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    BioWare is a game company that is currently owned by Electronic Arts (EA). It specializes in making role playing games that usually involve deep and engaging stories.

    Maybe they are all right to hate Bioware...

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #1  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    Now, I love Bioware, at least, the Bioware that had yet to make sequels to either Mass Effect or Dragon Age: Origins. Everything they put out, I pretty much adored. They were probably my favorite developer, even before that, though I hadn't come to realize it. I played everything they put out just about, and despite some flaws, generally considered their games to be the shining beacon of hope for RPG nuts like myself.

    There has been a lot of talk about whoring their brands out, from the cross overs with other games to promotional items with Dr. Pepper to putting their names on titles they really have nothing to do with. They got a lot of flak over the lackluster Dragon Age II for being lazy and rushed in their development. Many long standing Bioware fans took issue with the stripping down and watering down of the RPG systems in the Mass Effect series, worrying about the studio's eventual march to dodge rolls and a melee button for a game with no need for melee and every need for all the extra buttons it could get.

    And over all, I've been disappointed in their direction, critical of their recent games, and generally sad at the loss of one of the great RPG developers in the west. But at the same time, I sunk 60 hours into Mass Effect 2. The craft with which all of the character specific plots unfolded was generally (although not universally) pretty fantastic. Some of the things they did with the universe were genuinely cool. Legion, and Tali's loyalty mission both come to mind. WREX IS A FUCKIN' KING. A PLANET FUCKIN KING. And that's pretty awesome. I found the over arching plot in Mass Effect 2 to be total shit (admittedly it was pretty non-existent, so there's only so much crap I can give it), and hated the changes (I thought it played fine without being compared to ME, but ME had so much more to do) to the game part of the game, but over all I though it was a pretty good experience. It played well and again, I loved the characters a lot. I didn't play much of Dragon Age II, but I heard it wasn't a steaming pile of shit, just a steaming pile of non-matter.

    I still had hope, and knew that they had the right to make their games what they would be. I thought that ME2's marketing was misleading, in that it didn't ever disclose just how different the game would play until very close to launch (I had no idea about the changes to the RPG mechanics until I picked it up giddily at the midnight launch), but they made a good game that they wanted to make, so good on them.

    But then I saw this...

    No Caption Provided

    And I'm not so sure anymore.

    Bioware is a really popular, successful, well liked developer. They make Mass Effect a huge thing, despite having started out as a fairly dense RPG. They made dialogue trees sexy. They made it really really big off of a shooter RPG. If you had told me someone would make a shooter RPG that everyone would fall in love with and would eventually go on to make a sensational hit of a franchise, I'd have laughed in your face.

    So why do I keep seeing all of this cross over, marketing stunt, advertisement in an abstract form content? Why is there Mass Effect in your Final Fantasy, and why is there rip-off McRPG-face in my Mass Effect, not to mention all of the other marketing material either in or containing Mass Effect 2 content.

    I already have issues with the way ME3 apparently handles gay characters: there are two bisexuals, one of each gender, and two gays, one of each gender, and they are about the least desirable and interesting characters possible. It feels formulaic, like it's just there to please the masses, not because they actually wanted to make a game that accepted players of every kind. Hell, the fully homosexual characters seem to exist entirely for the purpose of gay boning. And as a result, are boring, not at all fleshed out, and kind of cheap feeling. Really, you couldn't have had some big revelation that Garrus is bisexual? Or I dunno, anyone but Kaiden, who so far has only survived because he was boring and simple instead of racist and obnoxious? I don't really like being the guy to get pissy because my game doesn't cater to me, but I don't need my fan fiction fantasy (which I don't even have, to be clear) to come true. I just want to not be an afterthought or someone that had to be served and was given the bare minimum, instead of one of the highly developed characters I've grown attached to over the course of the game.

    But hey, at least it wasn't a twink, right?

    I'm not going to whine about Bioware needing to "fix" thing for me. I'm just not going to give two shits which way they go, and stop taking them seriously, because they just put their armor on a little girl with pink curly hair. What is this, Steelport? The kind of craziness this feels like seems like it should be a marketing ploy used by the the Saints to push their new game, not a real cross marketing tactic.

