Too damn hard. What am I doing wrong here?

#1 Posted by TranceQuina (149 posts) -

I'm normally way into action games like DMC/Ninja Gaiden/God of War (even finished God Mode on that one) and understand that the difficulty is the whole idea of fun here, but unless I'm missing some fundamentals of playing this game, this is over the line.
 
I'm currently stuck on Chapter 6, against the two Grace and Glory duos.  I can't seem to get hit one time without getting roped into an entire combo that nearly kills me.  I'm seeing a rose that pops up when I get hit, don't know what that is, but dodging successive hits seems very unreliable.  I was using Kulshedra at first but that thing seems kinda terrible so I switched back to Onyx Roses+Scarborough.  I have no items concocted and not enough materials to make anything.  Most times I can kill the first duo and then get scratched once by the next two and die.  I'm dodging my ass off, but as soon as I get two hits in I know it's time to dodge again, either because the guy I'm hitting can't be staggered or because the other one is about to smack me into the air from off-screen and pull some MVC-level air combo.
 
I understand that later on in the game there is a harder version of these enemies that are un-Witch-Time-able (you know, the ability that the player's entire success seems to weigh on), and am not sure I want to keep playing this thing.  I love the style, the depth is fantastic, but it's getting to be just too damn hard.  What am I doing wrong here? 
 
I would also appreciate a minimum on the "well I guess the game just isn't for you/you just can't handle it" comments.  Thanks very much.

#2 Posted by musclerider (589 posts) -

Are those the red/blue claw guys? because they are the total fucking pits. That game is worth beating just because of the style but holy shit some fights are not fun at all.

#3 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@TranceQuina: I believe that is where i sort of got stuck in the game. I'm sorry it's been a long time I really don't know what I did other than get more rings and buy moves. Though eventually i got good enough to get every single achievement in that game. I suggest only engaging one enemy at a time. According to the wiki only one goes after you.

#4 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

I believe I have the answer you're all looking for. The solution is simply do to as The Whitta says, and use more skill.

#5 Edited by TobbRobb (4596 posts) -

Oh god, it's been so long. All these names mean nothing. Chapter 6 means... The staircase? Yeah those guys were assholes. Maybe the hardest part of the game for me personally. But I always was bad with tag teams.

That fight is actually very straightforward, as I remember there aren't any good tricks you can pull. Just try to focus one down while keeping an eye on the other, don't get hit, take a break if you are frustrated and good luck!

Is Kulshedra the Katana? I used that thing almost exclusively, and I think it's about the only thing you have at that point that will kill them fast enough. But use whatever you are most comfortable with, that will yield the best results most likely.

EDIT: Oh and I don't remember if its exclusive to a weapon or not, but the charge move you can buy is insanely useful. The faster you can close the gap in that fight and get a hit or two in, the better.

#6 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

As somebody who has finished that game on all difficulties, if you want to make the game easy, all you have to do is use the Durga Lightning on your hands. Just drop bombs by holding the attack button. You won't get any rings from combo score, but you'll sure have an easier time of it.

Also, if you can, get the bazillions and just dodge while holding down the kick button (it's been a while). You dodge while shooting from your feet and it pretty much makes the game a joke, but once again you don't get any combo score.

Also, get Selene's Light (witch time on being struck) and the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa (just mash towards the enemy on the left analogue stick, guaranteed block).

Getting good with the moon is basically key to being a Bayonetta master.

The only way to get witch time on Gracious and Glorious (the harder versions) is with the moon.

edit: just so you know, the hardest difficulty (non stop infinite climax mode) eliminates witch time entirely :)

#7 Posted by Petiew (1344 posts) -

Grace and Glory are easily the worst enemies in that game, and they almost ruined it for me also.
You should really make use of the crafting system and stock up on health items. Apart from that there isn't much I can say since its been ages since I played. Just dodge like a madman even when you think you're safe. Get a couple of hits in and move out of the way quickly.

#8 Posted by Jadeskye (4367 posts) -

@Canteu: Where were you when i was struggling to S-rank this game? damnit!

Online
#9 Posted by TobbRobb (4596 posts) -

@Canteu: I'm pretty sure most of those are unavailable to him at that point in the game.

You reminded me that he should probably get the thing were you transform into bats and get witch time though, that is pretty useful.

#10 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@TobbRobb: Yeah you're right, you don't get durga until chapter 10.

If you really really really want to make the game a joke. Finish 100 chapters on normal or higher (can just replay chapter 1) to get the Sai Fung. That shit is cray cray.

Shuraba charge attacks are probably your best bet at this stage of the game then. Trying to think of what you can obtain at that stage.

#11 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

what you're doing wrong is playing bayonetta, if you ask me. That game is garbage and that one guy had it right that large sectins of that game are literally gibberish.

