Well, this thread contains end-game spoilers.

I don't know if this was brought up before, but has anyone else noticed how each of Booker, Comstock and Songbird die? One way or another, they all die by drowning. Comstock is drowned by Booker after he smashes his head on the baptismal font; Booker is drowned by Elizabeth in the river; and Songbird is also drowned by Elizabeth when she opens a tear to Rapture.

I personally haven't paid a lot of attention to the discussions on the true identity of Songbird, and, quite frankly, I didn't really care. This, however, struck me as conspicuous that these three characters died in somewhat similar ways, especially Songbird. So, since everyone knows that Booker and Comstock are the same person, do you think Songbird is a variation of either Booker or Comstock?

Then again, when I think about who Ken Levine is influenced by; I can't help but think that this was done on purpose to throw us off. This actually reminds me of the second season of Mad Men (seasons 1 and 2 Mad Men spoilers ahead) when everyone thought that the blonde child Peggy checks on in her mother's house is her love child, when the truth was that she actually gave him/her away.

I think you might get some heat for this, maybe try putting a "Spoiler Warning" in your thread title. Hope this helps.

@dwigtk: I tried, but titles are limited to 60 characters. I'll try to change the title.

WelI haven't watched Mad Men yet so Hopefully that last bit didn't ruin anything important..

also no; I didn't notice how they were all drowned. Cool beans.

Dude if you read what he says he says SPOILERS in the first sentence.

Anyways, I noticed this about Comstock and Booker but hadn't considered the Songbird part.

I never really thought Songbird drowned, I didn't think it really breathed. I just thought the deep ocean crushed him.

But yeah I do see the connection of everyone that had a say in Elizabeth's future died by water.

@vikingdeath1: Oh, I'm terribly sorry. I think it most probably won't ruin anything important. It's just a relatively small subplot anyway. I know this though, it won't ruin your enjoyment of the show. Sorry again :p

@artisanbreads: I am aware that he said spoilers in the first sentence, I have also seen posts just like this where people explode for not having it in the title. Was just trying to be helpful and avoid the OP having to go through it.

It's a nice observation, but it's probably just symbolic.

This made me realize something else: the only scenes where you see the sky and the ocean together in Bioshock games are the lighthouse scenes at the beginning of each, and the final one at the end of Infinite. It's a nice symbolism.

i just assumed it was keeping with the baptismal theme. death of an old life, beginning of anew.

@doctorchimp: Interesting. Well, I always thought that Songbird was similar to the Big Daddies, in the sense that there is a living human being underneath the suit. Anyway, I think that transition from low-pressure to high-pressure environments lead to Decompression sickness, so you're probably right; Songbird probably didn't suffocate.

Huh. No, actually. Never thought about the Songbird part of it. I'm not sure if there is anything meaningful to it other then following the baptism stuff. And Songbird probably died due to the pressure more than suffocation but the water is still the important part. Neat thing to think about.

If we really want to be super symbolic and philosophical about this stuff (and probably make some pretty cool artwork in the process), we can view that universe in a sphere where in the middle of the sphere is flat with a body of water with the center being the lighthouse, the very bottom of the sphere is Rapture and hovering above at the topmost part of the sphere is Columbia.

@dwigtk: Yeah, I guess some can be overly sensitive when it come to spoilers. Thanks for the heads-up.

@sin4profit: @snail: I agree. Actually, I have always thought that it was in keeping with the baptism motif. I also agree with what doctorchimp said, that everyone who had an impact on Elizabeth's future died by water.

@gaspower: I'm actually surprised that -- as far as I know -- nobody as done that yet :p

I get you but people will complain about everything. If you're going into a topic delving into a games story, all spoilers are in play.

@artisanbreads: Mad Men spoilers...

@i_stay_puft: I did add a spoiler tag as soon as I read vikingdeath1's comment...

Yeah just joking.

So what you're saying is that in Bioshock Infinite 2... we'll play as Songbird?

I'm in.

Yes, the game is filled with heavy handed religious parables. Like Jeff said, if you over analyse this stuff, it starts to fall apart. It's best experienced as a crazy action romp through a really interesting world.

@artisanbreads: Yes, I agree with you on that for sure.

As fort the topic at hand, all of this talk on Infinite makes me want to play it more, I never played any of the other Bioshock's but for how much everyone is talking about the story in this one it seems like a must play.

yes, it was mentioned in the Vinny ending Infinite they mention that. But also.... you know with a mask and all, and even the design base on Big Daddy, You'd think song bird could have withstand a small amount of water like the first fall he crack. Ocean pressure okay.

I'll edit this message soon after I read your thread, but I have to say... I'm just really happy you made a Bioshock thread! :D I just went back to playing it since I bought the game again, though on 360 this time with all the DLC. I'm having a hard time deciding if it's my second or third favorite game of this year. The reason is because while it interests me very, very much, it initially came with some lofty disappointments, so I was quite conflicted about it; still am, but after Burial At Sea, some of that has been alleviated.

