Let's Discuss BioShock Infinite (HUGE SPOILERS)

#301 Posted by pyrodactyl (2341 posts) -
@realph said:

The Lutece's both travel back in time after the exchange of Anna/Elizabeth (but before their deaths I believe) and guide a now damaged Booker to the lighthouse to "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt". I'm not sure why they do this, some help here would be appreciated.

They just want to avoid the ''world on fire'' timeline.

#302 Posted by pyrodactyl (2341 posts) -

@ghostiet said:

@gaminghooligan said:

@beachthunder said:

Can someone shed light on who this is:

for real. I assume the note on the map was for him, but who killed him? Lutece? If so why all the torture stuff?

He's possibly an assassin sent to kill Booker right after he enters the lighthouse - there's a note signed by a "C" in the lighthouse. Rosalind probably iced him.

Who is C and could the Lutece really do that kind of toture set-up?

#303 Edited by Sagalla (218 posts) -

I just want to add that you don't really need alternate timelines or dimensions to be a literal reality for the story to work. I mean that Booker selling his daughter to pay off a debt was a traumatic experience that he couldn't remember until you experience that moment in the story. So the talk of alternate timelines or dimensions can function as a prelude to that revelation, as they untangle the mess within Booker's mind to the point where he can experience the truth. Then at the end he realizes that the things he hated about Comstock were things he himself was guilty of... When he sold his daughter it's like putting her in a bank, where she is siphoned off to pay interest like an asset... Whereas Booker imprisons his daughter for financial concerns Comstock does it for misguided spiritual concerns, and at the end of the day they amount to the same thing :)

#304 Posted by TomA (2531 posts) -

Ok that makes sense for the most part when it's all laid out in front of me like that. While playing, the game does not explain alot of that stuff very well. I honestly fucking hate needlessly complicated stories like this, it took away some of the fun of the game. Columbia was super cool and I wish they could have just gone with a more simple story.

#305 Edited by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

I just finished this and holy shit; MIND BLOWN.

#306 Posted by SecondPersonShooter (619 posts) -

@ghostiet said:

@gaminghooligan said:

@beachthunder said:

Can someone shed light on who this is:

for real. I assume the note on the map was for him, but who killed him? Lutece? If so why all the torture stuff?

He's possibly an assassin sent to kill Booker right after he enters the lighthouse - there's a note signed by a "C" in the lighthouse. Rosalind probably iced him.

Who is C and could the Lutece really do that kind of toture set-up?

There's no evidence at all as to the identity of the man, but I think it's safe to say that it was planted by Leutice to give further credence the the false memory being implanted in Booker.

In the beginning canoe ride the Leutice's are specifically talking about the experiment they are performing with his memories by merging the timelines.

Tangent here, I really think the Leutice's are the most fascinating characters in the entire game. They exist outside of the normal reaches of time and space, and take on this omniscient status. Since they pulled Booker into the alternate "Comstock" reality, they are actually the catalysts that set all of the games events into motion? What was their motivation for this? They seem pretty apathetic to the entire situation, it seems that all of the games events transpired as just an experiment for the Leutice's, for their entertainment and curiosity.

#307 Edited by 8Bit_Archer (461 posts) -

Dat Game was good :D thats all I want to say.

#308 Posted by SSully (4315 posts) -

@toma said:

Ok that makes sense for the most part when it's all laid out in front of me like that. While playing, the game does not explain alot of that stuff very well. I honestly fucking hate needlessly complicated stories like this, it took away some of the fun of the game. Columbia was super cool and I wish they could have just gone with a more simple story.

If many people here have been able to put the story together with relative ease, do you think that maybe you just weren't paying attention or it just didn't click with you personally? I would hate if Irrational took out this games story because you failed to understand it.....

#309 Edited by JazzyJeff (403 posts) -

@secondpersonshooter: Seems to me they are just experimenting over and over again. They may not care about the events of the game at all from a moral standpoint.

#310 Edited by Paindamnation (818 posts) -

Agree, great game.

Very good write up by the way.

I believe she was locked away because she had tendency to open up tears (I guess thanks to her being born in other dimension) so they build the tower and the siphon to stop her from doing it.

Still can't figure out the scientists. AFAIR they were separated in different timelines for some reason. How did that happen initially? What about them coming back from the dead? I mean it's their alternate timeline versions, but why? What do they want?

