Continuing my attempt at cautious objectivism towards battlefield 3, I've been wondering why all of you people are so unhappy with there likely being only 4 classes in BF3 I really don't understand the draw, why not have 4 classes that are more balanced and better equipped towards actually winning the game than 7 or so where each is severely crippled in some area.  Too many times in BF2 have I had to try and find a way to kill a Tank with nothing but a hand grenade and a Light Machine gun, it doesn't work very well, in Bad Company 2, thats still a bit of an issue, but at least in BC2 almost everyone has a chance to face any challenge they may encounter.  
 
Ive heard claims of individuality! With 7 classes everyone has different job and does it well, isn't that great? But I can't see that happening, although thats sounds like great fun, teamwork is a passive experience for everyone who isn't in a clan or community, or who has friends willing to play every waking moment, you can't convince anyone you don't know to behave the way they don't want to, forcing them to choose from an array of crippled classes can be an issue if they don't behave as they should. Simple classes= a better chance everyone will do something useful, right?
         

Maybe more Kits will be for the Expansions?  >.> 
 
I heard Squads are in 4 too...if that's true, I'd understand 4 kits.

hey i'll keep repeating this til my hands go sore : 
 
 

People are going to bitch about anything that makes this game different than Battlefield 2.

I think 4 kits is fine, every roll in BF2 was covered by BC2's class system. 

Because they promote team work. 

• Special Forces - C4 specialist.  Could easily take out objectives (UAV station, artillery, etc.)
• Sniper - Long range cover fire.
• Assault - Overall soldier.
• Support - Medium range cover fire.  Could supply ammo.
• Engineer - Could fix vehicles and commander buildings.  Also had AT mines.
• Medic - Dropped health packs (which actually meant something with no recharging health) and could revive dead teammates.
• Anti-tank - AT specialist.  Could easily take out armor.

" I think 4 kits is fine, every roll in BF2 was covered by BC2's class system.  "

There's just no need for a 'C4 ninja kit', if 2 of 4 kits can go ninja. Maybe this time around, the ninja builds will have a silencer at their disposal too.
 
BF 2142 had 4 kits with 2 specialization branches each. Same lead designer as BF3 and BF:BC 2 too.
 
While BF:BC 2's kits aren't perfect, they support many more playstyles than just 4. With some customization tweaking, the 4 basic kit setup can be quite perfect.

" @B0nd07: Support/Engineer/Anti-Tank could be mixed around as one or two classes though.   "

Also - 'Pros' kit-swap. There's just no way 7 kits have a distinct value to them, making kit-swapping a hassle.
 
The 4 kit setup works perfectly for that aspect of gameplay. Easy and purposeful kit-swapping is enabled by the 4 basic kits design.

Because it's about teamwork and coordination, not being able to Rambo every situation yourself.  I think you could just about get away with rolling Assault/Spec Ops together, and Eng/AT together, but Medic and Support should be seperate.
 
edit: and class caps wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

Like others have noted, it's the perception of how it effects the team. Should there be more classes to get everyone to specialize and work together, or should there only be a pragmatic, small amount that hits all covers? I support the latter (even though I like looking at the different combination of kits), but I'd have to do a comparison between 2, BC2 and 3 to get the true feel.

" Because they promote team work. 

• Special Forces - C4 specialist.  Could easily take out objectives (UAV station, artillery, etc.)
• Sniper - Long range cover fire.
• Assault - Overall soldier.
• Support - Medium range cover fire.  Could supply ammo.
• Engineer - Could fix vehicles and commander buildings.  Also had AT mines.
• Medic - Dropped health packs (which actually meant something with no recharging health) and could revive dead teammates.
• Anti-tank - AT specialist.  Could easily take out armor.

