Elizabeth's dove pendant?**Minor Spoilers**

#1 Posted by Jedted (2409 posts) -

So i've finished the story and i'll just say i found it way more compelling than Bioshock 1. Although i am curious if anything happens if you pick the 'Cage' over the 'Bird', even if it's just a line of dialog.

I chose the bird because i saw it as metaphor for her character and i wanted her to be "free". I don't mind that it's a minor plot point, just nice that they give you the choice.

#2 Posted by Andorski (5365 posts) -

Went with bird for the exact reason. I think it was Vinny who said that he went with Cage because the bird pendant made it look like the bird was falling.

Also, to my knowledge, whichever you choose has no impact on the rest of the story. It's just a ploy to have players connect with Elizabeth.

#3 Edited by Red (5994 posts) -

It's just another way for the Luteces to mark what timeline you're in.

#4 Posted by Nephrahim (1156 posts) -

It's not a ploy, it's a a false choice designed to bring attention to your lack of REAL choice.

But then I'm getting into deeper spoiler territory here.

#5 Posted by StarvingGamer (8544 posts) -

@jedted said:

Although i am curious if anything happens if you pick the 'Cage' over the 'Bird', even if it's just a line of dialog.

Taken from here (shameless self-promotion *coff*).

What is the point of choosing the bird or the cage?

For Booker and the actual game, nothing in particular. Similar to the coin flip, the Luteces are testing the constants and variables for iteration 123 of their experiment/quest to free Elizabeth.

More specifically, all that happens in the moment is this:

Pick Bird

Rosalind - Surprising, I expected the Cage.

Robert - If you're going to be a sore loser, I shan't do this again.

Pick Cage

Robert - I expected the Bird.

Rosalind - "If you're going to be a sore loser then I shan't do this again.

Online
#6 Posted by Gamer_152 (14109 posts) -

I chose the bird for the same reason, but picking one or the other doesn't have any effect beyond the dialogue you get and changing the way Elizabeth looks through the game. Like the coin flip at the beginning, the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Moderator
#7 Edited by postnothing (65 posts) -

@gamer_152: If that was the case, then why not just let her pick whichever one; why bother present you with a choice?

#8 Edited by Gamer_152 (14109 posts) -

@postnothing: Well from the developers perspective I can think of a number of reasons why they would have done that, but from a story perspective the Luteces always had more direct interest in Booker than Elizabeth.

Moderator
#9 Posted by postnothing (65 posts) -

@gamer_152: Oh, I see now. I think that's certainly plausible. I personally thought it was intended to make a statement on choices in video games, or lack thereof.

#10 Posted by Gamer_152 (14109 posts) -

@postnothing: That's definitely a valid way to interpret it, but I've never been convinced that Irrational meant the game to be a commentary on other games, and while that explains why that moment happens in a kind of meta-narrative way, it doesn't explain the Lutece's motivations for it.

Moderator
#11 Posted by postnothing (65 posts) -

@gamer_152: Actually, my original question was why did the developers present you with a choice. I'm sorry, I was distracted by the Game of the Year videos, and I forgot what I asked. Well, I have always thought that the Luteces were testing the constants and variables, as evident in their dialogue.

As for the meta-commentry, well, I felt the futility of the choices ties into the ending, which basically voids everything you've done throughout the game. Elizabeth said something to the effect of "we swim in different oceans, but land on the same shore", which describes the fatalistic nature of the story. The original Bioshock questioned player agency, so it's not far-fetched for Infinite to follow in its footsteps.

#12 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4700 posts) -

I picked Cage as I felt the pin looked nicer.

#13 Posted by crithon (3441 posts) -

huh? dove? Actually dove is typically this design

they can all look how they want to look, it's art, but I'd say this is the most typical design seen on any iconography, especially all of religious iconography of the game.

But considering how the game uses Iconography, I'd say it resembles more of a Sparrow.

#14 Posted by Jedted (2409 posts) -

...the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Wow! I did not notice that, during random cutscenes i would look at her neck and see the Bird but i don't remember it changing at any point.

#15 Edited by NTM (7540 posts) -

I was just watching the original gameplay footage, and look at the difference from the those to the real game. I mean, wow. Interesting as well, you can look at them as the alternate worlds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCxGPc9BZU8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBwKO4RFOU

It's unfortunate, because I think I like these better than the actual game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJV5ReOSjF0

Oh, and on topic, yes, I chose it for the exact same reason, but to not spoil anything major, none of the choices you make throughout the game has any effect whatsoever.

#16 Edited by NTM (7540 posts) -

@jedted said:

@gamer_152 said:

...the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Wow! I did not notice that, during random cutscenes i would look at her neck and see the Bird but i don't remember it changing at any point.

Actually, that Elizabeth's not wearing one at all.

#17 Posted by Forcen (1854 posts) -

What about the play the music to stop the bird from attacking you? C A G E? Does that change?

#18 Posted by Gamer_152 (14109 posts) -

@ntm said:

@jedted said:

@gamer_152 said:

...the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Wow! I did not notice that, during random cutscenes i would look at her neck and see the Bird but i don't remember it changing at any point.

