How Should the Helicopters Handle?

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#1 Edited by Donos (1197 posts) -

So... I've always heard that the Helicopter control in Battlefield is ridiculously impossible, in Battlefield 2 in particular, though I never really tried it. Then I played Bad Company 2 on consoles and I thought those controls were just about perfect. Yesterday, I tried out a helicoper in Battlefield Play4Free on PC and DUDE WTF IS UP WITH THESE CONTROLS? After 360-ing a blackhawk across the entire damn ocean from an aircraft carrier, I flipped upsidedown and crashed on the beach. The mouse control manages to be too slow and too fast at the same time, and completely unintuitive.

 

Now, I'll be getting Battlefield 3 on PC and I really need to know, what's going to happen with the Helicopter controls. I know the information isn't out yet, but do you expect them to control like in Bad Company or Battlefield 2/P4F? Were there even any differences between the two on PC? Am I completely screwed?

#2 Posted by MikkaQ (10346 posts) -

I guess I'll have to whip out the joystick. 

#3 Edited by Marz (5677 posts) -

The solution for me has always been to use a gamepad when i go into an aircraft on PC Battlefield games.
Though i hear alot of people use just keyboard buttons to fly aircraft and not use the mouse at all.

#4 Posted by npeterson08 (502 posts) -

I feel like terrible vehicle controls have been a staple for the Battlefield games. Plus, I really enjoy seeing military vehicles being used by complete novices and 12-year-olds.

#5 Posted by Ramone (2981 posts) -

I thought the controls for the choppers and planes were fine in BF2

#6 Edited by Donos (1197 posts) -

@Marz:
@XII_Sniper:

Has that been an option? To switch to joystick or gamepad when you hop into an aircraft? I still have my joystick from Starlancer sitting around gathering dust.

#7 Posted by EpicSteve (6500 posts) -

It needs to be stupid-hard. Then when you actually find a pilot, you desperately attempt to get him into your clan. 

#8 Posted by TooWalrus (13258 posts) -

On the 360 version, they should let me import my Grunty Killer from Banjo-Kazooie. Let me shoot lasers and grenade eggs from my helicopter.

#9 Posted by Marz (5677 posts) -
@Donos said:
"

@Marz:
@XII_Sniper:

Has that been an option? To switch to joystick or gamepad when you hop into an aircraft? I still have my joystick from Starlancer sitting around gathering dust.

"
Yes it's been an option.
#10 Edited by Donos (1197 posts) -
@Marz said:
" @Donos said:
"

@Marz:
@XII_Sniper:

Has that been an option? To switch to joystick or gamepad when you hop into an aircraft? I still have my joystick from Starlancer sitting around gathering dust.

"
Yes it's been an option. "

I guess to be more specific, can it be set to only use those when piloting an aircraft? Not when driving or using a turret?
#11 Posted by B0nd07 (1703 posts) -

It's been a while since I've flown in BF2, but I think BF2 and BC2 are pretty similar handling wise.  They're really not too bad once you get used to them.  Personally, I've used the same controls for flying since my days with BF1942; W/S for throttle, A/D for rudder or rotation, Up/Down for pitch, Left/Right for roll, and space and num-zero for fire and alt-fire.  I'll occasionally switch to the mouse for more precise aiming (like for a strafing run).  I wouldn't mind if they handle roughly the same.

#12 Posted by Twisted_Scot (1180 posts) -

If your playing BF2 on PC you could set up your controls for each vehicle so you could have game pad for Air vehicles and keyboard / mouse for others, that's what I used to do anyways. Id guess the option will return in BF3.

#13 Posted by PhatSeeJay (3322 posts) -

I'm glad if they control like they did in BF2 and BF Vietnam. If I want to be able to nosedive or attempt a loop, possible or not, I want that possibility.
Could do some real sweet moves with a Huey or Black Hawk back in the days.

#14 Posted by Donos (1197 posts) -
@PhatSeeJay said:
"I'm glad if they control like they did in BF2 and BF Vietnam. If I want to be able to nosedive or attempt a loop, possible or not, I want that possibility. Could do some real sweet moves with a Huey or Black Hawk back in the days. "

That's it? Go play the Bad Company games and do an electric slide up a crane to dodge missiles.
#15 Posted by big_jon (5809 posts) -

BC 2 style.

