What Changes (If Any) Do You Want With Commanders/Leaders?

#1 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

Here's a list for me, after playing some BF2 last night for almost 3 hours. 
 
Commander 

  • Lock Jets and Helis out if some users are being dicks and just wait for it, and then crash it because they suck.  Or they can just have a special Pilot Kit so only people with those kits can use them.  I don't care if people bitch and moan about not being able to fly, guess what...some people shouldn't be flying.
  • Let Commander Scoring be stricter.  I know it does a good job with it already, but to prevent new guys from screwing up...let the team vote if the Commander did a good job or not.  If he didn't, he gets no points.
  • Add In Tactical Nukes - It's About Time
 
Squad Leaders 
  • If they aren't giving commands, switch it to another user.  
  • At the end of a match, the squad votes if the guy did a good job...if he didn't he gets half the points.
 
I was in a game last night when there were no Squad orders so our entire squad was all over the map, I kept spamming "Orders Requested" when we were the arabs, and then when he muted me from using the commands...I started to repeat it with voice in Arabic.  He then got fed up and kept spamming the same orders.  :| 
 
What changes you guys want?
#2 Posted by JoyfullOFrockets (1177 posts) -

I agree with almost all, except for one....
 
@KaosAngel said:

  • Add In Tactical Nukes - It's About Time


Hell fucking no.
#3 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@JoyfullOFrockets said:
"Hell fucking no. "
Aw come on!  It'd be like World in Conflict!  Except without it being a RTS, it'd be the real deal in a FPS!
#4 Posted by HarlequinRiot (1098 posts) -

I think they just need to continue even more down the path of rewarding following orders. Increase the point bonuses, maybe add multipliers for consistently following orders, points for giving rides and decrease the points given for kills. Or even better, only factor in objective points (descending, capturing, etc) towards experience/unlocks. Also (fever dream), remove any traces of k/d. 
 
The system in place is fine, imo. It's getting people to follow it is what needs to change. Locking out vehicles for certain players is a good idea, but they need to offer some offline practice range in that case (maybe lock people out if they haven't done "training" AA style?)

#5 Edited by JoyfullOFrockets (1177 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:

" @JoyfullOFrockets said:

"Hell fucking no. "
Aw come on!  It'd be like World in Conflict!  Except without it being a RTS, it'd be the real deal in a FPS! "
As long as there's no Killstreak reward bullshit affiliated with it.
 
The way I see it as happening to be fair and ballanced out would be:
1.  Make it a game mode. Both teams fight brutally to secure the nuke, ending the game with a larger than life fuckxplosion.
2. Have neutral nuke hubs on certain maps in hard to reach/defend points of the map. When a team captures it, the commander gets to call it in. Of course, it won't be the tremendous size and scale as mentioned above, only enough to equal 4 artillery strikes or something of the sort.
#6 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -

 I'm just gonna counter your points instead of coming up with my own. I think they're fine as they are for the most part, but it's been a while since I played BF2, so I'd need to play a lot of rounds again to get an idea of what needs improving or added to the system.

  
 Commander
  • People shouldn't be locked out of flying helicopters or jets by the commander. What's to stop him banning a perfectly good pilot just to be a jerk, or to help his buddies get in one instead of you? There should be an out-of-server test that you have to complete before you're allowed to fly one, if anything. 
  •  Letting the team vote a commander out of his earned points means leaving the game open to a lot of grief-abuse. Commanders in general have to manage their resources and attention carefully - they can't do everything everyone wants them to do. If a player requests a supply drop but is denied by the commander because his strategy dictates that supply drop would be better served elsewhere, that player will possibly hold onto some petty grudge against the commander and vote him down come the end of the match. A majority mutiny during the match is the fairest way to deal with a bad commander. 
  •  The game doesn't need to go nuclear in my opinion, I'm quite happy with bullets and grenades.

Squad Leaders 
  • How would that work for a group of clan-mates in a squad, conversing via microphones, who don't need to use in game commands? In general, if you join a squad and the leader isn't giving commands, you can just leave the squad and join another or create your own. I don't think there's a fundamental flaw with how squads are currently set up. 
  •  Same thing with voting down commanders, it's open to too much abuse in my opinion.
 

#7 Edited by B0nd07 (1699 posts) -

I disagree with every thing you said.

Lock Jets and Helis out if some users are being dicks and just wait for it, and then crash it because they suck.  Or they can just have a special Pilot Kit so only people with those kits can use them.  I don't care if people bitch and moan about not being able to fly, guess what...some people shouldn't be flying.

That just opens things up to griefing.  For example, the commander locks out all aircraft to everyone but a few guys who happen to be friends/clan mates.  You can't lock out players from content like that.  Sure, there are your genuine assholes that will purposely crash, but most player just need practice; and you can't get practice if you're constantly locked out.
 

Let Commander Scoring be stricter.  I know it does a good job with it already, but to prevent new guys from screwing up...let the team vote if the Commander did a good job or not.  If he didn't, he gets no points.

