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Worth Reading 08/23/2013

Some thoughts on the subjectivity of value before PAX, and two weeks worth of your usual avalanche of links.

Even when it becomes vitriolic, I’ve enjoyed the ongoing discussion about how we value video games, a heated conversation prompted by Gone Home. It’s one of those conversations that helps expose the gaps between critics and players, a gap we sometimes forget actually exists.

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I don’t regret not talking about length, nor failing to make a call about the game’s $20 price point. Gone Home is worth $20 to me, and two hours I spent exploring a stranger’s house was worth the price of admission. That’s just me, though, and how other people interpret value is a incredibly subjective. Value is more than quality. Value is personal, a combination of factors--what you’re in the mood for, one’s bank account, etc.

I wrote this comment in an article by Ben Kuchera at Penny Arcade Report. (I also stand by my assertion on Twitter that starting a conversation by calling people “assholes” is ridiculous. It didn’t work last time, Ben, and I don’t think it works here. It distracts from the sentiment within.)

“I've been thinking about this quite a bit, since there was lots of conversation about the game's price vs. value in my own review at Giant Bomb. I don't regret not mentioning the price in my review, nor do I regret leaving out how many hours it took to finish. Those were irrelevant factors to my incredibly subjective review of Gone Home. But I do think it's important for game reviewers especially to check their privilege. Many of us are in incredibly unique situations, able to play many, many games without forking over a dime. Thus, paying $20 for an experience like Gone Home isn't a big deal. Not all critics receive every game for free (I sure don't), but we're definitely getting more than your average consumer, no matter whether you're at the top of the writing heap or at the lowest totem pole. That's privilege, and it's worth, at least, acknowledging what that means about your perspective.”

Kuchera left out the word privilege, but I think it’s important, despite the baggage that comes with it. Someone asked me about my commentary on privilege on Tumblr, and here’s what I said:

“It means recognizing that you have inherent “privilege” due to one characteristic or another. That can be being a games journalist who has access to free games, being white in a society that provides invisible bonuses just for being white, being straight in a world where only non-straight people are asked to justify their sexuality, etc. It’s not easy to recognize your own privilege, but it’s always worth considering what you get for being who/what you are that you might not take into consideration all the time.”

Some food for thought. See you at PAX next week? Please say hi! Don’t be shy.

Worth Playing

And You Should Read These, Too

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There will never be easy answers to the question of what it means to be a commercial artist, or if dabbling in the first part automatically disqualifies you from the second. This conversation actually happened a few weeks back, but it remains as pertinent as ever. Elizabeth ofth Woods wrote an essay on the fifth anniversary of Braid about another independent game designer, Michael Brough, one who's seen immense critical success but hasn’t exactly seen it translate into a financial windfall. What ensued was a heated, fascinating discussion about appealing to the mainstream, finding a way to be successful without selling out, and more.

"Not only have Blow and other well-known devs failed to understand that these subtle aesthetic choices are actually an integral part of the experience of playing Corrypt - they've actually completely missed what the game is trying to communicate in the first place. The more I think about it, the more the gap in perspective and intentions between designers of "polished games" like Blow and more self-expressive, experimental types Brough seems to widen. Maybe this also explains Brough's seeming indifference about how he priced Corrypt in the app store."

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I hope more people read this exchange between Anita Sarkeesian and Spelunky creator Derek Yu. Sarkeesian had previously used Spelunky as an example of the “damsel in distress” trope that has been core to some of her arguments about problematic game design, and when asked about this, Yu responded patiently, thoughtfully, and with empathy. This is the kind of dialogue that sparks change, even if it doesn’t result in any meaningful change to Spelunky itself. It’s about listening to other people and hearing them out.

"I don't think it's crazy to say that the 'helpless damsel' trope is pervasive and hurtful."

