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    Batman: Arkham City

    Game » consists of 23 releases. Released Oct 18, 2011

    When Gotham City's slums have been transformed into a secluded super-prison, it's up to Batman to uncover its conspiracy in the sequel to 2009's Batman: Arkham Asylum.

    I didn't see this game as sexist at all, did you?

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    WalkerD

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    #1  Edited By WalkerD

    I'm sure some of you are already aware of this, but this is absolutely ridiculous.

    http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/

    Essentially the writer cites the thug's use of the word "bitch" as the most blatant sexism in anything ever, and goes as far to say that they have no motivation for doing so other than being sexist. I don't think I've ever read worse sensationalist bullshit in my life. The fact that the majority of the comments on the article support the writer is astounding. I feel like I'm reading some Landover Baptist shit or something.

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    ryanwho

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    #2  Edited By ryanwho

    He had opinions. And you went to a forum where he wouldn't be able to respond to you so you could go "this guy is crazy right guys?" Don't be a coward. If you have a problem with someone, tell them.

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    ReyGitano

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    #3  Edited By ReyGitano

    I don't know why the game is getting so much heat as oppose to say, the actual Batman comics. The only newish problem I can see that the game brings up is how often the word bitch is thrown around, but you know what, if I was a muscle-bound thug with no education who got my ass handed to me by a girl in a cat costume on a regular basis... bitch would probably be one of the choice words I'd apply to her in my beaten down state.

    Also I love that this article is IN ALL CAPS TO SHOW HOW OUTRAGED YOU SHOULD BE.

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    owl_of_minerva

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    #4  Edited By owl_of_minerva

    @WalkerD: What exactly did you find ridiculous? Games are cultural products and as such can represent things in a way that reinforces sexism.

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    SuperfluousMoniker

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    Why would you write an entire blog post in all caps? About something so stupid? This is satire, right?

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    WalkerD

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    #6  Edited By WalkerD

    @ryanwho: I'm sure I'd be the first person to say this exact thing to him. However, I thought I'd risk a meeting with Giantbomb's resident asshole to spark up a discussion here instead.

    @SuperfluousMoniker: From what I can tell he writes as if he were the Hulk. It's his hook I guess.

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    TaliciaDragonsong

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    #7  Edited By TaliciaDragonsong

    Stopped reading after the first few bits.
    So should anyone else.

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    mandude

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    #8  Edited By mandude

    IS NO ONE ELSE OUTRAGED BY THIS?

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    Smacraigen

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    #9  Edited By Smacraigen

    I admit, the somewhat rampant use of the word "bitch" does bother me in this game. I think mainly because it's aimed directly at female characters. I mean, I'm 75% of the way through the story, and every major female character has been referred to as a "bitch" at some point. That's just not cool to me.

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    laserbolts

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    #10  Edited By laserbolts
    @Smacraigen

    I admit, the somewhat rampant use of the word "bitch" does bother me in this game. I think mainly because it's aimed directly at female characters. I mean, I'm 75% of the way through the story, and every major female character has been referred to as a "bitch" at some point. That's just not cool to me.

    Sigh
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    OllyOxenFree

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    #11  Edited By OllyOxenFree

    Bitches and whores. I mean, Catwoman is kind of one!

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    owl_of_minerva

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    #12  Edited By owl_of_minerva

    @laserbolts said:

    @Smacraigen

    I admit, the somewhat rampant use of the word "bitch" does bother me in this game. I think mainly because it's aimed directly at female characters. I mean, I'm 75% of the way through the story, and every major female character has been referred to as a "bitch" at some point. That's just not cool to me.

    Sigh

    That is sexist, deal with it.

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    LadyShayne

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    #13  Edited By LadyShayne

    I don't think it's ridiculous when you compare Asylum to City. The change in language is fairly distinct between the two, and I'd be lying if I said that it didn't catch me off guard when it first started popping up. Does this mean that Arkham City should have received 4 stars instead of 5? No, because it's still an incredible game. It just seemed like a pointless addition when Asylum did just fine without it.

    @ReyGitano said:

    I don't know why the game is getting so much heat as oppose to say, the actual Batman comics.

