Your Opinion on Mortars, IRx1 Scopes, Tactical Flashlight

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#1 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

I hate them. They are to the detriment of BF3.

  • The mortars are unfun to use and counter and they fuck up nice tactical streetfights, as well as Rush. Big time re-balancing or even a re-design would be appropriate.
  • The IRx1 scopes just feel cheap. I used them for like 5 minutes in 65 hours of play. I'm against it. In a game with extremely gameplay-relevant lighting and shadows, it's just counter-intuitive for one sight to negate all of that. Everytime when I'm well in cover or hidden or in a shurb or shadow and I get killed, it was a dude using IRs. Feels cheap every time.
  • Tactical Flashlight. Well. I'm partially okay with them. They just need to be toned down a lot and they should dynamically scale back in effectiveness depending on light conditions. Overall, they feel cheap and silly. I don't use 'em out of principle, unless I'm playing Rush in a maptier with a tunnel (even then, I don't really do it).

Long story short. I believe BF3 would be better without them. Really hoping we're getting something like BF:BC 2 Vietnam. An expansion without all the fancy high tech gadgets and bullshit.

#2 Posted by Liber (648 posts) -

They should get rid of IRx1 scope.

I am OK with flashlight and mortars.

#3 Posted by khopps17 (50 posts) -

all of it's fine. I don't use any of it, but it's all fine.

#4 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (729 posts) -

Battlefield 3: Antique Warfare; it's got a nice ring to it, and it's not like they're against antagonizing Activision as we all know. As for these here weapons you've mentioned, allow me to say this, "Really? I mean.. Really?" These are the ones you pick out of the plethora of overpowered bastardness that inhabits the great game we've come to love in the last few weeks? What about the rocket-launcher and how it's used, or the Anti-Air Vehicle that can kill a tank across the entire map? How about the mines that for some reason blow up an entire tank in one shot? You are making it sound like it's basically just the new additions to the game that you dislike. Mortars, nightvision scopes, tactical fleshlights (think about it) are all new to the BF series, and I think they fit quite well inside the context of a dynamic, changing battlefield, but to each their own.

-The mortars aren't as powerful as you'd first believe if you've attempted to spend some time with 'em, duder. They're like to really mess up a map when half the team jumps on 'em, no doubt, but there's also no doubt of that team will be on the losing side. They're a double-edged sword, as not only do you deprive yourself of killing potential, but you also give up any kind of support role you might be performing in your team. Long as a team stay mobile, and doesn't camp, mortars aren't much of an issue.

-The IRx1 scope.. Ah, yes. You're right, it is a little bit cheap. It should be tweaked just a tad. But on the flip-side, it's useless as a scope; as what it basically does is give you night-vision. The trade-off is no zoom, which makes it unviable over longer distances. That's alright when I think about it.

-Tactical light, baby. Great addition, annoying as hell when used correctly, but they also give away your position. I have no complaints regarding them, in the least. As long as they don't start equipping the damn things to rocket-launchers, I'm okay.

In the end of all matters, though, threads like this are going to pop up at a constant. Some people will have some issues with some guns and some equipment and some people won't agree and some will. In my opinion, the game has been balanced wonderfully, and I love the new additions to it. Even if I may not agree with all the tweaks and design-choices, I'd much rather have a game that introduces new, inventive details as opposed to one that sticks fully to the book. Which is why I'm playing this over Modern Warfare 3.

#5 Edited by Mitch0712 (497 posts) -

I do agree that there are some balance issues in BF3. But I find that there will always be something to dislike in all games. Satisfying one audience will enrage another. Devs just need to implement counters to supplemental equipment. This is one thing that Call of Duty does well. For every perk or piece of equipment, there is usually another that will counteract it. Such as "Shades" that make flash grenades useless against you, counter-UAV's, explosives detection, etc. I think it would be great if DICE added perks/equipment to use if you find you are getting defeated because of certain things the enemy is using. The only thing they seemed to give attention to for countermeasures were vehicle upgrades. You get 3 abilities in vehicles, whereas infantry get 1. Perhaps if they increased how many abilities you could have for your soldiers, that could alleviate some of these issues.