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Let this stand as a pristine example of what I’d like to see more if in games journalism. Chris Plante not only dissects the long history of The Bureau: XCOM Declassified’s messy development history, but Polygon dropped this story at the very same moment the embargo was up for the game’s review. At the very moment that you’re reading what Polygon thinks about the game, you’re reading the context for its creation. Maybe it plays into your decision to play The Bureau, maybe it doesn’t, but it was a great decision and should be applauded.

"This is the story of the definitive 2K game: a project given ample creative freedom, an exceptionally talented staff and — for better and worse — minimal corporate oversight. A game that has been in development, in some capacity, since the studio's founding and which has only just now come to light. After nearly eight years, at least three names, three genres, three lead studios and innumerable reboots, that project is finally complete".

If You Click It, It Will Play

Like it or Not, Crowdfunding Isn't Going Away

Tweets That Make You Go "Hmmmmmm"

Gone Home Has Produced Some Great Commentary

  • Danielle Riendeau had found that Gone Home spoke to her due to a very personal experience.
  • Merritt Kopas also saw themselves in Gone Home in a way a game had never done before.
  • Claire Hosking with six lessons on crafting believable female characters in a video game.
  • Zoe Quinn, designer of Depression Quest, is now dying her hair red because of Gone Home.

Oh, And This Other Stuff

Patrick Klepek on Google+

140 Comments

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mrfluke

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@dr_zox: don't bother with him hes basically a borderline troll at this point,

literally almost anytime someone says something remotely bad about patrick, he shows up and starts arguing with the user. Look at what I said for example, a tame name calling of patrick saying that at times he's a cynical jaded old man and that I won't be reading worth reading anymore, but still watch the other content patrick comes out with,

And then boom, he shows up,,

dude is a hypocrite when he's ready, when the Phil fish fez 2 thing was going on he was talking about how there's so much assholes on the Internet and its the worst, and then as you can see in the comments here, basically acts like an asshole when anyone says anything remotely bad of something he's a fan of.

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dr_zox

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@milkman:

Hey Milkman,

Actually contribute to the conversation rather then saying things like "noone cares" and "deal with it"

Ultimatly Derek Yu is being made to apologize for problems that aren't really problems because he is a nice guy and people like Patrick are pushing anita's propoganda. Nice guys always apologize even if they havn't done anything wrong and they need others to stick up for them.

Don't get me wrong I think there are some negative portrayals of females in game media (or any media) but there are problems on both sides that need to be looked at (such as the disposable/predatoral male).

I don't mind patrick reporting feminism, but at least he should try and report what both sides are saying or read the comments rather then becoming a feminist propoganda machine

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke
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Elwoodan

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its always seemed odd to me that the people who are most deeply embedded into video game culture (namely, some of the commenters on a site like giantbomb) are so terrified of discussion of merits/problems with the medium. Calm down, no one is trying to take your guns away.

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Milkman

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Edited By Milkman

@mrfluke said:

So it's patrick the politician we're going to be getting from now on in worth reading? Is nearly every week going to have some style of politics shit like this? Like Goddamm patrick plays so much different types of games, and when he's ready he's right up there with shoemaker as the most jaded grumpy cynical old man in the business.

I might stop reading worth reading for good if that's the case, I also really don't want to hate patrick, as its very easy to hate him, but I don't want to.

So I think I'm just gonna stick to worth playing and spookin then. Cause patrick the entertainer is still solid enough.

These kind of conversations are happening more and more often in video games. No matter your opinion of them, they are important. You don't have to read them. There is a grand total of one, small paragraph about "politics" (or whatever) in this article. Presenting these kind of discussions does not make Patrick a "jaded grumpy cynical old man." It makes him an adult who's job it is to talk about video games.

Fucking deal with it.

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Elod

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Edited By Elod

That's a great article on Schilling. Really can't not feel bad for the guy after learning about the crap that went down with 38.

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TreuloseTomate

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@marokai said:

The problem I have with this whole thing is that I don't understand what the hell kind of "change" that "conversation" is supposed to have. All I saw is a developer cautiously trying to calm any fires before they could start because Anita Sarkeesian made an absurd statement about how Spelunky apparently considers women as equals to dogs, or something. That doesn't solve anything.