    It's because the amount of people that buy games compared to people who currently buy comics is fairly skewed towards the gaming contingent. Plenty of people have issues with sexism in Batman Comics...and those issues seem to involve Catwoman as well...funny how that works out. Oh and when it comes to an explanation for the thug language you might not want to use "realism" as a defense, because as much as I love it, there's no denying that game is dripping with video game/comic book logic.

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    WalkerD

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    #14  Edited By WalkerD

    @LadyShayne: Your counter-argument against realism being the reason for the liberal use of bitch makes no sense whatsoever. Within video game and comic book logic, thugs are still thugs, they'll still act and speak like thugs. The average thug refers to a woman as a bitch, it's just what they do.

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    Nentisys

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    #15  Edited By Nentisys

    You are all bitches. Im sexist!

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    HODGEY3000

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    #16  Edited By HODGEY3000

    catwoman is a whore

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    owl_of_minerva

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    #17  Edited By owl_of_minerva

    @WalkerD: So if thugs are sexist in reality, and then the game reflects those attitudes in its representation of thugs, it magically becomes not sexist then? Unless it demonstrates some irony or critical distance it reinforces those attitudes. Also, going from the article you linked, it provides examples of sexism in the representation of Catwoman/Batman as well.

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    Chop

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    #18  Edited By Chop

    I dunno bout' sexist, but the constant barrage of bitch seemed completely out of place. I mean, the game is rated teen right? I didn't think they could say bitch 10000+ times and get away with it..meh

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    Smacraigen

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    #19  Edited By Smacraigen

    @Chop: Fully agreed.

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    will_m

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    #20  Edited By will_m

    @TaliciaDragonsong said:

    Stopped reading after the first few bits. So should anyone else.

    This.

    Its a game set in a prison city. Was he expecting everyone to be referred to as "sir" or "ma'am"? Let's face it, Catwoman has always been depicted as a sexy, flirtatious woman. That goes for comics, movies or even the cartoons.

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    WalkerD

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    #21  Edited By WalkerD

    @owl_of_minerva: What I'm hearing from you is that when something portrays a group with bigotries it should completely ignore those bigotries, and act as if they don't exist, otherwise it in some way supports them. That's one of the most god damn terrible things I've ever heard. The portrayal of a thug being sexist, does not inherently make the game sexist. These thugs also rape, and kill, and fucking eat people. All of that shouldn't be in there because it's just reinforcing that kind of attitude right?

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    Hamz

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    #22  Edited By Hamz

    There's always one person that tries to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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    WalkerD

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    #23  Edited By WalkerD

    @Chop: The reason you hear the word bitch so much is because it's one of the words they can get away with and keep their T rating. Other than the occasional damn, or ass, it's really all they've got to make these thugs sound like they're rough dudes.

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    makari

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    #24  Edited By makari

    One day the suffocating American brand of political correctness will reach a point where all villains in all media are not allowed to do anything bad, because a bad person being bad for the sake of coming across as being a bad person sets a bad example for people in the real world that may or may not want to dabble in possibly being bad at some point.

    Because it's bad.

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    mandude

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    #25  Edited By mandude

    Haha, we can sell our children murder, but we'll be damned before we sell them naughty words.

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    owl_of_minerva

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    #26  Edited By owl_of_minerva

    @WalkerD: Why is a game based on comic books selectively 'realistic' when it comes to attitudes towards women? Especially when as many people have pointed out, it's a constant barrage of abusive language specifically written in, when it wasn't in the first game and doesn't need to be? Do Harley Quinn and Catwoman represent women in a way that counters those attitudes, or does it reinforce them? And given that Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and their relationship to Batman is also depicted in a sexist way, it doesn't take detective vision to see sexism pervading the game.

    So no, if the game was depicting the thugs as having sexist attitudes in isolation from all the other stuff, it wouldn't matter, but in the context of everything else there's nothing not sexist about it.

