Anybody else play on hard? And quit?

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#51 Posted by Cerevisiae (75 posts) -

@humanity said:

No idea why people play games on hard first time through. Usually it just buffs enemy health and makes the game a chore.

The challenge is fun. I'd rather it be too heard than too easy (which is just boring).

#52 Edited by expensiveham (290 posts) -

I played the first 4 hours on hard. The handymen were such a pain so i decided to just swap to normal.

#53 Posted by Mcfart (1599 posts) -

I played on medium because I knew I wouldn't like the gameplay (spoiler:I was right) and rushed through the last 3rd of the game to see the story.

The only reason I can see people playing on hard is for cheevos.

#54 Edited by handlas (2672 posts) -

@expensiveham said:

I played the first 4 hours on hard. The handymen were such a pain so i decided to just swap to normal.

And did it make it a lot easier?

I really enjoyed the art in this game but, man, the bullet spongy enemies killed it in several areas on hard. I don't mind hard games... I like hard games. But I want fair games. Enemies that can sprint at you while being shot and smack you in the face and take half your health away is not very fair in my book. And the handymen didn't seem to be effected by the magic much. I found the fireball vigor whatever worked best on them but that didn't help much either. Best tactic was just to keep as much distance from them as possible but usually there were several other enemies shooting you while you try to keep your distance.

#55 Posted by llamaegg (225 posts) -

I'm honestly surprised as the amount of people having trouble with hard, you can literally combo crow traps and melee and get through half the game before you have to start mixing stuff up. I found the game didn't really get that hard till the end, when they started throwing everything at you, which forced me to change my play style. As for Handymans? Easily abused once you get the charge vigor upgraded.

#56 Edited by handlas (2672 posts) -

@llamaegg said:

I'm honestly surprised as the amount of people having trouble with hard, you can literally combo crow traps and melee and get through half the game before you have to start mixing stuff up. I found the game didn't really get that hard till the end, when they started throwing everything at you, which forced me to change my play style. As for Handymans? Easily abused once you get the charge vigor upgraded.

I upgraded the fire vigor and a couple of guns and that was about it. I never really seemed to have a ton of money to upgrade things. And I checked just about every single barrel, purse, bench, whatever else I came across.

I'm playing 1999 mode so I guess I'll be sure to utilize charge on them next time. The problem for me mainly was whenever there was a Handyman around there were always 10 henchman doods there shooting you as well which meant me dying several times before I could take them out.

#57 Edited by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

Man, I'm on the second Lady Comstock fight and I'm about ready to give up. This shit is so fucking poorly designed and frustrating it's amazing it even made it into the game. I've been playing on hard the entire time, and while I think most of the bigger fights are really cheap and way harder than they need to be, this just takes the cake. Fucking ridiculous and it kind of makes me hate the entire game. I can't believe that, even IF I get past this fight, I have to do it again. Fuck you, BioShock, Infinite. You're breaking my heart.

@herbiebug said:

I have also noticed some irregularities with the presentation of the enemy health bars. Even on normal, I have had several encounters where an enemy's bar is down to a pixel and inexplicably takes several more hits to actually die. This design choice of intentionally misleading healthbars, usually referred to as 'guts', has occasionally been implemented in fighting games to draw out the tense moments at the end of the match when one or both characters appear to have little or no visible health bar remaining.

Yeah, this is absolutely terrible and has lead to many unfair deaths, where I'm shooting dudes that very clearly should be dead, but aren't simply so they can kill me for no reason.

Yeah, I'd say go ahead and notch back the difficulty. The combat doesn't change past the point in the game you are now, so you've already seen all it has to offer. Playing through the endgame on hard, given your assessment here, will only lead to more annoyance I imagine.

#58 Posted by Jackel2072 (2248 posts) -

Lady Comstock and the air ship was by far the worst on hard and i ended up bumping it down to easy, just because i wanted to move the story forward. The problem i ran into was lack of ammo in both scenarios the airship had health packs everywhere but the only guns you were given were the shotgun and RPG and sniper. not ideal for that fight. and scavenging also not ideal seeing how it yields little to no ammo.