#6 Posted by Arker101 (1474 posts) -

Yeah, you can take out IR when they take out prone. The sway and time to zoom in are extremely detrimental to a fire fight, but if it's rush and it's nothing but prone defenders in corners, I'll whip it out. Mortars are alright, I would balance it out a bit more by alerting those who are in range "Watch out! your area has been designated for mortar strikes.", but if they were spotted by a recon make the Mortars do more damage and don't alert those dudes. Flashlights are only useful in CQC, so I see them as balanced.

#7 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Do_The_Manta_Ray:

  • Mortars are not overpowered. They are unfun. The only way to counter 'out of bounds' camping mortar whores is to counter-mortar-whore them. So it's double unfun. If you fail to counter them though (and I do, because it's unfun), then they become overpowered.
  • IRx1 scope - it fucks up gameplay relevancy of Lighting, Shadows and Smoke and Foilage. What's the point of the new engine that's all about dynamic and gameplay relevant lighting and shadows, if the IRx1 destroys such. Same goes for tactical smokescreens or being stealthy. It's to the detriment of the game.
  • Tactical Flashlight needs toning down. Especially in broad daylight. Btw. you can turn them off whilst not being in CQC. There's no downside to them really and the only counter is shooting at the blinding light and hoping for the best.
#8 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Arker101 said:

Yeah, you can take out IR when they take out prone. The sway and time to zoom in are extremely detrimental to a fire fight, but if it's rush and it's nothing but prone defenders in corners, I'll whip it out. Mortars are alright, I would balance it out a bit more by alerting those who are in range "Watch out! your area has been designated for mortar strikes.", but if they were spotted by a recon make the Mortars do more damage and don't alert those dudes. Flashlights are only useful in CQC, so I see them as balanced.

You do know that you show up on minimap when going loud with an unsuppressed weapon? That's all it takes. Whenever your movement is restricted and tactical/static shootouts happen, a mortar whore will shine until countered by mortars. Every infantry-focused urban map and everything Rush can suffer greatly from a high density of mortar whores. You know, it gets worse by the day. The audience at large has not yet unlocked mortars, but every day there are more. Just played some Rush today after 2-3 days of Conquest. Anytime I went loud I had mortars flying in momentarily. Not fun at all and throws proper tactical play right out of the window.

#9 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6789 posts) -

Mortars can be fucking dumb on certain maps, flashlights are fine, and I'm not sure how I feel about IR scopes. I think they're ok?

#10 Posted by CrimsonNoir (403 posts) -

IRx1 Sways too much for me with none of the long range benefits of a regular scope. At least holographic sights stay still for long range, without having to hold shift to steady and doesn't take as long to aim.

#11 Posted by BawlZINmotion (714 posts) -

@xobballox said:

Mortars can be fucking dumb on certain maps, flashlights are fine, and I'm not sure how I feel about IR scopes. I think they're ok?

This. However I think it's more a product of map design than mortars themselves. Grenades and rockets are just as devestating, dumb and unfun in severe choke point situations.

#12 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

Mortars should have limited ammo and long cooldowns.  Everything else is fine. And Manta_Ray's comments are nuts.

#13 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

Don't worry I'm sure another expansion is in the works, EA is good at milking their series.

#14 Edited by Xdsk (268 posts) -

@Seppli said:

I hate them. They are to the detriment of BF3.

  • The mortars are unfun to use and counter and they fuck up nice tactical streetfights, as well as Rush. Big time re-balancing or even a re-design would be appropriate.
  • The IRx1 scopes just feel cheap. I used them for like 5 minutes in 65 hours of play. I'm against it. In a game with extremely gameplay-relevant lighting and shadows, it's just counter-intuitive for one sight to negate all of that. Everytime when I'm well in cover or hidden or in a shurb or shadow and I get killed, it was a dude using IRs. Feels cheap every time.
  • Tactical Flashlight. Well. I'm partially okay with them. They just need to be toned down a lot and they should dynamically scale back in effectiveness depending on light conditions. Overall, they feel cheap and silly. I don't use 'em out of principle, unless I'm playing Rush in a maptier with a tunnel (even then, I don't really do it).

