Not at all, in fact that's part of what I like about it, gloriously over the top :D. I think you all need to take a chillpill.

you know i liked Devil May Cry mostly due to the  coolness it tried to have (and succeeded mostly).  But Bayonetta seems to put a lot of emphasis on the ' the game is fuckin crazy DUDE' which i am not that much into. Yeah sure i love god of war, which is crazy in its own way and all, but it doesnt DEPEND that much on it.

If I get this right then violence is o.k but sex isn't. Now I understand why our world is in such a fucked up condition!

" @I_smell: It's not exactly different from Kratos running around killing things in overly violent fashion, ripping someone's head off and using it as a search light.  Both are crazy, just different kinds of crazy. "

I honestly couldn't care less about it. I know the game's going to be really fun to play and that's all that matters to me. Besides, it's come to a point in videogames and in other media when women are objectified it doesn't surprise or shock me anymore. Men are objectified too, maybe not to the same extent, yet they are and no one seems to be concerned about them. Pointing at one game and criticizing it for it's over-sexual tones while not criticizing other media is hypocritical. As the old saying goes, sex sells.   

The main character is not even sexy. 

" @Turambar said:

" @I_smell: It's not exactly different from Kratos running around killing things in overly violent fashion, ripping someone's head off and using it as a search light.  Both are crazy, just different kinds of crazy. "

Not to mention God of War has full on digital boobs as well as a implied sex quick-time-event. Nobody seems to say boo about that.  "

If you're still afraid of girls just don't play it. Problem solved.

I didn't really think of it as sexual. For me, the whole game looks like a piece of art, and nudity was part of it like it sometimes is in art.
 
That said, I probably wouldn't have liked it as much if there was a nude dude :D

" @RaoulDo0k said:

" @Turambar said:

" @I_smell: It's not exactly different from Kratos running around killing things in overly violent fashion, ripping someone's head off and using it as a search light.  Both are crazy, just different kinds of crazy. "

Not to mention God of War has full on digital boobs as well as a implied sex quick-time-event. Nobody seems to say boo about that.  "

Because it's not trendy to hate on God of War yet it is trendy to be faux upset at this game.  Oh the bullshit humanity! "

@RaoulDo0k
 
I just find the whole discussion to be hilarious though.  Seriously, it's like some men are so confused by post chauvinism that they actually are self protesting the game's sexual nature.  What's next, do some guys end up growing ovaries too?
 
The whole thing is completely lollable.

For some odd reason I now want to play this just to see what your talking about. Thank you, I think your topic has failed.

" Not at all.  I'll never understand why people get so uptight by a little sexuality in games but freely support the evisceration, decapitation and disembowelment of others with fervor.   "

I'm more put off by the fact it plays like DMC.

" @PenguinDust said:

" Not at all.  I'll never understand why people get so uptight by a little sexuality in games but freely support the evisceration, decapitation and disembowelment of others with fervor.   "

It's not the fact that it has "a little sexuality", its that it has a whole lot of misogyny. And it glamorizes it. I'll be the last person to say that there's anything wrong with having sex in video games, if anything we need more of it, but it's all about how its handled. Depicting sexuality in a way that reduces women to pure sexual objects is just wrong, and trying to make it look cool like the game does just validates the misogynistic male fantasy on display. It's the male gaze at its worst ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze#The_Male_Gaze_and_Feminist_theory) . Its The Jack Thompsons of the world say a lot of dumb shit about video games, but they'd be totally justified to attack this game. I'm not saying this game is going to make you go rape someone, but its reflective of and in support of a culture and a mindset which that sort of behavior is born out of. "

" @JackLumber said:

" @PenguinDust said:

" Not at all.  I'll never understand why people get so uptight by a little sexuality in games but freely support the evisceration, decapitation and disembowelment of others with fervor.   "

It's not the fact that it has "a little sexuality", its that it has a whole lot of misogyny. And it glamorizes it. I'll be the last person to say that there's anything wrong with having sex in video games, if anything we need more of it, but it's all about how its handled. Depicting sexuality in a way that reduces women to pure sexual objects is just wrong, and trying to make it look cool like the game does just validates the misogynistic male fantasy on display. It's the male gaze at its worst ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze#The_Male_Gaze_and_Feminist_theory) . Its The Jack Thompsons of the world say a lot of dumb shit about video games, but they'd be totally justified to attack this game. I'm not saying this game is going to make you go rape someone, but its reflective of and in support of a culture and a mindset which that sort of behavior is born out of. "

Whoah.  Did you just quote the male gaze?  For a game...really? 
 