#16 Posted by mmzOne (278 posts) -

I'd be happy if they controlled in similar fashion as DCS: Black Shark. Though that could be a bit much for your average COD player.

#17 Posted by SomeJerk (3454 posts) -

That one BF mod that everybody but me played: Helicopter controls that seemed like bunnyhopping, the ones who could do it were elitist about it

BFV: Doable

BF2: Decent

BC2: Really bad on the PC even if you plug in a dual analogue stick, and completely different on consoles

Hope to see a full reworking of it or a BF2 but iumproved. On the console the only threats to helicopters were mistakes. On the PC you need engineering on your ass and a smoke launcher to come close, and even then you won't have anything like the movement abilities of a console BC2 helicopter.

#18 Posted by Soapy86 (2625 posts) -
@EpicSteve said:
" It needs to be stupid-hard. Then when you actually find a pilot, you desperately attempt to get him into your clan.  "
I would go the other direction. It needs to be stupid-easy. That way you'll never see someone get into a helicopter and crash it two seconds later. 
#19 Posted by Patman99 (1633 posts) -

I hope they are just as hard to use as the previous battlefield games. It separates the wheat from the chaff. Making the controls hard to use in a way guarantees that the helicopter will only be piloted by a veteran who knows how to play the game. In all seriousness, difficult flying controls is what I associate with Battlefield and it would not feel the same if anyone could pilot a helicopter.


Also, I always felt that the battlefield games really emphasized players playing a role. Be that medic, engineer, support, whatever, every person had a role to fill. In some cases, you were good enough to be a pilot. This meant that there were lots of people just running for the helicopter only to crash it right away but this also meant that there was an elite few that could pilot you into the most hard to reach areas and then offer air support like a boss. Having an experienced pilot in BF2 or BF2142 was an absolute asset.
#20 Edited by PhatSeeJay (3322 posts) -
@Donos said:

" @PhatSeeJay said:

"I'm glad if they control like they did in BF2 and BF Vietnam. If I want to be able to nosedive or attempt a loop, possible or not, I want that possibility. Could do some real sweet moves with a Huey or Black Hawk back in the days. "
That's it? Go play the Bad Company games and do an electric slide up a crane to dodge missiles. "
I am not sure what that has anything to do with how I prefer my helicopter controls?

@somejerk said:

" That one BF mod that everybody but me played: Helicopter controls that seemed like bunnyhopping, the ones who could do it were elitist about itBFV: DoableBF2: DecentBC2: Really bad on the PC even if you plug in a dual analogue stick, and completely different on consolesHope to see a full reworking of it or a BF2 but iumproved. On the console the only threats to helicopters were mistakes. On the PC you need engineering on your ass and a smoke launcher to come close, and even then you won't have anything like the movement abilities of a console BC2 helicopter. "

Agreed. I can fly a helicopter competently in the PC version of Bad Company 2 but it was just not offering the same roll and pitch control like BF2. Though I can see how it's a good one on the console, given how it seems to be designed for a controller.
I like how it requires some practice to control the chopper in BF2 and Vietnam, because when you do, it's very precise in its movement. Sure I had to spend 30 minutes in Singleplayer to practice without costing the lives of team mates, but it payed off.

I liked the role I had as either a dedicated medic or transport pilot.
#21 Edited by Donos (1197 posts) -

@Patman99: The difference is that anyone can play the named classes. Locking most of the audience out of aircraft with poor controls is just bad game design. A role is a state of mind and a choice of strategy, it shouldn't be determined by mechanical practice or hardware that some people just don't have.

 

If you go and play the Bad Company games on console, there is still a huge divide between a good pilot and a bad pilot. The good pilots are just rewarded for acting like pilots, not for spending a thousand hours practicing with the button inputs DICE decided should emulate a helicopter.

#22 Posted by WindFall259 (370 posts) -

Yeah, those controls are hard but they're meant for optimal maneuverability. Once you got it down and know where to go, you're almost virtually unstoppable. I say leave it to the crazy ass people who have dedicated joysticks just for those helicopters.

