Activating Multiplayer Stun Correctly

#1 Posted by mordecaix7 (657 posts) -

I haven't played AC multiplayer since Brotherhood but I don't remember having this many problems using the stun move. I popped in AC3 last night and went through the multiplayer tutorial. It took me through a section where an NPC assassin walked up behind me and I hit X (on 360) to stun him. Seems to make sense to me.

I get into a game and I'll know this guy walking up behind me is obviously my pursuer. I've got my cursor on him so he's highlighted and as soon as he is within range (X pops up above his head) I hit X to stun him. Except I just get an animation of me hitting him, getting blocked and dying. I think they call it an honorable death.

I kept trying to get the hang of how to do it for about two hours last night but I never once stunned anyone. It just isn't clicking. I get stunned all the time point blank in the face but I can't stun anyone else.

Is there something I'm not doing? Do I need to lock on to the character in question before attempting a stun? How does this work?

#2 Posted by Akrid (1356 posts) -

From what I remember from Brotherhood, that means he hit the "Kill you" button right before you hit X on him - so he wins.

#3 Posted by mordecaix7 (657 posts) -

@Akrid: So I just need to get faster? Would bum rushing him help if I know he's obviously walking up behind me?

#4 Posted by cspanick (50 posts) -

yea, theres no way to stun ur puruser unless your catch him completely by suprise the best you can do if you see him coming and you cant escape is to just hit X anyway as you lower his score to only 100 points which is what matters more than kills anyway. Your best bet is to hide and actively pursue your pursuer; find him before he finds you and strike at the right moment.

#5 Posted by Akrid (1356 posts) -

@mordecaix7 said:

@Akrid: So I just need to get faster? Would bum rushing him help if I know he's obviously walking up behind me?

Oh yeah, is right - your pursuer will always win in that sort of encounter, because their pressing X will always take precedent over your pressing X. If you see a pursuer get real close, you kind of either have to run, or do what I did and (I dunno if they have these in 3) throw a smoke bomb when he gets close and then stun him.

#6 Posted by mordecaix7 (657 posts) -

@Akrid: So pretty much, take off running unless I can use an ability on him. Got it. Knowing that little bit will help. It also means when I get stunned outright, I'm incredibly slow to hit the kill button :/

#7 Posted by thomasnash (579 posts) -

smoke bomb is a godsend. It takes a few tries to get the timing right, but if you do manage it, then you dodge away from their attack, giving you a chance to stun...

#8 Posted by InitialP (27 posts) -

Trying to get what some people refer to as a "naked" stun can be tough to do when directly encountering a pursuer. there are a few abilities that I use for defense that work wonders. When I play wanted, I usually play very defensively and win matches regularly with 1 or 2 kills and a dozen or more stuns. I'll break a few tactics down for you.

Knife -- This is my preferred stunning ability. It has a relatively short cool down time, but It requires you to be able to spot your pursuer a little early and lock onto them, so it may take some time getting used to. Once you throw the knife at your pursuer, they will go into an animation where they pull the knife out. during this brief period, their kill radius shrinks a bit which gives you the advantage. You want to approach them carefully, and not run directly at them. Walk towards them staying outside of the imaginary radius around them while mashing X and you will score a stun quite easily. Again, if you run at them, they will probably kill you. You can run a little to close the distance if necessary, but try to walk/fastwalk when getting closer

Decoy -- This works on most people at this point in the game, but as people become more experienced, I believe they will fall for it less. I would recommend using this ability while in a blend group with a copy of your character. If you use decoy without a copy nearby, an NPC will change to your persona and it is pretty obvious to your pursuer most of the time. Generally speaking, the decoy will run towards your pursuer if you have them locked. If you lock an NPC, they don't seem to run that in their direction as much (This may be my imagination, but it is what I observed). If you pursuer kills the decoy, you will get a lure bonus and they will be unable to attack you. this allows you an opening to get a stun. Run up on them and stun them before they lose their contract. If you look at the pursuer icon, you will notice it turn from a red triangle to a white triangle. As long as it is white, they cannot kill or stun. This period lasts approximately 10 seconds.

Bodyguard -- I don't like this quite as much as decoy, but it will get the job done. Again, you will want to use this with a copy of your character nearby and probably use it in a blend group. Once you activate bodyguard, it will approach a pursuer if they come in range and attempt to stun them for you. Alternatively, after you use this ability, if you target your pursuer, he will begin approaching them even if they are outside of normal range. Be careful with this though. If you target and NPC, the decoy will sometimes attack that NPC. If the pursuer kills the decoy, you can run up for a follow-up stun in most cases.