#59 Edited by FaPaThY (131 posts) -

@jackel2072: Shotgun is actually ideal for that fight(Or any fight really) if you use upgraded Charge and that piece of gear that doubles damage against that enemy for 5sec on melee hit. Along with a net of shock traps, I ended that fight with 80%+ left on 1999 mode. I actually had an easier time than my Normal playthrough where I just tried to kill everything from range. Also, either Possess the RPG guys or knock them off the edge with Undertow.

#60 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

I played through Hard mode the whole time and didn't get frustrated at all until the last fight. Still stuck with it though and had a great time with it, although the penalty for death was pretty mild.

#61 Posted by Pixeldemon (244 posts) -

I played through the whole game on Hard, but I considered dropping it down to Normal a few times. I think the damage model made me play really conservatively, which is probably less fun than going wild with all the powers.

Still I enjoyed the challenge, but if I play again, it will probably be on Normal.

#62 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

I full on face rolled the graveyard fight. Did not die at all. Playing on hard right now.

#63 Posted by oct_ONES (64 posts) -

I started on hard mode and had a difficult time, but powered through. The most difficult parts were the ghost battles the first of which i went into without resources and was able to squeeze by with the help of Elizabeth handing me salts and ammo, the second one i camped at the vending machine using Return to Sender, which makes you invincible so long as you have the salts to keep it up, the third ghost battle in front of the manor i camped near the Sniper Rifle tear and spammed the Mosquito tear as a distraction as i pumped bullets into her.

I'm now on 1999 mode and am having a better time than my initial playthrough. The Crows seem to be the most helpful in large crowd situations with the perk that creates new traps with the victims. I always possess the machines most situations because it is easier to have the other enemies take them out than it is for you to. I had no real preference for weapons, but really hated the Repeater and Heater.

#64 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@oct_ones said:

I started on hard mode and had a difficult time, but powered through. The most difficult parts were the ghost battles the first of which i went into without resources and was able to squeeze by with the help of Elizabeth handing me salts and ammo, the second one i camped at the vending machine using Return to Sender, which makes you invincible so long as you have the salts to keep it up, the third ghost battle in front of the manor i camped near the Sniper Rifle tear and spammed the Mosquito tear as a distraction as i pumped bullets into her.

I'm now on 1999 mode and am having a better time than my initial playthrough. The Crows seem to be the most helpful in large crowd situations with the perk that creates new traps with the victims. I always possess the machines most situations because it is easier to have the other enemies take them out than it is for you to. I had no real preference for weapons, but really hated the Repeater and Heater.

Spamming Devils kiss on the ghost makes it super easy to a point of laughing.

#65 Edited by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

@oct_ones said:

I started on hard mode and had a difficult time, but powered through. The most difficult parts were the ghost battles the first of which i went into without resources and was able to squeeze by with the help of Elizabeth handing me salts and ammo, the second one i camped at the vending machine using Return to Sender, which makes you invincible so long as you have the salts to keep it up, the third ghost battle in front of the manor i camped near the Sniper Rifle tear and spammed the Mosquito tear as a distraction as i pumped bullets into her.

I'm now on 1999 mode and am having a better time than my initial playthrough. The Crows seem to be the most helpful in large crowd situations with the perk that creates new traps with the victims. I always possess the machines most situations because it is easier to have the other enemies take them out than it is for you to. I had no real preference for weapons, but really hated the Repeater and Heater.

Spamming Devils kiss on the ghost makes it super easy to a point of laughing.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a period of time, I guess, where she is invisible? I think that period of time really hurt my want to use vigors against her because I was noticing no appreciable damage.

I think the other big problem I had in the game was that early on, because of the turrets, I developed the bad habit of trying to hide out in a corner of a map and wage my entire campaign from there. I would frequently miss all vending machines and tears that would help me win a fight until the danger was over and I started exploring. If I played it again on hard, I would be much more equipped to fight more effectively.

