donating one day at a homeless shelter than defending a billion cry baby girls online. And if you already do, spend more time doing that than playing xbox live police.

Posted by Hailinel

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Online
Posted by RagingDaemon

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Posted by Hailinel

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Sure you can't, but you can very easily make yourself look foolish to those that know better.

Online
Posted by RagingDaemon

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Sure you can't, but you can very easily make yourself look foolish to those that know better.

I could care less about looking foolish to your side. Same way I don't care about looking like a heathen to religious fundamentalists, or any number of other examples. The fact that there have been something like 6+ responses to me with no substance other than implying clear nonsense such as a lack of intelligence or perception on my part just reinforces the reactionary and dogmatic place you're coming from. The huge difference when I reply to this? I say true things about you guys, your methods, and your ideologies. You can't step outside of self righteous hyper offended mode. I have no problem agreeing Aris is a crass and insensitive person. All the insanity that follows, with labeling him a sociopath rapist deserving of beatings and the FGC a patriarchal anti woman racist conspiracy factory... need I elaborate?

Posted by Hailinel

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Sure you can't, but you can very easily make yourself look foolish to those that know better.

I could care less about looking foolish to your side. Same way I don't care about looking like a heathen to religious fundamentalists, or any number of other examples. The fact that there have been something like 6+ responses to me with no substance other than implying clear nonsense such as a lack of intelligence or perception on my part just reinforces the reactionary and dogmatic place you're coming from. The huge difference when I reply to this? I say true things about you guys, your methods, and your ideologies. You can't step outside of self righteous hyper offended mode. I have no problem agreeing Aris is a crass and insensitive person. All the insanity that follows, with labeling him a sociopath rapist deserving of beatings and the FGC a patriarchal anti woman racist conspiracy factory... need I elaborate?

It's very obvious that you don't care, but that attitude won't win you any points in a debate where the attitude of the FGC "not caring" is what's led to a lot of the shit that's happened over the past week.

Online
Posted by RagingDaemon

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Sure you can't, but you can very easily make yourself look foolish to those that know better.

I could care less about looking foolish to your side. Same way I don't care about looking like a heathen to religious fundamentalists, or any number of other examples. The fact that there have been something like 6+ responses to me with no substance other than implying clear nonsense such as a lack of intelligence or perception on my part just reinforces the reactionary and dogmatic place you're coming from. The huge difference when I reply to this? I say true things about you guys, your methods, and your ideologies. You can't step outside of self righteous hyper offended mode. I have no problem agreeing Aris is a crass and insensitive person. All the insanity that follows, with labeling him a sociopath rapist deserving of beatings and the FGC a patriarchal anti woman racist conspiracy factory... need I elaborate?

It's very obvious that you don't care, but that attitude won't win you any points in a debate where the attitude of the FGC "not caring" is what's led to a lot of the shit that's happened over the past week.

Attitude shouldn't win me points. Salient points should win me them. Such as sussing out the extremely hostile, sometimes violent over-reactions. Reminding people of the context in which the whole scenario played out. And trying to show that a lot of the harder arguing and more vocal commenters here are basically making the same case that censor of rap, horror movies, porn, and going further back, books, etc have been making. But instead of focusing on that, the focus is somehow more on my crass aside or my attitude. Neither I, nor anyone else has said Aris is a loveable, kind, respectable, role model. We said yeah, he's crass, juvenile, a jerk, whatever. But it's not enough to look at the situation and go "hm, looks like a multifactorial and complex problem wherein stress, stream viewing pressure, miscommunication, etc all combined into...." it's easier to jump on the offended self righteous internet warrior bandwagon. And this shitstorm ensues.

Posted by Hailinel

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Sure you can't, but you can very easily make yourself look foolish to those that know better.

I could care less about looking foolish to your side. Same way I don't care about looking like a heathen to religious fundamentalists, or any number of other examples. The fact that there have been something like 6+ responses to me with no substance other than implying clear nonsense such as a lack of intelligence or perception on my part just reinforces the reactionary and dogmatic place you're coming from. The huge difference when I reply to this? I say true things about you guys, your methods, and your ideologies. You can't step outside of self righteous hyper offended mode. I have no problem agreeing Aris is a crass and insensitive person. All the insanity that follows, with labeling him a sociopath rapist deserving of beatings and the FGC a patriarchal anti woman racist conspiracy factory... need I elaborate?

It's very obvious that you don't care, but that attitude won't win you any points in a debate where the attitude of the FGC "not caring" is what's led to a lot of the shit that's happened over the past week.