The remark to original Bioshock with lighthouses - I did not get it. It was kinda cool, but the story there is quite different, isn't it? Still it confuses me. I really wanna know what it's supposed to mean, but it doesn't make sense to me =\

The bad Elizabeth and burning New York - why did the message had to be so ... unclear? Why not just say play the notes C, A, G, E? What happened to Booker in that hospital? I mean he was chasing Songbird and then was thrown forward and backward in time a lot while looking for her. WTF was that? The scientists interfering? What do they even want?

I got the same ending as you (being drowned), but I think it might depend on some of the choices during the game. The once I remember: I chose heads for the coin toss, I chose bird necklace, I let the army ex-friend live ... was there more? I also killed some innocent civilians. Maybe there is a better ending?

I'm not going through 300 posts to find if this is answered already for you, but the necklace around Elizabeth's neck is irrelevant, I have the Strategy guide which states it only marks as a cosmetic thing.

#311 Edited by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@secondpersonshooter said:

I'm just gonna come in here to throw out my theory that Booker Dewitt may be Andrew Ryan in an alternate universe

Discuss?

I'd say he is Subject Delta. There is a direct parallel between Delta-Eleanor and Booker-Elizabeth. He's also Jack, in the sense that he begins his journey at a lighthouse and has false memories.

Although by extension, he also is Ryan and Sofia Lamb, since Comstock is also the revolutionary founder who betrays all of his principles and aims to turn her daughter into an all-powerful abomination. Both Ryan and Comstock even kill their mistress/wife after she works against him.

@golguin said:

What if I told you that Elizabeth does exist in the game? She is on the left hand side when the other Alt Elizabeth's start to show up. Her hair is the giveaway.

This is doubly amazing considering the game's theme and how little of those trailers remains in the final product - I can't shake the feeling that there is a double whammy of metacommentary here.

@pyrodactyl: "C" would be Comstock, I presume.

@jazzyjeff: I don't think that they regard it purely as an experiment. Rosalind specifically calls Booker their hair shirt - a sign of penance

@paindamnation: Well, not completely irrelevant - it's meant to showcase the "variations" and highlight that the Elizabeth you see at the end is one from a different universe.

#312 Posted by StarvingGamer (8546 posts) -

@ghostiet said:

@secondpersonshooter said:

I'm just gonna come in here to throw out my theory that Booker Dewitt may be Andrew Ryan in an alternate universe

Discuss?

I'd say he is Subject Delta. There is a direct parallel between Delta-Eleanor and Booker-Elizabeth. He's also Jack, in the sense that he begins his journey at a lighthouse and has false memories.

Although by extension, he also is Ryan and Sofia Lamb, since Comstock is also the revolutionary founder who betrays all of his principles and aims to turn her daughter into an all-powerful abomination. Both Ryan and Comstock even kill their mistress/wife after she works against him.

There's a woman near the beginning of the game describing a man to the police and IIRC they're making of sketch of him and the sketch is of Ryan. Dunno if that means anything.

#313 Edited by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@starvinggamer: The woman is describing him as a dude with ginger curly hair, so I'm wondering if it isn't just a joke - especially since I can't see much of a connection, apart from their ability to use the bathysphere which could also be easily explained by Elizabeth being a god.

#314 Edited by EggplantWizard (7 posts) -

So like a lot of other players, I just finished it and felt that amazing feeling of being overwhelmed in the presence of greatness. As I started to dissect what I saw, I turned here to get what other people were thinking... So after reading through this thread, here are my questions:

1. Who is Elizabeth's Mom: So we know that Lady Comstock was not, and she even blamed Madame Letuce as being Comstock's mistress. Neither were her mom, and all we here is a conversation between Elizabeth and Booker where he reveals his wife was deceased. Given the events of the baptism being the crux of the two timelines, one birthing Comstock, the other turning Booker into a Private Investigator (did I read that door right, he's a PI?) I guess I'm kind of curious what the woman is like who married him given that he's basically going though a form of PTSD after Wounded Knee.

2. Where to from here? The script is masterful, but in a way limiting. While DLC and maybe even another title can explore the nuances of Columbia more, the infinite story lines in essence would seem to undercut any sense of urgency or seriousness a sequel might require. The reveal of the infinite is what makes this game have its heft. With that gone, well, what else is there? It seems like a dead end with the way it played out here, and its cyclical nature. Doctor Who makes it work by being open ended and about exploration more than anything. Someone mentioned earlier how the ending basically retcons the entire game. While I don't have a problem with that when it used effectively, which I feel it was here, but I think it doesn't bode well for future games in the franchise. Given the sales and reviews for this one, you know one will come eventually. Here's hoping it does the series proud.

