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    Battlefield 3

    Game » consists of 15 releases. Released Oct 25, 2011

    Battlefield 3 is DICE's third numerical installment in the Battlefield franchise. It features a single player and co-operative campaign, as well as an extensive multiplayer component.

    Let's remember BF2 and take a look forward...

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    easthill

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    #1  Edited By easthill

    To kick this of, let me say that I loved BF2 - played it thousands of hours.

    Now, just because I loved it doesn't mean it's perfect, it's actually far from it.

    Seeing as we are looking forward to BF3, let's take a look at what BF2 improved over its predecessor, BF1942 (Not Vietnam, that's like saying BF3 is a sequel to 2142.) And how BF3 could improve over BF2. As always, my opinion.

    • The map sizes were pretty much the same.
    • The player count were exactly the same.
    • The same types of vehicles, only they broke the air combat.
    • Removed the submarine, controllable aircraft carriers and battleships and the stationary artillery.

    Wait, what did they actually add?

    • 2 more kits, the only useful kits were still medic and anti-tank.
    • The squad system and the commander.
    • The helicopters.
    • Broken-as-all-hell net code
    • Streamlined the communication tools. (let's call making it more ACCESSIBLE, or DUMBED DOWN FOR THE CASUALS. Gasp!)

    These things are what I want to talk about. With nostalgia being such an amazing thing, all these features were PERFECT! Right?

    No, they wasn't.

    Let me start with the kits, or classes if I may.

    Spec Ops, Sniper, Assault, Support, Engineer, Medic and Anti-Tank.

    • Spec Ops had a weaker gun than everyone and C4. C4 was fun for a while until DICE patched it all to hell, removing the 'chucking' technique. Thus making it a useless class compared to the Anti-Tank.
    • The sniper with his fancy wookie costume. Who the fuck plays snipers? Claymore-whores. Suicidal lunatics tossing claymores right infront of you hoping to kill you. Fuck that class. Fun fact, the most useful thing a sniper didwas teamkilling for choppers. See, with the M95 you could shoot through the glass - the 'noob-ejector' was born.
    • Assault, a medic with a tiny bit more health, the introduction of the 'noob-tube' and no healing kit or shock paddles. Why would I play this rather than the medic?
    • Support. Will block out the sun with nade-spamming. Not really a useless class, but I have never in my thousands of hours ran out of ammo...
    • Engineer. The wrench was usefull, sometimes.
    • Medics were fucking invincible, escpescially teamed with an Anti-Tank or two. 'Nuff said.
    • Anti-Tank - essential when dealing with vehicles. Also fun sniping with the SRAW and ERYX.

    As you clearly can see, 2-3 classes is all that is needed - so how is 4 too few? Escpecially when you can customize the class... With BF3 on the doorsteps people raged over the news that there would only be 4 classes. That is a stupid and narrow minded way to look at it. 4 customizble classes is more than 7 useless static classes. BF3 ain't necessarily upping the stakes on everything as much as it is refining them.

    The Squads.

    The squads was a great idea, it really was. Made it easier to organize a small functioning fire team consisting of medics and anti-tanks. Heres a breakdown for you.

    Each squad consisted of 6 players maximum. One dedicated squad leader, and the rest measly squad members. Squad members could spawn on the squadleader, the squadleader had to spawn at a base/flag. At least that was how it was supposed to work. But when the squad leader died, he could rejoin the squad and spawn on the new squad leader. Thus, in practice making it just like Bad Company 2. The only difference was only the skillfull players knew about and exploited this, making it kind of a big advantage - unkillable squads and all that. Now everybody can do this.

    Another thing is 6 players working together could pretty much overrun anything they faced on a regular public server, thus making it a tiny bit unbalanced.

    I understand the 4-player limit of BF3, and stand fully behind it. Tell me how wrong I am.

    The commander.

    Fuck that guy, won't miss him.

    Should probably explain a bit. Every asset the commander has can be placed elsewhere. Artillery, UAV and supplies. BC2 did a fine job with this, and BF3 could only do it better. Why this is a problem I can't fathom.

    The Airforce.