Commanding isn't exactly easy.  And again, you're punishing inexperience.  If anything, the commander should be able to punish squad leaders that don't follow his orders.  And it would be a complete waste of your time and ruin the experience if you got no points just because a few douches decide you didn't do a good job.
 

Add In Tactical Nukes - It's About Time

Absolutely not.  This isn't Call of Duty.
 

 Squad Leaders 

  • If they aren't giving commands, switch it to another user.  
  • At the end of a match, the squad votes if the guy did a good job...if he didn't he gets half the points.

Giving commands as a squad leader isn't really necessary, and can be daunting as a newbie; so once again, you're punishing inexperience.  A lot of people use third-party programs for communication as well, so in-game commands don't really matter.  Also, if your squad leader is being an idiot, find a new squad.  And if anything, like with the commander, the squad leader should be able to punish the rest of the squad for not following orders.
 

@HarlequinRiot said:
" I think they just need to continue even more down the path of rewarding following orders. Increase the point bonuses, maybe add multipliers for consistently following orders, points for giving rides and decrease the points given for kills. Or even better, only factor in objective points (descending, capturing, etc) towards experience/unlocks. Also (fever dream), remove any traces of k/d.  The system in place is fine, imo. It's getting people to follow it is what needs to change. Locking out vehicles for certain players is a good idea, but they need to offer some offline practice range in that case (maybe lock people out if they haven't done "training" AA style?) "
This is really all they need to do.  Take the focus off of kills and put it back on completing objectives.
 
@Binman88: Great minds think alike.
#8 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

There needs to be more incentive to do what the commander says, or even penalty for not doing what the commander says. There are a handful of dbags in every game that want to turn every mode into deathmatch and there needs to be more in the game to keep that from happening.

#9 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -
@B0nd07 said:
"@Binman88: Great minds think alike. "
Haha, indeed! 
#10 Edited by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

Also there should be some kind of democratic way to replace a commander who makes "bad" decisions. I have no idea how that would even work. On PC you could have a hotkey that challenges the current leadership and if over 50% of the team agree (by hitting the same hotkey), the challenger becomes the new commander. It wouldn't require everyone to vote, if 16 people on a team of 30 vote for it, it happens right then.

#11 Posted by PhatSeeJay (3322 posts) -

I think the Commander Role should be changed into a God perspective instead of having it be a person. There's not a single commander that throws himself on his stomach behind the closest wall and throws up a tactical map.
It worked fin in 2142 when your commander could hide in the Titan but that's about it. You should be able to take out the Commander's armaments, not the commander himself. 
 
But overall I think the Commander role worked for what it was in BF2, you just need a lot more rewards for giving orders that get followed and for the soldiers to follow the given orders. Team players should advance faster because they get more points from doing what the commander orders and not just run about on their own.  Also it need to factor in more than highest rank when deciding who of multiple people should be the commander. If two commanders have the different ranks but one has more team kills or less commander xp per played commander hour then he's clearly not suited to be the commander.
 
The system worked. It just need the xp system reworked to motivate the team work.  Maybe special unlocks during the match if the team performs well. Like kill streaks but..  

team streaks!


Yeah. That's the word!
#12 Posted by Jayross (2365 posts) -

It sounds like you just had a bad match and are raging.

#13 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

Locking players out of aircraft is just not fair and seems like a prime method of abuse.  What's needed (and people have pointed this out) is offline training missions.  People don't jump in aircraft and then crash it because they are dicks, they are just trying to learn how to use them.  If there was a method for people to practice, then I guaruntee people would use it.
#14 Posted by Dedodido (235 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
" Also there should be some kind of democratic way to replace a commander who makes "bad" decisions. I have no idea how that would even work. On PC you could have a hotkey that challenges the current leadership and if over 50% of the team agree (by hitting the same hotkey), the challenger becomes the new commander. It wouldn't require everyone to vote, if 16 people on a team of 30 vote for it, it happens right then. "
That's already a feature in BF2, it just gets disabled on servers a lot (I don't know why). On the squad menu you can click "mutiny" and people have to vote on whether the commander stays or goes. Most of the time he stays.
#15 Edited by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

I completely forgot about Battlefield 2. Yeah the problem with being a commander in BF2 is there's no real value in being that guy. So people don't care either way, commander sets a goal and dudes just go "nah I'm gonna camp or wait for a vehicle respawn". Again, I don't know how you make them really matter without changing the game in fundamental ways that people wouldn't want. They should just have a new game mode and experiment like crazy.

#16 Posted by DocHaus (1335 posts) -

Unless you're in a clan or with friends, Commander mode in BF2/2142 is an exercise in shouting into a void. You get points for staying the commander, spotting people, marking objectives and dropping a UAV/artillery strike every so often. But most people on public servers don't give a shit about your help, and in one server I was even mutinied without explanation. It wasn't like I was leading anyone directly into ambushes. People just want to level up by themselves.
 
[/rant]
 
Also, no fucking nukes in this game. Don't give them any ideas. And while I agree with the other points in theory, I am afraid in practice it will cause everyone to curse the mothers of all commanders/leaders.

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