Assassin's Creed Brotherhood ending..... HUGE FRIGGIN SPOILERS!!!

#1 Posted by Joeybagad0nutz (1438 posts) -

You've been warned.  
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!! OMG!!! This game, this series is fricken awesome............!!!!!! WTH are they going to do with 3? They keep shocking me no matter. I can't believe they made me stab lucy.

#2 Posted by Hector (3352 posts) -

Who is Lucy?

#3 Posted by Joeybagad0nutz (1438 posts) -
@Hector:
Lucy Stillman. The main chick in the story who helps out Desmond a lot.
#4 Posted by Strike11249 (33 posts) -

Well we auviously know it will have something to do with the ominous number 72. Also they "Guardians" are talking about ending the world so i wonder if we will have to stop that from happening maybe? Idk either, this game is way to awesome and just has a lot of twists and turns.
#5 Posted by Joeybagad0nutz (1438 posts) -
@Strike11249:
You have any idea who were the voices during the credits? I remember hearing them saying "Put him back in machine". I honestly think the ending of Assassin Creed 3 would be a descandent of Desmond.
#6 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

I like how the illuminati symbol, the pyramid with an eye shows up at the very end and the other nerd guy says, wait a minute that's a masononic symbol. Still I didn't see that one comming, him stabbing lucy.

#7 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47: Do you think the Illuminati will be the focus group for AC3?
#8 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

@KaosAngel: if you look at the assassin's creed logo, it's already the same as the freemason logo. I think the illuminati, or freemason in this game is abstergo. There was a rumor that before the french king who was jealous of the templar's wealth killed all of them. It's been speculated that some escaped and later re-emerged to over throw the french king during the french revolution. I don't have any direct proof and it's only on a theory. However later on after that, a group called the freemasons emerged that's a secretive group. I am betting abstergo is really the freemason illuminati in this game. It's been hinted in the first game they own everything from the medical field to everything else. The assassin's could of been hashishins who did fought against the tempalars in the old days, which is an arabic word for hashish which you probally know, they smoked it before they go and go through an assassination.

 
Here is another bit of evidence to support my claim.  
 
free mason logo 
    
 
assassin's creed logo 
 
     
This was in an earlier game and you see this symbol again at the end of assassin's creed brotherhood.
 

 

 

#9 Edited by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47: So how do you think it will link up to AC3?  What would the free masons have to do with the solar flare? 
 
EDIT:  How the hell does this have 1,000 views but 9 posts?  Did people just come here to be spoiled?  I won't lie, I have no reason to buy Brotherhood and I'm waiting for AC3, so I just watched a dude play through it on YouTube and got the same pleasure.
#10 Edited by damswedon (3173 posts) -

Just realised that Ubisoft could go real meta and release AC3 on 11th october 2012, AKA right when Brotherhood ends. 
Oh and did anyone notice that Ezio was around 50 before he had a kid? 
Gotta say the Subject 16 stuff was really interesting again especially the whole Communism being a huge threat to the Templars bit.

#11 Posted by Joeybagad0nutz (1438 posts) -
@damswedon said:
"Just realised that Ubisoft could go real meta and release AC3 on 11th october 2012, AKA right when Brotherhood ends. Oh and did anyone notice that Ezio was around 50 before he had a kid? Gotta say the Subject 16 stuff was really interesting again especially the whole Communism being a huge threat to the Templars bit. "

Wait, they never mentioned Ezio getting a kid. Did I miss something or are you just saying that Ezio is now a real old dude with no children yet?
#12 Posted by Ares42 (2559 posts) -

Well, hmmm.... not quite sure of what to make of the credits... 2 new male voices...

