I'm going to avoid your questions, but I'm also going to suggest that you play 999 and Virtue's Last Reward.

I doubt even Ken Levine himself has the answers to these questions.

i think its a lot left to interpretation,

As soon as this game became a dimension-hopping time-jumping twisty story, I knew that things like this would pop up.

To be honest, there's not really much of an answer because we can't fully understand the mechanics involved. Can anyone really explain why that particular decision causes a split timeline in the first place? Couldn't there also have been a split before Booker decided to join the military? Or one at Wounded Knee?

@believer258: Yeah, that's the thing. There seem to be infinite realities (for every possible combination of constants and variables, as explained in that lighthouse part), but when you think about it like that the whole idea begins to fall apart.

Yeah this sort of complicated, abstract "quantum sci-fi" plot elements are hardly ever without plot holes, but usually are founded on the principle that the human mind does not fully grasp them due to their complexity of cosmic magnitude and therefore get something of a pass. I wouldn't advise letting this pet peeve of yours get in the way of the plot though.

I want to play it again to see if there are indeed plot holes, or if the plot truly makes complete sense.

this kind of post saddens me a great deal. It reminds me of people going "HERP DERP WHY DOES SHEPARD DREAM ABOUT THAT ONE KID IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE" when in reality, it makes perfect sense. The child represented humanity, and chasing the kid, trying to save the kid, represented his inability to "save them all." It's really elementary symbolism.

The same can be said for the ending of BioShock Infinite. Booker isn't really being drowned, it's him following through with the baptism proper. He's letting go of his own sins that plagued him ever since Wounded Knee. The reason Comstock existed at all is because Booker, even when he did get baptised, couldn't let go of the monster he thought he was and felt he must atone for it. His racism/fascism in Columbia also ties into it - him being a good Christian man, he couldn't handle seeing non-whites as human beings with thoughts and feelings like his own, as the true weight of what he did at Wounded Knee would probably break his mind if that were the case.

A major theme (I'd argue THE major theme) of Infinite is forgiveness. Not atonement, but forgiveness. Booker needed to be forgiven for the shit he did, and because nobody knew the true weight of what he did, his baptism was hollow and he still felt "unclean" as a result. That's why Comstock is the bastard he is without really knowing it. Him "drowning" at the end is him realizing that yes, he can be forgiven, and that what really matters is the forgiveness of his daughter Anna. He gets that in the baptism scene at the end, which is why he can finally let go of the ghosts in his past and he gets the chance to try again.

If you notice, the only Elizabeth that doesn't disappear is "our" Elizabeth. The one that was taken from Booker, his "real" daughter. The post-credits scene spells it out more clearly as it shows Booker "waking up" from a night of boozing to see the date is 1893, the year Anna was taken. He opens the door and the mobile is heard and boom, fade to black. It's up to us to interpret whether he's looping back to the beginning or if the circle is broken and he finally has the chance to be the father his daughter deserved.

I like to think he did break the cycle. For it to just be the prelude of "another loop" is just too cynical. Too wasteful.

I believe that the dimensions in Infinite are not truly "infinite", as shown throughout the game there were certain predetermined events that would occur with 100% certainty should they be allowed to. The coin always being "heads" is an example of this. In a truly infinite multiverse there would need to be one separate dimension for every possible outcome, but he doesn't row. The coin is always heads. He can wait as long as he wants, he always gives Anna up eventually.

With that in mind, the point where Booker does or does not become Comstock is a key juncture that creates a dimensional split. What I believe happened is Elizabeth essentially severed one of the trunks of that split with the help of Booker and his acceptance. "Are you sure?" The end result is a reshaping of the multiverse in a way where Booker doesn't go through with the baptism as that is the only viable trunk left.

@oldirtybearon: That's a cool take, never thought of it like that.

Elizabeth replaces the Comstock universe with one where Booker decides to go with the baptism, but dies in the process. She doesn't create a new reality where Booker decides to drown - she recreates it into one where Booker decides to be baptized and drowns. His death is the constant here.

This seems to me like a plausible answer. I'm totally cool with believing that since Elizabeth is "special" she can do things that other people cant do, and since SHE is the one who drowns Booker, it is her inter-dimensional super powered hand at play here, reshaping existing events without creating tangent universes as a result of "choice". With that little nugget taken care of, I really do believe the game is totally free of plot holes, and is kind of incredible in how well thought out it all is.