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    LadyShayne

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    #27  Edited By LadyShayne

    @WalkerD: Okay, so your belief is that thugs are thugs whether realistic or fictional, correct? So if I'll suspend my disbelief and pretend that the world I played through is a real one, are you telling me that out of the hundreds of criminals in Arkham City the only ones I run into are straight, beefed up males that are focused solely on degrading the only three females in the game? I don't know about the thugs you roll with, but from what I understand they don't always talk about women. Some have other preferences...if we're talking about realism, of course. 100% of "real thugs" don't focus their verbal assaults on woman only (it's more equal opportunity hate for the modern ones), but that seemed to be the case here. Softball insults were thrown at Batman while the women where all talked about like they were complete trash. Compare that to Asylum where you have Costume Nurse Harley and Leaf Bottoms Ivy traipsing around what was more of a prison than a psych ward, yet the language towards women is stronger when they move on up to the city? Another point raised is that the thugs weren't the only ones using that language, but the cops got in on it too. What's the rationalization of that? I'm not sure if I fleshed out what you considered to be my senseless counter-argument, but I suppose that will do for now.

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    tim_the_corsair

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    #28  Edited By tim_the_corsair
    @owl_of_minerva Its in character sexism, which makes sense in context.

    Would the male criminal calling Catwoman a prick make people feel all warm and gooey with equality? This is like listening to a Kanye album and complaining it's racist towards black people.

    Context people.
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    TobbRobb

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    #29  Edited By TobbRobb

    Wow, that article is unreadable. Not even gonna bother, coincidentally, that means I can't argue against him. Though for some of you other guys calling this sexist, isn't sexism supposed to be one sided? Have any of you looked at the males? They are all so ridicolously muscular and MANLY that it's just silly. My plump nerd ass won't take offense to that massive stereotype of what is considered "perfect" males.

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    WalkerD

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    #30  Edited By WalkerD

    @owl_of_minerva: Explain to me where the game is being selectively realistic with attitudes towards women. At what point are the thugs acting radically different than they would in real life? Harley Quinn and Catwoman represent woman the same way they do in the comics, as they should, considering this is a game based on a comic. To the point where the comics might be sexist in this regard, that's complete and utter garbage too. There ARE women in the world who act the way Catwoman and Harley Quinn do, to depict a woman acting this way is in no way sexist, especially when there are other women in the game(Vicky Vale, Poison Ivy) who DON'T act this way. Honestly your outlook on fictional media disgusts me. Completely ignoring the negative attributes of certain groups of people because through your own twisted view it somehow supports them.

    The reason you didn't hear this talk about women in the first game is because there were far less opportunities for it and far lass dialogue at all from the henchmen, catwoman wasn't in the game at all, no one but Batman ever came into contact with Ivy, and Harley was a very minor character.

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    WalkerD

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    #31  Edited By WalkerD

    @LadyShayne: It doesn't do at all really. From what I've gathered, you seem to think that the thugs ONLY talk about the women in the game. Furthermore you seem to think that the average "street thug" goes around telling all of his friends about his homosexual interests. They discuss killing, they discuss what gang they're in or are going to be in, they discuss the current status of The Joker and Batman, and they discuss women. What other average thug chat do you want them to participate in? How much coke they snorted earlier? I'm sure that'll fly with the ESRB. These, "softball insults" as you call them, that are thrown around at the male characters are all that can be said within the constraints of a T rating. You aren't going to get Penguin calling Twoface a pig fucker in a T rating, whereas bitch is considered a lighter profanity, and applies, as Batman is overhearing the conversations of the thugs, and two women are at the forefront of the story. I'm not sure where you got the idea that the cops in-game are going around insulting women, but you're flat out wrong in that case, as it never happens.

    I've covered why the women weren't discussed as much in Asylum in an earlier post. So yes, your argument is still senseless, and you've successfully proven you're completely misinformed.

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    owl_of_minerva

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    #32  Edited By owl_of_minerva

    @WalkerD: Let's draw an analogy. If Harley Quinn and Catwoman were African-American, for instance, and the game adopted a similar tone towards them, would it be alright? And before you say it's a false analogy, it's really not. It's just more cloudy with gender relations because they're less visible and unequal power relationships/misogynist representations are more commonly accepted than racism is at present.

    You're misconstruing my point. My problem is not with the thugs being sexist (although other characters, such as cops and Batman, also behave in a sexist manner) on their own. I'm saying that the logic of verbally belittling women yet representing them as weak sex objects without much agency is consistent with the logic of sexism and there's evidence that the game does just that. The one-dimensional depiction of Harley Quinn and Catwoman as weak sex objects to either be treated contemptuously or as damsels in distress betrays a male power fantasy that isn't remotely realistic, and whether Vicki Vale and Poison Ivy (lol!) are sexist depictions or not doesn't somehow make the other characters not sexist. Your whole argument is a sequence of non sequiturs and strawmanning of my position. I never said negative depictions shouldn't exist, I'm saying that the negative depiction of women in the game is ALSO sexist. It's not the same thing, and it's a common argument trotted out by people eager to deny the prevalence of sexism.