When I think of "discourse" I don't think of "two people smiling and then ultimately accomplishing nothing." I think of, you know, something actually coming out of it. I don't really know why we should fall head over heels for civility for civility's sake. That "conversation" accomplished nothing. Derek Yu's response is the worst possible outcome of this Tropes vs. Women in Gaming junk, because it's now making developers afraid of their own mechanics and acting like they have to apologize or worry they're offending someone for doing nothing offensive at all, all because of some person on YouTube putting words in their mouths.

How is this helpful or constructive in any way? But hurray! Civility! Everyone held hands!

What I find most baffling is that we're talking about Spelunky here... It uses a lot of old Indiana Jones clichès and is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. It's a joke. A parody. You're supposed to laugh.

But the "paragon" of feminism tweeted about it, so we better back down in shame.

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ManMadeGod

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@lively said:

@manmadegod: Well for one, there have been studies that send out identical job applications, with some of them bearing stereotypically African-american sounding names, and the non-black sounding applicant names nearly always get more responses.

WELL MAYBE PEOPLE SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT HAVING BLACK-SOUNDING NAMES.

On a serious note, yeah ManMadeGod, how are you even questioning that white people get some sweet passive bonuses, at least in American society? It's not enough to completely prevent a nonwhite person from being successful, but nonwhite people certainly don't get top preference very often, except maybe when it comes to getting pulled over by the cops for no particular reason.

I questioned nothing, I just want examples. If the bonuses are so plentiful, can you list them? Vague comments don't help me............

And when you refer to nonwhite, do you really mean black? Pretty sure Asian Americans don't get pulled over as much.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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You know what, though? In threads like these, and discussions like these, there are also kind of always a lot really great comments that go completely unnoticed. There are always idiots in these conversations and there will be idiots in any conversation you ever try to have (particularly on the internet), but from my perspective, the people most unwilling to move from their positions (or admit to any nuance whatsoever) are the folks that aren't used to chiming into these debates with anything other than "well, lol, there's that male white privilege again!" and getting retweeted.

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BisonHero

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@mrlog said:

never stop being complete shit, giantbomb comments.

They're not bad all the time - just when someone is trying to have an adult conversation.

I'd characterize it more as "Grrrrr, I don't like having my viewpoints challenged. Can't we just get back to talking about the graphics on level 3?"

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AngriGhandi

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I find the tone of that Samantha Allen article more than a little creepy. With that tone being somewhere between "withering condescension" and "welcome to re-education camp; recite your sins."

You don't convince people to join your way of thinking by alienating them with shame and preconditions! As appealing as it might seem, it just doesn't ever work.

Ever.

...Also, video games.

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BisonHero

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@lively said:

@manmadegod: Well for one, there have been studies that send out identical job applications, with some of them bearing stereotypically African-american sounding names, and the non-black sounding applicant names nearly always get more responses.

WELL MAYBE PEOPLE SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT HAVING BLACK-SOUNDING NAMES.

On a serious note, yeah ManMadeGod, how are you even questioning that white people get some sweet passive bonuses, at least in American society? It's not enough to completely prevent a nonwhite person from being successful, but nonwhite people certainly don't get top preference very often, except maybe when it comes to getting pulled over by the cops for no particular reason.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@yummytreesap said:

Shit, y'all, Patrick doesn't even directly say anything about feminism/sexism in video games and you all are still jumping on him for it. It's completely absurd and makes me ashamed as someone who plays video games.

All he was commenting on is was that it's cool for there to be civil discourse in this world, when so much seems to instead be an endless onslaught of vitriol. That doesn't accomplish a whole lot (the vitriol), and it's very important to consider how others feel about things. Derek Yu doing that is pretty awesome.

The problem I have with this whole thing is that I don't understand what the hell kind of "change" that "conversation" is supposed to have. All I saw is a developer cautiously trying to calm any fires before they could start because Anita Sarkeesian made an absurd statement about how Spelunky apparently considers women as equals to dogs, or something. That doesn't solve anything.