#13 Posted by DJSire (45 posts) -
@Ares42 said:

" Well, hmmm.... not quite sure of what to make of the credits... 2 new male voices... "

I got the impression that Desmond is another memory being played out be a descendant... which would make Ezio a memory within a memory, which would be badass.
#14 Posted by Falconer (1680 posts) -
@damswedon said:
" Just realised that Ubisoft could go real meta and release AC3 on 11th october 2012, AKA right when Brotherhood ends."
They do that, and I'm getting into this series.
#15 Posted by damswedon (3173 posts) -
@JoeRiccadonna: The way that the genetic memory works is when a child is conceived the memory moves to that child, that was the Altair part in AC2. Because Desmond was still able to relive Ezio's memories in 1503 means that Ezio was at least 48 before he had a child.
#16 Posted by Gaff (1638 posts) -
@DJSire said:
" @Ares42 said:

" Well, hmmm.... not quite sure of what to make of the credits... 2 new male voices... "

I got the impression that Desmond is another memory being played out be a descendant... which would make Ezio a memory within a memory, which would be badass. "
  
#17 Posted by Will1Lucky (408 posts) -
@Ares42 said:
"Well, hmmm.... not quite sure of what to make of the credits... 2 new male voices...

                   

                "

Either two Assassins or two Templars. Which though is unknown, probably the assassins. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Templars given they could have been watching and waiting the whole time for them to emerge with the Apple for them.
#18 Posted by thehexeditor (1404 posts) -

Lucy won't die.
Try to figure out why, think back to AC1.

#19 Posted by damswedon (3173 posts) -

Most interesting thing I got from the Subject 16 stuff (best stuff in the game yet again) was that Capitalism was created by the Templars and Marxism/Communism was created by the Assassins.

#20 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@damswedon said:
" Most interesting thing I got from the Subject 16 stuff (best stuff in the game yet again) was that Capitalism was created by the Templars and Marxism/Communism was created by the Assassins. "
That's when this game started to seem silly to me. Because, you know, Communism turned out so good for the 100 million or so it killed in the 20th century. :/ That's the problem with attaching game characters to ideologies like this. I was liking the assassins fine until the point when they got linked to ideas that killed a whole lot of people. But anyway, it's just a game. The story stuff isn't really all that deep.
 
@DJSire said:
" @Ares42 said:

" Well, hmmm.... not quite sure of what to make of the credits... 2 new male voices... "

I got the impression that Desmond is another memory being played out be a descendant... which would make Ezio a memory within a memory, which would be badass. "

That would be pretty cool, and would be in keeping with what we know about the technology. But given the focus on 2012 ... Desmond doesn't have any kids, does he? And there's not a lot of time left, so it would have to be way in the future. Which doesn't make things look good for possible settings for the third game. Plus, it might just be a little too "Inception"-like. I hope they pull off something like this, though.
#21 Edited by jkz (3999 posts) -
@haggis:  
 
Well, capitalism has killed plenty of people too. Even beyond that, though,  Marxist philosophy is grounded, fundamentally, in good intentions, even if its basic structure leads inevitably to totalitarianism. Who's to say that the Assassin's didn't have positive aims that they simply didn't succeed in achieving through Communism's rise to prominence?
 
And beyond that, I never really thought of the Assassins as morally pure. As they're depicted in the game, they've always struck me as wanting to maintain the natural balance of power that exists within the world, whereas the Templars seek to tilt it in their favor.
#22 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@jukezypoo: Capitalism (in the formulation of Adam Smith, not the mixed corporatism we have now) is about freedom. Capitalism as an ideology hasn't been responsible for deaths in the same way, and certainly no where near as many, simply because capitalism isn't totalizing like Communism is (as opposed to socialism). But that's just the point: it interjects a bunch of ideological baloney into a story that's already convoluted enough as it is. It doesn't really matter what your political beliefs are; by bringing all that into the story, it overshadows the characterization that is already there. People have varying opinions about politics, and by imposing it on the story, they're just mucking things up. Best to just leave that stuff alone, especially so late in the story arc. It would be fine if the story was already about politics, but it hasn't been. Not in that way.
#23 Edited by jkz (3999 posts) -
@haggis said:

" @jukezypoo: Capitalism (in the formulation of Adam Smith, not the mixed corporatism we have now) is about freedom. Capitalism as an ideology hasn't been responsible for deaths in the same way, and certainly no where near as many, simply because capitalism isn't totalizing like Communism is (as opposed to socialism). But that's just the point: it interjects a bunch of ideological baloney into a story that's already convoluted enough as it is. It doesn't really matter what your political beliefs are; by bringing all that into the story, it overshadows the characterization that is already there. People have varying opinions about politics, and by imposing it on the story, they're just mucking things up. Best to just leave that stuff alone, especially so late in the story arc. It would be fine if the story was already about politics, but it hasn't been. Not in that way. "

Marxism is about equality, not about the totalitarianism it developed into. Utterly unimportant, I'm just saying that both tenants lead inevitably to less-than-ideal conclusions (e.g. the rule of Stalin; American Intervention in Central / South America via United Fruit and its ilk). 
 
Ignoring that though, I see your point. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that it's an issue, if only because they're not doing much moralising in Assassin's Creed. Neither side is painted as consisting of Paragons of virtue (although one is obviously favoured, especially because of the point-of-view we inhabit). The developers aren't saying that Communism was a force for good, whereas Capitalism was a force for evil. They were merely saying that the Assassin's sought to combat Templar Influence, which was aided by the economic freedom of the capitalist system (not inherently a bad thing, merely something that can be manipulated, as can the centralism of Communism), by sparking an opposing movement whose basic ideological tenants ran entirely counter to Templar aims. 
 
As I said, I can see your point: I simply don't take issue with it because the developers don't apply subjective moral beliefs to the ideologies; they merely use them to further their fusing of their mythology with occurrences in the real world.
#24 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@jukezypoo:  To say communism just resulted in "less than ideal conclusions" is silly. No one kills in the name of capitalism as an ideology. Capitalism doesn't have the equivalent of Stalin's elimination of the Kulaks to collectivize agriculture, or the Great Purge, or the Gulag, or China's Cultural Revolution. North Korea's city-sized prison camps, Cuba's La Cabana ... I could go on.
 
"American Intervention in Central / South America via United Fruit and its ilk..." Like I said, no comparison. And that had nothing to do with capitalism, per se.
 
"...if only because they're not doing much moralising in Assassin's Creed." We're not playing the same game, then. The entire premise of the game is about justice: killing those who are harming innocents, and getting revenge on those who have done evil. The game is all about moralizing. They stand around and talk about revenge and freeing Rome from the evil ones who are destroying it. It's moralizing from beginning to end.
#25 Posted by Capum15 (4792 posts) -

Holy fuck was that ending crazy intense. Now to wait until AC3.

Also, I wonder why Those Who Came Before had you stab Lucy? Something about her not being awakened or something? And going alone? Damnit God-Lady, give me answers!

Online
#26 Posted by Strike11249 (33 posts) -

I feel that the voices have a good chance of being Templar. Would make since for the game; They put u in the machine but u have to find a way to escape one of the Abstergo bases. As for the illuminati; illimunati goals have to deal with world domination(slowly but surely getting there). They also strive for immortality(maybe why they want the pieces of Eden?). Through illumination and psychic ability they think they can become all knowing(which is maybe why "The Guardians" want Desmond to stop them; so the Templars dont become the next Guardians.) For the Lucy thing, I think that maybe she has something to do with the Templars. Also she was stabbed in the abdomin which means she may still be alive. Maybe thats why the Piece of Eden took over Desmond, because she is actually working for the Templars? its a stretch but possible. Also isnt Desmond a descendant of Adam so he probably has to find the descendant of Eve to stop the Templars. 
 
Now i found this on a forum on xbox360achievements.org 
 
"It's a big manipulation thing. If you want my opinion, Desmond and Lucy are the original descnedants of "Adam & Eve" - The one's who "betrayed" Minervas people by stealing the Apple. Possibly an age old vengeance tale but that's one of my theories. It's very aptly pointed that at least Desmond is "One of Them". She specifies it in the final vault." 
 