    Just look at this from the article you quoted:

    "TO REITERATE: IN THE FIRST HOUR OF ARKHAM CITY WE HAVE A SCANTILLY CLAD HIGH-HEAL-NINJA-ING CATWOMAN GETTING BEATEN BY TWO-FACE AS HE CALLS HER A BITCH. WE HAVE A GROUP OF MUSCLE-BOUND HOODLUMS ALL STANDING AROUND EXCITED TO DUMP HER INTO A VAT OF ACID. BATMAN COMES TO THE RESCUE AS CATWOMAN ESCAPES. SHE FLIRTS WITH HIM MERCILESSLY AND MAKES NOT JUST DUMB, BUT NOT-FUN SEXY PUNS. BATMAN THEN GOES OUTSIDE AND YOU OVERHEAR A BUNCH OF GUYS TALKING ABOUT HOW CATWOMAN AND AGAIN THE WORD BITCH POPS IN. THEY ALL THINK SHE SWINGS BOTH WAYS (CAUSE THAT’S THE KIND OF THING ANY SEXY GIRL MUST BE UP FOR). AND THEN THEY’RE BASICALLY TALKING ABOUT THEIR MASTURBATORY FANTASIES OF HER… YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE SAME ONE THEY WERE CALLING A BITCH. BATMAN THEN GOES OVER TOWARD THE JOKER’S TOWER AND YOU HOPE ALL THIS SHIT IS OVER BUT THEN YOU OVERHEAR A BUNCH OF THUGS TALKING ABOUT HOW HARLEY QUINN IS A DUMB BITCH.

    NOW THIS WAS WHERE HULK LEFT IT THE OTHER NIGHT AND TO BE SURE HULK WASN’T JUST REACTING OUT OF MOMENTARY THINGS HULK CAME BACK AND PLAYED A LOT MORE TO BE FAIR… IT DIDN’T GET ANY BETTER.

    ACTUALLY IT GOT WORSE. THE FOLLOWING IS STUFF OVERHEARD BY A WIDE CAST OF CHARACTERS THAT INCLUDES PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY:

    “DON’T COME ANY CLOSER OR THIS BITCH GETS A HOLE WHERE HER HEAD USED TO BE!”

    “THAT CRAZY BITCH!” (SAID BY A GOOD GUY)

    “SHE SCARES ME. FORTUNATELY I SAW THE CRAZY BITCH LEAVING!”

    “YOU DON’T FIND THE BOSSES GIRL ATTRACTIVE DO YOU?” / “IN HERE THEY ALL LOOK GOOD.”

    “DID YOU HEAR THE NOISE THAT DOCTOR WAS MAKIN?” / (GIGGLE) “I LIKE HEARING HER SCREAM LIKE THAT”

    “I DON’T KNOW WHAT JOKER SEES IN THAT CRAZY BITCH”

    CATWOMAN NEEDING MORE GADGETS (AND TALKING TO HERSELF): “I NEED MY TOYS. I’D JUST BE (INSERT MARYLIN MONROE VOICE) NAKED WITH OUT THEM (COO).”

    “YEAH THE BOSS HAD THE CAT ALL CHAINED UP BUT THAT BITCH BROKE FREE.”

    EVEN BATMAN, THE PARAGON OF GOODNESS ASKS HARLEY TO MOVE AT ONE POINT. WHEN SHE DOESN’T, HE SEEMS TO TAKE EERIE DELIGHT IN MANHANDLING HER AND THROWING HER OVER. NOTHING BUSINESS LIKE, THE EMPHASIS IS SO FUCKING WEIRD. BATMAN LIKED IT."

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    oatz

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    #33  Edited By oatz

    This fucking white knight mentality in the video game industry needs to stop. Jesus Christ, why would he humiliate himself like that?