#66 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@the_laughing_man said:

@oct_ones said:

I started on hard mode and had a difficult time, but powered through. The most difficult parts were the ghost battles the first of which i went into without resources and was able to squeeze by with the help of Elizabeth handing me salts and ammo, the second one i camped at the vending machine using Return to Sender, which makes you invincible so long as you have the salts to keep it up, the third ghost battle in front of the manor i camped near the Sniper Rifle tear and spammed the Mosquito tear as a distraction as i pumped bullets into her.

I'm now on 1999 mode and am having a better time than my initial playthrough. The Crows seem to be the most helpful in large crowd situations with the perk that creates new traps with the victims. I always possess the machines most situations because it is easier to have the other enemies take them out than it is for you to. I had no real preference for weapons, but really hated the Repeater and Heater.

Spamming Devils kiss on the ghost makes it super easy to a point of laughing.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a period of time, I guess, where she is invisible? I think that period of time really hurt my want to use vigors against her because I was noticing no appreciable damage.

I think the other big problem I had in the game was that early on, because of the turrets, I developed the bad habit of trying to hide out in a corner of a map and wage my entire campaign from there. I would frequently miss all vending machines and tears that would help me win a fight until the danger was over and I started exploring. If I played it again on hard, I would be much more equipped to fight more effectively.

I just did it when she summoned the guys. It hurt her and the dudes she summoned. Half the time they spawn and just die.

#67 Edited by 49th (2723 posts) -

Just beat hard mode and didn't find it all that difficult. I died three times on the zeppelin battle, but the ship didn't get destroyed - and that was mostly from being flanked while I focused down the patriots.

I also didn't have trouble with the ghosts at all, I died once during the first battle but the other two I beat her in under a minute just using Bucking Bronco as crowd control and shooting her with the fully upgraded Hand Cannon. Really great game, I'm glad I played on hard.

#68 Edited by palaceman01 (3 posts) -

I found this post while googling "Bioshock Infinite is hard." I'm not new to gaming so I'm glad some others agreed with me. Good for Irrational Games though for not making it kiddy-friendly on the difficulty side. There's a time for hard and there's a time for medium and they are:

Bioshock Infinite -- MEDIUM. I turned down the difficulty to medium after a while. The AI is just very bullet-spongey and the thought of spamming a shield-boost through the whole game doesn't sound as fun as murder of crows, possessions, and devils kisses mixed in with whatever guns at the time.

Dead Space 1 -- HARD. The only way to go. Felt more balanced, fun and thought provoking rather than frustrating. On hard, you couldn't waste ammo or play stupid but it didn't feel like I was mindlessly emptying clips into bulletsponges either. Very nice.

EyE Divine Cybermancy -- MEDIUM. The mingun and sniper combo can get you through the game on hard, but again? What If I want to revolver, katana and spastically jump all over the place as my playstyle?

Witcher 2 -- HARD. Just grind monsters at night and upgrade your gear. Your a monster hunter any way right? So grinding didn't ruin the immersion, it added to it.

Crysis 2 -- HARD 1st playthrough but going through Crysis 2 on medium with just my pistol and armor abilities (with machine gun single shot for sniping and auto for sticky situations) really helped me live out my ol' marvel-comics fantasies.

Any hoo...that's my two cents.I liked all my above medium experiences, though I tend to initially gravitate toward Hard.

#69 Posted by Ostratego (35 posts) -

I did the exact same thing: Played Bioshock on hard mode, quit two hours in; played Infinite on hard mode, finished in normal.

I didn't have an issue with turrets. Possess them, get closer and shoot them or just run from the scene. Mid-game upgrades to the possession power made it relatively inexpensive to use, in terms of salt consumption.

What switched me were handimen. In the circular arena with Fink, I realized why I didn't like Doom 3 enemies: handimen attacks vibrate your controller and the screen (leaving me relatively shaken), they attack in rapid succession and have a small weakness that is not easy to attack up close (especially because their attacks move your reticule), they are only viable to kill using their weakness, and sometimes you're not given the option of a turret (for agro; this was the case in the Fink level). Even on normal, they are difficult to beat. I died 15 times in succession (3 times in a row; the handyman spawnkill, by the way) on the Fink level after finishing out all the enemies except him.