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    deactivated-5cc8838532af0

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    No, think of all the great things Bioware has given us in the past. Mass Effect 3 is a good game, it just didn't live up to it's astronomical expectations. Dragon Age 2 was a bad game but everyone is off every now and again. As far as bad marketing goes ME 2 had some terrible marketing and the entire cross stuff does make sense for FF because it's an rpg. What makes it different from the cross promotion with Amaular?

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    Bocam

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    #3  Edited By Bocam

    Didn't Bioware shit on the last Final Fantasy game? Saying that it wasn't an RPG?

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    bwheeeler

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    #4  Edited By bwheeeler

    I don't get why that, of all things, is what made you dislike Bioware.

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    donchipotle

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    #5  Edited By donchipotle

    Dammit, guy, Ashley wasn't racist. That is all I got from your post.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #6  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @Irvandus said:

    No, think of all the great things Bioware has given us in the past. Mass Effect 3 is a good game, it just didn't live up to it's astronomical expectations. Dragon Age 2 was a bad game but everyone is off every now and again. As far as bad marketing goes ME 2 had some terrible marketing and the entire cross stuff does make sense for FF because it's an rpg. What makes it different from the cross promotion with Amaular?

    I never said it was different, but at leas that was themed, this is just a straight rip. Plus, this is something people buy. Not something you get for playing the demo of the other game. But really, it's just a ridiculous fit. It also happened more recently, tipping the scales.

    Yes, its an RPG. That's about it. Should Duke Nukem have cross game promotional items in Call of Duty? No, probably not. And I pointed out that the Amular cross promotion was pretty dirty too. But where as that made something within the games style that was themed to have elements from the other game, this is just ripping it out and putting it in in a really awkward way. Seriously, look at her, she looks ridiculous with that armor.

    @Bocam said:

    Didn't Bioware shit on the last Final Fantasy game? Saying that it wasn't an RPG?

    Well it was kind of terrible depending on how far you were willing to wade through the shit.

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    President_Barackbar

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    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    I already have issues with the way ME3 apparently handles gay characters: there are two bisexuals, one of each gender, and two gays, one of each gender, and they are about the least desirable and interesting characters possible. It feels formulaic, like it's just there to please the masses, not because they actually wanted to make a game that accepted players of every kind. Hell, the fully homosexual characters seem to exist entirely for the purpose of gay boning. And as a result, are boring, not at all fleshed out, and kind of cheap feeling. Really, you couldn't have had some big revelation that Garrus is bisexual? Or I dunno, anyone but Kaiden, who so far has only survived because he was boring and simple instead of racist and obnoxious? I don't really like being the guy to get pissy because my game doesn't cater to me, but I don't need my fan fiction fantasy (which I don't even have, to be clear) to come true. I just want to not be an afterthought or someone that had to be served and was given the bare minimum, instead of one of the highly developed characters I've grown attached to over the course of the game.

    I could not agree more with this statement. One of my major problems with ME and DA are the fact that the homosexuality stuff seems to just be there so BioWare can look progressive. Hell, I'm straight and I don't even think straight boning has a lot of place in video games (for the same reason you described of not needing them to act out a fan fiction fantasy). It's really stupid that any time I try to criticize this aspect of the games I get written off as a homophobe (which I certainly am not).
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    Jay444111

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    #8  Edited By Jay444111

    I would honestly buy a crossover of Mass Effect and Final Fantasy in an instant just for having the most WTF game ever made. I am fully honest about this. Also the outfits look awesome! What is the big deal about characters in other games having those?

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    KowalskiManDown

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    #9  Edited By KowalskiManDown

    So Bioware accepting money off of Square-Enix is the reason you hate Bioware?

    This costume pack isn't Bioware trying to reach out, it's Square-Enix trying to stay relevant.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #10  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @DonChipotle said:

    Dammit, guy, Ashley wasn't racist. That is all I got from your post.

    Regardless of if you saw her as racist, she was annoying and at the very least, elitist. And now she looks like the Brazilian whore that Cinematic Mod for HL2 made Alyx look like. Not that it really matters, I hated her, but didn't think she should have been taken out of the game. Just killed off very very quickly.