Alright now im done haha

   
#27 Posted by Vao (324 posts) -

When you bring up morality, history has shown that no one thinks their the bad guy, You are always right and the people that are against you are always wrong. it is all based around ones prospective. The ending was interesting to say the least, i was on the edge of my couch to say the least and didn't know what was going to happen, i kinda guessed something was odd about Lucy, the undertones in the emails she was getting from william had some odd wording in them. 
Finishing the subject 16 did add some interesting comments that make me think everything is in another layer of world (this is some inception shit) Someone isnt who she says she is, and someone named eve. 

#28 Posted by Shirogane (3563 posts) -

From what i gathered, the voices were the other Assassins. I'd say that Shaun and Rebecca took Desmond to Assassin headquarters/whatever it's called after what happened.
#29 Posted by DGTexan (1 posts) -

So everyone realizes it has all been one giant memory. But did anyone think maybe it was still Desmond in an Animus? We can live through our DNA's memories, why couldn't he be strapped in and forced to relive memories? I mean, they said his heart stopped or something like that when he killed Lucy, only Desmond would truly feel that way if he was being forced to live through it all. Maybe he didn't know he was in an Animus through all this, since he was incapacitated. I couldn't tell you if it was templars or assassins, they just sounded like voices to me. Could be anybodies' voices.... 
Anyway, I think this ending has left way too many questions. It's always nice to leave a few questions, but there are just way too many questions that need answering.

#30 Posted by Humanoid (206 posts) -

I kind of feel like the assassin's are the villains. 

#31 Posted by Burns098356GX (1366 posts) -
@Ares42: What those 2 voices sounded like to me were the same voices being used by Subject 16... Clones perhaps? I always got a slight inkling that Demond himself is a clone, or the original person, and the other subjects were clones of him.
#32 Posted by Panickev (1 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @damswedon said:
" Most interesting thing I got from the Subject 16 stuff (best stuff in the game yet again) was that Capitalism was created by the Templars and Marxism/Communism was created by the Assassins. "
That's when this game started to seem silly to me. Because, you know, Communism turned out so good for the 100 million or so it killed in the 20th century. :/ That's the problem with attaching game characters to ideologies like this. I was liking the assassins fine until the point when they got linked to ideas that killed a whole lot of people. But anyway, it's just a game. The story stuff isn't really all that deep.
 
@DJSire said:
" @Ares42 said:

" Well, hmmm.... not quite sure of what to make of the credits... 2 new male voices... "

I got the impression that Desmond is another memory being played out be a descendant... which would make Ezio a memory within a memory, which would be badass. "
That would be pretty cool, and would be in keeping with what we know about the technology. But given the focus on 2012 ... Desmond doesn't have any kids, does he? And there's not a lot of time left, so it would have to be way in the future. Which doesn't make things look good for possible settings for the third game. Plus, it might just be a little too "Inception"-like. I hope they pull off something like this, though. "

Well the 2 new voices maybe don't talk about desmond ancestor but maybe Lucy's. Maybe Lucy is a templar. And then in the future two men have a desendent of Lucy in the Animus and when lucy got stabbed (and maybe died) the guy in the Animus was shocked. And the templars want to put him right back in the Animus so they can find out what Desmond and the rest did with the piece of eden. 
 
Just a possibillity :P
#33 Edited by Vendetta (438 posts) -

Really? You liked it? I thought it was stupid as fuck. Seems like they just threw Lucy's death at the hands of Desmond in there for shock value and thought "we'll tie it in to the plot later on". I really dislike the overarching plot of the series, especially all of the pro-Communist bullshit dripping off of the Subject 16 clusters in Brotherhood. But the gameplay and settings are so awesome that I'll keep playing the series until the stuff I don't like about it begins to overwhelm me.

#34 Posted by Irish87 (146 posts) -

I don't want politics in my games, unless it is a specifically political game. That being said, they didn't make the game specifically for me, so I have no right to demand they not write a story that bothers me. Still, the whole Communism/Capitalism thing is annoying. I always find it hilarious when a person or a business (especially a business) that is supported and popularized by a type of system then goes out of their way to insult it.  
 
