Worth Reading: 02/14/2014

@patrickklepek: No offense but isn't that your job to try to contextualize his twitter feeds if your trying to shed light on a certain subject matter? Just so that you feel he is not being misrepresented?

Speaking for myself, I don't want to spend all day reading someones twitter account.

Not trying to be confrontational but it seems to be kinda dismissive thing to say. I mean we have zero context. I don't even know who Adam Saltsman is.

Wasn't there a company (not necessarily video games) that did a similar extreme affirmative action stunt for publicity and then had to backpedal because they didn't get enough qualified applicants? I can't just be making that up.

Why don't you think it would work with a female main character? I know I myself have been magnetically attracted to dudes and maybe gave 'em too much leeway just because they're boneable. Women are interested in sex too.

It would be useful to click on his Twitter feed and read everything he's said on it in the last few days. That's not true. I just plucked one part of his argument. He was responding to people getting upset because Adam Saltsman set that criteria for the job.

@dannyhibiki:

I'm not trying to say they aren't interesting or complicated. Maybe that did come off a little harsh. I'm just trying to say that I feel the male perspective is a major part of noir and that the female characters tend to take the form of what self reflecting men find interesting: sexiness, purity and/or intellectual stimulation.

Take Double Indemnity for example. We have Phyllis, the sexy black window, our femme fatale, a viper in disguise. When she has her entrance, the frame just shows a sexy pair of bare legs with an gold anklet. We see her through the main character's gaze. Then the frame pulls out and we see the woman. The quick and witty banter that follows shows her as smart, cunning and interesting. But she was still introduced as a pair of legs. And our main character's dialogue keeps referencing those legs "I couldn't get her out of my mind, and the way that anklet of hers cut into her leg" The temptation is a big part of the story. And I just don't think that story could work with a female main character. Is our heroine going to be super temped by some dude's mad biceps? And if the woman isn't super sexy, she is super innocent and our hero wants to protect her (or both). In my experience, these patterns repeat a lot. That's why I say it's a super male genre.

People are pissed about Dungeon Keeper because it takes 24 hours to dig a single tile. That's not Dungeon Keeper. It's also not fun. At all. The 500 real dollars you could spend to make things go faster is icing on the turd.

Yep, just removed it. Thanks!

Rami thinks he's going to get a lot of internet babes with those tweets.

If you consider Batman noir, would the Batgirl and Batwoman comics count as "female noir protagonists"? And if not, I can totally see a noir take on both Barbara and Kate.

Wasn't there also a Kickstarter for a side-scrolling noir featuring a woman and her talking cat? Did that end up getting funded? It looked great.

What? Where are your examples coming from is more my question. Everything I've seen in noir (the Mike Hammer series, Sam Spade, screenplays by Robert Towne, the comics of Yoshihiro Tatsumi, etc) has complicated women characters that are interesting. If you want a quick example, just watch Kiss Me Deadly. I don't want to ruin the story, but it definitely doesn't have any lady characters I'd be able to describe as generic feminine character types.

You do usually only see the women of these stories through the main male character's eyes, yeah. That's a part of noir I think, but by the end, they aren't just some skirt.

Didn't mean to be a jerk, though.

You guys like tokenism? I like to one of everything in my contacts so I can say "I have a (insert minority here) friend!" Glad that developer is following my lead.

Pretty much this. Rami actually misses the point and focuses just on the fact of hiring a woman.

@dannyhibiki:

Thank you for your very condescending response to what I thought was a pretty lighthearted jab at my own lack of qualifications. It was very appropriate.

But I still think that noir is extremely male dominated. The Big Sleep contains many great examples of not having your movie be a total sausage fest. I'm sure there are many more good examples. But I've found those are greatly outnumbered by female characters that lack any character beyond their looks, innocence, spunk or any combination of the three. I find these characters to be shallow reflections of their male counterparts, projections of a female ideal birthed from a male point of view.

I don't think it's a necessarily bad thing. Just the kinda way those stories are. I've found they focus on the main (male) character, everything is about him in the end. All the other characters serve all as reflections.

If you have good examples of this not being the case, I'd love to hear them.

@video_game_king: I would agree with that, and I think taking action with the end goal of a more diversified environment is laudable. However, I don't think screening applicants for gender is the way. The situation we want is one where the field is naturally diversified. I also think gender discrimination in hiring is an evil. However, if you could convince me that it is a necessary evil - that, as a temporary measure, it somehow advances us to the goal of natural diversification- I might listen. There's precedent, after all- hiring based on race is wrong, but in some cases affirmative action was very necessary to combat deeply held racial prejudice and get people used to seeing a diversified environment as normal. I'm not convinced this is a similar situation- I don't see the A to B to C on "a deliberate sort of discriminatory hiring" now and "a more naturally diversified work environment" later.

Of course, if this is as simple as "we need a writing position filled and we have literally no women in the department" then I don't think it needs justification, that is a very specific case where it makes sense. If they're just trying to fill a programming or business position, though...not so much.