#23 Posted by SomeJerk (3454 posts) -
@PhatSeeJay said:
 "Agreed. I can fly a helicopter competently in the PC version of Bad Company 2 but it was just not offering the same roll and pitch control like BF2. Though I can see how it's a good one on the console, given how it seems to be designed for a controller.I like how it requires some practice to control the chopper in BF2 and Vietnam, because when you do, it's very precise in its movement. Sure I had to spend 30 minutes in Singleplayer to practice without costing the lives of team mates, but it payed off.I liked the role I had as either a dedicated medic or transport pilot. "
Extremely important point right here. Counting on DICE to deliver what we need for singleplayer practice. (Someone with Twitter should ask them right away, or just go "Hey, learning to fly in BC2 kinda sucks since it's MP only, care to help?")
#24 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

I've never had a helicopter control as terribly as in that Battlefield Modern Combat game for the 360. 


Rule of thumb for the developers; if it's easier to fly an actual helicopter than the one in your game, you're doing it wrong.
#25 Posted by Donos (1197 posts) -
@somejerk: That's a good point, though it should be treated carefully. BC1 really messed with me, because the helicopter in singleplayer had completely different controls from multiplayer. In singleplayer the helicopter was basically a dual-joystick shooter where you didn't lose altitude for pointing down.
#26 Posted by PhatSeeJay (3322 posts) -
@somejerk said:

" @PhatSeeJay said:

 "Agreed. I can fly a helicopter competently in the PC version of Bad Company 2 but it was just not offering the same roll and pitch control like BF2. Though I can see how it's a good one on the console, given how it seems to be designed for a controller.I like how it requires some practice to control the chopper in BF2 and Vietnam, because when you do, it's very precise in its movement. Sure I had to spend 30 minutes in Singleplayer to practice without costing the lives of team mates, but it payed off.I liked the role I had as either a dedicated medic or transport pilot. "

Extremely important point right here. Counting on DICE to deliver what we need for singleplayer practice. (Someone with Twitter should ask them right away, or just go "Hey, learning to fly in BC2 kinda sucks since it's MP only, care to help?") "
Well so long you can create servers yourself, you can always lock a private server and run on your own. There are always ways. :)
  
  Damn.. Now I want to go back and fly some BF2 choppers. :)
#27 Posted by CaptainCody (1525 posts) -

Piloting is definitely something, as Steve said, that I feel should be hard. I thought the flying was great in BC2, though a learning curve was absolutely present. As a result, it was always fun to see someone hop into a chopper with the expectation of smooth sailing only to come crashing down into a building. Vice-versa for those whom piloted vehicles extremely well.
#28 Posted by Seppli (10250 posts) -

I hope for native 360 pad support for BF3, just because it's possible (and should have been in BF:BC 2 too) and I'd definitely use a gamepad over KB&M for vehicles and turrets.

I can do unspeakable things with choppers on a gamepad. Helicopter lovemaking so advanced, you'd orgasm instantly at the first sight of my artistry - collapsing soonafter a lifeless husk having climaxed in life and fulfilled your purpose.

So yeah - give me perfect gamepad support for vehicles and I'm goooood.

#29 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

I never understood the hate for the battlefield aircraft controls. They always felt intuitive to me. BFBC2 was inverted from BF2 by default I believe though, which kind of flipped my shit (literally) when I started out.

#30 Posted by dragonzord (823 posts) -

Saint's Row 2. Simple and effective


then if you want a realistic helicopter flight thing, you pick up a flying game
#31 Edited by Donos (1197 posts) -

@Jack268: The problem, I think, is that pitch and roll have a center point where the aircraft is level. You need that center point, and stick controls naturally reach that point when you just let go. It's intuitive and simple. On a mouse, there is no center point so it's difficult to stop rolling.

 

My experience from Play4Free was that I would want to just flatten out, but there's no indication of how far back I have to move the mouse to do that. I couldn't really feel it out either, since it takes several seconds for movements to really take effect, hence heavy oversteering.

#32 Edited by Sjupp (1916 posts) -

Man, I was either freakishly good at it or you are all wrong. My memories of BF2 is that driving a helicopter was the easiest vehicle to maneuver. Also, who steers with a mouse? You use wasd + arrow keys at the same time. One set for each hand. Works like a charm. At BC2, it's way easier to steer a heli with a gamepad rather than a keyboard.

edit: man I sound like a dick. I stand my ground nonetheless. I do like Somejerks suggestion though.