Smoke Bomb -- The smoke bomb is very powerful both defensively and offensively. They increased the default cool down time to 100 seconds this time around, so I don't tend to use it as much. It's it pretty self explanatory You will want to drop the smoke bomb as your pursuer gets within range. Once they are trapped in it, they lose their lock on you and cannot move for a few seconds. I find using the smoke bomb most handy when there are multiple pursuers, or if I am lucky enough to have my target and purser very close to each other. You can also throw the smoke bomb if you hold the ability button. If you have your target locked, it will automatically put the targeting reticle at their feet. You may want to pull the reticle slightly closer to you if they are approaching directly or might sprint at the last minute.

These are just a few suggestions, and they may not work for your play-style but hopefully it gives you an idea on how to be defensive. You might be successful in using disguise or glimmer to fool your opponent and get a surprise stun, but I am usually unlucky with those.

One last suggestion for getting a stun without using an ability. There is a technique some call a "corner stun", where you can hide at the corner of a building or behind a high obstacle and while your pursuer rounds the corner, you can get a stun if you have them locked and hammer on your stun button. There are a lot of helpful videos on youtube that will show you how to do this, if my description didn't make sense. Hope this helps!

#9 Posted by mordecaix7 (657 posts) -

@InitialP: That helps a whole lot. Thanks a lot!

#10 Posted by huntad (1955 posts) -

@InitialP: Wow, you actually helped me out a lot as well. I was sucking pretty bad at AC3 MP, so thanks a lot!

#11 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5711 posts) -

Smoke is the best stunning tool, but not something you want to use liberally with the long cooldown. I've never been able to get knives to work consistently (the radius reduction isn't that significant so lag can just as well give you an honorable death instead of a stun); but you can still use knives to grief people as you desire as there is no limitation on who you can knife except that you require a pursuer or a target to use them (but can knife any player or NPC period).

Stunning varies by mode in effectiveness and what abilities or positioning you'll want to use to get stuns. In Wanted you can play the entire game defensively and get plenty of stuns and a handful of kills, as long as those are high scoring kills you'll likely win the match (had several wanteds with 3-5 kills and 10-15 stuns thus far, granted I've also had 10 kills and 10 stuns or 8/9 etc). But the pure defense run works as long as your pursuer isn't afk or a gigantic pussy (or another uber defensive player I suppose, they're extremely uncommon though). Morph is the best ability for stuns in Wanted by far and the vast majority of players don't know how to deal with it; even if someone knows how to use wipe effectively they still have to get pretty damn close to you before they can use it so it shouldn't be too hard to spot them.

Steps to using/learning morph > Spawn, find a patrol (ideally a patrol headed toward the center of the map but AC3 maps aren't as bad in this regard so most patrols will work out fine), morph the pack, stay in that pack until you either run into your target or locate your pursuer; your pursuer is always a higher priority in this regard, once you have no pursuers you can move about freely and kill your target in whichever way you see fit. Granted once you're good at the game you'll only have no pursuers for brief moments in matches so it'll be something like Stun 1-2 guys, run up on roof kill pursuer who's likely nearby with aerial/acrobatic/focus, run to nearest out of LoS patrol or a handful of good stationary spots (Inside the Bar section of the Brewery for example). Personally I can identify pursuers in about 2 tenths of a second, most people aren't going to be that fast but you sort of learn what NPCs can and can't do and what players can and can't do, for example a player will never rotate on their own axis in one spot and NPCs will do this with some frequency in Revelations and AC3. NPCs can't fast walk, don't cut corners, never make small adjustments to their heading, rarely walk directly towards you et cetera.

Once you know where your pursuer is slowly position yourself on the opposite side of the patrol, you can generally tell by their direction which clone or person they're going after and it will usually be one of the 2 closest to them, if it looks like they're going for an NPC just wait for the lure then stun them immediately afterward. If you have a second or third or fourth pursuer then you have to be conscious of the noise effect, the "Whispers" as the game calls it (sounds more like hoarse whistling); if it fades shortly after the stun then you're probably int he clear to continue with your present morph pack, if not be ready to either run or use a defensive ability to deal with the next guy who will probably be much more aggressive than the first.