Remember: there is no such thing as a true communistic business owner.  
 
In regards to the ending... meh. It was good, but I was hoping it would be a tad bit more eventful. Sure, Lucy get's shanked, but I was kind of hoping she would reveal herself to be a Templar. As the credits rolled (and after the corresponding sound bites made me gasp in giddy delight) I remember thinking that the Assassin's had to be in some part the bad guys. Are the Templars good? Obviously not since their history seems to be covered in blood, but the fact their enemies are the assassin's do not necessarily make the assassin's good folk.  

#35 Posted by ragingbull (14 posts) -

you fucking idiots realize that ezio couldve had a kid before he was 48 and desmond would still be able to his memories? because he couldve had more than one kid and not all of them would be desmond's ancestors, but ezios kid tht IS desmond's ancestor does had to be born at least after tht whole shit where desmond says "ezio looks so old"

#36 Posted by guiseppe (2837 posts) -

Soooo, I just beat the game, and once again I am left confused and wanting more. I really, truly hope that the voices during the credits do belong to someone at the Assassin HQ in 2012, rather than to someone in the far, distant future. There are too many things that needs to be resolved before they head on into Inception-land, if that is the case, but hopefully it's not though. Put me in the role of Desmond and have the majority of the game play out in 2012, leading up to the upcoming "awakening", and I'll be a happy camper. Or maybe they can just come up with something that is even more awesome? Who knows.

#37 Posted by Rawrnosaurous (768 posts) -

I'm concerned with whether or not they are going to still use historical locations and times in the next game. That's kinda what assassins creed is to me, a game in which you play around in historic periods that you being able to stab doods in the face and neck. Maybe they can just use AC3 to finish desmonds story and have spin off games involve other one off characters and different time periods. I think that would be best and should have been what brotherhood was. It would have established a nice paradigm. The numbered AC games are used for the core story and Brotherhood and such games are one off stories. 

#38 Posted by Oni (2094 posts) -

Ending was nuts. I don't know who the voices were, but I took it to mean some people (assassins or templars) picked up Desmond after he stabbed Lucy and strapped him right back in to the Animus. That, at least, explains why you can play after the credits.
 
Anyway, Minerva is being really weird. Not so benevolent after all, it seems. I wonder if Lucy was a templar after all or what, or if she's even really dead.
 
But the Subject 16 stuff, after you've cracked all his riddles, is really interesting. He's totally alive. The achievement for cracking all the puzzles is morse code. I translated it, and it says "I am alive". I wonder if the "she" he refers to is Minerva or Lucy. The overarching plot is crazy but I love it. I literally reeled when I translated the morse code. I can't wait to see where the series goes.

#39 Posted by Vinny_Says (5681 posts) -
@damswedon said:
" Just realised that Ubisoft could go real meta and release AC3 on 11th october 2012, AKA right when Brotherhood ends. Oh and did anyone notice that Ezio was around 50 before he had a kid? Gotta say the Subject 16 stuff was really interesting again especially the whole Communism being a huge threat to the Templars bit. "
It's not like he becomes infertile at 50, also Ezio fucks anything that moves so I don't doubt Desmond is the descendant of one of Ezio's unknown children.
#40 Edited by Vorbis (2749 posts) -

The whole point of the PSP game Assassin's Creed Bloodlines was to show the relationship between Altair and Maria. So it seems odd that the whole Christina didn't lead to a child.
 
Also doesn't the ending mean no Nolan North in AC3? wonder who will the new protagonist be.