Long story short. I believe BF3 would be better without them. Really hoping we're getting something like BF:BC 2 Vietnam. An expansion without all the fancy high tech gadgets and bullshit.

I have no problem with mortars, agreed they are unfairly balanced due to the fact that you can set them up out of bounds.But if your camping in the same place, you deserve to be mortared. A tweak would be nice so you can only set them up in neutral ground, where both teams can access. If not, an accuracy hit, perhaps making the first few shells ranging shots then subsequent shots increasing accuracy by a small percentage.

IR scopes are cheap, and i agree with what you are saying about one scope negating all the lighting etc (but perhaps they were added to stop people camping in bushes/shadows?) Personally i use IR because i am constantly getting murdered by other players with IR, if you cant beat em, join em.

Tactical lights are the bain of my life, not so much from the enemy team (as it gives me a nice target to shoot at) but from my allies getting me killed by blinding me whilst in fire fights.

With a few tweaks here and there i think balance will be restored.

#15 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

IR scopes should be gone. I picked up a gun with one and it was just absolutely ridiculous.

#16 Posted by big_jon (5768 posts) -

All are bad.

#17 Posted by Beaudacious (934 posts) -

Mortar's are fine, flashlights are already toned down from beta. IR only looks op, its deadly in the hands of a twitcher. But most people don't notice the nuances of the ir scope. In medium to long range its heavily inaccurate, and with high ttk its an easy way to get spotted. As well its a slow scope, and limits your cqb view quite a lot. I've had many situations when a player in cqb has sneaked around me do to the limited field of view IR.

Do you want to know what's really op? SVD and MK11 with reflex sight. SV98 with a holo/4x is also quite good. The Scar is an auto hs kill.

#18 Posted by big_jon (5768 posts) -

@Beaudacious said:

Mortar's are fine, flashlights are already toned down from beta. IR only looks op, its deadly in the hands of a twitcher. But most people don't notice the nuances of the ir scope. In medium to long range its heavily inaccurate, and with high ttk its an easy way to get spotted. As well its a slow scope, and limits your cqb view quite a lot. I've had many situations when a player in cqb has sneaked around me do to the limited field of view IR.

Do you want to know what's really op? SVD and MK11 with reflex sight. SV98 with a holo/4x is also quite good. The Scar is an auto hs kill.

Disagree.

#19 Posted by chilibean_3 (1675 posts) -

I haven't used the IR scope so I don't know anything about it but I'm okay with the other two. The mortar is fun to mess around with and can add some real chaos to an area. It would be cool if the flashlight was a little more dynamic but I don't have a problem with them in general. I love seeing other players use them because it's great at giving away their location.

#20 Posted by huntad (1957 posts) -

@Liber said:

They should get rid of IRx1 scope.

I am OK with flashlight and mortars.

#21 Posted by 137 (481 posts) -

@CL60 said:

IR scopes should be gone. I picked up a gun with one and it was just absolutely ridiculous.

Just wait until you get in a tank or chopper gunner seat with IR unlocked. You can forget hiding in those bushes!

#22 Posted by Skald (4369 posts) -

Conquest on Grand Bazaar with mortars. Jesus Christ.

#23 Posted by McShank (1629 posts) -

mortars are pretty useless unless they are sitting in the same spot (People and vehicles) and make the person using them extremely vulnerable.

IR scopes are something that shouldnt be in the game as it does make hiding impossible.

And the tactical flashlights. They shouldn't blind you if they are not directly in your face. I have seen people run past me and i am blinded yet they were never pointed at me in the slightest.

Otherwise the game seems pretty balanced and not much needs to be fixed.

#24 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6789 posts) -
#25 Posted by Wuddel (2098 posts) -

I am ok with mortars. When using them your are extremely vulnerable against a quick 1-shot counter mortar attack. Also the blast radius of the grenade is not really big.

Tactical flashlight work as intended on dark maps I think, and not so many people are using them anymore. They however should have absolutely zero effect on broad daylight maps, no matter how close you get.