I'd love to hear thoughts.

#315 Posted by BeachThunder (12391 posts) -

I assume Vigor technology was derived by observing Rapture's Plasmids; so, come there aren't any splicers in Columbia? Also, even if they aren't the same as Plasmids, they certainly work in a very similar way - what allowed Columbians to safely consume Vigors, while Rapturians suffered from consuming Plasmids?

#316 Posted by EuanDewar (5098 posts) -

@golguin said:

@khazidhea said:

I didn't realize how much Elizabeth changed since debut trailer.

Also if you look at the first 10 min demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_DSfjAdhlU

I love the combat there. I used vigors very rarely. I pretty much used machine gun and sniper rifle. Shock versus big guys, levitation thing vs masses. But in here the combination of spells is really good. Plus this manipulation spell like in original Bioshock - I could never get magnetic shield work in the same way and you get it soooo late in the game.

Also notice how the changed the story a little bit. How npcs go from "normal" to "insane" and start attacking. Plus weird things like lady brushing when the house is on fire - people being phased out, it's kinda cool.

Also look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=e9cM9IXOofQ

Notice how Elizabeth is bad at controlling tears. I'd love to explore that. The other thing that I noticed is how young Comstock is on the portrait and how Elizabeth is going to Comstock to ask for help.

What if I told you that Elizabeth does exist in the game? She is on the left hand side when the other Alt Elizabeth's start to show up. Her hair is the giveaway.

....

DUDE WHAT THE FUCK

#317 Posted by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@beachthunder said:

I assume Vigor technology was derived by observing Rapture's Plasmids; so, come there aren't any splicers in Columbia? Also, even if they aren't the same as Plasmids, they certainly work in a very similar way - what allowed Columbians to safely consume Vigors, while Rapturians suffered from consuming Plasmids?

But we don't really see many consumers of Vigors in Columbia - isn't it implied that it's only been introduced during the raffle? The only confirmed ones are the Raven brotherhood, the Firemen and Slate. Also, a lot of people got crazy out of splicing through cosmetic surgery, which doesn't seem to be really a thing in Columbia.

#319 Edited by BeachThunder (12391 posts) -

Just so everyone can see; this is all the Annas at the end:

@ghostiet: Hm, fair point.

#320 Edited by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@beachthunder: I clapped when I saw her. I love that they went slightly meta with the number of different iterations the game went through.

#321 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I assume Vigor technology was derived by observing Rapture's Plasmids; so, come there aren't any splicers in Columbia? Also, even if they aren't the same as Plasmids, they certainly work in a very similar way - what allowed Columbians to safely consume Vigors, while Rapturians suffered from consuming Plasmids?

I thought that Plasmids made an actual biological change to the subject which was supposed to be permanent, a mutation, and that EVE was addictive and caused physical and mental dependency (I didn't play much of the original Bioshock so...)? I don't think that Columbia has access to a crap-ton of sea slug stem cells so I suspect that Vigors are nonpermanent and really not as useful to Columbian society as Plasmids were to Rapture, you don't see a whole lot of the enemies using them anyway.

#322 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I didn't realize how much Elizabeth changed since debut trailer.

Also if you look at the first 10 min demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_DSfjAdhlU

I love the combat there. I used vigors very rarely. I pretty much used machine gun and sniper rifle. Shock versus big guys, levitation thing vs masses. But in here the combination of spells is really good. Plus this manipulation spell like in original Bioshock - I could never get magnetic shield work in the same way and you get it soooo late in the game.

Also notice how the changed the story a little bit. How npcs go from "normal" to "insane" and start attacking. Plus weird things like lady brushing when the house is on fire - people being phased out, it's kinda cool.

Also look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=e9cM9IXOofQ

Notice how Elizabeth is bad at controlling tears. I'd love to explore that. The other thing that I noticed is how young Comstock is on the portrait and how Elizabeth is going to Comstock to ask for help.

I really, really hate looking at old E3 demos after games have come out. These two videos are great examples of why; They are just reminders of how awesome games could have been if they hadn't had to make compromises for time or budget or tech concerns. Seeing how crazy the skyrail combat is in those demos and how neat the moments with tears are outside of combat, as well as all the great environmental design just makes the actual game look much less interesting.