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    President_Barackbar

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    @Jay444111 said:

    Also the outfits look awesome! What is the big deal about characters in other games having those?

    I guess when you really think about it, the N7 suits look a lot better than the stupid wardrobe vomit FF characters usually wear.
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    MikeGosot

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    #12  Edited By MikeGosot
    @Bocam said:
    Didn't Bioware shit on the last Final Fantasy game? Saying that it wasn't an RPG?
    Yep. But hey, MONEY.
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    Chop

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    #13  Edited By Chop

    Pretty sure all the disgusting marketing is EA, not Bioware.

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    Jay444111

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    #14  Edited By Jay444111

    @Chop said:

    Pretty sure all the disgusting marketing is EA, not Bioware.

    But Bioware still has to sign it since they still technically own the ME franchise. Same with writing the ending, no way in hell would even the dumbest super corperation allow that one. Besides... EA made Dead Space series... those games are fucking awesome.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #15  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @Creamypies said:

    So Bioware accepting money off of Square-Enix is the reason you hate Bioware?

    This costume pack isn't Bioware trying to reach out, it's Square-Enix trying to stay relevant.

    So when Taco Bell starts advertising for Taco Time, their trying to be ever so slightly healthy? That makes no sense. Bioware gets marketing push from this, regardless of who wanted the deal in the first place.

    @President_Barackbar said:

    @Jay444111 said:

    Also the outfits look awesome! What is the big deal about characters in other games having those?

    I guess when you really think about it, the N7 suits look a lot better than the stupid wardrobe vomit FF characters usually wear.

    On its own, yes, but in this context it makes her look even more like a little girl than she already did. Something about it is super creepy to me, I dunno. And also, that's kind of my point, it's so far from what FF characters usually look like.

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    donchipotle

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    #16  Edited By donchipotle

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @DonChipotle said:

    Dammit, guy, Ashley wasn't racist. That is all I got from your post.

    Regardless of if you saw her as racist, she was annoying and at the very least, elitist. And now she looks like the Brazilian whore that Cinematic Mod for HL2 made Alyx look like. Not that it really matters, I hated her, but didn't think she should have been taken out of the game. Just killed off very very quickly.

    She is out of the game for three quarters of it as it is.

    She is also the best human character, but that's beside the point.

    And the Final Fantasy thing is more Square's fault than Bioware's. And it's not a huge deal, considering there is also Assassin's Creed costumes. It's the least of Bioware's current problems, in that it isn't a problem.

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    Jay444111

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    #17  Edited By Jay444111

    @MordeaniisChaos: Well... Barret had a cyborg arm... with a machine gun. That pretty much goes against all of the Fantasy genre in general.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #18  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @Chop said:

    Pretty sure all the disgusting marketing is EA, not Bioware.

    That's sorta like saying the guy who told you to kick a dog is the one responsible, not you. The idea that Bioware is being mind controlled by EA is fucking hilarious. It's a Bioware game, they have to be responsible to some extent.

    @DonChipotle said:

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @DonChipotle said:

    Dammit, guy, Ashley wasn't racist. That is all I got from your post.

    Regardless of if you saw her as racist, she was annoying and at the very least, elitist. And now she looks like the Brazilian whore that Cinematic Mod for HL2 made Alyx look like. Not that it really matters, I hated her, but didn't think she should have been taken out of the game. Just killed off very very quickly.

    She is out of the game for three quarters of it as it is.

    She is also the best human character, but that's beside the point.

    And the Final Fantasy thing is more Square's fault than Bioware's. And it's not a huge deal, considering there is also Assassin's Creed costumes. It's the least of Bioware's current problems, in that it isn't a problem.

    Again, you can like her, doesn't make her the best character of any race. I know for a fact I'm not alone in thinking she's a total bitch. But if you like her, that's cool. Of course, the humans save for Shepard and good ol' David and maybe Joker were all terrible, certainly all the human squadmates.

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    donchipotle

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    #19  Edited By donchipotle

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @Chop said:

    Pretty sure all the disgusting marketing is EA, not Bioware.

    That's sorta like saying the guy who told you to kick a dog is the one responsible, not you. The idea that Bioware is being mind controlled by EA is fucking hilarious. It's a Bioware game, they have to be responsible to some extent.

