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Worth Reading: 05/09/2014

Don't worry, I'm not about to turn Worth Reading into feature where I just read links into a camera for an hour.

Thanks for all the enthusiastic comments about my Kinect video from last week! It's given me a great deal of pause about what I might be able to produce for the site in the future, but it's early days yet on that.

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Not every story makes sense for video. This video was particularly applicable because of the way Kinect works. It really came together pretty naturally.Just writing an article and having a slidehshow of photos probably wouldn't be very effective. Still, I'm now considering new ways to bring you stories on Giant Bomb, and an edited video piece is a new prospect. That's exciting!

A few people have been asking for an equivalent video for the PlayStation 4's voice control. I don't own PS4's camera, but that's something I could change, if enough people are looking for it. Lemme know. I have another story in mind for my next video piece, which would actually be a feature told through edited video, but I'm not sure if it it'll work.

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And You Should Read These, Too

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If you, like me, have generally lost faith in Square Enix's ability to produce an appealing Final Fantasy game, consider reading this thorough, exhaustive, and alarmingly honest profile of the franchise. It appears the minds behind Final Fantasy are more than aware of its shortcomings, even if it's not clear what the future direction of the series is. But hearing its decision makers humbly explaining how they're trying to turn the ship around gives me, for the first time in a while, enormous confidence in the future of Final Fantasy.

"He began our conversation by thanking me warmly for USgamer's review of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. Granted, our review of Lightning Returns came in toward the high end of the Metacritic aggregate, but it wasn't the highest critical rating by far. Not only that, but our text was decidedly blunt in its criticism of the game's weaknesses. I referred to the story as "dumb" and the visuals as "a hot mess," while Pete dinged it for its "clunkiness" – not really words you'd expect to inspire gratitude. As Kitase spoke, though, I began to realize that our frankness was precisely what he appreciated about the review.

What was meant to be an interview was quickly turned on its ear as Kitase reversed the usual interview format. Could I expound more on my Lightning Returns criticisms, he asked? What makes for a good Japanese-to-English localization? What do Americans look for in RPGs? How had Final Fantasy XV's trailer been received? And so on, for more than an hour."

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It's weird to say that I haven't played The Thing. (That's not entirely true. I've played maybe 20 minutes on PS2.) But I recently discovered there's a working PC version of the game, and this feature on the game's development might have pushed me over the edge. It's clear The Thing was made from a place of love, and there's something to be said about allowing a studio to adapt a property long after its initial relevance. It allowed the developers to focus on a good game that captured what people loved about the film, rather than simply creating an interactive version of the movie. That seems to be where many licensed properties go wrong.

"Nevertheless, most of the features planned by the design team made it into the final game. At the centre was a ground-breaking fear, trust and infection model that was vital if The Thing was to maintain a thematic connection with the movie. Fear was represented by the squad mates' reaction to the conditions around them; lead a nervous soldier into multiple stressful situations or expose him to one blood-spattered wall too many and an unpleasant end was in store for either the unfortunate soldier, the player, or both. 'The fear system worked but it was a bit simplistic,' remembers Curtis. 'Keeping your team sane was a matter of avoiding corpses, blood stains and darkness; but it did produce some great reactions from the squad mates. Some of them were quite rare like the electrocution suicide.' Getting your team to trust you was merely a matter of protecting them and/or keeping them well stocked with ammunition; unfortunately the system for infection didn't work quite as well, limited by technology and the template of the game itself."

If You Click It, It Will Play

These Crowdfunding Projects Look Pretty Cool

  • Loading Human looks to craft a narrative built around being a VR game.
  • The Way might be the resurrection of Another World that we all deserve.
  • The Source was part of that recent wave of PS4 indies recently announced.

Tweets That Make You Go "Hmmmmmm"

Oh, And This Other Stuff

Patrick Klepek on Google+

217 Comments

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Video_Game_King

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@evajolli said:

@hailinel i am aggressive, not confrontational though, you're the one who asked me a really stupid question.

But you just....and then you......this.......this is really confusing.
But you just....and then you......this.......this is really confusing.