Attitude shouldn't win me points. Salient points should win me them. Such as sussing out the extremely hostile, sometimes violent over-reactions. Reminding people of the context in which the whole scenario played out. And trying to show that a lot of the harder arguing and more vocal commenters here are basically making the same case that censor of rap, horror movies, porn, and going further back, books, etc have been making. But instead of focusing on that, the focus is somehow more on my crass aside or my attitude. Neither I, nor anyone else has said Aris is a loveable, kind, respectable, role model. We said yeah, he's crass, juvenile, a jerk, whatever. But it's not enough to look at the situation and go "hm, looks like a multifactorial and complex problem wherein stress, stream viewing pressure, miscommunication, etc all combined into...." it's easier to jump on the offended self righteous internet warrior bandwagon. And this shitstorm ensues.

The scenario in which it played out has nothing to do with it. Aris's behavior as demonstrated on Cross Assault would be considered inexcusable in any public context. And there's a difference between censorship and decorum.

Online
Edited by GaspoweR

@ScoutGhst said:

"Good job, Kor... Hopefully, she's crying in the restroom".... Aris's last words on the video above. If there was any doubt of Aris's intentions as he was "coaching" SuperYan, that should clear it up. Steve, Bronson, and 200Yen were allowed to practice in (relative) peace during the time that Aris's attentions were focused on SuperYan, but she was distracted and pestered the entire time she should have been working on her game skills. Kor was less fortunate due to his proximity to SuperYan... but apparently he managed to do a good job anyway. Aris used his position of authority as leverage against her while she was under contract and could not talk back, fight back, or leave.

Sherry "Cherry" with an "S" Jennings was not there in the room with Aris and didn't see or hear what the rest of the world saw since she was cloistered in the Team Street Fighter room with a *real coach*. I would not lend her credibility on this subject.

And.... Please remember that it was Aris who brought the entire FGC into this harassment issue, in a feeble attempt to defend himself. SuperYan never, *ever* mentioned the FGC community at large.... the community she's embraced for years and had become accustomed to and loved... warts and all.

It's Jenix good sir, not Jennings. Try to get the name's right while trying to prove your point to avoid confusion with others who'll read your post and don't often watch FGC streams. I reckon you didn't watch the streams often as well since you got the name wrong but that's fine it's an honest mistake. :)

It's better that we no longer dwell on the subject since it's been beaten to death already on so many forums. Everyone has made their statements. All we can do now as a community is to learn from it and improve ourselves for the sake of the community.

Posted by RagingDaemon

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon said:

@DesertDog said:

Swing-n-a-miss! Wow, you could not be a bigger part of the problem unless you were Aris himself. Thanks for contributing.

You didn't address any of my points with that comment. You just wrote some vaginal discharge in text form.

The fact that you're willing to use crass terms like "vaginal discharge" in the discussion of this topic only serves to prove how utterly clueless you are.

Incorrect. I know exactly what I'm doing. Like I said to the internet/xbox live cop: I can't be coerced, manipulated, or guilted into speaking how you want me to speak. The best you can hope for is that you can get the mods to revoke my posting privileges on some technicality for a while. Which you should be hard pressed to do, considering the level of personal attacks and general swearing done by your side of this argument throughout both threads.

Sure you can't, but you can very easily make yourself look foolish to those that know better.

I could care less about looking foolish to your side. Same way I don't care about looking like a heathen to religious fundamentalists, or any number of other examples. The fact that there have been something like 6+ responses to me with no substance other than implying clear nonsense such as a lack of intelligence or perception on my part just reinforces the reactionary and dogmatic place you're coming from. The huge difference when I reply to this? I say true things about you guys, your methods, and your ideologies. You can't step outside of self righteous hyper offended mode. I have no problem agreeing Aris is a crass and insensitive person. All the insanity that follows, with labeling him a sociopath rapist deserving of beatings and the FGC a patriarchal anti woman racist conspiracy factory... need I elaborate?

It's very obvious that you don't care, but that attitude won't win you any points in a debate where the attitude of the FGC "not caring" is what's led to a lot of the shit that's happened over the past week.

Attitude shouldn't win me points. Salient points should win me them. Such as sussing out the extremely hostile, sometimes violent over-reactions. Reminding people of the context in which the whole scenario played out. And trying to show that a lot of the harder arguing and more vocal commenters here are basically making the same case that censor of rap, horror movies, porn, and going further back, books, etc have been making. But instead of focusing on that, the focus is somehow more on my crass aside or my attitude. Neither I, nor anyone else has said Aris is a loveable, kind, respectable, role model. We said yeah, he's crass, juvenile, a jerk, whatever. But it's not enough to look at the situation and go "hm, looks like a multifactorial and complex problem wherein stress, stream viewing pressure, miscommunication, etc all combined into...." it's easier to jump on the offended self righteous internet warrior bandwagon. And this shitstorm ensues.

The scenario in which it played out has nothing to do with it. Aris's behavior as demonstrated on Cross Assault would be considered inexcusable in any public context. And there's a difference between censorship and decorum.

