Remember when they were bought by EA and both companies assured the press and the public that Bioware wasn't going to change? Now multiplayer in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. I wonder if Bioware even paid attention to the complaints levied against Dragon Age 2. Tossing in multiplayer... not sure how that addresses the repeating dungeons.

Okay!

Well, I'm looking forward to Mass Effect 3 regardless!

@Cloudenvy said:

Okay!

Well, I'm looking forward to Mass Effect 3 regardless!

Me to. Just making some observations.

EA buys developers and absorbs them. Look at Maxis, it is in its last throws.

The complaints against DA2 should have no impact on the ME franchise. Multiplayer in ME3 is just horde mode. Also, those are just rumors, nothing confirmed.

Mass Effect 3 is on my list for March, but it'll probably be the last Bioware game I purchase. I still haven't played Dragon Age 2, so I'm not going to comment on whatever atrocities people say Bioware committed, but I'm not fond of the direction they're taking with ME3 (especially after the recent story leak).

I remember people asking for/about Mass Effect multi for a while, so that has little to do with EA.

@mikey87144 said:

Tossing in multiplayer... not sure how that addresses the repeating dungeons.

It's not like they have to do one or the other. I would assume they have a completely separate team working on the multiplayer stuff.

As I've said about the announcement of multiplayer in Mass Effect 3, I don't care. I don't care if the multiplayer modes turn out to be complete shit, as long as the single player is still good. I just don't get why so many people immediately hate Bioware just because they put in some kind of multiplayer mode. You don't HAVE to play it, and you can't say they should have focused more on the single player yet, because no one knows how the single player will turn out.

@Kanji said:

I remember people asking for/about Mass Effect multi for a while, so that has little to do with EA.

Bioware games have been pleaded to go multiplatform on consoles since KOTOR, but Bioware never seemed to have the resources until they were bought by EA.

@metalhead87 said:

@mikey87144 said:

Tossing in multiplayer... not sure how that addresses the repeating dungeons.

It's not like they have to do one or the other. I would assume they have a completely separate team working on the multiplayer stuff.

As I've said about the announcement of multiplayer in Mass Effect 3, I don't care. I don't care if the multiplayer modes turn out to be complete shit, as long as the single player is still good. I just don't get why so many people immediately hate Bioware just because they put in some kind of multiplayer mode. You don't HAVE to play it, and you can't say they should have focused more on the single player yet, because no one knows how the single player will turn out.

Welcome to the internet.

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

@plaintomato said:

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

I assume you never played old school rpgs, that is what DA is.

Pretty sure it's not the maniacally evil fat cats you refer to as EA responsible for anything going on at Bioware (or at least in this case), in fact I think it's great that they're adapting to a changing market by doing such "radical" and "controversial" things like adding features.... Is it really such a big deal that they're trying something new?

@mosdl said:

@plaintomato said:

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

I assume you never played old school rpgs, that is what DA is.

I've been playing RPG's since The Oregon Trail in fourth grade. Isometric point and click feels right. Third person view with JRPG turn based combat feels right. First or third person action rpg combat feels right. The DA hybrid of playing in third person view and having direct control of your player, combined with the sort of disembodied combat where you don't swing your sword but just watch your guy swing the sword doesn't feel right. You have immersive first person direct control of your character until you go into combat and then you are totally disconnected. It just feels wrong for me, that's all.

@mosdl said:

@plaintomato said:

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

I assume you never played old school rpgs, that is what DA is.

I've been playing RPG's since The Oregon Trail in fourth grade. Isometric point and click feels right. Third person view with JRPG turn based combat feels right. First or third person action rpg combat feels right. The DA hybrid of playing in third person view and having direct control of your player, combined with the sort of disembodied combat where you don't swing your sword but just watch your guy swing the sword doesn't feel right. You have immersive first person direct control of your character until you go into combat and then you are totally disconnected. It just feels wrong for me, that's all.