No way jose is this related to an entirely fictional character who exists in a whacked out game where she is the most powerful witch out hunting for angels to kill.  Your point of view is incredibly inept if you think that the moral lolcats of this world would even bother to attack this game.  They wouldn't and you know why?  Because this game is upfront and honest with its overtly sexual and graphic titillation of images of power yet it has a strong female lead.  It's a crazy game, yes and it's sexual yes and it's stupid yes but misogynist ABSOLUTELY NOT.  For something to be misogyny it has to show a female in such a way as to depict her to be hated or to have her character as having inflated aspects of her sexuality (titillating or otherwise) to be hateful.  The worst thing this lead character says is a reference to the SNL Cowbell sketch, as in "I've got a fever and the only cure is more dead angels".  That's ridiculous I grant you, but in no way does it connect with her feminine qualities nor does it depict her or any other women associated with her as stupid, evil or even mildly irritating (well maybe the latter if you concentrate too deeply on the dialogue and are bothered by ridiculous statements).  Her enemies are sometimes women and in fact her man raison d;etre is indeed a woman, but once again, none of the female leads are portrayed with any form of derogation.  The lead character is sexualised to the extreme but it's no worse than the "battle nuns" or indeed any of the bondage clad female forms in one of three factions in Brutal Legend.  
 
The kind of idiots who might attack this are the same people who inspired the album cover and song by one of my favourite all time comments on the ridiculousness of it all who reminded us to laugh all the way to "11". Spinal Tap with their album and self titled hit song "Smell the Glove" 
  Once we've lost the ability to laugh at ourselves or in this case, the 3D images of hyper reality and overt sexuality and violence, which reflect ourselves and our own limitations through the artists lense, then we may as well all give up and go home,    I mean you actually refered to Jack Thompson.  His campaigning was idiotic and decried his own personal issues which led to him being disbarred.  That's almost a funnier comment on this so called (non) issue than your reference to the male gaze.  Now, if you wouldn't mind I have to go put a tinfoil covered cucumber down my pants before I go on tour. "

" @JackLumber:  Yes, I don't accept that argument though in this case since these allegations are only applied to games.  Beauty contests, cheerleaders, Victoria Secret TV shows, etc...all have cultural acceptance and they in no way elevate anything.  If you want to travel down that very limiting view that any glorification of sexuality, male or female is bad then that's fine for you, but I don't see this representation as negative.   However, if you were to argue that there is too much of this particular portrayal in games and not enough realism to counter-balance the fantasy imagery then I would agree.  But, still I don't know how times I've heard the outrage from even those depictions.  As game developers travel farther into controversial areas, the more resistance they encounter.   It's easier to dismiss the over-the-top jiggles of DOA and the sculpted shirtless form of Kratos than it is a pseudo-lesbian encounter in Mass Effect which is why those depictions draw more ire.  I wonder how many people are confused by what they feel when seeing Bayonetta and are therefore angered by the rendering.  Personally, I don't think anything should be censored and if game makers want to continue creating games with pretty women and beefy men then that's fine with me. "

I also think it's quite pathetic, is pandering and detracts from the overall quality of the game.

Calm down guys, all I'm sayin is that I don't wanna have to sit through a Carry On film to play this game.

Totally dude, girls are icky.  But there is this one girl I like...so I ran up to her and punched her in the shoulder, and instead of saying "i like you too" she bursts into tears and tells her friends what an asshole I am.  Go figure.

" @SeriouslyNow said:

" @JackLumber said:

" @PenguinDust said:

" Not at all.  I'll never understand why people get so uptight by a little sexuality in games but freely support the evisceration, decapitation and disembowelment of others with fervor.   "

It's not the fact that it has "a little sexuality", its that it has a whole lot of misogyny. And it glamorizes it. I'll be the last person to say that there's anything wrong with having sex in video games, if anything we need more of it, but it's all about how its handled. Depicting sexuality in a way that reduces women to pure sexual objects is just wrong, and trying to make it look cool like the game does just validates the misogynistic male fantasy on display. It's the male gaze at its worst ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze#The_Male_Gaze_and_Feminist_theory) . Its The Jack Thompsons of the world say a lot of dumb shit about video games, but they'd be totally justified to attack this game. I'm not saying this game is going to make you go rape someone, but its reflective of and in support of a culture and a mindset which that sort of behavior is born out of. "

Whoah.  Did you just quote the male gaze?  For a game...really? 
 