When I think of "discourse" I don't think of "two people smiling and then ultimately accomplishing nothing." I think of, you know, something actually coming out of it. I don't really know why we should fall head over heels for civility for civility's sake. That "conversation" accomplished nothing. Derek Yu's response is the worst possible outcome of this Tropes vs. Women in Gaming junk, because it's now making developers afraid of their own mechanics and acting like they have to apologize or worry they're offending someone for doing nothing offensive at all, all because of some person on YouTube putting words in their mouths.

How is this helpful or constructive in any way? But hurray! Civility! Everyone held hands!

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mrfluke

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So it's patrick the politician we're going to be getting from now on in worth reading? Is nearly every week going to have some style of politics shit like this? Like Goddamm patrick plays so much different types of games, and when he's ready he's right up there with shoemaker as the most jaded grumpy cynical old man in the business.

I might stop reading worth reading for good if that's the case, I also really don't want to hate patrick, as its very easy to hate him, but I don't want to.

So I think I'm just gonna stick to worth playing and spookin then. Cause patrick the entertainer is still solid enough.

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@manmadegod: Well for one, there have been studies that send out identical job applications, with some of them bearing stereotypically African-american sounding names, and the non-black sounding applicant names nearly always get more responses.

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"being white in a society that provides invisible bonuses just for being white"

list them

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@lively:

The woman isn't default they are all selected as default and randomly chosen so you still havn't managed to support a sexist claim.

The creator backed down because he is the type of guy to not want to offend anyone. But I see a problem with this... I mean what If I said that having a male as a default starting character reemphasises male disposablitiy.... Or that his showing of spirituallity in the game offends my religion....
very soon you wouldn't have a game.

Next time there is someone attacking a female in real life I might just leave it alone... I mean I wouldn't want anyone thinking that I was helping a damsel in distress and reinforcing negative female stereotypes. She should be strong enough to look after herself afterall. In fact police should stop supporting women as well come to thing about it. It may reinforce negative stereotypes against the weak women. (sarcasim intended)

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@dr_zox said:

Answer the questions about how exsactly spelunky is sexist?

I don't think people are claiming that Spelunky is explicitly sexist on its own, but rather that it reflects a common portrayal of women as helpless damsels.

Having the choice of other damsels is a good step, but the woman is still the default last I checked. And if the creator of the actual game acknowledges that this is a negative trope, I think he's probably worth listening to.

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dr_zox

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@milkman said:

@dr_zox: no one cares.

No one cares about what?

Answer the questions about how exsactly spelunky is sexist?

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Redhotchilimist

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Edited By Redhotchilimist

Some fun little games on Worth Playing this week. Teslagrad doesn't look as great as in the trailer I think, but Pause Ahead looked fun and Rambo: Last Blood seemed good for a laugh, at least. I wonder if Pause Ahead is going for a thing where the developer is supposed to be the villain? I prefer that to indiegames with lots of references, I guess, even if there are Thwomps all over it. Grapple Knight had me excited, but it looks like the momentum stops all the time instead of increasing, so that's a bummer, in addition to the crash it had at the

Thoar. That article about XCOM Declassified is real interesting, even if it has no bearing on me getting the game or not. "How to apologize to a trans person" isn't. What's that got to do with gaming? Are there a lot of trans slurs in online gaming, or something like that? I don't mind articles about sexism in game design or the conversation between Yu and Sarkeesian, don't listen to the haters, that's interesting stuff. But it's weird when it's just about some random minority, unrelated to any video game issue I've heard about.

"The Tale of Magicians" brought me back to art school again. It's nice that Corrypt has a meaning that it brings about in its gameplay, but it should also be enjoyable to play. Those other indies giving him tips on how to make a living out of it(And praising his concepts) have the right idea, they obviously would like him to continue to be able to make cool stuff and improve on it. His message could totally come through in a nicer art style. I appreciate that the article writer likes how it looks and is organic and stuff, but people apparently don't agree with that, myself included.