Oh, well the IRx1 scope. I personally only used them a bit, because I like to mix it up. They are really good. It adds a certain flavor to the game, so I hope they can balance them without removing them. By adding some disadvantage to them. Like a overload phase? So you can not see anything for the first seconds after aiming down the sights? I think I remember in the beta they had a lot of "ghosting". Or adding a little light source to the user. So at least he can not hide.

Also: Handguns need a buff ... I guess I need to unlock that co-op revolver.

#26 Edited by DonPixel (2591 posts) -

@Seppli: Obsession with balance is ruining battlefield, The game isn't really suited for PRO MLG bullshitness. I would like it to conserve it's essence as a sandbox crazy messed up party, There is Halo and COD that are better suited for competitive gameplay.

Just look how useless are helis and jets nowadays, I'm pretty sure DICE have skipped lots of good ideas because balance whiners "pro players" would go nuts.

Online
#27 Posted by Extreme_Popcorn (842 posts) -

@Wuddel said:

Also: Handguns need a buff ... I guess I need to unlock that co-op revolver.

Sadly in my opinion it's a piece of shit and so is the .44 magnum, you can fire an entire clip of the M9 or 1911 in the time it takes to fire two shots on them.

I've only been killed by mortars a few times but each time it's fucking annoying. It takes zero skill and effort to sit in your spawn constantly firing off mortars until you get a hit and what's even more annoying is when you finally find the fucks you can't knife them unless you position yourself exactly.

IR scope is a bit of a hack for shooting at stationary targets but the sway and accuracy is pretty terrible when aiming at a moving target so it balances out.

Tac lights are fine, if that person wants to use a poor attachment that gives their position away then go for it.

#28 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@DonPixel said:

@Seppli: Obsession with balance is ruining battlefield, The game isn't really suited for PRO MLG bullshitness. I would like it to conserve it's essence as a sandbox crazy messed up party, There is Halo and COD that are better suited for competitive gameplay.

Just look how useless are helis and jets nowadays, I'm pretty sure DICE have skipped lots of good ideas because balance whiners "pro players" would go nuts.

Not talking balance. As a dude who went flawless in Vietnam Hueys on a daily basis raping faces so hard, their mothers denied them, I don't give a rats ass.

I'm talking fun. Mortars ain't fun to use or to counter. IRx1 ruins stealth (and everything that goes with that like shadows and lighting and foilage and smoke) and frequently feel cheap. Flashlights are paper-awesome but rather aggrivating in-game. Another round of nerfs for flashlights is incoming. Rightfully so. I have mistaken flashlights for the sun too often and that's just as fucked up as it sounds.

The balance is actually better than ever in BF3, much to my dismay - since I like to own faces 'til they melt. Preferably in OP aerial vehicles.

#29 Posted by Pezen (1652 posts) -

I have yet to try the mortar, but I haven't found them to be a major obstacle. The flash lights are a bit too effective and could use some tweaking. IR scope though is nice because I forgot how much people are sitting around in odd corners cheaply getting back-shot kills in Battlefield. A nice counter to them. And it's not the best scope either as far as effectice accuracy.

#30 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2998 posts) -

well I'll just say this m249 with silencer and nightvision is boss

#31 Posted by SomeJerk (3357 posts) -

Mortars are met with counter-mortars, they require pin point accuracy and their victims standing still or being pinned down so they are fine.. but they should not be usable inside of a player spawn area! Maybe cut the distance by 50.

IR scopes should get adjusted and made realistic - you don't use them on a sunny day. Look into the darker shady foresty bits of Caspian through IR = fine. Look where it's bright as day = should not be able to see much at all.
 
Tactical Flashlights have been adjusted further for this coming client patch., they are a little more realistic compared to real life tactical flashlights.. when their glare is captured by a digital camera. Tac flash should be most effective in the dark or indoors for realism's sake, not sunny day from 25m away.
 
 
Also to change, weapon balance having more to it than "there's a single weapon for every kit worth using, the rest cannot compare with it no matter how you play"

#32 Posted by Divina_Rex (351 posts) -

It is definitely annoying to see a guy using a silenced Heavy MG with an IR scope on it.