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Hailinel

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@evajolli said:

let me lay this out for everyone.

the problem with you guys telling minorities to have reasonable dialog when they're being attacked is it's incredibly unrealistic! no one acts like this! not even you, straight white dudes!

what, someone calls me a "t****y freak" on the street, i'm supposed to respond with "oh i'm sorry oppressor. can you hear me out in this reasonable debate, this is the reason why i'm upset right now that you called me this"

i am aggressive, not confrontational though, you're the one who asked me a really stupid question.

i didn't say people who disagree with samantha's tone are wrong! (though they are still people i wouldn't want to associate with, because they'd be incredibly annoying to talk to)

i said, loud and clear, are you ready? people who read samantha's article and come with a newly learned viewpoint after reading it, influenced by the tone, that they themselves are now anti-lgbt, are terrible people and not worth saving! (please read what stingingvelvet said!)

I read what stingingvelvet said, and I believe that stingingvelvet's position is a far more agreeable one than yours because he/she is not taking every slight against his/her position as an attack that needs to be met with insults. You have been nothing but unreasonable in this thread. Trying to force your point with aggression doesn't make your argument any more valid than the point of another person. It just makes it less likely that people will pay attention to your argument, regardless of your position. Shouting down dissent is not a form of debate.

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President_Barackbar

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This kind of stuff has to stop. The content of that Samantha Allen article is so completely spiteful and unproductive I'm honestly shocked to see it presented as worth reading for any other purpose than how not to have a productive discussion about social issues. I can honestly say that after this, I do not support this feature anymore and really am starting to question Patrick's role here. Giant Bomb is not a place I come to so I can feel worse about myself, but Patrick insists on promoting nasty attack articles like that Samantha Allen piece as a worthy use of my time. He just seems way too extreme at times.

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Hailinel

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@evajolli said:

if you read what he said, you'd stop twisting my argument. ;)

you made zero points in your reply btw, you should try actually making one.

but really, you're the unreasonable one, since you are unable to reason with anyone who doesn't fit your model minority, and come up with hyperbolic statements about what people said instead of are actually saying, because you perceive it incorrectly (it's this thing called bias)

Those are a lot of assumptions you're making. Also, how am I twisting your argument? It's one thing to say that I am, but it's another to explain how I am. And if you don't tell me how I'm twisting your argument (which I'm frankly not), then your accusation doesn't make any sense.

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Hailinel

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@evajolli said:

@hailinel:

"i didn't say people who disagree with samantha's tone are wrong!

i said, loud and clear, are you ready? people who read samantha's article and come with a newly learned viewpoint after reading it, influenced by the tone, that they themselves are now anti-lgbt, are terrible people and not worth saving! (please read what stingingvelvet said!)"

But that's exactly what you said.

@evajolli said:

@hailinel: maybe you should learn to read. if someone reads samantha's post and then is somehow convinced to be on the wrong side of the issue (lgbt) because she said a few bad words then yes, they're wrong and terrible.

Paraphrasing, you said that if someone disagrees with Samantha based on her tone, then they are wrong and terrible. This is something you just said minutes ago. The quote is right there. I am not twisting words here. You are judging someone's character based on their unwillingness to agree with someone who delivered her message with hateful invectives.

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Hailinel

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@evajolli said:

"if someone reads samantha's post and then is somehow convinced to be on the wrong side of the issue (lgbt)"

Generally, if someone realizes that they are on the "wrong" side of an issue, that is impetus to move to the "right" side. Your wording makes little sense when taken directly, because it seems to insinuate people who believe that Samantha is right, but choose to disagree with her anyway. The only context that I'm aware of in which this action of disagreeing with someone you agree with makes sense is because of the tone or context of the argument.

In other words, people disagreeing with Samantha based on her tone.

So no, I am still not twisting your words.

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Hailinel

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@evajolli said:

"the wrong side of the issue (lgbt) because she said a few bad words" means decided to be homophobic BECAUSE of tone, as opposed to not homophobic (the right side)

i didn't say "people who had problems with the few bad words are on the wrong side of the issue"

are you accusing me because you can't read?

You know what? I think you need to go back to the start and rephrase your entire argument from scratch. As it stands, your arguments are poorly worded, filled with holes, and any time someone points out the gaps in your logic, you struggle to make us believe that those holes don't exist. This is why fueling your arguments with rage is a bad thing. If you don't come into a debate with a clear head, it lessens the ability to craft a solid argument.