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    LadyShayne

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    #34  Edited By LadyShayne

    @WalkerD: I think you just answered your own question. Their selective realism is choosing to show degradation against woman as opposed to going racial which seems more in line with REAL prison mentality insults. No one is saying that some thugs wouldn't talk that way, it's just the fact that they only talk that way about the women in the game. Considering that Batman does more damage to their plans compared to Catwoman, and they're usually working with Harley, the fact that they save the worst insults for the ladies seems uncommon. Also, with the game being fairly fresh in my head (though I could be wrong) I'm pretty sure the thugs used the same language for Vicky as the other women while they were shooting at her. You're right, she neither acts nor does she dress the same way that the other women do, however she was lumped in the same category with them all the same.

    Speaking of ignoring things, do you believe that if a woman dressed in a naughty nurse costume was walking around a prison facility, even for just an hour, that nobody would talk about it? Minor character or not, someone would've been talking. As both the Batman: Arkham series of games and life through proxy has taught me, prison dudes LOVE to gossip. Harley's "minor" appearance would still illicit a strong response if reality was the same in Asylum as it is in City and also the World. Maybe we're all working with 3 different realities which is part of the problem. I still completely love the game, but I don't see a problem with considering other opinions of it. I personally wouldn't call the game sexist, but some of the content in the game didn't mesh with the foundation they've laid thus far. No need to be sensitive about a blogger who didn't like one element of the game but loved everything else. Folks, it's all going to be alright...

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    mike

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    #35  Edited By mike

    I think the real story here is there is a guy who calls himself "Film Critic Hulk" and makes a poor attempt at speaking like The Hulk...and in all caps, no less.

    I can't believe anyone would bother reading anything he writes, let alone taking anything he ever says seriously. What a loon.

    @oatz said:

    This fucking white knight mentality in the video game industry needs to stop. Jesus Christ, why would he humiliate himself like that?

    This Film Critic Hulk guy just reeks of someone who never gets laid and thinks the white knight act will somehow change that...(while imitating The Hulk)

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    Mars_Cleric

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    #36  Edited By Mars_Cleric

    I totally agree with this issue.

    Everyone knows thugs are very aware of feminist concerns and would never call a woman a bitch. I mean, who's ever heard of a sexist criminal?

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    TwoLines

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    #37  Edited By TwoLines

    Eh. Whatever.

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    Mariek430

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    #38  Edited By Mariek430

    I like that this guy tries to use "BATMAN ENJOYED THROWING HARLEY AROUND CUZ HE FUCKIN SEXIST N HATES WOMANZ"

    As oppose to something like how many times Harley has tried to kill him, his friends, random people

    Nah, gotta be cause he hates things with a vagina

    Also don't understand how Catwoman is portrayed as "weak" when you can run into a crowd of 6 guys, and beat their asses down, without getting hit once.

    People will latch onto just about anything to try and white knight it

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    Rolyatkcinmai

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    #39  Edited By Rolyatkcinmai

    Bitches are sexist.

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    MikkaQ

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    #40  Edited By MikkaQ

    @owl_of_minerva said:

    @WalkerD: So if thugs are sexist in reality, and then the game reflects those attitudes in its representation of thugs, it magically becomes not sexist then? Unless it demonstrates some irony or critical distance it reinforces those attitudes. Also, going from the article you linked, it provides examples of sexism in the representation of Catwoman/Batman as well.

    Well you are beating the shit out of these thugs, so I guess it could be see as feminist revenge fantasy by that broad logic.

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    CharlesAlanRatliff

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    I played through Arkham Asylum right before Arkham City, and "bitch" was used multiple times in that, too. I didn't even know the language used in Arkham City was an issue until I beat it and saw it mentioned on Twitter. It makes sense for the word to be used more often, seeing as there are a lot more enemies in this game and females are featured far more prominently, along with the whole "local surveillance" addition to the gameplay that wasn't in Arkham Asylum. A lot of people you encounter are sadistic thugs that haven't had the chance to be with a woman in a long time, not to mention that there aren't that many cuss words the game can use without receiving an M-rating; just imagine what they would be saying then! Also, "bitch" can be an apt descriptor for most of the females in the game, based on their history.

    Besides, using the word "bitch" is pretty tame compared to a lot of the stuff that's discussed or happens in this game. I wouldn't have been surprised if this was rated M, actually.

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    SeriouslyNow

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    #42  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @MB said:

    I think the real story here is there is a guy who calls himself "Film Critic Hulk" and makes a poor attempt at speaking like The Hulk...and in all caps, no less.