#323 Posted by stoydell (58 posts) -

@thur: I'm pretty sure that through all of Comstock's dimension hopping, we're to assume that he saw Booker coming through a tear, and set everything up for when he came to Columbia.

#324 Posted by BeachThunder (12391 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@khazidhea said:

I didn't realize how much Elizabeth changed since debut trailer.

Also if you look at the first 10 min demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_DSfjAdhlU

I love the combat there. I used vigors very rarely. I pretty much used machine gun and sniper rifle. Shock versus big guys, levitation thing vs masses. But in here the combination of spells is really good. Plus this manipulation spell like in original Bioshock - I could never get magnetic shield work in the same way and you get it soooo late in the game.

Also notice how the changed the story a little bit. How npcs go from "normal" to "insane" and start attacking. Plus weird things like lady brushing when the house is on fire - people being phased out, it's kinda cool.

Also look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=e9cM9IXOofQ

Notice how Elizabeth is bad at controlling tears. I'd love to explore that. The other thing that I noticed is how young Comstock is on the portrait and how Elizabeth is going to Comstock to ask for help.

I really, really hate looking at old E3 demos after games have come out. These two videos are great examples of why; They are just reminders of how awesome games could have been if they hadn't had to make compromises for time or budget or tech concerns. Seeing how crazy the skyrail combat is in those demos and how neat the moments with tears are outside of combat, as well as all the great environmental design just makes the actual game look much less interesting.

I was really hanging out for Elizabeth's Abe Lincoln impersonation =(

#325 Posted by Daneian (1251 posts) -

Outside of trying to figure out the large puzzlebox, what do you guys think the game is actually trying to say or ask? I am kind of coming away from it thinking that its a metaphor for all videogames, that we just keep playing the same games over and over with different heroes, different villains and different princesses. I mean, every time anyone plays Infinite, they will have their own variation- the same constants and variables- on the same core experiance. Though we make different choices, we largely go through the same scenarios, just like in Bioshock, Bioshock 2, Super Mario, Legend of Zelda...

#326 Edited by CollegeGuyMike (392 posts) -

@beachthunder said:

I assume Vigor technology was derived by observing Rapture's Plasmids; so, come there aren't any splicers in Columbia? Also, even if they aren't the same as Plasmids, they certainly work in a very similar way - what allowed Columbians to safely consume Vigors, while Rapturians suffered from consuming Plasmids?

Well, I thought it was implied that during the fair they were *just* starting to introduce Vigors to the general Columbian population. Maybe it's also the difference between being consumed or being injected and the things that power them; Salts instead of EVE?

#327 Edited by KatyGaGa (319 posts) -

I just finished. can someone please explain to me:

Who wanted Booker to get Elizabeth back from Comstock and why? the Luteces or Comstock?

What caused Anna/Elizabeth to be taken away the first time? in other words, what happened in the first place to start everything?

Why does Comstock want what he wants?

#328 Edited by Oni (2110 posts) -

@katygaga said:

I just finished. can someone please explain to me:

Who wanted Booker to get Elizabeth back from Comstock and why? the Luteces or Comstock?

What caused Anna/Elizabeth to be taken away the first time? in other words, what happened in the first place to start everything?

Why does Comstock want what he wants?

When Booker was baptized in 1891 after the Wounded Knee Massacre, he became Comstock. Turned into a religious zealot, met up with Rosalind Lutece and used her tears to see other dimensions, thus proclaiming himself a prophet. She in turn used his money to further her research.
In an alternate universe, Booker rejected the baptism. He had Anna in 1893. Comstock, unable to reproduce due to his sterility (which came from messing with tear devices), wanted a child of his own, thus he took Booker's with the aid of Rosalind Lutece and Robert Lutece, who are the same person, just born male in Booker's universe. Later on, male Lutece regrets the mess they've caused and decides to send Booker after his daughter (Elizabeth/Anna) in Comstock's universe in 1912. At this point the Luteces are scattered across timespace because Comstock had them killed by having Fink rig their machine, with that as the result.
Comstock, well that's a long story. PTSD+baptism+a god/martyr complex is a hell of a thing. I recommend another playthrough, there's a lot to pick up on in dialogue and audiologs.