While you're in a patrol you will move automatically, slight positioning adjustments every once in a while to ensure you're not the lead or the tail NPC. There are occasionally some players that will always pick the right target even if they don't line of sight appropriately, I don't know why this is other than the information on who's an NPC and who isn't is likely somewhere in the game files. Regardless you have to use a defensive ability to stop these guys most of the time, knife them if you see their pursuer nearby or just toss a smoke their way. Smoke tossing is extremely useful and most players aren't very good with it, either in evading or simply tossing them in the right location. If a player is walking you'll want to toss the smoke directly in front of them (lock pursuer, Hold R2/RT, move left analog stick downward slightly and release R2/RT; do it fast and maybe practice with it in wolfpack)., if they're running you just want to drop a smoke just before they enter the kill radius.

I'm reasonably sure I'm the best morph player period but it doesn't take an incredibly long time to develop the skills I have (though I have peripheral excellent skills that boost my success rate as well (206 sessions, 93% winning rate playing mostly Wanted), those might be a bit dicier). Maybe something like 20 hours of practicing this, considering there's people that have played each of the games for several hundred to a few thousand hours that still aren't good at dealing with morph I think that's a small price to pay to win the vast majority of your matches in the most random mode.

In terms of Deathmatch stunning is more about positioning than anything else; place yourself in a difficult to find spot that also has a decent amount of vision on the rest of the map and look for pursuers. Use disguise when you want to move about freely and use smoke and knives as necessary to deal with aggressive pursuers. DM you have to go for more kills generally, depending on the match those could be mostly silent kills but they could also be mostly reckless kills; adjust accordingly. DM has a lot of parity so you won't see a lot of huge score bursts and swings like in the other 2 FFA modes; thus if you're losing you're probably going to keep losing and if you're winning you're probably going to keep winning. The most dickish DM players will try to stun you by humping corners, which gives a slight advantage to the pursued instead of the pursuer, just don't hug corners when you move around them and you should be alright. If you land directly on someone then they probably have a chance to stun you before you can act, doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it was in Revelations.

Unlike the rest of the normal sized maps (save possibly Boston Harbor) Deathmatch smaller versions of maps consist of a few clunkers, Fort Wolcott being the worst of the bunch as there is almost no cover for about half of the map so most actions you take will be noticed. Virginia Plantation is just way too big, Northwest Passage is a bit too linear and too open. Animus Village and The Brewery are both superb and the two Boston maps seem functional.

For Assassinate the best way to play for score is "Stun baiting," find a mark, run around like an idiot until they flag you, then smoke or tripwire bomb them, stun get focus/silent/grounded/chain (and incognito/hidden/grab kill if available) repeat. Personally I could score 15k-20k in Assassinate consistently but I just don't care after I have like a 7k point lead and try to stop being such a dick for the rest of the match, the same can not be said for the rest of the God awful playerbase. There are some interesting things to be learned through playing assassinate but dealing with the worst section of the community by far to learn them is inadvisable at best.

#12 Posted by InitialP (27 posts) -

@huntad @mordecaix7: I'm glad to help. I hope my advice pays off.

@Fredchuckdave: I really like that idea with morph. I can safely say that I used morph maybe a dozen times in AC:B and AC:R because someone would almost always get a charge kill or get very lucky with the kill. I am gonna give your technique a try tonight and see what happens. Thanks!

#13 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5711 posts) -

@InitialP: Cool beans. If you're on PSN I can demonstrate, though we could run into a bad luck spurt randomly (they're much more uncommon in AC3 thus far though). Turn up the camera sensitivity to 10 as for the most part all you'll be doing is adjusting the camera and looking in all directions, once the whistling starts you know the pursuer must be close. Every once in a while there'll be 40 NPCs in a small radius, this is actually a good thing for you though it will be harder to spot the pursuer but you'll almost certainly get 1 or more lures and lures lead directly into stuns now.

If you're an experienced player obviously there's situations where you should go for a kill (if first blood is readily available without having to get yourself killed for example) and especially keep track of what you need for greater and extreme variety (greater variety being a virtual guarantee now). Once you have multiple pursuers you're basically controlling the pace of the game, if you run everyone else runs (and thus can't score as much), if you sit in a pack most people will be moving slowly. Once you have Kill Buffer you can literally just focus on getting a few stuns and kills per life and then eventually getting a spurt to finish the streak bonus. I think the closest second has ever been is like 5000ish thus far, you can get that with just greater variety and one 5 silent streak bonus; naturally you'll want more than that but that's usually what it takes to win.