    I can't believe anyone would bother reading anything he writes, let alone taking anything he ever says seriously. What a loon.

    @oatz said:

    This fucking white knight mentality in the video game industry needs to stop. Jesus Christ, why would he humiliate himself like that?

    This Film Critic Hulk guy just reeks of someone who never gets laid and thinks the white knight act will somehow change that...(while imitating The Hulk)

    HULK PANDER! ;)
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    TranceQuina

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    #43  Edited By TranceQuina

    @owl_of_minerva: Hmm, I don't know about this. I think it's very possible for a story to *portray* any sort of character without "reinforcing" them. Showing that something exists isn't the same as showing that it's okay. We always have the choice of looking at the creators and deciding for ourselves what their motivations really were behind such content, but I think until Joker slaps Harley down then turns to the camera and tells the kids "Rocksteady says to keep your pimp hand strong," there isn't any proven reinforcement, rather than simply portraits of some characters.

    That said, the word is in there an awful lot. I think it's due to dry, mostly unambitious writing. Hell, look at the REST of that script.

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    nohthink

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    #44  Edited By nohthink

    @WalkerD: Well... I happen to believe a lot of media are actually sexist. Although I would not go as far as that article, I can see what it is saying. And no, I'm not a woman.

    I mean... all the females characters, or at least all the female characters that I have seen, are overly sexualized in this game. Tights(Catwoman), barely wearing clothes(Poison Ivy), what have you. Although they are portrayed as strong and powerful, at some point, you gotta ask whether it was necessary for them to make Catwoman's butt swing that much when she walks. Or the way she talks, which is flirty or even seductive, makes her very promiscuous, which is fine. Promiscuity is more of a character attribute of Catwoman than anything else but I can see how women would get offended.

    Forget about Catwoman. Harley Quinn is the worst and the most sexist portrayal of woman. She is taking care of Joker obsessively and her identity is nothing without Joker. At least Catwoman is powerful and independent(except for against Batman because apparently she just cannot get enough of him). Players are introduced to Harley by pressing a button to counter her attack and well... basically taking her down. There is no power in Harley's character. If there is any, that would be her being Joker's assistant.

    I don't know. I think it's pretty easy to spot and I can understand how females would get offended by that. It is also important to note that whoever wrote that article is talking about the first few hours. I also played only couple of hours of the game. Maybe Harley and Catwoman become super independent at the end. I don't know. But people are easily offended in general(let's not forget Metroid; Other M being sexist and Resident Evil 5 being racist).

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    MrGtD

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    #45  Edited By MrGtD

    The constant use of bitch is totally off-putting and completely sexist.

    It's supposed to be.

    They're the bad guys.

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    Dany

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    #46  Edited By Dany

    Who the fuck posts an article in all caps?

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    veektarius

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    #47  Edited By veektarius

    @owl_of_minerva: I would say it does represent a critical distance from those attitudes considering you beat up everyone who calls Catwoman a bitch?

    I mean, she's your woman, man. Or is that sexist?

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    LadyShayne

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    #48  Edited By LadyShayne

    @WalkerD: Let's work with a proper quote of what I said so that we're completely clear. I did not say:

    you seem to think that the thugs ONLY talk about the women in the game.

    However what I actually said was:

    @LadyShayne said:

    No one is saying that some thugs wouldn't talk that way, it's just the fact that they only talk that way about the women in the game.

    See that? I said only talk a specific way about women, not only talk about women. It's a subtle difference. That's why it stands out so much in the game for some people, because the way they speak about Batman despite him being the cause of most of their troubles (I'm sure I've already stated this to you before) is different compared to the women. The fact that you believe a male insult has to go way into the Mature/AO zone to be usable while the female insults, or rather the same one repeatedly, is suitable for the ratings board is hilarious. It sounds like a lack of faith in the developer's creativity to come up with more entertaining quips for the guys. I don't know, maybe that's the case. Two women are at the forefront, so that's why the thugs save the "lighter profanity" for them? I believe Batman has the forefront, the women are just middle ground, common sense would say that the focus would be on the Bat. Other than referring to him as a freak, I can't think of any actual insult we can compare/contrast with. No one expected a G-rated game, so the point that any detractors are pushing for such a thing has no merit.