#70 Posted by palaceman01 (3 posts) -

[face palm]. Turns out I AM still playing on hard. I didn't know that. I thought I turned it down to medium. I know this because I was going to give up on medium to get through Lady Comstock and dag-burn it, if it wasn't jacked up to hard this whole time up to Lady Comstock! [/face palm]

#71 Posted by clush (413 posts) -

I too dialed the difficulty down from hard to easy at the graveyard. Up until then I was absolutely fine, but at that point I was pretty ill-equiped and didn't fancy backtracking. Also I was groing increasingly tired of the game's arena after arena after arena shtick and the combat in general. Seeing how many more arenas were still to come I'm glad I did. It got really old really fast in a matter of minutes at that point.

#72 Edited by Gruff182 (854 posts) -

I played it on Hard, I didn't really have any trouble at all except for the first Lady Comstock fight. Couldn't figure out if I was supposed to shoot her or her minions and didn't have much ammo. The other couple of times were fine though. Shock Jockey and Murder of Crows we're the only vigors I used frequently. I was playing on PC so aiming was obviously much sharper, the hand cannon, carbine and sniper rifle were my weapons of choice. Great single shot damage to the head usually did the trick. Great game.

#73 Posted by palaceman01 (3 posts) -

It's official, after (finally) turning the difficulty down from hard to medium I can tell you the difference. On medium, you might actually find your SELF aiming at the enemy. On hard you are peeking your head up only to find they all know exactly where you are all the time from the beginning to the end and are concentrating their fire...kind of like...bots. It actually feels inorganic and kind of cheap to me personally. If me and Elizabeth are making our way to a large group of armed guards who are not really hiding their locations but rather walking a beat, it stands to reason that we would be every once in a while catch a guard looking the wrong way and get a free shot or two. On hard, AI feels like bots in Bioshock Infinite. On medium, they feel like guards. IMHO.

#74 Edited by BBQBram (2212 posts) -

Finished it on normal first, then on hard, then 1999 Mode. It really helped ease into it, hard mode feels like easy now.

#75 Posted by TychoX (55 posts) -

Only parts on Hard that gave me an issue were the Handyman fights and Lady Comstock.

#76 Edited by groposo (25 posts) -

I played on hard my first time through and didn't have much of a problem, I died but didn't get frustrated. I put three or so points in shield for each point in salts and used return to sender, bucking bronco, a pistol or a rocket launcher and a trusty shotgun. Just pop the dudes in the air and pick them off with the shotty. The upgrade for bucking bronco that makes it spread after each kill is AWESOME. Charge is fun too.

#77 Edited by ll_chilidogs (43 posts) -

I played on hard. The handyman fights were tough, but fun. I got through them without dieing every once in a while. The lady Comstock and Zeppelin fights were HORRIBLE though. I had to watch youtube videos for bug exploits on the graveyard fight, and had to memorize patterns on the Zeppelin. Those fight are really my only problem with the game. It really rubbed me the wrong way, that everything was perfectly tense (every combat situation really made you think) then the two fight comes out of left field and make the game feel like a COD Mile High achievement run-though.

#78 Posted by RonGalaxy (3073 posts) -

@jazgalaxy: I played it on 1999 mode without using any of the dollar vending machines to get items, and had no real difficulty. Yeah, lady comstock and another late mission that's a REAL pain in the ass, could be frustrating, but it only takes persistence to beat them.

Also, there's 2 vital pieces of gear in the game that you may, or may not, have. One gives you full health upon being revived, and the other makes it so enemies don't regain health when you die. If you have those things, the game is a god damn cake walk.

Honestly, if you are having a lot of trouble, just lower the difficulty to normal. It's a game that deserves to be played all the way through to the end, regardless of what difficulty you played it on.

#79 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

No. Did anyone else play it on 1999 Mode and wish it was more of a challenge?