    Excuse me for a while, this paragraph doesn't have very much to do with BF3, other than this: They can't possibly make it worse than BF2.

    Ah, the helicopters. How I love and loathe thee.

    I was an all around helicopter whore. The most lethal weapon on the Battlefield.

    Three words for you. Sharqi Peninsula Massacre. Three more, Mashtuur City Massacre.

    I don't think they playtested this one bit. The blackhawk in 1.0 was fucking invincible. Pilot, 2 gunners, 2-3 three engineers. Each gunner could get upwards of 100 kills each round - sometimes more, meaning 100 assist for everyone in the heli, the engineers repaired as madmen, also earning assists for everyone. The pilot was squad leader and a medic - healing and a mobile spawn point. I went one round with 192-1 in K/D, the one death came from the stuping pilot ramming a building.

    No fucking way DICE play tested this. After I while they nerfed it, but I'll allways miss those glorious days of chopper whoring on Mastuur. After the nerfing the blackhawk became useless, an empty shell of its previous self.

    Tell you one thing that wasn't nerfed? The Mi-28 Havoc on Sharqi Peninsula. Went plenty of 150-0 rounds in that one too. Broken as all hell. You see, at the beginning it was impossible to shoot down aerial vehicles seeing as the Anti-Air was busted, due to the net code - which I'll talk about now.

    I don't need to talk about the J-10, anyone who's ever played Wake Island know what I'm talking about. The dog fighting in BF2 was tragic compared to 1942 and Desert Combat. Based not as much as skill and reflexes as which plane you happen to be in. The F-35b was the worst, with the MIG-29 coming second behind the J-10, a space ship from the future, dodging missiles while flying in a straight line. As I said, they can't possible fuck it up more.

    One thing they can't replicate is the dog fights from 1942, just because modern combat has jets. Not cool planes. With just cool machine guns. And no lame rockets.

    The netcode.

    The netcode is largely still kind of janky. Making some players nigh unkillable if they knew how to move. The hitbox you see, was a slow fuck, allways lagging behind you, making you die after you actually passed that corner and dove to safety - but no, the hitbox was still behind you making those bullets do a 90 degree turn. I've seen Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops get hate for their net code, but never BF2. MW2 is fucking perfect compared to BF2.

    When you headshot someone in BF2, a white cloud of dust appears to signal you that infact, that was a headshot. Now, most weapons kill in one headshot. The M16, M4 and MP5 pretty much being the exceptions. So when you see those clouds appear, you should have killed that sucker. But no.

    And there was this handy thing called 'usersettings.con', which if edited correctly made you pretty much unhittable. Balanced, yo.

    The other thing was the Ground to Air missiles, the Air to Air missles, the pretty much every missile. SRAWs would often pass right through enemy vehicles, even when standing still. The A2A and G2A missiles would never hit, making it pretty easy to stay alive in the skies.

    I can't imagine them not doing a better job in BF3.

    Epilogue.

    Now, before you chew my balls of - I still love BF2, wouldn't have played it so much if I didn't. But I'm not brainwashed by nostalgia either. Also remember that this is my opinion.

    Compared to the transition from 1942 too BF2, this transition looks a hell of a lot more exciting. Nothing seems to be cut, like the big vehicles from 1942. But rather refined and added.

    So what was the point of this post? I don't really know, it got lost somewhere. But I want people to remember BF2, not with rose tinted glasses. But what it was. A fantastic game, being brilliant and broken at the same time. BC2 was also a fantastic game, smaller scale than BF2 sure, but a better game. If DICE can take what they learned with BC2 and apply it too BF3 - we're in for a treat.

    So, the future. I've seen the trailers to the game. A couple of leaked gameplay clips. I wont see more. It's Alpha. Things will change. I don't have a mental image of what the game should be, or will be when It's out. I'll buy it, I'll play it and if past experiences is an indication - I'll love it. The last thing I'd do is berate the game before playing it.

    I do know what I don't want, another BF2.

    No, what I want is a better BF2, and I have no doubt in my mind that DICE is the right people for the task. Call me optimistic and naive, but DICE know what I want - hopefully, and I have faith in them to deliver. I'm not the only fan of this franchise, I don't expect them to tailor the game to me and me alone, unlike some other people....