@generic_username: Yeah, but you should still stand up for what you believe in even if others misinterpret and get mad. Haters gonna hate is also a popular saying. :) Nothing's gonna change if you're afraid of making waves.

Isn't it a common saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? It's sad, but when you aren't careful, you can cause bigger problems than you're actually solving. That's all I'm trying to say here.

@roycampbell:

Apparently, I am orange. Apparently.

Not that simple. Minds are formed through experience, experience partially through how people treat you, and how people treat you through race, gender, and a bunch of other shit. This is still pretty relevant.

Having different hobbies and interests makes life way more fulfilling. But the best thing is that you'll rarely burn out on a hobby.

It's kind of awful that we're discussing the female only applicant situation based on a third-party's tweets and no idea what he position is...

SMH at those Rami tweets. So it's come to that now?

The second sentence is acceptable, though.

Agreed. That example is REALLY tame, though, aside from the very rude third sentence.

Check it every day.

Having a female point of view in the development process can be valuable, specially if you plan to market your game to the female demographic. But I partially agree with @generic_username. He could just do a regular selection process and hire the most qualified female applicant. The fact that he thought he needed to make a statement about it by gating male applicants is what sounds aggravating.

Diversity comes from minds, not just gender. The majority of the girls I know who play games are way more stereotypically "dude bro" than I am. Shit talking FPS junkies. They just happen to have two X chromosomes.

I hesitated to even comment on those tweets because it's not even clear what position he's only considering women for, which could make a lot of difference. But hiring a woman only doesn't seem to me like giving someone a chance who "doesn't feel welcome", it seems insulting. As if the woman wouldn't have been able to get the job if she was up against men. (which, by the way, most of the thousands of women who already make games, have)

I'm sure that's not at all the dev's thinking, and that he's doing it for good reasons, but there are at least ways to get ladies in the biz without resorting to affirmative action.

When you have a job opening, just insist that names are left off people's resumes. Simple. You're looking at every candidates' reels and experience without your nasty privilege getting in the way. Not rejecting or intentionally selecting any group, just bringing on the human who's the best fit. Isn't that better?

This makes me sad.

I'm not thinking that he cares personally who he's pissing off. I just think that getting out there doing something like this is a good way to turn people off who would normally agree with you. I know quite a few fence-sitting dudes who became anti-feminist because they saw "reverse sexism" or whatever. I don't think that it was right of them, nor do I really agree with the sentiment the "reverse sexism" is a thing, I just think you should be careful with the ways that you stand up for what you believe in; it's easy to do more harm than good.

There is nothing wrong with hiring a woman. I mean, my stepfather went out of his way several times to hire on women at the company he was working for, in spite of pressure from his higher-ups to do the opposite. I agree wholeheartedly with his decision. I just think people need to be smarter about voicing their opinions. Pushing too hard is a really good way to make people disagree with you. I think he's hurting the fight that I fight, even though he has good intentions.

@flindip

Okay fine. Who's to say that a case won't involve a juvenile, a parolee, or something involving public ordinances? Chinatown was about water rights for fuck sake. Still lotsa ladies that were a big deal in that one.

The point I was making was that in certain contexts and subject matters its not going to have any authenticity for 50 percent of your characters to be female.

Okay, yeah, if you're making a story about a male prison camp or something sure. The point is that women are prominent in noir and in LA Noire they ain't. I wish they were just like the author.

Maybe you should try reading some noir and watching more of their film adaptations so you actually know what noir is like before you start making it.

If you're a game developer, and you think your company needs more female developers, whether because you want actual female voices in your development process, or even if you just think that your company needs more diversity, I think those are pretty important reasons to look specifically for a female hire.

"Shit like that" isn't meant to piss people off and turn people away. It's meant to be more welcoming to a segment of the population that traditionally doesn't feel very welcome in this industry. And chances are, he's not worried about losing anyone who WOULD be pissed off by his decision to specifically hire a woman.

Women were not field detectives in 1940's LA. The 38 female cops that worked in the department were either matrons, worked in juvienelle, parol case workers, or public ordnance. They weren't even beat cops in any meaningful sense.

The point I was making was that in certain contexts and subject matters its not going to have any authenticity for 50 percent of your characters to be female.

Ya know what though? It can work both ways. If I'm doing a television show on nursing in a old folks home; the majority of the characters are probably going to be female. Just like this: getting on

I disagree that only accepting women applicants for a job is a cool thing to do, but whatever. The goal of equal rights is to actually have equal rights, not constantly wage a war against the perceived side that has it better. Shit like that only goes towards pissing people off and turning people away from your ideas.

I'm not someone that thinks that women are treated the way they should, or that they aren't discriminated against. Hell, I'm usually on the opposite side of this fight, telling people off for being sexist. I just don't think that's a good way to go about solving a problem. Not to mention the fact that it can be easily misconstrued as a means to get to hang out with a girl. I don't think that's what he's doing, but he's really opening himself up for an attack on all angles. Hiring one more girl isn't going to offset the people he's turning off of this fight, in my opinion.