 Merging almost all of them together just creates teams of snipers or medics who are more focused on their K/D ratio than actually completing objectives. "

"  I think you could just about get away with rolling Assault/Spec Ops together,"

" People are going to bitch about anything that makes this game different than Battlefield 2. "

" one heals and lays out covering fire "

" one replenishes ammo and can also c4 things  "

"  individuality and diversity and other words all in a nice line.  "

"i mean no its ruined forever bf3 suck dice sucks oh my life those pesky console players it's probably their fault too"

 have you played Battlefield 2 for 3-5 years ? then be quite 
i dont make fun of a console player when they bitch about a new Final Fantasy not having whatever the fuck it should have, because ive never played FF and dunno whether their demands are legit or not 
and if you HAVE played Battlefield 2 for years, and have run with alot of people on the battlefield and saw just how dynamic and mindblowing the teamwork can get when you have 7 different kits with 1 significant feature to each one, and you dont see a problem with four kits in such a huge game, may god have mercy on your soul. 

I don't wanna be able to take out tanks easily when I'm not playing as an Anti-Tanker.
 
But I will reserve my bitching until the game actually comes out, not going to get my panties in a bunch because of some goddamn NeoGaf post.

Individuality is really a thing that I definitely root for.

" @Spoonman671 said:

" People are going to bitch about anything that makes this game different than Battlefield 2. "

have you played Battlefield 2 for 3-5 years ? then be quite 
i dont make fun of a console player when they bitch about a new Final Fantasy not having whatever the fuck it should have, because ive never played FF and dunno whether their demands are legit or not 
and if you HAVE played Battlefield 2 for years, and have run with alot of people on the battlefield and saw just how dynamic and mindblowing the teamwork can get when you have 7 different kits with 1 significant feature to each one, and you dont see a problem with four kits in such a huge game, may god have mercy on your soul. 
 
  

 
@drag said:

" one heals and lays out covering fire "

that doesnt make sense 
 
 

" one replenishes ammo and can also c4 things  "

that also doesnt make sense. i dont see how you can be throwing around ammo for your teammates as they shoot at enemies AND handling C4 on a car or bridge or booby trapping a road at the same time.. you're not making any sense, my friend. 
 
 

"  individuality and diversity and other words all in a nice line.  "

i'm afraid your post is devoid of those things :( 
 
 
@drag said:

"i mean no its ruined forever bf3 suck dice sucks oh my life those pesky console players it's probably their fault too"

damn fucking straight. except for the last bit.. thats arguable.  "

"   while another guy, a totally seperate person??? is like being some kind of medical wizardy type guy?  "

"  and then another guy like ... gives out ammo AND blows the occasional piece of scenery up, both of which are apparently somehow supposed to be not occurring constantly, simultaneously, endlessly.  "

"

 have you played Battlefield 2 for 3-5 years ? then be quite 
i dont make fun of a console player when they bitch about a new Final Fantasy not having whatever the fuck it should have, because ive never played FF and dunno whether their demands are legit or not 
and if you HAVE played Battlefield 2 for years, and have run with alot of people on the battlefield and saw just how dynamic and mindblowing the teamwork can get when you have 7 different kits with 1 significant feature to each one, and you dont see a problem with four kits in such a huge game, may god have mercy on your soul. 

    Good to see the fan base is civil, welcoming and open minded. "

" @Otogi said:

"

 have you played Battlefield 2 for 3-5 years ? then be quite 
i dont make fun of a console player when they bitch about a new Final Fantasy not having whatever the fuck it should have, because ive never played FF and dunno whether their demands are legit or not 
and if you HAVE played Battlefield 2 for years, and have run with alot of people on the battlefield and saw just how dynamic and mindblowing the teamwork can get when you have 7 different kits with 1 significant feature to each one, and you dont see a problem with four kits in such a huge game, may god have mercy on your soul. 