#80 Posted by Duffyside (888 posts) -

I started a 1999 game after finishing the first time, and turned it off pretty much immediately as I realized that none of the progression tracking of the voxophones was visible in the menus any longer. None of that carried over. I combed the entire game the first time through, getting 75/80 of them, and then poof, all gone, with no idea which ones I missed.

I wonder if they'll ever patch that?

#81 Posted by Moody_yeti (369 posts) -

After just finishing it on 1999 mode without buying anything from the vendor s I can honestly say I won't be doing that again.

#82 Posted by jbreezycp (6 posts) -

For the record, Hard isn't that hard (aside for the Handyman for me which were almost impossible), Lady Comstock? It's quite easy on Hard with twice damage boost upgraded sniper rifle. Literally, peak out, shoot, handle the grunts that rush you, peak out shoot, repeat. Oh and hey look Liz throws you ammo to restock your ammunition. Aside from the first encounter with her in which I don't even remember how I beat her, I just did... the only thing I struggled with is the final fight with Vox (i didn't die just failed the objective) So besides Handymen, hard wasn't that hard.

#83 Edited by NTM (7324 posts) -

No, I'm playing it on 1999 mode now, and it's not too bad. The only time I die is when there's a special enemy type, like the motorized patriots or handyman's. I only die once or perhaps twice on them though, and not always, it just depends on how aggressive a motorized patriot is or which weapon I have for the handyman, other than that, it's not too bad. Plus, you never really die, though if you lose all your money, I'm not sure.

#84 Posted by messatic7 (3 posts) -

@snail said:

I read a PC Gamer article, in which the author said that hard mode was the proper way to play the game if you are experienced at first person shooters. He made the case that the challenges presented the hard mode forced players to use tears, vigors and the skyline more often and more strategically.

After playing through the whole game on hard, and hearing Jeff's comments on the last Bombcast regarding hard difficulty, I think the PC Gamer guy is correct. Jeff said that he didn't use the skyline much, because he felt he didn't need it to clear out each "arena" of enemies. I felt like I depended on the skyline. Whenever I was getting in a tough spot, I needed to either find some quick cover or get the hell out of there, and tears were often a way to accomplish the former, while the skyline was a great way to accomplish the latter. I found myself using perks that increased my accuracy while on a skyline so that I could use the Bird's Eye Sniper Rifle to headshot dudes while flying past them - which was made easier by slowing down, changing directions, and using the skyline in ways that maybe I would have felt I didn't have to use, had I played in a lower difficulty. I also found myself dependent on using the Possession vigor to get temporary allies, I found myself dependent on turrets and other tears that Elizabeth could bring in, and stuff like that. I had to come up with stuff constantly. The challenge made the combat richer.

To be fair, I have to admit I found the beginning to be overwhelmingly hard, and lost probably way too much money there. But by the time I got to the second half I had already been thoroughly enjoying the combat, and felt that most of the times I died it was my own fault, and the result of my own carelessness and lack of strategic planning. On the podcast Jeff said that he only died a few times, always due to thinking he could essentially just Rambo a section but being wrong about that.

Also I'm definitely not a fan of the penalty for dying in this game. Taking money away from you only means you'll have less to spend on upgrades, which means the game is going to be even harder for you. At one section I kept dying over and over, and lost hundred of silver eagles. I couldn't upgrade my weapons and vigors after that, which means that, had I been better at the game, the game would essentially have been easier? Also sometimes you might be thrown on loops of dying over and over because you are spawned with less ammo and less health than when you came into that same specific challenge, which is really frustrating. But I found that generally, the more I progressed into the game, the rarer those situations became, and they never did come up more than two or three times throughout my playthrough.

Overall, I feel like I had a better, richer, more complete and varied experience with the combat in BioShock Infinite than what I would have had if I had played through it on medium or easy difficulties. Even if there were some occasional seriously frustrating encounters, I had some really great and exciting moments fighting dudes and half dudes-half machines in that game.