    Also I didn't say that the average street thug is gay or speaking as though they are, simply the idea that this game has realistic thugs that are all straight, all 'roided out, and all have mommy issues is fairly laughable. Which brings me back to the previous point made, that you can't honestly believe the game depicts realistic thug behavior and use it as a defense when they cherry pick the dialogue choices that are the easiest for them to write without thinking. Do you have to be PC? No, but get a little creative instead of sticking with the same go to each time. The heart of this matter is that when anyone tries to play devil's advocate and consider that there is more than one opinion in this scenario that has valid points, you begin to misquote/misinterpret and start mentioning things that stray from the point. Such as how you find someone's differing opinion on "fictional media" disgusting and dress down my opinion as senseless simply because you can't comprehend moral shades of gray. Your thought process is "You're either for me or against me", but I can't agree 100% with the article you posted from "Hulk" just as I can't agree 100% with you. I find the statement made in the article that Batman really enjoyed pushing Harley to be completely ridiculous and unfounded (as well as some other points made), but that doesn't discredit the thought that the language shift from the first game to the second is a curious one.

    I will once again state that I did not feel the game was sexist, nor was I personally offended by it. This didn't stop me from playing and loving the game, I simply can understand the other side of the argument.

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    spoonfreak

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    #49  Edited By spoonfreak

    @LadyShayne said:

    @WalkerD: Let's work with a proper quote of what I said so that we're completely clear. I did not say:

    you seem to think that the thugs ONLY talk about the women in the game.

    However what I actually said was:

    @LadyShayne said:

    No one is saying that some thugs wouldn't talk that way, it's just the fact that they only talk that way about the women in the game.

    See that? I said only talk a specific way about women, not only talk about women. It's a subtle difference. That's why it stands out so much in the game for some people, because the way they speak about Batman despite him being the cause of most of their troubles (I'm sure I've already stated this to you before) is different compared to the women. The fact that you believe a male insult has to go way into the Mature/AO zone to be usable while the female insults, or rather the same one repeatedly, is suitable for the ratings board is hilarious. It sounds like a lack of faith in the developer's creativity to come up with more entertaining quips for the guys. I don't know, maybe that's the case. Two women are at the forefront, so that's why the thugs save the "lighter profanity" for them? I believe Batman has the forefront, the women are just middle ground, common sense would say that the focus would be on the Bat. Other than referring to him as a freak, I can't think of any actual insult we can compare/contrast with. No one expected a G-rated game, so the point that any detractors are pushing for such a thing has no merit.

    Also I didn't say that the average street thug is gay or speaking as though they are, simply the idea that this game has realistic thugs that are all straight, all 'roided out, and all have mommy issues is fairly laughable. Which brings me back to the previous point made, that you can't honestly believe the game depicts realistic thug behavior and use it as a defense when they cherry pick the dialogue choices that are the easiest for them to write without thinking. Do you have to be PC? No, but get a little creative instead of sticking with the same go to each time. The heart of this matter is that when anyone tries to play devil's advocate and consider that there is more than one opinion in this scenario that has valid points, you begin to misquote/misinterpret and start mentioning things that stray from the point. Such as how you find someone's differing opinion on "fictional media" disgusting and dress down my opinion as senseless simply because you can't comprehend moral shades of gray. Your thought process is "You're either for me or against me", but I can't agree 100% with the article you posted from "Hulk" just as I can't agree 100% with you. I find the statement made in the article that Batman really enjoyed pushing Harley to be completely ridiculous and unfounded (as well as some other points made), but that doesn't discredit the thought that the language shift from the first game to the second is a curious one.

    I will once again state that I did not feel the game was sexist, nor was I personally offended by it. This didn't stop me from playing and loving the game, I simply can understand the other side of the argument.

    Would you have preferred they throw in 'whore' every now and again? Don't you see, for low-life thugs and criminals venting their frustration at being emasculated by a woman better and smarter than they are, 'bitch' is already softening it considerably.

    People who see the game as sexist because these characters are sexist are making one of the oldest mistakes in the book, and one that causes films and games and other media to be on the constant receiving end of non-sensical attacks without foundation from confused and self-righteous groups looking for scapegoats.

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    Jimbo

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    #50  Edited By Jimbo

    Good luck, have Batperson.

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