    @DonChipotle said:

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @DonChipotle said:

    Dammit, guy, Ashley wasn't racist. That is all I got from your post.

    Regardless of if you saw her as racist, she was annoying and at the very least, elitist. And now she looks like the Brazilian whore that Cinematic Mod for HL2 made Alyx look like. Not that it really matters, I hated her, but didn't think she should have been taken out of the game. Just killed off very very quickly.

    She is out of the game for three quarters of it as it is.

    She is also the best human character, but that's beside the point.

    And the Final Fantasy thing is more Square's fault than Bioware's. And it's not a huge deal, considering there is also Assassin's Creed costumes. It's the least of Bioware's current problems, in that it isn't a problem.

    Again, you can like her, doesn't make her the best character of any race. I know for a fact I'm not alone in thinking she's a total bitch. But if you like her, that's cool. Of course, the humans save for Shepard and good ol' David and maybe Joker were all terrible, certainly all the human squadmates.

    I just don't like it when people call her racist because she isn't racist at all, is all. Dass all I'm sayin, dog.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #20  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @DonChipotle: She hates on aliens being on the ship. You don't have to hate aliens and say they should be shot to be racist. You can be a loving husband who respects every aspect of women's rights except like, their right to piss alone. Your still a sexist because you're treating that gender differently just because of their gender. Is she the worst kind of racist? Absolutely not, but she is in fact, so some extent, racist. Like it or not. Personally, I share the Marine Corps view on race: There are only green Marines. Ashley didn't see things that way and in my book, that's racist. She wished to treat other races differently. It's racist to have a "white" and "colored" drinking fountain but not to apply the same concept to a military vessel?

    @Jay444111 said:

    @MordeaniisChaos: Well... Barret had a cyborg arm... with a machine gun. That pretty much goes against all of the Fantasy genre in general.

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about, not being a FF fan in the slightest, but that sounds like the sort of thing I'd see in a FF game, at least some of the more recent ones.

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    fox01313

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    #21  Edited By fox01313

    While I don't hate Bioware I think that they've pushed themselves a bit hard & maybe painted themselves in a few corners (okay in a room made by M.C. Escher), also that the current producers/directors might be sending game franchises in the wrong directions (like the Final Fantasy DLC armor of Mass Effect) or the last couple games all wonky on some of the writing/themes. I'd prefer that Bioware take a mental step back & maybe follow what Double Fine did & come out with a handful of fun smaller games.

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    Jay444111

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    #22  Edited By Jay444111

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @Jay444111 said:

    @MordeaniisChaos: Well... Barret had a cyborg arm... with a machine gun. That pretty much goes against all of the Fantasy genre in general.

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about, not being a FF fan in the slightest, but that sounds like the sort of thing I'd see in a FF game, at least some of the more recent ones.

    He was in FF7. Guns also appeared in FF tactics. More like flintlock pistols but they still were used like guns. Basically a gun doesn't make it just a Fantasy genre anymore. It is more like a hybrid of Modern/Fantasy than anything.

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    adoggz

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    #23  Edited By adoggz

    so all the crazy people who hate bioware for no reason are actually justified because there is some mass effect armor as dlc in a final fantasy game?

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #24  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @Jay444111 said:

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @Jay444111 said:

    @MordeaniisChaos: Well... Barret had a cyborg arm... with a machine gun. That pretty much goes against all of the Fantasy genre in general.

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about, not being a FF fan in the slightest, but that sounds like the sort of thing I'd see in a FF game, at least some of the more recent ones.

    He was in FF7. Guns also appeared in FF tactics. More like flintlock pistols but they still were used like guns. Basically a gun doesn't make it just a Fantasy genre anymore. It is more like a hybrid of Modern/Fantasy than anything.

    Your point...?

    @fox01313 said:

    While I don't hate Bioware I think that they've pushed themselves a bit hard & maybe painted themselves in a few corners (okay in a room made by M.C. Escher), also that the current producers/directors might be sending game franchises in the wrong directions (like the Final Fantasy DLC armor of Mass Effect) or the last couple games all wonky on some of the writing/themes. I'd prefer that Bioware take a mental step back & maybe follow what Double Fine did & come out with a handful of fun smaller games.