#33 Edited by AhmadMetallic (18954 posts) -

i did wonders in the helos and jets of BF2 v1.0 (slightly modded).  since i got 1.5, ive been trying to get into a helo and try it out, but that version is so dead and dry that it feels like it has no air vehicles whatsoever .. (because there's only like 2 and they're always occupied)
so im a long time BF2 fan who knows nothing about BF2 helos.. damn thats sad

#34 Posted by Jayross (2365 posts) -

Bad Company 2 had way too much "auto-pilot" for the choppers. It felt like the player only had access to half of the controls and the other half was being managed by the computer.

I think that's fine... but it would have been nice to unlock a "pro pilot mode" after accumulating a certain amount of hours in a helicopter.

#35 Posted by jayjonesjunior (1087 posts) -

  

#36 Edited by PhatSeeJay (3322 posts) -
@Jayross said:

" Bad Company 2 had way too much "auto-pilot" for the choppers. It felt like the player only had access to half of the controls and the other half was being managed by the computer. I think that's fine... but it would have been nice to unlock a "pro pilot mode" after accumulating a certain amount of hours in a helicopter. "

I'm with you there. An accessible controller setting so everyone can fly a chopper. But also a fully unlocked scheme for the ones who want to master the machine's abilities unhindered by auto-pilot functions.
Would mean less crashing while also asking people to practice and improve to reach full battle capability.
#37 Posted by onarum (2387 posts) -

I say it should handle like the ones in Desert Combat :P, so freaking hard that when you finally manage to stay airborne for more than 10 minutes you feel like you've accomplished something awesome.

#38 Posted by kalakov (85 posts) -

It should be like it was in Desert Combat...

#39 Posted by KaosAngel (13764 posts) -

If the Heli can fly easily with a KB+M, DICE is doing it wrong.  

The Jets and Heli should be best played with the sticks.

#40 Posted by fox01313 (5089 posts) -

As I can never get the bloody things to fly myself I tend to stick to ground vehicles/boats. I popped back into Battlefield2 recently (normal BF2 & Special Forces), the few times I managed to get the helicopter in the air it always tends to be flying upside down, on fire, stolen by someone else moments before getting to it, ect. that I've learned my lesson. Even on the few times I get the helicopter to work & not have it getting shot down I usually just aim it at something to try to blow it up & pray that the parachute opens up.

 

I really do hope that with BF3 that the maps are like the size of BF2 & wondering if they are going to put back in some of the special forces or other expansion gameplay in there as Bad Company 1 & 2 is fun but the gameplay modes/variety is quite lacking.

#41 Posted by Donos (1197 posts) -

Well, I broke out my decade-old joystick and mapped the Play4Free flight controls onto it. It was an improvement, in that after some messing around I was able to fly the helicopter all the way from the aircraft carrier to shore before crashing. I think the problem is that I'm used to the quick rolls from Bad Company, to turn instead of relying on rudder. I guess the Play4Free (and probably Battlefield 3) model is more realistic, whatever that means.
#42 Posted by DuhQbnSiLo (2139 posts) -
@EpicSteve said:
" It needs to be stupid-hard. Then when you actually find a pilot, you desperately attempt to get him into your clan.  "
i would love this
#43 Posted by GreyFox (138 posts) -

Operation Flashpoint style. The original OF, not the new one. Was most fun I had with helicopters, but it will never happen.

#44 Posted by silverkripto (3 posts) -

I found that using the arrow keys on the keyboard to be very effective in flying helicopters in Battlefield 2. Its very easy to dodge missiles and maneuver through risky environments such as under bridges, docking in the back of a carrier, flying very low to the ground, maneuvering through buildings and etc. Practicing for about 30 mins should make you an expert :) i found it much much harder using a mouse or a joystick.

#45 Posted by cap123 (2477 posts) -

I like the challenging controls of the older games really, it means you actually have to practice and a good pilot gets a certain amount of respect from it. And a well practiced pilot will always win against a lesser one.

#46 Posted by Meteora (5789 posts) -

The helicopter should always handle like shit with keyboard and mouse. My recommendation is to just get a joystick or use a gamepad like the 360 controller (which I plan to do).

#47 Posted by PerryVandell (2110 posts) -

It should be a challenge to learn how to fly a chopper in Battlefield 3, but not something that isn't penetrable to newcomers. 

#48 Posted by Mikemcn (7065 posts) -

Same as Bad Company 2

#49 Posted by JasonR86 (9742 posts) -

They should handle well.

Online
#50 Posted by Tennmuerti (8175 posts) -

Like flying coffins.

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