It's late here and I should be heading to bed soon. So, tell you what. Take some time, rewrite your argument in its entirety, reread it a few times and make sure it says exactly what you want to say before you post it. Don't argue that you're right and some other user is wrong; just state your argument, start to finish, and give solid explanations to back up your points. When I check this thread after your response, maybe we can start over. If you want to have any chance of winning me over to your side, you need to prove to me that you are capable of constructing a valid argument that supports your views first.

Also, it would help if you stopped insulting people.

Until then, good night.

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kipster79

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Spookin with Scoops 'The Thing' edition incoming?? Do it, Patrick!

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Milkman

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Edited By Milkman
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StingingVelvet

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@evajolli: All I ever said was some people like Ms. Allen have tone issues on these topics, and that overly aggressive and angry tones can push people further to the opposition, rather than court them to the cause. I don't think you really disagree with that, judging by your comments. I think you're just angry, and want to make that clear, and want to scream "fuck anyone who doesn't get it no matter the reason." And I understand that, I really do. I empathize, I have my own issues, trust me. However we have to be better, we have to sell it not force it with a hammer. We have to be the ones talking while the other side is yelling idiocy, not the other way around.

Not sure how else to say it. If you disagree, fine, but all you're doing in this thread is attacking people who are on your side.

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Milkman

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@evajolli: I don't disagree with you but tone is important. Just saying "you can't read" over and over again isn't going to convince anyone.

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Oni

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itt: so much tone policing. "Someone called you and people like you a political statement, you shouldn't be sp angry!" And of course, OF COURSE it's the dudes with anime avatars. @evajolli I don't know how you do it. Keep fighting the good fight.

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@evajolli said:

@milkman:

there's something wrong with society when words like bigot and racist etc are considered too harsh to describe... bigotry.

@evajolli said:

@milkman: speak for yourself

if we wanna apply that logic to straight white dudes, they already look the worst.

@evajolli said:

lol a list of demands by straight white guy because he's not reading what he wants to read.

Did Hailinel even mention his or her gender, race, or sexual orientation? Or do you just instinctively see everyone you don't agree with on the internet as a straight white male? And even if that were true in this case, isn't making assumptions about someone's character because of their gender, skin color, or sexual preferences literally the definition of bigotry? And Isn't the same is true for making assumptions about gender, skin color, or sexual preferences based on someone's opinion or the stances they take on social issues? Isn't that bigotry?

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Homelessbird

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This kind of stuff has to stop. The content of that Samantha Allen article is so completely spiteful and unproductive I'm honestly shocked to see it presented as worth reading for any other purpose than how not to have a productive discussion about social issues. I can honestly say that after this, I do not support this feature anymore and really am starting to question Patrick's role here. Giant Bomb is not a place I come to so I can feel worse about myself, but Patrick insists on promoting nasty attack articles like that Samantha Allen piece as a worthy use of my time. He just seems way too extreme at times.

I would hazard that it's "worth reading" because it's at the center of a current news topic. I don't think Patrick only posts articles here that he agrees with 100%. Also, it's a tiny link at the bottom of the page - really not that hard to avoid if you really have such a problem with "feel(ing) worse about" yourself.

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@oni said:

itt: so much tone policing. "Someone called you and people like you a political statement, you shouldn't be sp angry!" And of course, OF COURSE it's the dudes with anime avatars. @evajolli I don't know how you do it. Keep fighting the good fight.

Seriously. If these dudes spent half as much time asking how they can help as they do criticising women for their tone we'd have solved the social issues of our day and still had time for ice-cream.

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@oni said:

@evajolli I don't know how you do it. Keep fighting the good fight.

Do I need to post that Katawa Shoujo pic again?

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Hailinel

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@evajolli said:

@hailinel said:

@evajolli said:

"the wrong side of the issue (lgbt) because she said a few bad words" means decided to be homophobic BECAUSE of tone, as opposed to not homophobic (the right side)

i didn't say "people who had problems with the few bad words are on the wrong side of the issue"

are you accusing me because you can't read?

You know what? I think you need to go back to the start and rephrase your entire argument from scratch. [other boring nonsense]

lol a list of demands by straight white guy because he's not reading what he wants to read.