    This is pretty much exactly how I feel, put shortly.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #25  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @adoggz said:

    so all the crazy people who hate bioware for no reason are actually justified because there is some mass effect armor as dlc in a final fantasy game?

    I'm just wondering if there are enough reasons to add up to at least a reasonable dislike of the direction they are headed in. If people just hate because of one little thing, no. But I feel uncomfortable about a hell of a lot of what has been done with their franchises of late, in and out of the games they develop. Sure they are generally pretty good games, but that's not to say that the way ME2 handled DLC wasn't terrible in it's early live span, nor that the marketing isn't a little distasteful and pretty plentiful. And of course, Dragon Age II being so incredibly rushed is a prime example of why people don't trust the Bioware name as much as they used to. And what if that C&C game flops horribly, will that be held against them? Should it be? Probably not but at the same time their name is on the team making it.

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    Jay444111

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    #26  Edited By Jay444111

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @Jay444111 said:

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @Jay444111 said:

    @MordeaniisChaos: Well... Barret had a cyborg arm... with a machine gun. That pretty much goes against all of the Fantasy genre in general.

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about, not being a FF fan in the slightest, but that sounds like the sort of thing I'd see in a FF game, at least some of the more recent ones.

    He was in FF7. Guns also appeared in FF tactics. More like flintlock pistols but they still were used like guns. Basically a gun doesn't make it just a Fantasy genre anymore. It is more like a hybrid of Modern/Fantasy than anything.

    Your point...?

    @fox01313 said:

    While I don't hate Bioware I think that they've pushed themselves a bit hard & maybe painted themselves in a few corners (okay in a room made by M.C. Escher), also that the current producers/directors might be sending game franchises in the wrong directions (like the Final Fantasy DLC armor of Mass Effect) or the last couple games all wonky on some of the writing/themes. I'd prefer that Bioware take a mental step back & maybe follow what Double Fine did & come out with a handful of fun smaller games.

    This is pretty much exactly how I feel, put shortly.

    FF series has always dealt with technology in some way, so having the N7 armor really isn't that big of a deal. It is just kinda weird to see FF characters in N7 armor is all.

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    cloneslayer

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    #27  Edited By cloneslayer

    All I can say is that I'm waiting for reviews before getting Bioware's next game

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #28  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

    @Jay444111: Yeah but they aren't in the same universe. Or connected in any way except a loose partial genre similarity.

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    Jay444111

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    #29  Edited By Jay444111

    @Cloneslayer said:

    All I can say is that I'm waiting for reviews before getting Bioware's next game

    I think you should read user reviews more than the professional reviewers... since most seem to be bribed into defending the current ending at this point other than Forbes.

    @MordeaniisChaos said:

    @Jay444111: Yeah but they aren't in the same universe. Or connected in any way except a loose partial genre similarity.

    But does that deny the awesomeness of the suits though?

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    twigger89

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    #30  Edited By twigger89

    I agree with a lot of your points, but not your conclusion.

    1). ME1 is the best ME game IMO, even with it is very janky mechanics.

    2). Cross game advertising is stupid because it shits on the fiction (honestly the worst one for me was the blood dragon armor in ME2).

    3). Dragon age 2 (while a decent game in its own right) was a horrible horrible sequel to Dragon Age Origins, which is my favorite Bioware game to date.

    4). Sexuality and relationships in Bioware's game are bad. It is only because they are sooo bad in most other games that we look upon bioware games with any kind of positive light. Shepard is a god damn god, but he talks to women he is interested like he is a character out of weird science or some other bad 80s nerd romcom.

    There is more, but I'll stop there and get to the point. Even with all the dumb things Bioware has done recently, I still think at heart they are the same company. They have just been going through some crazy growing pains because of the huge cash injections EA has been giving them. While I am a little cautious now (DA2 burned me pretty bad) I still think Bioware is in a position to create top tier RPGs that appeal to story focused gamers.

    Also, I think it is ridiculous that anyone can think that Joker is not the best damn character is the whole ME universe. He is the only one I can with a personality real enough that he could exist in the real world, as opposed to the pretty shallow characters (which I still like because respectively they are some of the best in the industry) that Bioware usually fills their games with.

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