@mosdl said:

@plaintomato said:

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

I assume you never played old school rpgs, that is what DA is.

I've been playing RPG's since The Oregon Trail in fourth grade. Isometric point and click feels right. Third person view with JRPG turn based combat feels right. First or third person action rpg combat feels right. The DA hybrid of playing in third person view and having direct control of your player, combined with the sort of disembodied combat where you don't swing your sword but just watch your guy swing the sword doesn't feel right. You have immersive first person direct control of your character until you go into combat and then you are totally disconnected. It just feels wrong for me, that's all.

Hey, you know what other game had multiplayer?
 
Baldur's Gate 2.
 
And Icewind Dale.
 
And Icewind Dale 2.
 
And Neverwinter Nights.

@Dagbiker said:

@plaintomato

@mosdl said:

@plaintomato said:

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

I assume you never played old school rpgs, that is what DA is.

I've been playing RPG's since The Oregon Trail in fourth grade. Isometric point and click feels right. Third person view with JRPG turn based combat feels right. First or third person action rpg combat feels right. The DA hybrid of playing in third person view and having direct control of your player, combined with the sort of disembodied combat where you don't swing your sword but just watch your guy swing the sword doesn't feel right. You have immersive first person direct control of your character until you go into combat and then you are totally disconnected. It just feels wrong for me, that's all.

by the sounds of it your playing it on the 360, or ps3. Mos was talking about playing it on the pc, which plays like it should, a third person rpg.

My problem with Dragon Age is the same I had with Baldur's Gate; it's that it sucks to use menus to direct real-time combat. If you're going to make something a menu-driven statistical game, make it turn based. If you're going to make it real time, make it an action game. Baldur's Gate felt like an RTS with RPG cutscenes.

@FancySoapsMan said:

Hey, you know what other game had multiplayer? Baldur's Gate 2. And Icewind Dale. And Icewind Dale 2. And Neverwinter Nights.

NWN was sort of about the ability to make your own campaigns and the multiplayer was huge because of that. If they support player made campaigns in DA3 with a DnD style that would rule.

@mikey87144: I think Bioware is losing some of it's creative freedom while EA is trying to mainstream their games. IE multiplayer and changing Dragon Age 2 to basically be Mass Effect with dragons. Dragon Age: Origins was the shit. Best RPG I have played in a while. It's one of my favorite RPGs if not my favorite.

Wait.

There's multiplayer in Dragon Age?

Every game CAN be made better with the ability to play it with your friends....I'm not saying that's always the case, but there is always the potential to make a better game. Bioware is still my favorite developer in spite of Dragon Age 2, and I still think Mass Effect 3 will probably be the best game of this generation.

@Dagbiker said:

@plaintomato

@mosdl said:

@plaintomato said:

Dragon Age was an interesting experiment. A third person game that played like an isometric mouse click game. I hated it. Can we blame that on EA? For Mass Effect...I don't have any complaints...and I really don't see how a multi-player component will hurt it, it's not like the single player campaign will suffer (they can't be that dumb).

I assume you never played old school rpgs, that is what DA is.

I've been playing RPG's since The Oregon Trail in fourth grade. Isometric point and click feels right. Third person view with JRPG turn based combat feels right. First or third person action rpg combat feels right. The DA hybrid of playing in third person view and having direct control of your player, combined with the sort of disembodied combat where you don't swing your sword but just watch your guy swing the sword doesn't feel right. You have immersive first person direct control of your character until you go into combat and then you are totally disconnected. It just feels wrong for me, that's all.

by the sounds of it your playing it on the 360, or ps3. Mos was talking about playing it on the pc, which plays like it should, a third person rpg.

My problem with Dragon Age is the same I had with Baldur's Gate; it's that it sucks to use menus to direct real-time combat. If you're going to make something a menu-driven statistical game, make it turn based. If you're going to make it real time, make it an action game. Baldur's Gate felt like an RTS with RPG cutscenes.