#329 Posted by KatyGaGa (319 posts) -

@oni: yeah, I need to play it again.

thanks for the write-up. one more question though, why would the Luteces send Booker to retrieve Elizabeth/Anna from Comstock's universe? Isn't that the least effective and stupidest way to deal with things? Surely the Luteces would know that the whole thing started with the baptism, so why didn't they just go there to begin with?

its kind of like The Terminator, with Kyle Reese. The machines should have just killed Kyle Reese (thereby killing John Connor ) in the future without all the fuss and muss of time travel.

#330 Posted by JeanLuc (3608 posts) -
@ghostiet said:

@beachthunder: I clapped when I saw her. I love that they went slightly meta with the number of different iterations the game went through.

Oh shit I didn't even realize they put the original version of Elizabeth in there. That's fucking genius!

#331 Posted by Oni (2110 posts) -

@katygaga said:

@oni: yeah, I need to play it again.

thanks for the write-up. one more question though, why would the Luteces send Booker to retrieve Elizabeth/Anna from Comstock's universe? Isn't that the least effective and stupidest way to deal with things? Surely the Luteces would know that the whole thing started with the baptism, so why didn't they just go there to begin with?

its kind of like The Terminator, with Kyle Reese. The machines should have just killed Kyle Reese (thereby killing John Connor ) in the future without all the fuss and muss of time travel.

They weren't there at the baptism, I'd imagine they don't know the root point of the Comstock/Booker split.

#332 Posted by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@katygaga said:

thanks for the write-up. one more question though, why would the Luteces send Booker to retrieve Elizabeth/Anna from Comstock's universe? Isn't that the least effective and stupidest way to deal with things? Surely the Luteces would know that the whole thing started with the baptism, so why didn't they just go there to begin with?

its kind of like The Terminator, with Kyle Reese. The machines should have just killed Kyle Reese (thereby killing John Connor ) in the future without all the fuss and muss of time travel.

But they didn't know where the splitting point is. And even if, the implication is that it all required someone who is, essentially, a physical god to perform - Elizabeth is able to manipulate realities, not just phase into new ones or create them. The Luteces would probably just make a third split, while the point was to completely erase the Comstock timelines.

#333 Posted by Irvandus (2878 posts) -

@dallas_raines said:

@turambar said:

2/3rds of my way through the game, I got to the point where you meet the older Elizabeth, and I've come to this conclusion. This game is basically a JRPG in terms of plot, which leads me to be rather surprised at the generous reception it seems to be getting from many people. (I'm personally enjoying it quite a bit despite it being of a gameplay genre I will never enjoy on a fundamental level.)

Yeah, it's like a JRPG, but without the horrific anime dialog and repetitive archetypes that drag down so many of those games. Also, you don't defeat God or a physical manifestation of depression/evil/hopelessness in a duel.

That's DLC.

Yeah you go to another reality where you place as Comstock and you fight Devil Abraham Lincoln

#334 Posted by Paindamnation (818 posts) -

@ghostiet: Quoted text from the guide"This choice, unlike the one you made at the raffle, has only superficial significance: which pendant would you like dangling from Elizabeth's choker? :Choose the cameo you want Elizabeth to wear for the rest of the game:,

Though to your point I choose bird because I wanted her to be free, I couldn't say much that hasn't already been said a thousand times, but I knew comstock's daughter was elizabeth, I figured something was happening with the luteces, -because i gathered 76/80 voxo's. As well as I only think there were 3 or 4 good/bad choices in the game. Like the prompt that says" If you steal it could have consequences", implying you steal someone is going to attack. Also the "Skull sign finishers" make Elizabeth say "oh God" each time I did it.

#335 Posted by Phatmac (5726 posts) -

Thanks for this guys. I think I finally get it now. :)

#336 Posted by RedRoach (1211 posts) -

So I understand most of the time travel/multiverse type stuff. The one thing I'm confused about is the actual end. What was accomplished by killing Booker? Why did Elizabeth(s) want to kill him, knowing she would cease to exist in the process? Now that I think about ti when they were at the baptism, was that considered in the past? Even though it was Booker that had already had a daughter and went through the game?

And how did the Booker you play as not remember Comstock? And not remember his daughter's pinky when he saw Elizabeth for the first time? And the fucking tear in the alleyway?

#337 Edited by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@paindamnation: I wasn't saying that it changes anything, I was just saying that its "uselessness" is a plot point.

@redroach: Elizabeth drowns him in the dimension where Booker accepted the baptism at the very moment of getting submerged in water. This way, they don't create just another offshoot of the "rejection" timeline, but completely cut the Comstock timeline at its very conception; you must remember that all the "Booker in Columbia" timelines are only created through the events of the game. This also kills all of the Booker timelines and creates a new one where Booker still had Anna, but he never had the opportunity to sell her to Comstock - in the stinger, he wakes up at the very day he gave her away.