    So I ask. Is it possible to look forward to a game without threads like "Biggest dissapointment ever" and "Total Joke"? There's so much anger.

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    AhmadMetallic

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    #2  Edited By AhmadMetallic

    I have been quite puzzled ever since i read some of the replies to my latest BF3 thread. 
    I need someone to tell me what the consensus is on the definition of the word "improvement" so i can reply to this thread correctly, because some of the most horrendous features have been described as improvements by some people 
     
    So what do you mean when you say "improvement" ? 

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    EuanDewar

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    #3  Edited By EuanDewar

    No, please, for the love of god, No.

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    RaikohBlade

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    #4  Edited By RaikohBlade

    Nostalgia is indeed a big factor when comparing the old with the new. But you know what, even if the new game is better, some people would rather play a nostalgic game. Games that hold emotional value for people, games that people remember playing "back in the day" will always have an edge on newer games. This of course sounds completely illogical, but emotions are not grounded in logic. 

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    Cloudenvy

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    #5  Edited By Cloudenvy

    What's up with today and these Battlefield 3 threads?

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    emergency

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    #6  Edited By emergency

    Let's not let it spiral into the same disgusting depth's as the other one. Keep it clean, try not to argue or I'll put you in the padded white room. Now I shall actually read your thread. I think you know what an improvement is, it's something which makes the game better.

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    RandomInternetUser

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    I agree with many of the things you said.  Good, thought-out post.

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    easthill

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    #8  Edited By easthill

    @Ahmad_Metallic said:

    I have been quite puzzled ever since i read some of the replies to my latest BF3 thread. I need someone to tell me what the consensus is on the definition of the word "improvement" so i can reply to this thread correctly, because some of the most horrendous features have been described as improvements by some people So what do you mean when you say "improvement" ?

    After reading through your "Turning out to be a joke" thread I wont try to convince you, only to hold off the complaint until you've actually played it. In alpha, beta or retail state.

    Now I will go to bed, have to get myself to work in the morning so I can afford a new PC to play this game.

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    deactivated-6281db536cb1d

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    I agree with pretty much everything that was said.

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    bill

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    #10  Edited By bill

    i hope they dont fuck up with every patch just like they did in bf2. for the love of god please.

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    deactivated-6281db536cb1d

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    @easthill: An improvement is something that makes a game more fun to the majority of players.

    If an attempt to streamline something is disliked by the majority of players, its likely not an improvement. If it is something that is liked by the majority of players, it is an improvement.

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    white

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    #12  Edited By white

    And this is why 2142 is superior.
     
    Don't got no jet whoring in that game. Not as extreme anyway.

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    phonics

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    #13  Edited By phonics
    @allworkandlowpay: Yeah too bad the majority of players today are a bunch of 14 year old's who like pop-a-mole gameplay that doesn't take any thought or skill.
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    deactivated-6281db536cb1d

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    @Phonics: Requiring a specific level of "skill" doesn't necessarily make a game better or more fun. It's irrelevant.

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    jorbear

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    #15  Edited By jorbear

    Ahmad vs. Easthill

    The fight of the century.

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    Twisted_Scot

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    #16  Edited By Twisted_Scot

    I want a variation on the Titan from 2142. Something along the likes of having 1 map near the sea where (like in past BF games) you can control an aircraft carrier but it is a mobile control point in some game types and like the Titian it is an objective (similar to Rush and 2142) in others. I think this could change the play up a little and make boats more useful. I'm not saying on all maps but it would be a nice gimmick for 1 map.

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    TheHBK

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    #17  Edited By TheHBK

    Ahh memories.  It really makes me wonder what people expect from BF3 besides the graphics.  I mean, MW3 will have its problems but BF2 was not perfect.  For me the appeal was that it was really big.  And you could plant C4 on a chopper, see it take off with a lot of people then blow it up.  Or plant some C4 on a plane and watch someone get into it and then blow it up.  All while you hear your teammates yelling at you for setting the team back.  Good times.