I agree that the harder difficulty encourages you to utilize the tears and skylines, I played on hard and the combat would gel in a good way when you start to use these unique elements more often. But, it also felt like several of your powers didn't really scale up to the difficulty. I feel like Persuasion and Return to sender were much more viable than many of the others, and many times I just 'lamed out' the combat. Also, upgraded crows was a great tool in the Lady Comstock fight... keeping most of the mob tied up in crow trap after trap.

#85 Edited by Gelf513 (73 posts) -

I managed to make it all the way through on hard, but there were two times when I started getting seriously frustrated: the first time when you fight lady comstock in the graveyard with no vending machines around, and then the last encounter when you have to defend the generator from the vox and perfectly mangage your use of songbird.

#87 Posted by Morningstar (2149 posts) -

Played through it all on hard without any trouble, but I agree there are too much combat in that game. That is true in almost any game though. It's how they pad them out.

#88 Posted by Nubikal (105 posts) -

Started on hard, got pissed off by the turrets shooting from far away (and often despite not actually having a line of sight) and breaking through my shield into my health if I dared to try to move to the next bit of cover to close the distance. Played the rest on normal and enjoyed it for the story rather than the combat.

#89 Posted by wheres_my_phone (1 posts) -

@jazgalaxy: For Lady Comstock I used the sniper rifle and shotgun and found a well guarded spot in all three fights. If anyone came close they got the shotgun and from a distance I took them out with the sniper. The only other thing I used were the crows sometimes. it's good to be near a machine for ammo too. I didn't die in any of the fights when I did that.

Btw, hide near the entrance where you came in in the first fight. She comes there every 20 seconds but the other guys rarely come. They fight from a distance and you can snipe them if they're being a pain of shooting rpgs at you

#90 Posted by Whitestripes09 (400 posts) -

I found this game a bit too easy on normal. Hard seemed like a great difficulty until I got to the handy mans and lady comstock... talk about bullet sponges and adding nothing but a halt in the flow of the game.

#91 Posted by michael_katarn (80 posts) -

I actively disliked the combat in Infinite. It just wanted to be two many different things. the shooting didn't feel great, the vigor's were cool but there were two many different ones and none of them ever felt like stood out and it was hard to use all of them. You also have to spend way too much time picking up ammo, guns, salts, and food and shit. I bumped it down to easy and died my way to end. Its not that there is nothing good about the combat it just doesn't focus on anything and I think use of vigors and salts could be simplified and ammo should just pick up when you walk over shit. I feel like 90% of my gameplay was just picking up shit on desks. the other 10% was dying up to the next scene. Maybe i should have looked at the equipment stuff but it just didn't seem like I was going to. Maybe it was my own fault the more I talk about. No fuck that, every room was just like a bot arena. I just wanted to see the story. The ending made up for any terrible times i had dying forward. Still really like the game as a whole.

#92 Edited by laserguy (443 posts) -

i never finished the game, I got frustrated by the end timed fight. I never play on hard mode, I cant handle the rage i get, but Im playing Dark Souls, thanks to a five dollar sale. The thing is when your unemployed five dollars go's a long way. If I can play Dark Souls which is a hard mode game I should be able to play Bioshock on hard mode, except Dark Souls doesnt contain any timed missions.

#93 Edited by Brozik (20 posts) -

I just started playing this (a little late to the party, but I'm loving it) and I am honestly shocked that some people have such a difficult time with Hard mode. I'm definitely dying a bit but its just a matter of adjusting my strategy and I don't really have a problem dying more than once in an area if I do die. Plus, it's awesome that the game imposes real penalties for death, so its not just some reload checkpoint bullshit. I can light people on fire or raven them and execute them pretty quick and easy, headshots aren't that hard either.

#94 Posted by Timbertaft (1 posts) -

I can't say the difficulty ever borked me up too badly. I admit that the handymen and turrets could be irritating, especially early on, but as long as you make use of your vigors (possession or firebombs) and get the right equipment (frost shield for dealing with handymen) you could get through even 1999 mode without having to rage too much. (though frost-shield in general is just way too good).

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