    Good to see the fan base is civil, welcoming and open minded. "

im not gonna allow anyone to call me a mindless PC fanboy slash BF2 fanboy who will 'rage' over 'anything' that isnt the same as BF2 in BF3, which is what he said im not some brainless PC stereotype, so he had it coming. "

" How does that work then? Mr. xXxSNIPERZLOLxXx wants to hide in a bush with a hard scope and a harder erection, waiting two hours for that one headshot ... then suddenly he sees there's actually seven kits to choose from and holy fucking shit he's jumping on those objectives like an absolute champ. Can't stop him if you tried, the man's delirious!  "

" But no one plays those classes like that, you end up with 4 anti tank men on one side of the map trying to snipe with pistols while the objective that is being hammered by enemy armor has nothing but medics and snipers covering it without so much as a single explosive between them. You think too highly of the average Battlefield player.  "

I would at least like to see, Assault, Sniper, Engineer, Medic, and Support. 5 is all I'm asking, combine Spec. Ops and Assault and AT with Engineer. 

" @Otogi said:

"

 have you played Battlefield 2 for 3-5 years ? then be quite 
i dont make fun of a console player when they bitch about a new Final Fantasy not having whatever the fuck it should have, because ive never played FF and dunno whether their demands are legit or not 
and if you HAVE played Battlefield 2 for years, and have run with alot of people on the battlefield and saw just how dynamic and mindblowing the teamwork can get when you have 7 different kits with 1 significant feature to each one, and you dont see a problem with four kits in such a huge game, may god have mercy on your soul. 

    Good to see the fan base is civil, welcoming and open minded. "

im not gonna allow anyone to call me a mindless PC fanboy slash BF2 fanboy who will 'rage' over 'anything' that isnt the same as BF2 in BF3, which is what he said im not some brainless PC stereotype, so he had it coming. "

I'd like it if they added a Pilot Kit, to stop people from farming jets/heli.  >.>

What the fuck is wrong with people? 4 classes? MG carrying Medic? Holy fuck.

" Alright, but to be seriously just for a moment. Just like one tiny moment I promise ...  
 
What's the actual problem? In terms of gameplay. Because I think on a functioning level the number of classes makes zero difference whatsoever, if you need one guy throwing ammo out and one guy C4-ing something at the same time, you can have that going on, they just both have the assault kit selected. Is it an issue of squad size? Just because on massive maps you need bigger groups to get things done? Perhaps but that's not what we're talking about, and four classes does mean four man squads necessarily. We can complain about that later. 
 
Does it come down to, what? Basically seeing an icon on the map? Or just knowing, in some way or another, which players around you are using which equipment & therefore should be performing which roles? So if you see an anti-tank guy around, you can place some trust in him to sort out any armour coming down the road? Better teamwork etc.  
 
Because that can be really, really easily solved with a UI. Say there was only one kit - or no kits, I should say - you just pick everything from a list, but then your role, icon, appearance perhaps, changes based on whatever equipment you've got. Problem? 
 
Or are we really not breaking this down any further than seven classes are the best because of BF2.  "

@No0b0rAmA

" What the fuck is wrong with people? 4 classes? MG carrying Medic? Holy fuck. "

" Alright, but to be seriously just for a moment. Just like one tiny moment I promise ...  
 
What's the actual problem? In terms of gameplay. Because I think on a functioning level the number of classes makes zero difference whatsoever, if you need one guy throwing ammo out and one guy C4-ing something at the same time, you can have that going on, they just both have the assault kit selected. Is it an issue of squad size? Just because on massive maps you need bigger groups to get things done? Perhaps but that's not what we're talking about, and four classes does mean four man squads necessarily. We can complain about that later. 
 
Does it come down to, what? Basically seeing an icon on the map? Or just knowing, in some way or another, which players around you are using which equipment & therefore should be performing which roles? So if you see an anti-tank guy around, you can place some trust in him to sort out any armour coming down the road? Better teamwork etc.  
 
Because that can be really, really easily solved with a UI. Say there was only one kit - or no kits, I should say - you just pick everything from a list, but then your role, icon, appearance perhaps, changes based on whatever equipment you've got. Problem? 
 