#33 Posted by Arker101 (1474 posts) -

@Seppli: I do know that, but counter mortar-ing, is extremely easy, and the more people using mortars, the less that are actively defending. Have you tried the Flak specialization? I always have it on whatever class I'm using to capture objectives.

#34 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Arker101 said:

@Seppli: I do know that, but counter mortar-ing, is extremely easy, and the more people using mortars, the less that are actively defending. Have you tried the Flak specialization? I always have it on whatever class I'm using to capture objectives.

I don't feel mortars are overpowered. I just find them to be unfun. Also - they tend to destroy fun shootouts. I hate being engaged in a streetfight like in Heat (the movie) and then some lowskiller out-of-bounds camper starts raining mortars on my position. When the pressure is on and it's a matter of minute angles and split-second aim, nothing's more retarded than a mortar intervention. Breaking fun in favor of what? Playing Battleship on the minimap on my next spawn? That's replacing fun with unfun.

#35 Posted by Giantstalker (1706 posts) -

In defense of the mortars here:

I don't think snipers are fun, at all, but I wouldn't for a second think of taking them out of BF3. And rocket launcher spam destroys more fun shootouts than mortars ever did, that's point-and-win at its finest. I love being in a tense shootout only to have a hundred RPGs come out of nowhere at once and completely end my entire side, truly fun that is. But it's a war game, so I deal with it, and try to avoid crowded shootouts.

Look at it this way: It takes more skill to lead and hit a moving person/vehicle with the mortar than it does blindfiring rockets all day in the Damavand Peak tunnels, or any other map with choke points, farming for kills.

The "fun" in mortars comes in trying to bomb guys while simultaneously not getting bombed yourself, looking for enemy mortar positions on the minimap. The only OP thing that needs to get balanced is when they're set up in out-of-bounds areas, as stated above. I also think that they should get an accuracy reduction so that at least there's a chance it'll go off-target once in a while. They need rebalancing, sure, but I think otherwise they're a great addition to the game.

#36 Posted by gpbmike (864 posts) -

@Seppli: I actually think mortars are quite fun. Here's a scenario I had the other day. I was playing with my brothers in a squad on Grand Bazaar. One brother was using the mortar and supporting us as we moved up. On that map in particular you can get stuck in the middle. Instead of backing out and going around we could direct his fire to surpress and push through. Alternatively, if shells start dropping around you, it's time to move.

IR scopes and flashlights don't really bother me. Nothing to add there.

#37 Posted by BigBlueCheese (68 posts) -

Mortars can be useful in open maps against stationary targets. As long as you're continuously moving or hiding in buildings they can't be useful.

I've only seen the tactical light being useful in the operation metro map. The other maps are open enough so they can be spotted at a distance.

IR can reduce your situational awareness since they cut off the sides of your view. And I don't think they work well at a distance. In medium to close range situations target acquisition is really quick. It does make the game look ugly though.

#38 Edited by DonPixel (2591 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@DonPixel said:

@Seppli: Obsession with balance is ruining battlefield, The game isn't really suited for PRO MLG bullshitness. I would like it to conserve it's essence as a sandbox crazy messed up party, There is Halo and COD that are better suited for competitive gameplay.

Just look how useless are helis and jets nowadays, I'm pretty sure DICE have skipped lots of good ideas because balance whiners "pro players" would go nuts.

Not talking balance. As a dude who went flawless in Vietnam Hueys on a daily basis raping faces so hard, their mothers denied them, I don't give a rats ass.

I'm talking fun. Mortars ain't fun to use or to counter. IRx1 ruins stealth (and everything that goes with that like shadows and lighting and foilage and smoke) and frequently feel cheap. Flashlights are paper-awesome but rather aggrivating in-game. Another round of nerfs for flashlights is incoming. Rightfully so. I have mistaken flashlights for the sun too often and that's just as fucked up as it sounds.

The balance is actually better than ever in BF3, much to my dismay - since I like to own faces 'til they melt. Preferably in OP aerial vehicles.

Fair Arguments, Luckily the tac lights are being toned down, I haven't notice much problem with the IRV myself and I don't care for it either if it's removed, I do like the mortar thou because it's fun and it sums to the Battlefield messy ass Battlefield's atmosphere.