I don't see how adding multiplayer is them changing. Sure, DA2 was pretty much trash, but that's one game. You gotta give them more credit than that. Also, Baldur's Gate 2 had multiplayer.

@Dany said:

The complaints against DA2 should have no impact on the ME franchise. Multiplayer in ME3 is just horde mode. Also, those are just rumors, nothing confirmed.

The complaints against DA2 have already had an impact on ME, whether it is good or bad has yet to be seen. Do you think it was really a coincidence that the ME team announced that the third installment of ME would not be releasing in 2011 and got pushed into early 2012 on May 4th (just under 2 months after DA2's release)? I for one was happy about the extended development time. After DA2's rush job it was nice to see that they realize we were at least pissed and decided to spend more time on the final chapter of their action space opera.

As for the original post, DA2 was Bioware's first project made in its entirety under the thumb of EA...and it really shows. It didn't hold up Bioware standards. It was simply their weakest game development in a decade. I am frightened for the future and ability of Bioware to maintain a respectable reputation under the rule of EA. Bioware was allowed to keep their name even after being absorbed by EA solely based off of the fact that they did have such a respectable reputation amongst the RPG community, but now i think they're under one big microscope by the actual fans that have supported them for a VERY long time. If they don't deliver it will be a sorry ending in a tragic tale. One in which they turned their back on their fans.

I still hope that ME3 is amazing. It is my favorite story in gaming history. I do not wish to see Bioware fall from grace, but sadly i don't believe it is even in their hands anymore.

I think part of the reason Mass Effect 3 got delayed was in response to the poor reception for Dragon Age 2 - that's just my gut feeling though, rather than anything based on proof.

The more I think about it, the less I mind multiplayer in Mass Effect 3. The gameplay in the Mass Effect series has been action-focused since the beginning, but coupled with the dialogue and character progression elements you would expect from an RPG. You spend a lot of time exploring and talking with dudes, but a lot of time in both 1 and 2 shooting enemies. So if the shooting gets more refined to the point where it can actually support a multiplayer mode, then hell, why not.

I dunno. Dragon Age 2 definitely makes me more skeptical about ME3, but I don't think ME2 suffered any for being an EA game when compared to ME1.

Hey remember back when that EA dude said that their strategic direction was to add multiplayer components to all of their games?  Remember that?  EA wants as much money as they can get out of the Bioware titles.  They think multiplayer and online passes is the way to make that happen so that's what EA customers are going to get.

I remember when I had just finished Mass Effect 1, and was super impressed and excited for the sequel, my brother turned from the computer and said "EA just bought Bioware." All I could think was "Fuck :(". However, everything went pretty fucking swimmingly with ME2 and DA:O, but then...

People say DA2 was just one bad game they made, and we shouldn't throw them to the wolves because of it. I say bullshit. They're being thrown to the wolves because that's what they did to that franchise by turning a sequel around in less than a goddamn year. If they had spent anywhere near the same amount of time on DA2 as on DA:O, I think a lot more people would have forgiven the relative failure. What's not being forgiven is the cash hungry attitude.

I've heard rumors that Bioware are jealous of Bethesda's RPG successes. Maybe that's because Bethesda doesn't treat their franchises like shit. For example, they don't put any fucking turret sequences in any of the Elder Scrolls games.

@ColinWright: Because EA is trying to turn Mass Effect into some third person Halo Gears gay baby.

@Kanji said:

I remember people asking for/about Mass Effect multi for a while, so that has little to do with EA.

Doesn't mean they should add it, especially not if you have to do it in order to get one of the good endings.

Bioware is changing because they are transitioning into a publisher themselves, thus the constant stream of shit we've seen in dragon age 2 and star wars knights of the republic.

Dragon Age 2 probably wasn't a bad game on it's own merits. When compared with how great I thought the combat and gameplay of the original was though, it was like an aborted fetus crawling out of a dumpster.