1. I didn't demand anything. You could follow along with my suggestion, and we could at least try to hope for a reasoned debate, or not. You chose not.

2. Where in this thread have I said anything regarding my gender, race, or sexual orientation?

It's evident that you have absolutely no interest in a reasoned debate where you see the other parties as equals. Counter to the repeated claims you make, I am perfectly capable of reading, and I have read your posts. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have bothered engaging in any attempt at debate with you for this long. But debating with you is like debating with a petulant child. You assume everything that you say is correct and get angry when people disagree with or point out flaws in your arguments. You are petulant to the point that you're even lashing out at people like Milkman despite the fact that in principle, he doesn't disagree with you.

Ironically, you are embodying the extreme sense of why people aren't taking Samantha's words seriously. Your tone is repeatedly insulting and filled with anger, you refuse to acknowledge other viewpoints as anything other than targets for derision, and you make those that do agree with you look poor by association. Seeing as I have given you an opportunity to clarify your standpoint, and you've chosen to squander that in favor of lashing out with more insults and accusations, I am done here.

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@oni said:

And of course, OF COURSE it's the dudes with anime avatars.

I need to think of some other way to wear my general interests and sexual identity on my sleeve if they have this bad of a reputation.

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@homelessbird: It's not just that. Now we get giant flame wars between people in the comments all the time when stories like this are highlighted. Patrick obviously believes that the GB audience needs to be accosted by people like Ms. Allen or he wouldn't have presented it as something to read. As Hailinel pointed out, there is a much more reasoned article that was written by someone else who didn't just immediately jump to the worst possible conclusion. We as a society need to realize that you can't throw around words like "sexist" and "misogynist" because you think it makes you look like a social crusader, these are SERIOUS accusations. This also does nothing to change the minds of people who are on the fence or against gender and LGBT equality, it only serves to push them further away.

@oni said:

And of course, OF COURSE it's the dudes with anime avatars.

How dare you try to generalize like that. That is totally inappropriate and contributes absolutely nothing. Are we just going to start making generalizations about people's avatars now and how they feel about social issues based on a tiny picture that says nothing about the person other than they liked the picture or character? That is totally not fair and I would seriously reconsider that stance if I were you.

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Edited By natdog

Hey Patrick, thanks for posting that Jeremy Parish article about Final Fantasy's direction. It's certainly given me some hope for the future of the series, and I'm glad to see that Kitase and Toriyama are willing to examine what went wrong this last generation. Both those dudes get a lot of flack for the tone of Final Fantasy games nowadays. Maybe it's not entirely too undeserved either. Motomu Toriyama once said that the linearity of FF13 was necessary -- "We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a western point of view. When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom." He's not wrong, and that would have been fine if FF13's story didn't feel so rushed. Still, the rush was understandably so given the game's troubled development cycle.

As a series director, Yoshinori Kitase produced what FF fans hold up as some of Square's very best games -- Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy VII. If he is looking at Bravely Default and considering that as good case for a return to form, then I really am excited for what's on the horizon with SquareEnix.

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Homelessbird

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@president_barackbar: I find it seriously hard to believe that Samantha Allen's piece being linked here is the cause of the flamewar in this particular comment section. I'm pretty sure it's enough that the topic was mentioned at all. If there are two things people love, it's fighting about opinions on the internet, and self-righteous indignation. Most of these people were not casually browsing through the articles, enjoying themselves, and were suddenly shocked into action by her terrible, spiteful words. They came here spoiling for a fight. Hey, I've done it myself in the past. Let's not pretend that either side of this "debate" isn't guilty of that. Or of hyperbole and aggressive language, or even straight up bigotry, for that matter - you may have missed some of these deleted comments, but I haven't.

As far as Allen's article itself goes, well, your criticism of its content is sort of fair - it's certainly vitriolic, although you and I may disagree about how much of it is warranted. But I don't think that Giant Bomb has any stated goal of presenting an even-handed view of anything. This article is just a collection of stuff that Patrick has found interesting over the course of the week; take it, or leave it, as you please. If you're looking for some sort of "fair atnd balanced" coverage, then I sincerely think that need might be better served elsewhere - but I wholeheartedly disagree that Patrick is somehow fomenting dissent amongst the users by linking to someone else's opinion.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that I'm pretty sure no one in Allen's camp is interested in converting anyone who is on the fence about or against equality.