Online
#39 Posted by Grilledcheez (3954 posts) -

The only thing I don't like is the flashlight...my whole screen turning white is a pain.

#40 Posted by Skyrider (373 posts) -

I don't mind any of them. It's not like using them makes every player automatically invincible. Mortars show up on the map, the blinding flashlights can be annoying but all you need to do is shoot into the light. As for not being able to be sneaky because of IR, just use LOS. If you hide in a bush directly facing someone, chances are they can spot you just fine without IR, whereas they can't see you if you're not in their line of sight. I use IR, but it's not like I can run around with it constantly being up.

Come to think of it, I don't even recall ever being able to see through bushes with IR. I still see the bush. If someone's in that bush, I can see the parts of them that are not obscured by the bush, but if they're completely obscured by the bush, I can't see shit.

#41 Posted by DeathTrap (265 posts) -

I'm not a big fan of Mortars or Flashlights. Flashlights are way too powerful in all situations - even in dark areas or at night they shouldn't blind so much unless the flashlight is very close...mortars are just incredibly aggravating. I haven't unlocked them, so I have no way to counter them when they're set out of bounds beyond trying to find a high point and seeing if I can snipe them (which rarely works). As for IR, I don't know if I've ever really encountered it. At least, if I have, it wasn't so blatantly unfair that they saw me that I took notice of IR.

#42 Posted by Intro (1211 posts) -

IRx1: You get less vision around your screen and lose viability when looking at some areas of the map; it also has sway, unlike the holographic/red dot. In return, you can see people hiding in bushes better, sounds balanced to me.

Mortars: Haven't a problem with them, someone on the other team can easily find the other guy using the mortar and take him out. Although I see how mortars can create problems.

Flashlights: You should have to be aiming at their face to blind them. It's just so annoying in the middle of the desert I'm getting hit by a random light when someone's running by.

#43 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Extreme_Popcorn: The rex will fuck your day right up dude. You can empty a whole clip into me, but i only need to shoot you once in the face to drop you.

#44 Posted by Extreme_Popcorn (842 posts) -

@Canteu: Only if you ADS, the hip fire pointless

#45 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

I've only been annoyed by mortars on Seine Crossing, and I don't plan on playing anything else than Firestorm, Caspian and Gulf of Oman so I'm cool with them. 
 
It's not like you can tell someone uses IR scopes either. It's not THAT good. If you have sharp eyes you can probably do just as well without it while also getting greater magnification. 
 
Flashlights shouldn't blind you outdoors, or at least not from as long range as they do currently.

#46 Edited by Mikemcn (7005 posts) -

You get your filthy hands off my taclights, jerk.

I agree with your opinions about IR sights though, I love using one and feeling like terminator, but they're way too effective. I haven't used a mortar yet to decide how effective it is, but in most games I play, no one really uses them to great effect. Seine Crossing is plagued with them though.

#47 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

I always 'know' when I got owned by IRx1. 9 out of 10 times, when I'm calling it, I am right. I have very good awareness and I know when I should not be seen, so when someone kills me nonetheless, I just know it's been IRx1. A moment later the killer cam comes up and I'm usually right.

I guess IRx1's bad influence on gameplay is more glaring the better your 'Battlefield Awareness' is.

#48 Posted by Donos (1197 posts) -

I never found IR sights overly strong in the beta, since muzzle flare and smoke tended to block the thing every other shot anyway. I haven't unlocked it yet in the full game, but if it's gotten lighter I suppose they could just turn up the interference a bit to emphasize the tradeoff of spotting someone before the fight versus having a harder time actually fighting.

#49 Posted by SirPsychoSexy (1331 posts) -

Mortars: Not that strong, I don't die to it that often. Seems fine.

IRx1: Has limited range, can be countered with spec ops camo. Seems fine.

Flashlights: Blind can work well, but gives away position very easily. Seems fine.

In other words, they are all fine, just leave it.

#50 Posted by Mahonay (829 posts) -

That's all stuff I hope they balance in the near future. None of it is really game breaking to me, though.

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