Also, @oldirtybearon I love that we can play a game like this, with crazy plot devices of space-time travel and mutiverse hopping, and still come up with completely sound and plausible explanations for it that doesnt revolve around any of that stuff! I dont subscribe to your theory myself, but it's a good one.

I dont know why people keep limiting themselves to "Universes A and B" when it should be "Universe 1 to the nth universe"

@fallen189: 1^n = 1

The real plot hole is,

Why is there even a game if Comstock never existed in any reality, ever? If Comstock never even existed, then this none of this should have happened, its the grandfather paradox.

@dagbiker: He did exist in several realities. He just doesnt any more. The grandfather paradox only exists in a linear timeline, but Elizabeth and the Luteces have the ability to exist outside of time as we know it.

I suggest that you check out some of the threads here because the whole multiverse concept is being discussed pretty nicely and explaining it here would just lead to copy/paste stuff that I said in all the other threads.

it is called bioshock INFINITE

We totally had no clue of that. Thank you for informing us.

I think that got answered in the game. When the different Elizabeth's appeared around Booker before his baptism, I think the game is trying to tell us that for every dimension that Booker decides to get baptized and become Comstock, the Elizabeth of that dimension helps him drown himself. Of course the game only showed a half dozen Elizabeth, but following the storyline logic, there would have been infinite amount of Elizabeth all drowning the to-be baptized Booker, only that it would have been hard to show that on screen.

Without getting too detailed: Once Booker made the choice to open that last door, and remember that Elizabeth ask him if he was sure, the events were fixed due to Elizabeth being there. She sees what is beyond the door which is all realities without Comstock.

They mention it a few times in a few different ways: Each time a person comes to something that would make them make a choice, each possible choice exists as reality branch. Each of those branched realities eventually branch off every time there is a new choice. Infinite branches based off that one branch, which is simply a branch off of infinite prior branches.

What has happened, though, is that the ending causes every possible reality branch past the baptism to cease to exist, and instead of being baptized, he dies. You'll notice that in earlier parts of that segment of scenes, Booker can't really change what he did in the past. However it is Elizabeth that actually changes what he did at this choice, by being the one who lowers him down.

The post credit scene is likely meant to show a branch of realities that would have existed on the prior choice to the baptism. That choice being "Do I go to the Baptism at all or not". All reality branches where he goes to the river baptism end in him dying instead of making a choice. However, all reality branches where he doesn't go to that river at all still have him alive.

This bothered me at well at first. Wouldn't there be a timeline where Elizabeth couldn't bring herself to drown Booker? This game does well to have a second playthrough to focus on the details of the story. @oldirtybearonis right as well. It not super important that all the details add up. It's important that the symbolism adds up.

Here's how I chose to reason it out though. For one, they say each world has constants and variables. Some things are literally the same. Do you remember the coin flip scene at the beginning of the game? I believe it is implied that an multiple numbers of Booker DeWitt's attempt to rescue Elizabeth. In some worlds they die, in some worlds other things happen, etc. And the Lutece's have a little experiment. What if we flip a coin at the same point in every timeline? Will there be some worlds where it is heads, and others where it will be tails? As you can see, it always is constant, it is always heads. Robert is pretty pleased about this. If you follow the differences between Robert and Rosalind, this fits too. Rosalind believes their quest is pointless, as there will always be a universe where they fail. But Robert doesn't think so. Not everything is a variable.

Also, Elizabeth gains the power to "see all the doors... and were they lead" She knows what she has to do to stop Comstock from existing.

But... she did create a paradox... How will she have the power to travel through time and space if Comstock never kidnaps her? Oh well. A paradox is fun sometimes.

@koolaid: Elizabeth works outside time and space. Also, there are no time loops, there are only multiple realities - so there is no grandfather paradox.

With The Siphon destroyed, Elizabeth is herself a paradox being able to exist physically and mentally in multiple places at multiple times. That paradox doesn't get changed because Comstock is gone.

Rosalind believes their attempt is pointless because in their observation of all dimensions Booker always fails. Robert believes that they can use their knowledge of the variables in play to manipulate the outcome. It doesn't matter that there is a dimension in which they fail as they only have to succeed once.

@ghostiet: Then why do other Elizabeth's disappear at the end of the game? Is that not their worlds being eliminated from existence? Doesn't Elizabeth only have her powers because of Comstock's interference?