On a less serious note, that Spelunky video was fucking awesome.

Why do you think having like 10% female characters (even including those in the background) is okay? Women are half the population. Sounds nonsensical and unrealistic to me to instead make 90% of a world's population be dudes.

There were female police officers in LA in the 40s. Most guys were fighting a war. Did you read the whole article? The author said "one of his partners" which means to me maybe a lady detective at a desk in the precinct, or maybe you get info on a case from a lady beat cop. That doesn't sound so crazy to me. It's the whole article's point that seeing too many ladies feels forced and silly thanks to you not ever seeing them represented in shit you see over and over every day. Maybe if girls growing up saw more ladies actually out and about doing something in the world, they wouldn't doubt their ability to be able to do those things, and others wouldn't see it as "forced" either.

But really though, just having a female that had any character at all in that game would have made it that much more noir.

Yikes, those Rami tweets are kind of disturbing. I think some people don't know the different between being privileged and being a majority in a given field of expertise. There are more men in the gaming industry than there are women. That's not a privilege, its just reality. It's a reality that leads to mainly male development teams where you may not get a female perspective. However, it would also be a mistake to assume that being male pigeon holds you to one perspective. My gender doesn't solely dictate my opinions or views of the world. It influences it, sure, but It's not the only factor.

Ultimately, I would like to see as many diverse perspectives in game development as possible. That doesn't just mean female developers, but developers of different ages, races, religions, countries of origin, economic statuses, etc. That does rely on those people being genuinely interested in making games, however. You can't force people to be passionate for something they aren't. All you can do is go out of your way to not alienate people for being different. Celebrate diversity rather than victimizing people, or shaming the so called "privileged".

I was going to post the same thing. Hope patrick unlinks it, what its become is definitely not worth sharing.

@dannyhibiki: Yeah but the article than links to that Geena Davis study group which comes off as pretty nonsensical to me. Just make half of your characters female irregardless of context. That may sound great for those with an agenda but if a writer is trying to have a realistic take on a subject matter that would seem a ludicrous approach. If someone is doing a realistic show on lets say firefighting: there is a very good chance there may not be a single female in that department(or only one).

So do we lose any potential authenticity for the sake for some social objective? I've seen the Geena Davis approach on a couple of network crime shows. It comes off as incredibly forced and silly. I think the objective should be about writing quality female characters and not a numbers game.

The article, in general, has some very faulty logic. Cole should have had a female partner in the 1940's?

@joshylee: People are into gender equality now. No one cares about black people.

Well, if you check out the article, the headline actually says that it's specifically talking about noir in videogames. But yeah, the link in Patrick's article could have been more clear I guess.

" Cara Ellison examines the noir genre and its surprising lack of women."

From my extensive expertise on the subject (one film class in college), I can say there is nothing surprising about the lack of women. Film noir is pretty much as male of a genre as you can have. I've wondered if its even possible to make noir with a female lead. I'd love to try. (I am aware Veronica Mars exists.)

@dannyhibiki:

I kinda wish that was the lead rather than the noir genre (which I'm assuming is context).

Uh, yeah. That article is about how there is not really an important female character that arcs through the whole story of LA Noire. I gotta agree. I love reading a bunch of Mickey Spillane and even though its depictions of society are dated, there are plenty of prominent female characters that are integral to the plot and are real humans with personality. That is something lacking in LA Noire.

Pat's blurb for the article is kinda misleading though. The author doesn't have a problem with the noir genre. She likes the ladies that exist in it. She's asking why there aren't any in LA Noire and it seems, in most media today.

I think video game developers should only hire black people.

@patrickklepek I clicked through to that Steam Tags tumblr that you mentioned, and... you might want to look it over and maybe think about unlinking it. Judging by the posts made over the last day or two, it looks like some guy has taken over the page and is... not really very cool?

"I pirated a copy of [Gone Home] just to see what the big deal was. All I got from it was “Rich White People Problems: The Game”. Maybe i’m just not gay enough to really get it. The game for me comes off more as a cheesy TV drama than mirroring actual real life experiences like most people claim it does."

That's one of the tamer examples.

The Steam Tags tumblr is no longer what it was billed as--I guess the original creator deleted it and someone else snatched it up.

Scoopz pimpin the other Scoopz

(Steve Gaynor really did give a killer talk though)

@hassun: Sweet, they finally put them up, thank you for the link duder!

The noir genre? As in "the 1940s detective films that depicted a gritty urban reality"? I hope it's not that.

Good to see someone is giving white women an opportunity to get into the industry.

You know what? I'm gonna disagree with Rami, unless there is a specific reason why a specific gender is needed or useful for a job, using gender as a criteria for applications is gross no matter what the gender is. I'll never understand why people think the answer to unfairness is to be unfair in the other direction- as if that somehow two different directions of bad average out to good. Also, is that even legal? I honestly don't know, maybe it is if you aren't incorporated or something?