#41 Posted by Matthias (41 posts) -
@Oni said:
" Anyway, Minerva is being really weird. Not so benevolent after all, it seems.  "
(Disclaimer: I have not actually played this yet, only AC:2 and watched some walkthroughs/vids of AC:B.  There may definitely be details I've gotten wrong.)
Are you sure it's Minerva?  While the precursor woman in the Vault in AC:2 certainly introduces herself as such, I got the impression that the "goddess" in AC:B is actually Juno, that is, the queen of the Roman pantheon.  Shaun even says that the church they were standing inside was supposedly built over Juno's temple.  It would also explain why her voice and manners are different from AC:2's Minerva.
#42 Posted by smiddy (353 posts) -

I believe it was Juno who we were introduced to at the end since Shaun said the building was built over Juno's temple. It would fit the whole "Ancients" (for lack of a better term) being thought of as gods deal.  After going through that whole ending again and looking at what Juno was saying it seems to verify to me at least that the Ancients did breed with Humans and the result was what we now know as Assassins, the sixth sense being Eagle vision. 
 
The most puzzling part to me was what Juno had to say when Desmond grabbed the Apple at the end, 
 
" There is one who would accompany you through the gate.

She lies not within our sight.
The cross darkens the horizon."  
  
And after Desmond stabs Lucy, 
 
 " The way lies all before you.
Only she remains to be found.
Awaken the sixth." 
 
 since this is alluding to some other character that wasn't present.

#43 Posted by Oni (2094 posts) -
@smiddy: Something about the conversation with 16 seemed to allude to "her" being Eve or a descendant of hers, if I recall correctly (which I may totally not). Wouldn't be surprised if this 'she' will be the new main character, á la Desmond, in AC3.
#44 Edited by Dany (7887 posts) -

The ending was a shock for sure and when i heard those voices over the credits, i was hoping for a bit more reveal. I saw the truth on youtube, so Desmond is meant to have a son, her his son will do something...??? 
 
I like the idead that desmond is adam and Lucy is Eve and in order to proceed with retrieving the apple, Adam must kill eve for her wrongdoings..... 
 
Also, did anybody happen to turn on eagle vision before entering the room with the apple of eden in it? The door had the ensignia of hte marks made by subject 16 in the first game 
 
 
 
The middle one was on the door that you use to enter the tron room as you jump around to get to the apple, also the achievment for finding the truth translates to  AMALIVE...

#45 Posted by LethalKi11ler (1405 posts) -

Great ending. Why? Because it makes me want to buy Assassin's Creed 3 even more. Good Job Ubisoft you made me buy all the Assassin's Creeds and you're insuring I'm buying the next ones.

#46 Posted by Hector (3352 posts) -
@JoeRiccadonna said:
" @Hector: Lucy Stillman. The main chick in the story who helps out Desmond a lot. "
I feel like an idiot now. I played the second one, really got into the story. Completely forgot who the characters were. -_- 
#47 Posted by Joeybagad0nutz (1438 posts) -
@Hector:
No biggy. Most people didn't care for the Desmond parts in AC2 and the characters in those parts weren't really likeable, but they really made the characters more interesting and funny in ACB.
#48 Posted by ragingbull (14 posts) -

i think that william m. and another assassins rescued them after they found them lying there and just put desmond in the animus as an excuse for you to keep playing after the credits, and when tht guy says "thats what caused this in the first place" its because they dont know that it was the apple that made desmond stab lucy not the bleeding effect

#49 Posted by Dany (7887 posts) -

Did anyone use eagle vision when outside in the villa as desmond, you see red foot tracks of someone who walks out into the villa and back inside the house. I'm thinking more and more that Lucy is a templar, her foot tracks were red, subject 16 mentions a women that will betray you or something and minerva has you killing Lucy, most likely because she will deceive Desmond. Her DNA or blood, eve, templars.....she is a key factor into the mythos of the games
 
Their is a bunch of ambiguity about all of this but I can see the final game taking place as both Desmond and flash back to lucy as she slowly starts betraying Desmond. 
 
Also, one of the emails for lucy was not from Rebecca or Shaun or William right? I remember her getting one from a 4th person.....hmmm

#50 Posted by ragingbull (14 posts) -

for fucks sake, the red foot tracks are ezios blood from when he walks back to the villa

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