#12 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Jadeskye: i totally haven't S ranked it btw. I'm too lazy to go get that last chest.

#13 Posted by Flappy (2195 posts) -

@Canteu said:

As somebody who has finished that game on all difficulties, if you want to make the game easy, all you have to do is use the Durga Lightning on your hands. Just drop bombs by holding the attack button. You won't get any rings from combo score, but you'll sure have an easier time of it.

Also, if you can, get the bazillions and just dodge while holding down the kick button (it's been a while). You dodge while shooting from your feet and it pretty much makes the game a joke, but once again you don't get any combo score.

Also, get Selene's Light (witch time on being struck) and the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa (just mash towards the enemy on the left analogue stick, guaranteed block).

Getting good with the moon is basically key to being a Bayonetta master.

The only way to get witch time on Gracious and Glorious (the harder versions) is with the moon.

edit: just so you know, the hardest difficulty (non stop infinite climax mode) eliminates witch time entirely :)

Since I haven't played this game in ages, I'll just piggyback on this comment right here. As far as non-stop infinite climax mode goes, that's the difficulty where you use the accessory that allows Bayonetta to drop an explosive skull instead of the usual witch time. Since there's no witch time in the first place, there are no downsides to it. Abuse it.

#14 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Flappy: I have to agree with this. The Evil Harvest Rosary in combination with the Moon is pretty much perfect.

But of course, infinite climax is quite a way aways if you're thinking about tackling it :p

Also, if you're low on Halos. Just do this.

#15 Posted by KittyVonDoom (445 posts) -

You want difficult? Try not playing the game for almost a year and then forgetting how to play it at the Epilogue :(

#16 Posted by ReyGitano (2467 posts) -

The only advice I have is dodge, and dodge well. Witch time is your best friend early on. Also just focus on one at a time, once one of them is down it gets a lot easier to deal with the other. I ended up S-ranking he game, but I remember early on getting stuck at the same part and using some health items for these harder fights.

#17 Posted by Getz (2996 posts) -

There's no "trick" to this game, you just have to suck it up and deal with it's cheapness. With some of the tougher enemies, you need to be mindful of their tells and what kind of attacks they use and make sure you're nowhere near them when they use those attacks. When in doubt, turtle the fuck out of them and make sure not to over-extend yourself by using overly long combos. Getting Witch Time is key, so make sure you're doing that instead of just spamming the dodge button all the time. You'll get the hang of it eventually.

#18 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Getz: Bayonetta is not cheap. Everything is clearly telegraphed and every single attack can be avoided/absorbed/countered.

If you get hit, it's on you.

#19 Posted by TobbRobb (4596 posts) -

@Getz said:

There's no "trick" to this game, you just have to suck it up and deal with it's cheapness. With some of the tougher enemies, you need to be mindful of their tells and what kind of attacks they use and make sure you're nowhere near them when they use those attacks. When in doubt, turtle the fuck out of them and make sure not to over-extend yourself by using overly long combos. Getting Witch Time is key, so make sure you're doing that instead of just spamming the dodge button all the time. You'll get the hang of it eventually.

Aside from calling it cheap, this is basically all you need to know.

Look for telegraphs, learn the timing and don't just spam all day.

Heh, sounds a lot like Souls combat when you put it like this, I knew I liked this game for a reason.

#20 Posted by TranceQuina (149 posts) -

Wow, I didn't expect this kind of response.  Thanks everyone! 
 
To update, after taking a break, I came back and repeated an earlier chapter for some halos, bought the Bat Within technique, then drilled straight through Chapter 6.  Feels good.  I know there will be more cursing and controller tossing and lots of "THE SHADOOOOW REMAIIINS CAAAST!!!" to be had, but at least I can move forward. 
 
It was also a relief to hear so many hated this particular enemy as much as I do.

#21 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

Grace and Glory are the toughest regular enemies in the game and always a bit dicey on the dodge; you get less than a half second to activate Witch Time on some of their moves. That said they're still relatively easy to kill with lollipops on your side. For Infinite Climax use uh Shuraba/Durga Air combo that has a wicked weave lift and then combos into charged durga kicks (forget the specific attack string; possibly PKPKK or just PPPKK, not guaranteed to take no damage but reasonably close).

Alfheim Portals (and the secret boss) are difficult especially beyond normal, rest of the game isn't too bad.

#22 Posted by Getz (2996 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Getz: Bayonetta is not cheap. Everything is clearly telegraphed and every single attack can be avoided/absorbed/countered.

If you get hit, it's on you.

Fair enough, I just use cheapness as a catch-all term for something that's really frustrating, which Bayonetta certainly can be especially on harder difficulties.

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