Booker loses his memory when he crosses over to the Comstock universe - presumably because he is brought in against his will, through manipulation.

#338 Edited by golguin (4040 posts) -

@redroach said:

So I understand most of the time travel/multiverse type stuff. The one thing I'm confused about is the actual end. What was accomplished by killing Booker? Why did Elizabeth(s) want to kill him, knowing she would cease to exist in the process? Now that I think about ti when they were at the baptism, was that considered in the past? Even though it was Booker that had already had a daughter and went through the game?

And how did the Booker you play as not remember Comstock? And not remember his daughter's pinky when he saw Elizabeth for the first time? And the fucking tear in the alleyway?

"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."

Barriers to Trans-Dimensional Travel

Crossing into a new reality causes your brain to make up new memories to deal with the change. The male Lutece experienced the same thing. They explain it when they pull him in at the end in the scene.

#339 Posted by RedRoach (1211 posts) -

@ghostiet: Okay, I never did see the post-credits stinger.

So lets see if I get this now: By drowning Booker at the baptism the Comstock timeline never begins, which means the "rejection" Booker never had the opportunity to give away Ana to the Comstock timeline. So the stinger we saw was basically of the rejection timeline without the interference of the Comstock timeline.

So what happens to the Booker you play as? How does killing current Booker (the one we played as) stop the Comstock version of Booker from existing. Because if you just went back in time to that spot wouldn't there be two Bookers standing there at the baptism?

Also, does this solve anything? Wouldn't there still be an infinite number of paired universes in which the exact same problem is happening?

I definitely ned to play through this game again, I imagine this game will be discussed for years, and I look forward to a very long and detailed explanation of all of this many months form now.

#340 Edited by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@redroach said:

So what happens to the Booker you play as? How does killing current Booker (the one we played as) stop the Comstock version of Booker from existing. Because if you just went back in time to that spot wouldn't there be two Bookers standing there at the baptism?

Also, does this solve anything? Wouldn't there still be an infinite number of paired universes in which the exact same problem is happening?

Elizabeth is a reality warper - she has the ability to manipulate the multiverse and create new universes instead of just entering them or opening the pathways. She's not going back in time as much as putting that new reality into continuity.

From what I understand, there are only two main realities - Comstock's and Booker's. The other 120+ are created, as I understand, from the Luteces' interference. They go to the Booker reality and take Booker to Comstock's, 1912, which creates a new reality where that happened. Booker makes his choices and fails, so they do the same thing once again, since they created a stable loop. In my understanding, they only multiply the "Booker is in Columbia to find Elizabeth" universe. Through removing Comstock, they retroactively kill that entire loop.

#341 Posted by elpurplemonkey (154 posts) -

@eggplantwizard: Ken Levine and Irrational have built up such a pedigree, that they don't really have to do anything they don't want to. After Bioshock, they didn't want to do Bioshock 2- so they didn't. I can't imagine that team wanting to do Infinite 2, so they won't. I presume they'll take a bit of a break and then move on to another IP. You're right that they didn't leave themselves anywhere to go from here- I think that was the point though. They've told the story they wanted to tell, now they can do anything else they want. Take Two on the other hand, they might give us an Infinite 2 even if no one wants it.

#342 Posted by Ghostiet (5306 posts) -

@elpurplemonkey: BioShock 2 turned out pretty good and it basically gave us the Infinite plot, so I don't know, if someone else has a good idea where to go with this, I'm on board.

#343 Edited by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: Lutece is the best part of this game hands down. imo

#344 Edited by thefriend (165 posts) -

I think this will clear things up a bit.

1. Booker DeWitt slaughters Indians at Wounded Knee

2. Booker DeWitt feels guilty as fuck about it, and goes to get baptized

TIMELINE SPLIT:

3. Booker DeWitt BACKS OUT AT THE LAST MINUTE!

4. Booker DeWitt marries, has a child, wife dies in childbirth

5. Booker DeWitt takes on gigantic gambling debts in his grief and sells his daughter Anna to a dude named "Comstock" to pay it off

6. Booker DeWitt tries to back out of the deal at the last minute, but fails

7. Booker DeWitt brands AD into his hand out of guilt

8. Booker DeWitt is offered a chance to get his daughter back

IN ALT UNIVERSE:

3. Booker DeWitt is baptized and takes on the name ZACHARY HALE COMSTOCK.

4. Zachary Hale Comstock meets Rosalind Lutece, super-scienist

5. Using her dimension-portal, he sees the future and uses this knowledge to build himself a massive following as a prophet

6. Columbia

7. Comstock saw a future where his child rains fire down on the "Sodom below," but see it turns out he's sterile; how is he going to fulfill that future?