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Sergio

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@marokai: I understand what you're saying, too. My post is mostly about how her anger is justified, not that she went about expressing it the right way. I think much of what she said was inflammatory, and could likely exist just to rake in more viewers. What I don't understand is why it is such a big deal when this sort of thing is not uncommon in gaming, where passions are often ignited and opinions are stated very, very loudly.

I do have a huge issue with the accusations of her being crazy, insane, delusional, whatever. Personally, I hate those words, especially in casual use. That's just personal preference, though.

I think one of the things that baffles me most is that many of the people who are calling Samantha out for being too emotion-fueled are the ones who are not critiquing her work. There is this whole back-and-forth of people claiming that she is crazy, while doing the same thing they're attacking her for - getting too personal when the conversation needs to be about the quality of their work as professionals. Samantha could have benefited from interpreting Nintendo's message, not by targeting their company in a rant. Those who are calling Samantha crazy should extend the same courtesy to her by example. I think the conversation would best be about people's actions and words, rather than who they are as people.

It is a big deal when this sort of thing has become uncommon in game journalism. Game journalists have gone a little overboard these past couple of years in attacking developers. Depict something that is violent, and they're purposefully supportive of rape culture; don't have the option to create a female character, and they're clearly sexist; don't include same-sex relationships, and obviously they're bigots who released a statement filled with hatred. At no point have these developers actually done what they're being accused of doing, but they're guilty because one game journalist says so, and the rest comply with that by retweeting or linking to it in their own writing. If there's a follow up comment from developers trying to clarify things, we can expect either an update at the bottom of the page instead of a retraction, or a separate post quoting the developer, with the author still calling them terrible people. Never do we see a retraction and an apology like other types of journalism, making me think game journalism still has a ways to go in order to mature.

I don't agree with some of the interpretations that Christian Nutt made in his blog post, but it was a much better piece than Samantha's. It's easy for some, including Samantha, to say the reason people are more supportive of his post is because he wasn't angry, but that's not what makes his better. His piece was logical and presented relevant facts to back some of his opinions. Her piece had several fallacies, and the facts she presented were tenuously connected to Nintendo. Based on just these parts, he wrote a good piece and she didn't. The big difference wasn't the tone, it was the opening, libelous ad hominem in her piece.

Everyone, including Samantha, has the right to express their feelings in their writing, whether it's disappointment, furious, or anything in between. I might not always agree at the level of anger, but I won't condemn them for showing their passion. However, I'm not going to just let it pass when someone crosses the line, and she crossed the line to me. I would feel the same way if this were a male journalist calling a female development lead a bitch, regardless if he followed it up with well thought out writing. The only difference is that I would probably see more of his colleagues calling him out than I've seen calling Samantha out.

I'm not baffled by some people calling her out, because most of the people calling her out are basing it on her work; the lack of professionalism shown in using loaded words to describe Nintendo and their initial statement. Instead of realizing why she's being called out now, Samantha and her supporters have double-down. If you disagree with anything in that opinion piece, then you're the problem, not her or the words she chose to you. That's pretty evident by a particular person in this thread that I've decided isn't worth responding to.

I agree with you that people should critique her work and not attack her personally, but at some point her work is a reflection of her.

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@conmulligan said:
@oni said:

itt: so much tone policing. "Someone called you and people like you a political statement, you shouldn't be sp angry!" And of course, OF COURSE it's the dudes with anime avatars. @evajolli I don't know how you do it. Keep fighting the good fight.

Seriously. If these dudes spent half as much time asking how they can help as they do criticising women for their tone we'd have solved the social issues of our day and still had time for ice-cream.

I don't even know what stance you folks have, your posts are so full of bullshit. What are these social issues of our day that could be fixed so easily? What's good about the fight to misuse words and hostilize discussions with hyperbole? What's anime avatars got to do with any of this?

Women, LGBTQ, racial minorities, "straight white males"; everybody ought to be treated with as much decency as any human stranger deserves. Nintendo's initial response completely missed that point. It was dumb, it was not hateful. It was misguided, it was not bigoted.