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    Twisted_Scot

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    #18  Edited By Twisted_Scot
    @TheHBK: Lol yeah the C4 was fun. Stick it a jeep and drive it into an enemy base suicide style. I just liked being able to sneak into the enemy base and steal / C4 their planes. *Sigh, they don't let me in their bases anymore :(
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    QKT

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    #19  Edited By QKT
    @easthill said:

    @Ahmad_Metallic said:

    I have been quite puzzled ever since i read some of the replies to my latest BF3 thread. I need someone to tell me what the consensus is on the definition of the word "improvement" so i can reply to this thread correctly, because some of the most horrendous features have been described as improvements by some people So what do you mean when you say "improvement" ?

    After reading through your "Turning out to be a joke" thread I wont try to convince you, only to hold off the complaint until you've actually played it. In alpha, beta or retail state.

    Now I will go to bed, have to get myself to work in the morning so I can afford a new PC to play this game.

    i applaud you good sir.
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    mikeeegeee

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    #20  Edited By mikeeegeee
    @easthill said:


    No, they wasn't.

    I admit, after reading this I laughed so hard that I lost focus and stopped reading. I can't tell if this was written in earnest, or in some sort of... stylish vernacular.
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    AhmadMetallic

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    #21  Edited By AhmadMetallic
    @easthill:  Wow.. i'm really sorry that you have such a fucked up relationship with a game you supposedly love, and I don't blame you for your hate, I happened to be fortunate enough to play on modded servers that enhanced certain aspects of the game slightly, balancing them in the process and making them more fun 
    examples: Balancing the jet rape by cranking up the AT rockets damage a little. Making each of the 7 classes helpful yet not too sucky, but limited the nade spamming, balancing the C4 so its not too weak or too powerful, watering down the noob tube a little, making the vehicles faster and making the sprinting infinite. 
     
    Seriously, days like this, i thank the gods i stumbled upon those modded servers and having probably the most refined vanilla experience possible. 
     

    As you clearly can see, 2-3 classes is all that is needed - so how is 4 too few? Escpecially when you can customize the class... With BF3 on the doorsteps people raged over the news that there would only be 4 classes. That is a stupid and narrow minded way to look at it. 4 customizble classes is more than 7 useless static classes. BF3 ain't necessarily upping the stakes on everything as much as it is refining them.

    Though i did just say that I had a different experience where every kit was balanced and served a purpose, hey, fuck it, BF3's 4 customizable classes sound amazing 
      
    About the rest of your points, I agree that they weren't the best systems in the world, but again, they were extremely enhanced in my modded experience. 
    However, you did forget to compare the commanders' and squad leaders' major commanding roles and extensive commanding interfaces in BF2 to BF3's mute squad leaders who have no command interfaces to use whatsoever.  
     
     
    Good read, man. 
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    piropeople13

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    #22  Edited By piropeople13

    Never played BC2 (didn't run on my Geforce 4).  Thanks for the retrospective.

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    wolf_blitzer85

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    #23  Edited By wolf_blitzer85

    Ooh! Ooh! Team Fortress 2 X Battlefield 3.

    Ohhhh yeah.

    Edit: Oh and Battlefield dudes write a fuck ton. Interesting read though. Still wondering how the hell this game will turn out.

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    easthill

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    #24  Edited By easthill

    @Ahmad_Metallic said:

    Seriously, days like this, i thank the gods i stumbled upon those modded servers and having probably the most refined vanilla experience possible.

    I'm not basing my Battlefield experience on modded servers who only a few have experienced and can relate to. Oh, and modded vanilla ain't really vanilla, is it?

    @Ahmad_Metallic said:

    However, you did forget to compare the commanders' and squad leaders' major commanding roles and extensive commanding interfaces in BF2 to BF3's mute squad leaders who have no command interfaces to use whatsoever.

    We've argued this point before. On your side of the fence theses 'supposedly' amazing commanding interfaces we're vital to Battlefield, on my side they were not.

    Agree to disagree.

    Oh, and Voice Chat is still the best command interface.