Actually, that Elizabeth's not wearing one at all.

That's not the part I was talking about. On closer inspection it may be a myth. Looking it up there are a bunch of people reporting that it does change and a bunch saying that it doesn't, so I really don't know what to think.

@forcen said:

What about the play the music to stop the bird from attacking you? C A G E? Does that change?

That doesn't change, I know that for sure.

Moderator
#19 Posted by Forcen (1854 posts) -

@gamer_152: I assumed it changed the note she got from her future old self. Shame, would have been cool.

#20 Edited by Gamer_152 (14109 posts) -

@forcen said:

@gamer_152: I assumed it changed the note she got from her future old self. Shame, would have been cool.

Yeah, but it would have been much harder to implement, and it's hard to see what different set of notes they could have used. I can't really think of any obvious selection of four letters from A-G which represent a bird.

Moderator
#21 Posted by StarvingGamer (8544 posts) -

@forcen said:

@gamer_152: I assumed it changed the note she got from her future old self. Shame, would have been cool.

Yeah, but it would have been much harder to implement, and it's hard to see what different set of notes they could have used. I can't really think of any obvious selection of four letters from A-G which represent a bird.

Also by that point you've already heard the song at least once.

Online
#22 Posted by NTM (7540 posts) -

@ntm said:

@jedted said:

@gamer_152 said:

...the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Wow! I did not notice that, during random cutscenes i would look at her neck and see the Bird but i don't remember it changing at any point.

Actually, that Elizabeth's not wearing one at all.

That's not the part I was talking about. On closer inspection it may be a myth. Looking it up there are a bunch of people reporting that it does change and a bunch saying that it doesn't, so I really don't know what to think.

@forcen said:

What about the play the music to stop the bird from attacking you? C A G E? Does that change?

That doesn't change, I know that for sure.

So, what you're saying is, later in the game, the Elizabeth you're with, at some point in the game changes? Hm. I beat it four times now, but perhaps I'll have to inspect it more when and if I go through it again. At what point would it change though? After you take the thing out of her back? Some people have also made the assumption and perceived that throughout the campaign, you don't play as the same Booker.

#23 Edited by ana1395 (10 posts) -
@ntm said:

@gamer_152 said:

@ntm said:

@jedted said:

@gamer_152 said:

...the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Wow! I did not notice that, during random cutscenes i would look at her neck and see the Bird but i don't remember it changing at any point.

Actually, that Elizabeth's not wearing one at all.

That's not the part I was talking about. On closer inspection it may be a myth. Looking it up there are a bunch of people reporting that it does change and a bunch saying that it doesn't, so I really don't know what to think.

@forcen said:

What about the play the music to stop the bird from attacking you? C A G E? Does that change?

That doesn't change, I know that for sure.

So, what you're saying is, later in the game, the Elizabeth you're with, at some point in the game changes? Hm. I beat it four times now, but perhaps I'll have to inspect it more when and if I go through it again. At what point would it change though? After you take the thing out of her back? Some people have also made the assumption and perceived that throughout the campaign, you don't play as the same Booker.

Every time you die you continue playing with another Booker (the Luteces explain that the other Bookers failed because they died, so logically, when your character dies it fails and another Booker takes his place.), not #123.

#24 Posted by NTM (7540 posts) -

@ana1395 said:
@ntm said:

@gamer_152 said:

@ntm said:

@jedted said:

@gamer_152 said:

...the choice is actually about cluing you in to the whole reality-jumping trick the Luteces have going on and during the ending you can see at one point that Elizabeth is wearing an opposite pendant from the one you picked, indicating that she's not "your" Elizabeth.

Wow! I did not notice that, during random cutscenes i would look at her neck and see the Bird but i don't remember it changing at any point.

Actually, that Elizabeth's not wearing one at all.

That's not the part I was talking about. On closer inspection it may be a myth. Looking it up there are a bunch of people reporting that it does change and a bunch saying that it doesn't, so I really don't know what to think.

@forcen said:

What about the play the music to stop the bird from attacking you? C A G E? Does that change?

That doesn't change, I know that for sure.

So, what you're saying is, later in the game, the Elizabeth you're with, at some point in the game changes? Hm. I beat it four times now, but perhaps I'll have to inspect it more when and if I go through it again. At what point would it change though? After you take the thing out of her back? Some people have also made the assumption and perceived that throughout the campaign, you don't play as the same Booker.

Every time you die you continue playing with another Booker (the Luteces explain that the other Bookers failed because they died, so logically, when your character dies it fails and another Booker takes his place.), not #123.

Yep.

#25 Posted by Dixavd (1369 posts) -

I picked the cage because the Bird isn't in the Cage and is in fact free (hence why I think the Bird pendant doesn't represent freedom as you're imprisoning it inside the pendant). Guess I'm in the minority about that.*

*I know I'm ignoring the main point of this thread - but I just wanted to point out this since the default position of most people in this thread is that the Bird is the free one.

#26 Posted by JayEH (538 posts) -

I picked the cage because I think I liked the way it looked? I don't remember.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.