For the sake of clarity:

Dumb: stupid
Hateful: arousing, deserving of, or filled with hatred
Misguided: having or showing faulty judgment or reasoning
Bigoted: having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others

It's unfortunate that these conversations often have to include an element of word defining, but when individuals insist on using strong words with even stronger implications, it's necessary to address the actual meaning of those words in the untangling of their misguided position.

"Tone" can have an adverse effect on an argument, but if your argument itself is cogent, it shouldn't matter. Calling someone a bigot when they show nothing to support that isn't a problem with tone, it's a problem with your argument. Insisting on misrepresenting those you take issue with only shifts the argument away from the point, that all people should be treated respectfully, to the misrepresentation itself.

You detract from your own ambition, poison your own discussion.

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darkvare

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@lordandrew: mario kissed bowser once didn't he in mario rpg if i recall correctly

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nickhead

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I really enjoyed the Demon's Souls article. I know the Souls games sort of got beaten to death on this site, but I'm glad it was brought to my attention. Thanks @patrickklepek

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Video_Game_King

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@darkvare said:

@lordandrew: mario kissed bowser once didn't he in mario rpg if i recall correctly

I'm not sure that's canon (it was at the cake mini-game, right?).

Technically, he didn't.

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@theht said:

I don't even know what stance you folks have, your posts are so full of bullshit. What are these social issues of our day that could be fixed so easily?

That was hyperbole, meant to illustrate how absurd it is that some people waste an inordinate amount of energy criticising women and minorities for their tone when they could be engaging with their arguments.

Women, LGBTQ, racial minorities, "straight white males"; everybody ought to be treated with as much decency as any human stranger deserves. Nintendo's initial response completely missed that point. It was dumb, it was not hateful. It was misguided, it was not bigoted.

Calling someone a bigot when they show nothing to support that isn't a problem with tone, it's a problem with your argument. Insisting on misrepresenting those you take issue with only shifts the argument away from the point, that all people should be treated respectfully, to the misrepresentation itself.

I should probably make it clear that I would not have taken the same tone as Samantha Allen. But then, I'm straight, white, male and middle class and have never been systemically discriminated against. I have the luxury of being able to show restraint because I don't have to deal with the kind of bullshit that people like Samantha put up with day in, day out. In this context, I can only begin to imagine how hurtful it would be to feel like Nintendo — a beloved company, capable of delivering incredible joy — doesn't consider me someone worthy of representation. I suspect Samantha Allen felt hated, which is why she chose those words. Given that, why should she mince words? Why can't she express that without having dozens of guys with a superiority complex pile on, whipping out dictionaries and telling her how she should react? Fuck that.

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President_Barackbar

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@president_barackbar: I find it seriously hard to believe that Samantha Allen's piece being linked here is the cause of the flamewar in this particular comment section. I'm pretty sure it's enough that the topic was mentioned at all. If there are two things people love, it's fighting about opinions on the internet, and self-righteous indignation. Most of these people were not casually browsing through the articles, enjoying themselves, and were suddenly shocked into action by her terrible, spiteful words. They came here spoiling for a fight. Hey, I've done it myself in the past. Let's not pretend that either side of this "debate" isn't guilty of that. Or of hyperbole and aggressive language, or even straight up bigotry, for that matter - you may have missed some of these deleted comments, but I haven't.

As far as Allen's article itself goes, well, your criticism of its content is sort of fair - it's certainly vitriolic, although you and I may disagree about how much of it is warranted. But I don't think that Giant Bomb has any stated goal of presenting an even-handed view of anything. This article is just a collection of stuff that Patrick has found interesting over the course of the week; take it, or leave it, as you please. If you're looking for some sort of "fair atnd balanced" coverage, then I sincerely think that need might be better served elsewhere - but I wholeheartedly disagree that Patrick is somehow fomenting dissent amongst the users by linking to someone else's opinion.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that I'm pretty sure no one in Allen's camp is interested in converting anyone who is on the fence about or against equality.