Edit - Oh, no no. It's just the theme, ever since the beginning: Baptism. Songbird was created by Fink to protect Elizabeth the same way the Big Daddy's were made to protect the Little Sisters, and there's actually a reason for that (Fink stole from Suchong). I don't think the actual person in the Songbird suit, if there is even one (which I don't think there is), was ever a point of interest, though I guess it can be.

I also don't think you should interpret it that way either if you look at all the facts, though I can't rightfully tell you you shouldn't since that's really what the game is about in the end, perceptions. It's just that what you bring up isn't something that ever crossed my mind, nor will I ever think about it since I feel like it's factually just not the case, but who knows, it could be, which would just turn out to be random to me if that was ever revealed.

@dwigtk: I didn't like Bioshock 1 too much (thought the world was amazing but story was not) and this one has a great story and great world, to me.

@crithon: I don't think he was made to withstand pressure underwater since he wasn't meant to go underwater. The idea of Songbird came from Big Daddy's, but I don't think he was made with the same stuff.

@artisanbreads: I disagree. I think it was quite the opposite if anything. The story was, if not better, just as good but more complex in Infinite, so long after, even to now, it can have you still thinking about the story and what it all meant. Columbia on its own was disappointing to me when compared to Rapture, but I feel like that was on purpose because it wasn't the main focus. I say Columbia was disappointing, but I still think it's a great setting, but it's hard to outdo Rapture to me. I feel like in Infinite, Irrational took a different approach with it and took liberties. I don't know why you didn't like the original Bioshock story and liked Infinite's, perhaps it's a more interesting topic? I don't know.

@ntm: that's what I said, but even just a small amount for flying in the clouds with rain and high altitude. First time he touches water the lens cracks and he bleeds.

@hatking: I only brought this up, because I thought that it was a fairly straightforward and interesting detail in the story. But, I actually agree with you to a certain extent. I've seen countless discussions where people tend to dissect every little thing, and end up straying so far that they miss the point.

I think the Bioshock series means different things to different people. I feel like both the story and the world created are multi-layered enough that having viewpoints from people who experienced it from different perspectives can be, I don't know, enlightening? I mean, if people focused only on the action set-pieces, things like the historical facts that went into fleshing out the world of Columbia, would have gone over my head, for instance.

I suppose it's meant to infer all the more that Songbird is another Booker.

@dwigtk: You can get all the Bioshock games for less than $60. Infinite is currently on sale, and you can get the Ultimate Rapture edition for $30 or less.

Everything after the twist in Bioshock wasn't good to me. Infinite was good all the way through and tied into the first game... it was very smart. The highs were higher for me with the characters.

I also really enjoy the different aspects they fleshed out about the setting of Columbia. The use of modern stolen music is one of the coolest little touches in a game, to me. The way the plot was more directly political. The Fraternal Order of the Raven was also one of my favorite moments of a game this year, really cool environment. The museum was also an interesting setting. The skylines were cool in the world and great in the gamplay.

I also liked playing this game way more than playing 1, so that helped.

I know most people like Bioshock 1 more than I do but I think Infinite is a much better game.

Nice observation, didn't even cross my mind that both Booker and Comstock died the same way let alone, Songbird also dying the same painful death.

did Songbird drown or was it crushed by the underwater pressure? I'm not convinced Sognbird could breathe.

There's probably a good reason for it, I doubt it's a mistake. It's simply unexplained in detail as to why it happens.

@artisanbreads: That's fine, that's your opinion. There are many others as well that, while may like the original better overall, also believe the combat's not that great in it, I'm not one of them; I like the mix of weapons and plasmids, it makes it fun, but it's also not the reason I love Bioshock. I think Infinite feels different when it comes to combat, but is just as adequate to me, though I can understand why some would believe it's better.

One thing, though somewhat minor, that I wish transferred over into Infinite is how in the original and in two, when you upgraded weapons, it not only made it more powerful or what have you, it also changed the look, and that was cool to me. I wouldn't fault you for liking Infinite more, it's a superb game, but I don't like it quite as much as the original merely due to atmosphere. I'm liking Infinite more due to the blend of Rapture and Columbia, not just the cities, but the characters, like how Fink stole ideas from Suchong.

I should also mention that I really, really liked Bioshock 2. The only reason I mention it is because it seems like that's never in the discussion when it comes to these games, and perhaps rightly so, but not because it's a bad game. I just think it deserves a mention somewhere.

Well if it was done to throw us off the scent it worked on me. I was so convinced of the booker/songbird connection that it confused the actual ending of the game because my mind was already so far down that path.

I thought Songbird died from the crushing, terrible pressure at the ocean floor.