Ok. So let's take for face value that the whole bioshock infinite storyline is circular. The Luteces have attempted to have a version of Booker attempt to break the cycle 122 times (as evidenced by the coin flips). Some variables change but the Booker character has yet to break the cycle. Got it. My question stems from the "dark" Elizabeth version. In one version, Elizabeth destroys 1980s NYC. How does this continue the cycle ? According to Comstock this is Elizabeth's ultimate purpose - to bath the land of Sodom in fire. Is this the end of the cycle and it resets at this point, thus restarting the cycle? What's happens to this Elizabeth then? Does she perish at her own hand? This is my one major hang up, because if Booker fails, this seems to lead to an end game where Elizabeth is an all powerful tyrant. Thoughts ?

I think the ending is meant to be left to your own interpretation.

That's more or less my takeaway from the ending, yeah.

Also, goddamnit Irrational, putting post credits bit like that in is fine if you DON'T AUTOMATICALLY SKIP IT BY PRESSING 'A' ONCE DURING THE CREDITS! D:

I had to youtube the after credit thing. I pressed A a single time, game cuts directly to ending title card.

No real insights other than what's already being discussed, but I love it when a game is able to get us into discussions like this. It doesn't happen often enough and it makes it all the more special when it does.

@oldirtybearon: Thank you for answering the question that has bothering me, Comstock and Booker being the same person makes way more sense now.

"Constants and variables"

The assumption is that by interfering in the way that they did they made it so that Booker can only ever drown when he takes the baptism, a universal constant. We can assume this could very well be the case because it's already essentially a constant that if Booker does go through with the baptism then he does become Comstock and he does create Columbia. On the other hand there is, indeed, the situation where maybe it just created another universe where Booker drowns with the other two variants continuing to exist as they were. I think that's sort of the point to that post-credits scene. Did it work? Is Booker drowning if he decides to undergo the baptism a constant, or is it variable? If drowning is a new constant then Booker wakes up, checks on Anna and she's sleeping happily in her crib. If it's a variable then Anna is not in her crib. Ultimately this final question is one that is left to the audience to ponder or decide on for themselves, I don't think that's a bad thing.

@oldirtybearon: In a reddit thread it was pointed out that the scene after the end credits has a different date on the calendar on the desk which is actually the day after Anna was taken by Comstock in the previous reality.

The insinuation is that its been rewritten now and Anna was never given away and Booker and her can live happily ever after etc. etc.

Honestly, my take on it, currently, is that the game introduces a spiritual element as soon as Elizabeth gains cosmic awareness at the end of the game. Her "enlightenment" is far more broad than the extent of her ability to tear time/space and the sea of doors is a weird place between worlds that is NOT the same as just a tear between realities. They have entered a place that is not bound by normal space/time and she begins to take Booker on a spirit quest between dimensions as she explains his role in the universe to him.

I think maybe this scene exists to introduce the idea that spiritual concepts really do exist in Bioshock even if not tied to organized religion.

Woah woah woah, what?

Where in the game do they ever suggest that booker gets baptized and drowns?

@jazgalaxy: The ending, basically, is that. Elizabeth fudges around with the "Booker decides to get baptized and becomes Comstock" reality by changing how it went - Booker still goes with the baptism in this reality, but dies during it - that's why all the Elizabeths disappear, but Booker wakes up around the time he gave Anna away in the "original" reality, but without a Comstock to offer him to wipe his debts for her. She does not travel intime. She modifies reality. Now the split is "Booker rejects his baptism and goes on life and at some point has Anna" and "Booker decides to get baptized and drowns in the process". She doesn't simply kill Booker.

@koolaid: You are forgetting the fact that this is a story concerned with parallel universes, not time travel. There is no time travel loop, so there can't be a grandfather paradox because she simply replaces the Comstock reality with a new one. The multiverse sorts the ensuing changes on its own, which is why all the Elizabeths disappear and why the post-credits Booker wakes up in such confusion: he gets a memory update. It happened before, when the player crosses over to the martyr!Booker reality and Booker begins remembering what his persona native to this reality did. You have to remember - this is not a time travel story. Time plays a role, sure, but doesn't govern the plot. Booker himself asks her to take him to the moment where Comstock was born, but it's not the same place it happened (Booker says so earlier), so they aren't traveling in time - they are forging a replacement reality.