No way jose is this related to an entirely fictional character who exists in a whacked out game where she is the most powerful witch out hunting for angels to kill.  Your point of view is incredibly inept if you think that the moral lolcats of this world would even bother to attack this game.  They wouldn't and you know why?  Because this game is upfront and honest with its overtly sexual and graphic titillation of images of power yet it has a strong female lead.  It's a crazy game, yes and it's sexual yes and it's stupid yes but misogynist ABSOLUTELY NOT.  For something to be misogyny it has to show a female in such a way as to depict her to be hated or to have her character as having inflated aspects of her sexuality (titillating or otherwise) to be hateful.  The worst thing this lead character says is a reference to the SNL Cowbell sketch, as in "I've got a fever and the only cure is more dead angels".  That's ridiculous I grant you, but in no way does it connect with her feminine qualities nor does it depict her or any other women associated with her as stupid, evil or even mildly irritating (well maybe the latter if you concentrate too deeply on the dialogue and are bothered by ridiculous statements).  Her enemies are sometimes women and in fact her man raison d;etre is indeed a woman, but once again, none of the female leads are portrayed with any form of derogation.  The lead character is sexualised to the extreme but it's no worse than the "battle nuns" or indeed any of the bondage clad female forms in one of three factions in Brutal Legend.  
 
The kind of idiots who might attack this are the same people who inspired the album cover and song by one of my favourite all time comments on the ridiculousness of it all who reminded us to laugh all the way to "11". Spinal Tap with their album and self titled hit song "Smell the Glove" 
  Once we've lost the ability to laugh at ourselves or in this case, the 3D images of hyper reality and overt sexuality and violence, which reflect ourselves and our own limitations through the artists lense, then we may as well all give up and go home,    I mean you actually refered to Jack Thompson.  His campaigning was idiotic and decried his own personal issues which led to him being disbarred.  That's almost a funnier comment on this so called (non) issue than your reference to the male gaze.  Now, if you wouldn't mind I have to go put a tinfoil covered cucumber down my pants before I go on tour. "

Well, yeah. I think you can apply the male gaze to pretty much any visual art. Video games use similar techniques for visual storytelling to film, and as far as cutscenes are concerned, there's really no difference at all in how you analyze it.  Camera placement and movement, editing, mise en scene, etc, all those techniques apply just as much to video games as to film, at least in the cases where those choices have been made by the developer.  As for saying it's mysogynistic, I wasn't using the strict dictionary definition of the word. I was just going with the common use of the word (at least how I usually hear it thrown around). What I meant was that its displaying her as a sexual object. It has nothing to do with making her hateful. In fact, I think it's a lot worse to show a woman as an object of lust than an object of hatred. Ask anyone who's been raped or had someone very close to them be raped and they'll probably tell you the same thing. Validating a view of women as creatures who exist to serve male fantasies is just wrong. And its worth mentioning that that sort of thing usually happens in very subtle ways. Its usually entirely visual. The actual story of the game doesn't have anything to do with it. I think the context that it's put in can negate the problem (Brutal Legend does that for the most part. It's a comedic parody of old school heavy metal culture), but it can exist entirely independently of context.  Perhaps what this argument comes down to is whether or not you view the game's depiction of women as a tounge in cheek, jokey sort of thing, done on purpose for the sake of parody or what have you, or if you view it as a shameless attempt to appeal to a young male audience. Personally, it seems to me to be more of the latter. And even if that wasn't the intention, that seems to be the reaction.   P.S. I wasn't really trying to refer to Jack Thompson, I was just using his name a shorthand for all the politicians and media figures who talk about the evils of video games and their detrimental effect on society and so on and so forth. "

It dosen't bother me at all, whenever I hear people complaining about this part of the game it just comes off as pretentious to me. Kind of like "Well I, as a high class gamer prefer my characters serious and my women to also be serious". In the end it comes down to the gameplay and if the demo is anything to judge by, this game is going to be fun.

" @SeriouslyNow said:

" @JackLumber said:

 Perhaps what this argument comes down to is whether or not you view the game's depiction of women as a tounge in cheek, jokey sort of thing, done on purpose for the sake of parody or what have you, or if you view it as a shameless attempt to appeal to a young male audience. Personally, it seems to me to be more of the latter.