Yeah buddy, they came here spoiling for a fight. As far as I've seen within these comments, the only person who has been outright nasty towards anyone is evajolli who states they support the article. No one who has offered a dissenting opinion about the ARTICLE (and I do mean the article, since I haven't seen anyone attack the idea of equality) has been rude or condescending at all. As for Patrick, I would prefer if his coverage of issues like this, which includes suggestions for things that are WORTH READING, would perhaps not try to present people who have a different opinion than the authors he suggests as wrong or morally bankrupt. Again, to your last snide point, I have yet to see anyone here actually attack the idea of equality.

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I don't know, Samantha Allen. I really like Nier, Shadow of the Colossus, and Dishwasher, and none of those games really "represent" me. Maybe some games don't have to represent people, majority or otherwise.

I do like how she claims that games like Super Mario Galaxy are now somehow blackened by Nintendo's decision on Tomodachi Life. I don't think that's how video games work.

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@likeassur said:

I don't know, Samantha Allen. I really like Nier, Shadow of the Colossus, and Dishwasher, and none of those games really "represent" me. Maybe some games don't have to represent people, majority or otherwise.

I do like how she claims that games like Super Mario Galaxy are now somehow blackened by Nintendo's decision on Tomodachi Life. I don't think that's how video games work.

None of those games feature character customisation, so it's not a fair comparison. Besides, no one is saying every single game has to represent everyone, but right now white guys have a monopoly on representation at the expense of other groups.

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@likeassur said:

I don't know, Samantha Allen. I really like Nier, Shadow of the Colossus, and Dishwasher, and none of those games really "represent" me. Maybe some games don't have to represent people, majority or otherwise.

I do like how she claims that games like Super Mario Galaxy are now somehow blackened by Nintendo's decision on Tomodachi Life. I don't think that's how video games work.

None of those games feature character customisation, so it's not a fair comparison. Besides, no one is saying every single game has to represent everyone, but right now white guys have a monopoly on representation at the expense of other groups.

Monopoly

  1. 1. the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service."his likely motive was to protect his regional monopoly on furs"
    • the exclusive possession, control, or exercise of something."men don't have a monopoly on unrequited love"
    • a company or group having exclusive control over a commodity or service."areas where cable companies operate as monopolies"
    • a commodity or service in the exclusive control of a company of group."electricity, gas, and water were considered to be natural monopolies"
  2. 2. trademarka board game in which players engage in simulated property and financial dealings using imitation money. It was invented in the US and the name was coined by Charles Darrow circa 1935.

White men do not have a monopoly on representation. To claim such is to claim that there is zero representation of any other group across the entire span of the medium.

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@hailinel:

hyperbole noun

  1. obvious* and intentional exaggeration.
  2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

* Although not obvious enough for some, it would seem.

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@hailinel:

hyperbole noun

  1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
  2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Hyperbole doesn't help in every situation. When the humor is lost, it just makes you sound like you're overreacting.

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@hailinel said:

@evajolli said:

@hailinel:

"i didn't say people who disagree with samantha's tone are wrong!

i said, loud and clear, are you ready? people who read samantha's article and come with a newly learned viewpoint after reading it, influenced by the tone, that they themselves are now anti-lgbt, are terrible people and not worth saving! (please read what stingingvelvet said!)"

But that's exactly what you said.

@evajolli said:

@hailinel: maybe you should learn to read. if someone reads samantha's post and then is somehow convinced to be on the wrong side of the issue (lgbt) because she said a few bad words then yes, they're wrong and terrible.

Paraphrasing, you said that if someone disagrees with Samantha based on her tone, then they are wrong and terrible. This is something you just said minutes ago. The quote is right there. I am not twisting words here. You are judging someone's character based on their unwillingness to agree with someone who delivered her message with hateful invectives.

I think what @evajolli was trying to say here is that those who become actively opposedto equality because of the tone in the article are bad, not people who merely disagree with the tone. evajolli is judging someone's character based on their willingness to take an entirely opposing position on LGBTQ issues purely because of the way Samantha Allen wrote in her piece.

It's the distinction between someone who disagrees with her tone, and someone who disagrees with her tone and then because of it takes up an anti-LGBTQ stance.

That point is reasonable, even if it's not something @stingingvelvet was actually suggesting was okay. As I understood it, StingingVelvet was saying that it's far more effective to try to appeal to empathy rather than stoke animosity. Also reasonable.