Playing from behind is much easier in Wanted so if you wind up in a situation where you're 1500 or so points back just be patient and ensure each of your kills is adding to your variety count, prioritizing rarer kills as necessary; unless the guy in first has a 4000 point lead a few minutes in (almost never) you're probably going to have a good shot at winning the match. I've played a few matches thus far where I've just sat in my original morph pack, gotten a couple stuns, and had maybe 500 points 5 minutes in, but then hey there's my target walking toward my pack and that's hidden/incognito; get a stun that's chain/variety, another stun and streak bonus and all of a sudden you've got 2500 points in the span of 20-30 seconds.

Boston Harbor is the only map I'm really iffy on at the moment in terms of Wanted, if people are really insistent on playing terrible then it might kill the match. Northwest Passage can have this issue but they have to really dedicate themselves to idiocy in that case (and Passage also has tons of escape routes for you so there's some benefit to the defensive player); but for the most part you will always have a solid shot at winning; which is more than could be said for about 40-45% of the maps in the previous 2 games (granted stuns were much harder to come by in Brotherhood without an ability usage).

#14 Posted by InitialP (27 posts) -

@Fredchuckdave: Unfortunately, I am on xbox, so there's that...

I consider myself an experienced player, and I think our playstyles are quite similar. What I like to do is get the early lead with something like a 900-1000 point hidden incognito focus poison (which is SO much easier without the stun prompt) and try to get as many pursuers on me as possible.At that point most of the player are going to start migrating to wherever I go. I think with this morph strategy, things are going to get crazy :)

#15 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5711 posts) -

@InitialP: Since you're not on PSN I'll tell you this right off: You can use morph at range now, lock a target and hold down the morph button until a little circle appears around the target, then release; works great offensively but I always feel a little naked if I don't have morph up (fairly short cooldown crafted and with the overall cooldowns perk, not as short as in revelations but its almost always up); since there's no Templar Vision it's actually the best way to deal with other morphers though most often they're extremely tentative so they'll run, just be in a position to kill quickly when you do it.

#16 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5711 posts) -

@InitialP: How goes it sir? I'm happy to give advice and live vicariously on the X-Box through you. It was always my objective to be the most surprising player, when I kill someone I want them to think about it and not just have it be a run of the mill standard kill of silliness (though of course I have to change it up for extreme variety's sake), this is what led to being so passive with patrols in Brotherhood. Then in revelations with the stun range I could suddenly get 8-12 stuns a match, albeit some maps were generally prohibitive; in AC3 Morph has been buffed again due to no Templar Vision and much better patrol routes except for in Boston Harbor so it might very well be the best possible Wanted setup; though having a few hundred hours of experience helps.

I will say if you insist on using poison just use it once and be done with it as Smoke's utility is going to outdo it by quite a lot when dealing with multiple pursuers. If you get Quad marked you're probably boned but Triple marks usually aren't too bad; get out maybe 35% of the time, 2 stuns 50% of the time, 1 stun 10% of the time, and occasionally someone guesses right or uses Wipe for God knows why (inferior to Mute in virtually every respect, though mute was a sporadically useful ability in its own right); get a beastly kill somewhere in there about half the time as well.

#17 Posted by InitialP (27 posts) -

Unfortunately, I am currently experiencing an extended service outage from the cable company in my area. I haven't been able to play in the past 4 or 5 days. Hopefully I will be back online by this weekend to try some of this out.

#18 Posted by Aishan (1020 posts) -

@Fredchuckdave said:

and occasionally someone guesses right or uses Wipe for God knows why (inferior to Mute in virtually every respect, though mute was a sporadically useful ability in its own right)

Wipe is actually a really good ability, just not from a defensive capacity. As an attacker, it's probably one of the most useful. While it takes away Mute's kill/stun blocker, Wipe basically provides the Templar Vision effect, exposing your target, but at the same time making a panic-smoke impossible due to the ability lock. It also has a massive radius (the minimum is twice the size of a max-range crafted smoke bomb) so you can approach your target safely, and a decent duration to close in for the kill.

#19 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5711 posts) -

@Aishan: Wipe and Firecrackers are both situationally useful but ultimately not that useful if you know how to use better abilities to perform the same function whilst also having a wide variety of other functions. Additionally if you Wipe someone there's no guarantee they won't just run and then you'll have to use knives as well or what have you. While its uncommon to even see it for the most part when people use wipe I already know where they are and the time they spend using the ability is enough time to stun them. Wipe is still not instantaneous either, which could just be an online game issue, and thus smoke bombs can still be thrown within about a half second of wipe being used. Morph is much more concealed when you use it offensively; all your player does is toss a finger up in the air and twirl it; not a massive visual effect that will make it obvious to anyone and everyone where you are even through walls.

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