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    AhmadMetallic

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    #25  Edited By AhmadMetallic
    @easthill:  I'm not talking about the Commo Rose, if you like your VoIP, that's your opinion on player communication and you're entitled to have it 
     
    i'm talking about the tool that makes me lead and order you, as your squad leader. all the little things that a leader could ask you/order you to do, there are plenty of things. in BF3, apparently the only things the Squad Leader can do is point at an mcom/flag, tap Q and say "attack". there's nothing else. How is he a leader exactly? what.. tool have we given him that defines his role? being a spawn point makes you a leader?
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    easthill

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    #26  Edited By easthill

    @Ahmad_Metallic: Then we are talking about exactly the same thing, and in my opinion you are blowing the usefulness of this tool out of proportion.

    You don't need way points and what not to lead a squad of a few players. Didn't need it in BF2, won't need it in BF3. I was a dedicated squad leader in my clan, and the only order I've ever used was "attack" placed over a flag. I can do exactly the same in BF3.

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    AhmadMetallic

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    #27  Edited By AhmadMetallic
    @easthill said:

    I was a dedicated squad leader in my clan, and the only order I've ever used was "attack" placed over a flag. 

    Playing with you doesn't sound very fun to be honest.. 
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    PhatSeeJay

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    #28  Edited By PhatSeeJay

    @easthill said:

    You don't need way points and what not to lead a squad of a few players. Didn't need it in BF2, won't need it in BF3. I was a dedicated squad leader in my clan, and the only order I've ever used was "attack" placed over a flag. I can do exactly the same in BF3.

    When I click a flag and say attack, all that gets me is a squad that scatters to reach it as fast as they can. Though when I placed a "move here" order, I could at least have them gather before assaulting a point. I find that helpful, so why should that be excluded just because you did things your way? I'm not asking for complex options, but I still like placing a marker on a map for my squad to gather there.

    Voice chat is not a viable option for everyone, especially when you're not living alone. No one is arguing whether it's the best or not, but not everyone can talk while everyone can push a button or right click on a map.

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    deactivated-5a00c029ab7c1

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    6 player squads gone
    Comma rose gone
    Commander gone
    Mod Tools gone
    improvements ? besides graphics and physics none.
      
    Looks like Dice had to dumb it down again since its multiplatform would it kill them to at least bring back some of these features for the PC version after all the BF series wouldn't be a success if it wasn't for the PC players. I really wish Dice was more like Valve and actually gave a shit about there core fanbase other Devs do but DICE are to damn stubborn.I will buy BF3 no doubt and I will enjoy it but there's going to be that thought in the back of my head what if? they didn't take out those good features I really hope I'm wrong about DICE and they listen and bring back what the people want.

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    easthill

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    #30  Edited By easthill

    @Ahmad_Metallic: Why do you define the squad leader by his tools, and not actions? I've had great results leading squads in a virtual battlefield without useless orders only half the people will listen to. When I were the squad leader, our squad usually turned to be the best squad, no matter if I was playing with randoms or people I knew.

    A squad leader is supposed to capture flags so that the team can win. Thus the only order needed is 'attack that fucking flag'. When I'm squad leader I except people to spawn on me, to go with me and back me up. If they don't do this without me placing a fucking 'Move here' order every five steps no one can help them. Why would I need to say "Mines" or "Destroy"? Of course someone should destroy a fucking tank when you meet one, don't need a sassy squad leader giving an order to do that...

    But we wont agree, I get that. We didn't even play the same game.

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    ChillyUK7

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    #31  Edited By ChillyUK7

    I thought it would be cool for squad leaders to have a tactical interface that appears in 3D to players that want it, this would be helpful for not only squad members in communication but especially those that aren't (the majority if your not in a party of friends). How it would work is the squad leader brings up a map, quickly paints a way point for attack (or just plain attack/defend flag), dots positions to defend or issues orders like hold fire for sneaking behind enemy lines to cap a flag etc without being found out. Would be a cool feature that helps replace the absence of a commander and would quite frankly be more useful but most importantly if you don't want to see these waypoints you could disble them, make them fade after 10 secs or so, edit their transparency or a combination of the two.

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