@evajolli said:

@stingingvelvet: you're not the judge of who gets to be angry when. the only one who's doing the movement a disservice is you, and whenever you claim people like samantha are doing a disservice to a movement you aren't a part of, you're no better than any of your ramblings about how calling a powerful nintendo man a bigot is so evil. and like i said, whoever at nintendo that sent out that first message is a bigot. if you think that's harsh you want people to sugar coat it for you. you shouldn't be teaching sociology.

Now this, none of this is okay. All humans have a stake in these movements. The first message put out by Nintendo in no way indicates bigotry. It's not a matter of sugar-coating, it's a matter of being harmfully incorrect in your assessment and inciting senseless conflict.

@conmulligan said:

Given that, why should she mince words? Why can't she express that without having dozens of guys with a superiority complex pile on, whipping out dictionaries and telling her how she should react? Fuck that.

I'm not quite sure what you're calling for here. Do you want her to be able to express the way she feels without anyone responding with how they feel? That sounds horrible.

If Nintendo fucks up, she should absolutely be free to express the way she feels about. If she fucks up, other people should absolutely be free to express the way they feel about it. And if the people that respond to her fuck up, then others still should be free to express their feelings on that.

As for "mincing words", the problem there is when those words veer from merely an issue of tone to being impactful parts of her argument.

Consider these two hypothetical examples: "the statement shows how those assholes at Nintendo are idiots when it comes to LGBTQ issues" is a tonally rough statement, while "the statement shows how those bigots at Nintendo are hateful when it comes to LGBTQ issues" is more than tonally rough, it fundamentally changes the proposition using words and context that carry very particular connotations.

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StingingVelvet

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@theht said:

That point is reasonable, even if it's not something @stingingvelvet was actually suggesting was okay. As I understood it, StingingVelvet was saying that it's far more effective to try to appeal to empathy rather than stoke animosity. Also reasonable.

Yup.

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@theht:

I'm not quite sure what you're calling for here. Do you want her to be able to express the way she feels without anyone responding with how they feel? That sounds horrible.

Of course not. I think it's kind of shitty that someone would respond to an expression of anger and hurt with criticism on how that message is delivered instead of empathy and understanding, but obviously that's their right.

Consider these two hypothetical examples: "the statement shows how those assholes at Nintendo are idiots when it comes to LGBTQ issues" is a tonally rough statement, while "the statement shows how those bigots at Nintendo are hateful when it comes to LGBTQ issues" is more than tonally rough, it fundamentally changes the proposition using words and context that carry very particular connotations.

You're right, but I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually argue that Samantha's assertions are incorrect or explain why they think her choice of words is inappropriate. Instead, it's mostly a bunch of people dismissing her piece out of hand because she used a word they don't like to describe a company they do. If they're going to dismiss her article on the basis of tone, then I will happily criticise them for doing so.

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@theht:

I'm not quite sure what you're calling for here. Do you want her to be able to express the way she feels without anyone responding with how they feel? That sounds horrible.

Of course not. I think it's kind of shitty that someone would respond to an expression of anger and hurt with criticism on how that message is delivered instead of empathy and understanding, but obviously that's their right.

Consider these two hypothetical examples: "the statement shows how those assholes at Nintendo are idiots when it comes to LGBTQ issues" is a tonally rough statement, while "the statement shows how those bigots at Nintendo are hateful when it comes to LGBTQ issues" is more than tonally rough, it fundamentally changes the proposition using words and context that carry very particular connotations.

You're right, but I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually argue that Samantha's assertions are incorrect or explain why they think her choice of words is inappropriate. Instead, it's mostly a bunch of people dismissing her piece out of hand because she used a word they don't like to describe a company they do. If they're going to dismiss her article on the basis of tone, then I will happily criticise them for doing so.

These things are not mutually exclusive as you make them out to be. Someone can empathize and still criticize a person, but it is your right to exercise a fallacy here, just don't expect people to buy it.

It's also ridiculous that it's up to people criticizing her work to prove that Nintendo aren't bigots or that the statement wasn't hateful. There was plenty besides those specific words to disagree with her piece, but since you're talking about dismissing something wholesale because of a few words, the same can be said of most people analyzing Nintendo's initial statement, including Samantha.