The articles on Gone Home are enlightening. I remember being bummed out by the Polygon review(I think that was it) because the author said it was the first time she could relate or believe in a video game character. Felt that was absolutely bananas. Maybe it's just white privelige, but I don't remember any game where I had to play an overweight, redheaded, bearded nerd to feel attachment to the characters of games I like. It's good that these guys finally got that attachment, but it's odd to me that it had to be because of well written characters that went through the exact same things they did instead of characters that are fun to play as. Still, happy there's something being made for those folks.

Of course the Oculus Rift would be used to make VR porn at some point. That's... not for me, but I somehow appreciate that VR porn is now something that exists instead of being a scifi thing.

The youtube videos were pretty funny. Loved Kasavin reading that complaint.

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brownsfantb

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That Neogaf link at the bottom of the article was horrifying. At first I didn't know what he was doing. As I read the post I thought, "No, this can't be what I think it is." Unfortunately, it was. Who actually wants to do that?

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Lively

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I guess I'll go ahead and voice my support for Patrick covering the political / cultural side of gaming. Games are maturing as an art form, and along with that comes the criticism and analysis that any expressive medium deserves.

Trying to understand a game on this level and pointing out certain problematic aspects doesn't mean rejecting it entirely, and as far as I can tell no one is trying to do that.

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Milkman

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nsmb2_mario

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These articles always make me laugh. I think some of you miss the fact Patrick is clearly joking posting this moral stuff, or am I also falling for the joke that you all take this serious? Good stuff either way!

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abendlaender

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Can you really call it an "exchange" if there was like one tweet?

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Sooty

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Um, okay?

I don't get video game people sometimes.

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ManlyBeast

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Enjoyed the article. Everything but the Anita Sarkeesian part. Such a ridiculous thing for her to complain about. She loves the attention and you just gave her more but it's your article, so be it.

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Psychohead

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Man, I really tried to like PA Report, but Christ if everything Kuchera writes doesn't just end up sounding like a grumpy old man on his porch. Which is a pity, because I don't even really disagree with the point he was trying to make in his article. Just, man, lighten up, Ben!

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@hassun: I think brad should have done a video when everyone was crying over his DMC review!

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@yummytreesap:

"I hope more people read this exchange between Anita Sarkeesian and Spelunky creator Derek Yu. Sarkeesian had previously used Spelunky as an example of the “damsel in distress” trope that has been core to some of her arguments about problematic game design, and when asked about this, Yu responded patiently, thoughtfully, and with empathy. This is the kind of dialogue that sparks change

, even if it doesn’t result in any meaningful change to Spelunky itself. It’s about listening to other people and hearing them out." - Patrick

It's pretty clear through this statement he wants games to match the feminist agenda

I think that yes Women want more games where you can play as females that arn't sexualised, and they are coming out to meet that demand. However don't insult "nerds" for being "irrational" they just don't want media they love to be warped by the feminist propoganda

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YummyTreeSap

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Edited By YummyTreeSap

Shit, y'all, Patrick doesn't even directly say anything about feminism/sexism in video games and you all are still jumping on him for it. It's completely absurd and makes me ashamed as someone who plays video games.

All he was commenting on is was that it's cool for there to be civil discourse in this world, when so much seems to instead be an endless onslaught of vitriol. That doesn't accomplish a whole lot (the vitriol), and it's very important to consider how others feel about things. Derek Yu doing that is pretty awesome.

Even as someone fairly on the 'hardcore' end of feminism, I don't particularly care for Anita S., but the degree of semi-literate (at best) backlash she gets against her makes it pretty much a default that I have to side with her. Her heart is in the right place, but at the same time she's often misguided and doesn't seem to have a particularly solid grasp on feminist theory or much of any theory at all. It's all pop-feminism, and I don't mean that in a good way (i.e. bringing heavier theoretical stuff to a broader audience). That said, she does even if not totally intentionally bring up important topics. It's just unfortunate that so many mouth-breathing nerds are so wrapped up in themselves to even bother considering perspectives outside their own as having validity.