The scenario has a ton to do with it. He asked/said/filmed over half the shit he did because he was playing to the people watching on stream and requesting things in the stream chat. Her seeming to play along complicates things. In the second video she walks up to the camera and shows/talks about her nails, laughs. Other people are joking/laughing. Random other dude doesn't show his feet and puts on horsehead. All of those factors interplay. It's not a video of him having her cornered alone while she cries with nothing else going on. A lot of her responses are the shit girls say to dudes who are being unwantedly flirty. "I have a boyfriend so I don't care, I'll wear sweat pants the whole rest of the show" in response to some comment about her jeans or whatever. Based on just the video, at that time, he was being a crass and pervy guy feeding off of the room, his audience, and the fact that sakura engaged with him. The bulk of the accusations came about due to a lot of behind the scenes, after the fact twitter stuff and a whole lot of internet pressure. What came later influenced how most of you saw that video in an even greater direction than it would have just by itself.

The FGC has been gritty and raw since forever. Decorum there isn't held in high regard. They have been that way "in public context" since inception. They and their streams are not forced on anyone. People choose to participate willingly, without being deceived about it or its nature. It's no different from seeing an insult comic who gets specials aired on national/international tv. There are consequences to actions but those consequences should come from the relationships with sponsors and the core community, not the weight of trumped up and drama filled news stories crashing down.

Posted by Hailinel

@RagingDaemon: As I said before, context doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he did it for the stream; his behavior was uncouth, abusive, sexist, and demeaning. The fact that you're still defending this in any capacity is ludicrous. It doesn't matter how gritty and raw the FGC is; if the community's social standards are really so out of whack with the rest of society, something obviously needs to change, or the scene will be forever dominated by idiot teenagers and socially inept manchildren.

Online
Edited by Claude
@Hailinel: This guy is full of crap Hailinel. I've read a bunch of his posts and he's not even part of the FGC. Not worth your time if you ask me and should be ignored.
Posted by RagingDaemon

@Hailinel: These arguments get super cyclical. I just finished explaining how context always matters. If context doesn't matter, then there is no difference between a wild eyed homeless man lurching at you screaming "FUCK YOU" and your friend slapping you on the arm after you zing him saying "fuck you!".

This is where we get back to the censorship. The same attitude and argument has been used on music, films, books, etc. The market takes care of it. You don't want to attend a Chuck Palahniuk reading, you are not forced to. You don't want to listen to deep south chopped and screwed remixes of "big booty bitches", you don't have to. Especially gory movie coming out? No gun to your head to see it. Your stance of condemning their community from the outside looking in is your prerogative, your insistence they change to suite your personal moral/ethics tastes when they are not forcing themselves on anyone is censorship. They did not recruit this girl, they did not lie to her. Miscommunications happen. Jerks exist. Life is harsh. If their community/product is trash, and more and more people think like you and stop watching, attending events, etc, they will fail without trying to have the media cause such a shitstorm that SRK pulls sponsorships and seed points. So your side has already drawn blood if you didn't know.

Posted by Hailinel

@RagingDaemon: Yeah, whatever. has a point. You're absurd and not worth the energy that's required to continue this debate. End of discussion.

Online
Posted by darkdragonmage99
@RagingDaemon: lol I'd take that as a win when they resort to the childish put my fingers in my ears I don't hear you method of dealing with a point you know they simply don't wanna admit they are wrong. 
Posted by RagingDaemon

@Hailinel said:

@RagingDaemon: Yeah, whatever. has a point. You're absurd and not worth the energy that's required to continue this debate. End of discussion.

Seems your rigid thinking has reached its limits. Go back for fun and read the things you wrote, which were absolutist statements based on a moral/ethical dogma. Then look at the examples, analogies, metaphors, etc used by me. Every step of reasoning shown so that it could be followed to logical conclusions, sometimes even backed by real world examples, even history!

I accept your admission of defeat.

Next?

Posted by RagingDaemon

@darkdragonmage99 said:

@RagingDaemon: lol I'd take that as a win when they resort to the childish put my fingers in my ears I don't hear you method of dealing with a point you know they simply don't wanna admit they are wrong.

Right on brother :D

Posted by wefwefasdf

@RagingDaemon: Perhaps you can clarify something for me, up above, you essentially say that the community should be self-regulating and not be censored, right? What exactly are you saying is censorship? Isn't a company clamping down on content it doesn't approve of just the company regulating itself based on the reaction from the community? Where is this censorship?

Edited by King9999

A lot of you have no clue what the community is really like to be making these accusations. For example, did you know that the community helped out one of their own when he lost his life savings to a fire? If you were part of the community, you would know that. Sites like Giant Bomb sure as hell aren't going to report it.

All I'm saying is, don't write off an entire community because of the actions of one man. You have no right to be saying anything if you don't know the scene. And Jared Rea isn't exactly on the level.