Or are we really not breaking this down any further than seven classes are the best because of BF2.  "

 

@No0b0rAmA

said:

" What the fuck is wrong with people? 4 classes? MG carrying Medic? Holy fuck. "

That post was a waste of bandwith, could I get some support with that argument? Unless we're arguing the physical ability of a soldier trained in medical care to lift a Light machine gun.   "

" @No0b0rAmA: So ... custom classes? Problem solved? Everyone's happy and crying and holding each other, dancing in the street?  "

" @drag said:

" @No0b0rAmA: So ... custom classes? Problem solved? Everyone's happy and crying and holding each other, dancing in the street?  "

But you would need perks to go along with it. And no fucking way will DICE have perks in that game. "

" @No0b0rAmA said:

" @drag said:

" @No0b0rAmA: So ... custom classes? Problem solved? Everyone's happy and crying and holding each other, dancing in the street?  "

But you would need perks to go along with it. And no fucking way will DICE have perks in that game. "

Also, it should have blue tiger camouflage weapon skins, and killstreaks.  These games absolutely NEED killstreaks!   (please note sarcasm) "

" @B0nd07 said: 

 Merging almost all of them together just creates teams of snipers or medics who are more focused on their K/D ratio than actually completing objectives. "

How does that work then? Mr. xXxSNIPERZLOLxXx wants to hide in a bush with a hard scope and a harder erection, waiting two hours for that one headshot ... then suddenly he sees there's actually seven kits to choose from and holy fucking shit he's jumping on those objectives like an absolute champ. Can't stop him if you tried, the man's delirious!  "

More than 4 is redundant. All you need is medic guy, assault man, explosives dude, and camper scumbag asshole. Done. 

" @Spoonman671 said:

" @No0b0rAmA said:

" @drag said:

" @No0b0rAmA: So ... custom classes? Problem solved? Everyone's happy and crying and holding each other, dancing in the street?  "

But you would need perks to go along with it. And no fucking way will DICE have perks in that game. "

Also, it should have blue tiger camouflage weapon skins, and killstreaks.  These games absolutely NEED killstreaks!   (please note sarcasm) "

Would you buy this game with weapon camouflage and kill streaks? "

" Alright, but to be seriously just for a moment. Just like one tiny moment I promise ...  
 
What's the actual problem? In terms of gameplay. Because I think on a functioning level the number of classes makes zero difference whatsoever, if you need one guy throwing ammo out and one guy C4-ing something at the same time, you can have that going on, they just both have the assault kit selected. Is it an issue of squad size? Just because on massive maps you need bigger groups to get things done? Perhaps but that's not what we're talking about, and four classes does mean four man squads necessarily. We can complain about that later. 
 
Does it come down to, what? Basically seeing an icon on the map? Or just knowing, in some way or another, which players around you are using which equipment & therefore should be performing which roles? So if you see an anti-tank guy around, you can place some trust in him to sort out any armour coming down the road? Better teamwork etc.  
 
Because that can be really, really easily solved with a UI. Say there was only one kit - or no kits, I should say - you just pick everything from a list, but then your role, icon, appearance perhaps, changes based on whatever equipment you've got. Problem? 
 
Or are we really not breaking this down any further than seven classes are the best because of BF2.  "

" @Spoonman671 said:

" People are going to bitch about anything that makes this game different than Battlefield 2. "

have you played Battlefield 2 for 3-5 years ? then be quite 
i dont make fun of a console player when they bitch about a new Final Fantasy not having whatever the fuck it should have, because ive never played FF and dunno whether their demands are legit or not 
and if you HAVE played Battlefield 2 for years, and have run with alot of people on the battlefield and saw just how dynamic and mindblowing the teamwork can get when you have 7 different kits with 1 significant feature to each one, and you dont see a problem with four kits in such a huge game, may god have mercy on your soul.   

I have not played BF2, but I have played BF2142, and the 4 kits thing there worked great, getting sniped there was far less frustrating then in BC2.
 
Also, by the lov of god, don't make the rpgs like Carl Gustav is in BC2 (yes I use that exploit as well, but that is not the point!).
 
So my point is, I am positive to 4 kits, with the possibility to specialize, just like bf2142.

kinda sucks.