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Edited By dr_zox

Again Patrick's feminist agenda Please read your comments to get your fans opinions.

So Spelunky is a game where you can play as a female(later unlocked) or a male
The damsels are either Males, Females or Dogs....

Answer me this.... How is this sexist?

It's actually nothing to think about it simply isn't sexist please someone tell me how they can possibly think it is sexist.

Other Problem

Feminist: Women shouldn't always be damsels
Developer: Okay, we will make a game in which men and women can be Damsels
Feminist: This is still not good enough because it reinforces negative woman stereo types
Developer: What if we make it so that there are female playable characters
Feminist: You don't understand simply portraying a woman as a damsel is a negative stereotype.

Fundamental question: Do you think that feminists simply want the damsel mechanicism removed or do they want only male damsels? I don't seem to understand what they want


Feminist: Women as protaginists are simply men disguised as women

Developer: Ok we will give them complex emotions and make them more like women
Feminist: How sexist you are claiming that we are weak and emotional!!!!
Fundamental Question: If you make a tough soldier type women for a war game is this really sexist?

Please explain these inconsistencies I think Derek Yu should not feed the crazy feminist agenda and I think its ruining games.

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TreuloseTomate

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Kill a million faceless dudes in Hotline Miami, paint the walls with their intestines, and watch their disgusting corpses bleed out. But if a woman gets raped everyone loses their mind!

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deactivated-5f8ac39b52e76

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Really Patrick is there ever going to be one of these "worth reading" articles that isn't used for your personal bullshit that you think is important?

It is no secret that editorial stuff by Patrick is mostly about himself. "Patrick Klepek presents Giantbomb.com" is his personal outlet. You and I may not like it, but it is the way of the bomb in 2013.

In the case of "worth reading", I usually just check if he mentions sexism and/or that Anita chick, go "yup" and move on.

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WobibrosfordApe

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Really Patrick is there ever going to be one of these "worth reading" articles that isn't used for your personal bullshit that you think is important?

I don't know what the hell you were expecting "Worth Reading" to be. It is a collection of articles that Patrick considers "worth reading", I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that it they would be presented without personal bias.

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Edited By ThunderSlash
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Edited By Dan_CiTi

I love the damsel mechanic in Spelunky, as I think Anthony Burch pointed out on an old article on The Escapist years back on the original version of the game. It allows you to literally use the damsel as an object, a tool to get things in the game, like HP or a sacrifice, or you can treat he/she properly and have he/she taken care of and saved. Though I understand the problem at the core of the trope, the idea that women need to be "saved" is childish and archaic at best, but within itself it is a clever mechanic.

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Edited By planetfunksquad

@phished0ne: Yeah, I think both of our viewpoints boil down to "Hey, Anita, I hear you, sexism sucks, but it would be great if you picked better targets."

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@planetfunksquad said:

@phished0ne: I'm not closed to the idea that the trope of the damsel is sexist in someway. Like I said, could be about the choice you're given about who you think should be in distress and what that says about the individual making that choice but honestly I just don't think Derek Yu should be a target for a discussion on sexism, know what I mean?

Im not necessarily against the idea either, if there weren't selectable characters(including women) and selectable 'damsels'(including a pug, and a man) it would be a valid(although probably still misplaced) argument.

But the idea that she would even talk about it makes me seem like shes just reaching for arguments. Because at some point we *are* just talking about pixels here. As i stated in my first comment, the damsels in spelunky are either heart containers or items. Its not like they have developed characters or anything. I just hate the idea that people are saying 'the fact that ____ exists ___ is "(sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.) If there was some backstory about how the female damsels had frail women arms that cant climb or something along those lines i could understand it. But its not like Derek created a universe where women are viewed of as useless, there are playable female characters that are as viable as the men. It just reminds me of the whole kerfluffle about Skullgirls being sexist because of exaggerated character designs. She's making an argument where there in most people's eyes there isnt one. Sure it can be 'fun to discuss', but at some point its just flame-baiting.