8. Comstock sees an alternate version of himself that never became baptized, and buys "his" daughter

TIMELINES MERGE:

9. Booker DeWitt is brought to Comstock's timeline, but the merge fucks with his memory and all he can remember is "bring us the girl, wipe away the debt;" Elizabeth is assumed to be just some girl

10. The Game Happens

11. Elizabeth is not content with simply stopping Comstock in her own timeline; she wants him completely gone from all realities

12. So she does some time lord god magic and merges all timelines into their origin point at the baptism, and drowns Booker, preventing him from ever becoming Comstock and eliminating all relevant realities

---------------------------------------------------

But then there's more! After the credits it shows Booker back in his room with possibly the baby Elizabeth in the crib. So it's possible the ending is more happy than multi-dimentionally depressing.

#345 Edited by elpurplemonkey (154 posts) -

@ghostiet: I actually did enjoy Bioshock 2, as unnecessary as it was- it's a quality game. But how did it give us the infinite plot? Been a while since I played it but I recall it was a more personal story about Alpha, the first big daddy. Really don't remember any mention of inter dimensional travel in that one. Was something mentioned in Minerva's Den?

And while it'd be nice to explore more of Colombia in a potential sequel- considering the way infinite wraps up, I don't know how any story set there can have any real weight behind it.

#346 Edited by BeachThunder (12391 posts) -

@thefriend: Thanks for writing all that out; it's nice to see it all written out so plainly.

#347 Edited by golguin (4040 posts) -

@ghostiet: I actually did enjoy Bioshock 2, as unnecessary as it was- it's a quality game. But how did it give us the infinite plot? Been a while since I played it but I recall it was a more personal story about Alpha, the first big daddy. Really don't remember any mention of inter dimensional travel in that one. Was something mentioned in Minerva's Den?

And while it'd be nice to explore more of Colombia in a potential sequel- considering the way infinite wraps up, I don't know how any story set there can have any real weight behind it.

Bioshock 2 is a closer analogue to Bioshock Infinite in terms of the possibilities Elizabeth presents concerning the multiverse. Characters are more easily switched in and out to fulfill their roles.

#348 Edited by EXTomar (4940 posts) -

I'm not sure the twist was revealed to late where I view it more as they couldn't reveal the "fix" till the very end. I had the feeling Booker was Comstock and there was hints all over the place that Booker was never setup but Comstock simply knew everything because he did it already where "The Prophet" thing was shown to bunk a couple of times. It was cinched for me when you finished the stuff in the Hall of Heroes with Slate where he kept mentioning how "Comstock wasn't there" but he was rewriting his past.

The real loop throw for me was discovering that Booker really was Elizabeth's father where I just assumed that in one time line Anna was the wife while in the other Comstock needed a child for his mad plan to work and just stole or discovered one with extraordinary power. I just assumed Booker had fallen to hard for him to have a child while Comstock was too insane or sick to do it normally.

I too wonder where the DLC goes. Although the implication that the possibilities are unlimited, the place where the main characters end up are "fixed". Personally this feels more like the "franchise start" where I and ready to see them play the ideas laid out but I'm not sure it makes sense to include Elizabeth or Booker.

#349 Posted by awesomeusername (4216 posts) -

@eggplantwizard: Elizabeth's mom was Booker's wife. She was just a woman from Booker's world. No one important. She died, I don't know how. I think while giving birth?

There won't be a sequel. At least from Irrational. They made it clear they didn't want to do Bioshock 2 and they didn't. So expect a new Bioshock in 5 years with a whole new world and such.

#350 Posted by wefwefasdf (6729 posts) -

12. So she does some time lord god magic and merges all timelines into their origin point at the baptism, and drowns Booker, preventing him from ever becoming Comstock and eliminating all relevant realities

Ahh! This has been confusing me since I finished the game earlier today. I was wondering how drowning Booker would affect all the other timelines, but now realizing she has the ability to merge possible worlds makes it all make sense now.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.