I just hope, like others here, that the single player is not compromised. I loved ME, ME2 was pretty "meh" for me. I hope 3 rekindles my love of ME.

@phish09 said:

Every game CAN be made better with the ability to play it with your friends....I'm not saying that's always the case, but there is always the potential to make a better game. Bioware is still my favorite developer in spite of Dragon Age 2, and I still think Mass Effect 3 will probably be the best game of this generation.

My worries about Mass Effect 3 don't start with the multiplayer but the inclusion of it has me concerned. What little information that I've allowed myself to hear has me very concerned about that game.

If I play Mass Effect 3 and find it to be anything other than complete garbage I will legitimately be shocked. 
After 2 I was already kind of meh about the third one, but the story leaks made it sound infinitely worse than my already low expectations.

@Still_I_Cry said:

Dragon Age 2 probably wasn't a bad game on it's own merits. When compared with how great I thought the combat and gameplay of the original was though, it was like an aborted fetus crawling out of a dumpster.

I just hope, like others here, that the single player is not compromised. I loved ME, ME2 was pretty "meh" for me. I hope 3 rekindles my love of ME.

Dragon Age 2 was a horrible game, it was repetitive, confining, massively cut down on content and interaction possibilities and plain sucked. There wasn't anything about it at all, that Dragon Age or many other games didn't do better. Hell most of the time they gave us the same cave over and over and over again just with small parts of it inaccessible.

And as an added bonus, they made nearly all the companions absolutely unlikeable. Not just mediocre, or kind of annyoing, no they managed to add several of the characters I hated the most in the last few years of gaming. Oh and let's not forget about the story, and how no matter what you do in the end you're doomed to lose by default. Yeah thanks for that, f**** you Bioware.

If Dragon Age would've been made by another developer my usual "NBAGAFTI" policy would've been in effect. The only reason it is not, is that I want to finish the Mass Effect series. If Mass Effect 3 is as bad as Dragon Age 2, it will be the last Bioware game I've bought.

@Kanji said:

I remember people asking for/about Mass Effect multi for a while, so that has little to do with EA.

Doesn't mean they should add it, especially not if you have to do it in order to get one of the good endings.

@Brodehouse said:

@Deleth said:

@Kanji said:

I remember people asking for/about Mass Effect multi for a while, so that has little to do with EA.

Doesn't mean they should add it, especially not if you have to do it in order to get one of the good endings.

That's not true at all, and you know it.

It is. The whole system is called "GalacticReadiness" and you get graded based on the performance of your team. It directly influences your single player game and the ending you're going to get. So don't say it's not true if you didn't even bother looking it up.

Damn shame about Bioware. Hopefully all the old guys will leave, form a new company, make some more NWN and give DA:O and ME1 the spiritual successor they deserve.

@Brodehouse said:

@Deleth said:

@Kanji said:

I remember people asking for/about Mass Effect multi for a while, so that has little to do with EA.

Doesn't mean they should add it, especially not if you have to do it in order to get one of the good endings.

That's not true at all, and you know it.

It is. The whole system is called "GalacticReadiness" and you get graded based on the performance of your team. It directly influences your single player game and the ending you're going to get. So don't say it's not true if you didn't even bother looking it up.

@Brodehouse said:

@Dagbiker That's not the issue, the issue is the looseness, especially with movement. No matter what directions I gave it feels like the AI will just run the fuck wherever it wants. If I'm not hands on directing Wynne to stay away from the exploding demon, or run when she pulls aggro, she'll get herself killed. Same with Baldur's Gate, trying to actually plan an intercept trajectory requires so much micro, all which would be meaningless if it was turn based in the first place. If the game is going to have a real time element, either reduce it as much as possible or make it an action game. Giving an order and watching your character be completely ineffective due to lousy pathfinding makes no one happy.

So what you really want is better AI and better pathfinding, that I will agree with. There was an option in the menu that would pause the game every turn, making Baulders Gate a turn based RPG. I dont know about Dragon Age.