" For some odd reason I now want to play this just to see what your talking about. "

i dont think its a reason not to pick it up

Yeah, I am.  I'm also off put how by the fact that you're a sex witch.  This line alone describes the game and one of the many reasons I have no interest in it , "Mummy is a witch, and witches protect people and are very strong."

I find that her weird sexiness is just yet another part of Bayonetta that makes it totally and absolutley crazy. Yes, it's a little off-putting but at least it doesn't seem as creepy and fetishized as say... Dead or Alive. In other words: If we are going to talk about misogyny in video games there is still farther down to go. Everything about Bayonetta seems to be a little tounge-in-cheek. The same cannot be said for all games that objectify women in a similar or worse manner.

" According to Arthur Gies, this game can and has been masturbated to. "

" I'm not put off by it, but I'm not turned on by it. "

People need to come off their high horses. I understand you're trying to be mature about it, but it isn't a big deal. 

" People need to come off their high horses. I understand you're trying to be mature about it, but it isn't a big deal.  "

As a married man, the overt sexuality makes this a title that I cannot play, similar to how I would never play an extremely violent title in front of my wife.  However, I could never even own Bayonetta, but I could buy AC2 and play it when she's not around.  Maybe it's just American conditioning that sexually charged material is somehow more "ebil" than violent, but I feel it has more to do with the reaction that erotic material triggers in men.  It is far easier for me to fantasize about sexual acts than violent ones, and that's enough to keep me away.
 
Call me prude or whatever you want, the over-the-top sexuality has "turned me off".

" People need to come off their high horses. I understand you're trying to be mature about it, but it isn't a big deal.  "

" I understand where you're coming from. It kinda pushes me away from the game, but it isn't my style of game anyway. "

" First off, it is from SEGA, not Capcom...  Second, it is okay for a woman to be sexy. What is wrong is a woman being used as a sexual object. If you have a problem with the Bayonetta character, what's next ? Women (and homosexual males) will complain about a totally ripped and shirtless male hero ? We actually have that in every other game... Just to be clear, they heroine in Bayonetta isn't forced to be naked. She decides to be ... "

" @CharleyTony said:

" First off, it is from SEGA, not Capcom...  Second, it is okay for a woman to be sexy. What is wrong is a woman being used as a sexual object. If you have a problem with the Bayonetta character, what's next ? Women (and homosexual males) will complain about a totally ripped and shirtless male hero ? We actually have that in every other game... Just to be clear, they heroine in Bayonetta isn't forced to be naked. She decides to be ... "

...by the male development team that created her O____O  This isnt a real person. "

The boner lets me use both analog sticks and face buttons at once. I see no problem.

Yeah, it's creepy and pathetic. Better question would be: "Does anybody actually like it?"

I think that's just it for me. I played the demo. Gameplay seemed fine but something seemed to poke me where it was uncomfortable and it might just be this.

" @SeriouslyNow: 
 
Words aren't designed for anything. They mean whatever the vast majority of people accept them to mean.
 
Bringing up Borderlands is just dumb. A RAKK HIVE isn't and cant be a sexual object because it's not a human (or something closely resembling it. Avatar might be a good example of that, not that I think it's too gratuitous there). I was under the impression that you knew what concepts like "sexual object' and "male gaze" and etc meant. Either figure out what they mean or stop making pointless diversions.
 
As for what I said about rape, you're just nitpicking my choice of words. Trust me, I know rape isn't really a sexual crime. i've spent too much time working with rape victims to not know that. I'm not sure where you got that I was making that connection. I was just referring to the idea of a sexual object again and trying to not be too repetitive in my choice of words. Perhaps I sacrificed clarity there, and that's my mistake. 
 
Also, don't start attacking me. Attack my argument. And try reading what I said. Here I'll quote it again:
 
@JackLumber said:

" @SeriouslyNow said:

" @JackLumber said:

 Perhaps what this argument comes down to is whether or not you view the game's depiction of women as a tounge in cheek, jokey sort of thing, done on purpose for the sake of parody or what have you, or if you view it as a shameless attempt to appeal to a young male audience. Personally, it seems to me to be more of the latter.

"

LUST + OVERT SEXUALITY + GAME =/ RAPE

Nah, they could have done it up way worse.

" Nah, they could have done it up way worse. "

" Yeah I'd rather play as a really old lady in a sweat suit. "