@GunslingerPanda said:

Damn shame about Bioware. Hopefully all the old guys will leave, form a new company, make some more NWN and give DA:O and ME1 the spiritual successor they deserve.

I don't know why you are citing the first Mass Effect game, Mass Effect 2 was a fine game, sure maybe they removed a few too many of the RPG mechanics but it was still great.

@FancySoapsMan said:

Hey, you know what other game had multiplayer? Baldur's Gate 2. And Icewind Dale. And Icewind Dale 2. And Neverwinter Nights.

What does Icewind Dale have to do with Bioware?

I'm kinda down on Bioware lately. DA2 went in the wrong direction in my eye and that last Mass Effect 2 DLC was an abortion. That MMO doesn't look too hot, either. I'll still probably buy ME3 if only to see how Shepard is sent off.

@Bwast said:

@FancySoapsMan said:

Hey, you know what other game had multiplayer? Baldur's Gate 2. And Icewind Dale. And Icewind Dale 2. And Neverwinter Nights.

What does Icewind Dale have to do with Bioware?

I'm kinda down on Bioware lately. DA2 went in the wrong direction in my eye and that last Mass Effect 2 DLC was an abortion. That MMO doesn't look too hot, either. I'll still probably buy ME3 if only to see how Shepard is sent off.

Icewind Dale was developed by Black Isle, not Bioware.

@Bwast said:

@FancySoapsMan said:

Hey, you know what other game had multiplayer? Baldur's Gate 2. And Icewind Dale. And Icewind Dale 2. And Neverwinter Nights.

What does Icewind Dale have to do with Bioware?

I'm kinda down on Bioware lately. DA2 went in the wrong direction in my eye and that last Mass Effect 2 DLC was an abortion. That MMO doesn't look too hot, either. I'll still probably buy ME3 if only to see how Shepard is sent off.

Icewind Dale was developed by Black Isle, not Bioware.

I remember when they made RPG's *runs away*

@Dagbiker said:

@Bwast said:

@FancySoapsMan said:

Hey, you know what other game had multiplayer? Baldur's Gate 2. And Icewind Dale. And Icewind Dale 2. And Neverwinter Nights.

What does Icewind Dale have to do with Bioware?

I'm kinda down on Bioware lately. DA2 went in the wrong direction in my eye and that last Mass Effect 2 DLC was an abortion. That MMO doesn't look too hot, either. I'll still probably buy ME3 if only to see how Shepard is sent off.

Icewind Dale was developed by Black Isle, not Bioware.

oops :P
 
Still, I don't think multiplayer in Bioware's newer games is anything to worry about.

@Deleth said:

@Still_I_Cry said:

Dragon Age 2 probably wasn't a bad game on it's own merits. When compared with how great I thought the combat and gameplay of the original was though, it was like an aborted fetus crawling out of a dumpster.

I just hope, like others here, that the single player is not compromised. I loved ME, ME2 was pretty "meh" for me. I hope 3 rekindles my love of ME.

Dragon Age 2 was a horrible game, it was repetitive, confining, massively cut down on content and interaction possibilities and plain sucked. There wasn't anything about it at all, that Dragon Age or many other games didn't do better. Hell most of the time they gave us the same cave over and over and over again just with small parts of it inaccessible.

And as an added bonus, they made nearly all the companions absolutely unlikeable. Not just mediocre, or kind of annyoing, no they managed to add several of the characters I hated the most in the last few years of gaming. Oh and let's not forget about the story, and how no matter what you do in the end you're doomed to lose by default. Yeah thanks for that, f**** you Bioware.

If Dragon Age would've been made by another developer my usual "NBAGAFTI" policy would've been in effect. The only reason it is not, is that I want to finish the Mass Effect series. If Mass Effect 3 is as bad as Dragon Age 2, it will be the last Bioware game I've bought.

Well ok then.