@TeflonBilly said:

@TheHT said:

@TeflonBilly said:

Good riddance, I've wished Bioware nothing but ill after shitting their pants three times ina row with DA2, ME3 and TOR.

THAT'S THREE STRIKES YA HOSERS! YEEEEEEEEEEEEER OUT!

You know, you don't have to play their games.

Wishing ill toward a company because their games aren't good enough for you is ridiculous.

Excuse me for having standards. If somebody continously screws up in my eyes, then they certainly don't deserve my patronage, fandom or reverence. Those games are among the biggest disappointments of this generation in my opinion and I'm not gonna shed a tear for a sickly, wounded wretch who's manages to fall off a cliff three times in a row due to it's own idiocy.

I call em like I see em, and that's how I roll.

It's not about having standards or finding a company undeserving of your business and fandom, it's about wishing ill towards a company solely for not meeting those standards.

Obviously your wishes are, in reality, utterly ineffective, but the sentiment is very dickish.

@Adaurin said:

@Hailinel said:

The character creation is partially what drove me away from Dragon Age II. I loved the character creation in the first Dragon Age with its racial options and origin backgrounds. But those were all stripped out in Dragon Age II by their attempt to create Commander Shepard Hawke.

While I agree it could use more background thing, I felt that Hawke was far superior to Shepard. Not only did you have a general good/bad set of options, you also that layer of personality that the game would keep track of, so even if you didn't have exact control over what your character was saying in an action scene, the personality you choose continued to show. I loved my sarcastic Lady Hawke who cracked a joke or answered people sarcastically, but when needed made the moral decision. I felt that was a lot better then Shepard who, especially in mass effect 3, used the same dialogue independent of your choices when it wasn't op to you to pick a dialogue option.

But why even go the Shepard-ish route in the first place? Why take away the option to play a dwarf or an elf?

@Hailinel: Streamlining the design. The answer is obvious enough, although the reasoning may not be considered acceptable.

well if its true i won't mourn bioware and i'm optimistic that those two will find a way to make/get behind more rad games without a bunch of suits over their shoulders who's only purpose is to focus group products into banal mediocrity.

Inevitable outcome is inevitable.

Bioware must fall so that Bioware can rise again.

@Hailinel said:

But why even go the Shepard-ish route in the first place? Why take away the option to play a dwarf or an elf?

In service of the overall story, I suppose. Granted the overall story wasn't good, but it might be why they limited it. I do like hearing my character speak though. That can limiting to your character as well, but it works for me.

Man I hope this is true. I want them to start fresh. Bioware is not what it once was. I want these two guys to start a new, smaller studio to make the games they want to make.

Good work guys. I don't like the phrase cut and run but this is all on them. The ugly turn Mass Effect 2 and 3 took, for me they were no longer RPGs. Or Dragon Age 2. Or this Star Wars thing. The whole deal with EA. They did the deal and now they run. Fuck them. Hope they got fired.

@TheHT said:

@TeflonBilly said:

@TheHT said:

@TeflonBilly said:

Good riddance, I've wished Bioware nothing but ill after shitting their pants three times ina row with DA2, ME3 and TOR.

THAT'S THREE STRIKES YA HOSERS! YEEEEEEEEEEEEER OUT!

You know, you don't have to play their games.

Wishing ill toward a company because their games aren't good enough for you is ridiculous.

Excuse me for having standards. If somebody continously screws up in my eyes, then they certainly don't deserve my patronage, fandom or reverence. Those games are among the biggest disappointments of this generation in my opinion and I'm not gonna shed a tear for a sickly, wounded wretch who's manages to fall off a cliff three times in a row due to it's own idiocy.

I call em like I see em, and that's how I roll.

It's not about having standards or finding a company undeserving of your business and fandom, it's about wishing ill towards a company solely for not meeting those standards.

Obviously your wishes are, in reality, utterly ineffective, but the sentiment is very dickish.

Hey, I've been called a dick before, but I don't see any reason for Bioware to be given the outrageous amount of resources and money they've been given for three blockbuster titles and having continually squandered that potential. Results talks and bullshit walks.

I just personally find there to have been something inherently broken within Bioware the last few years and a culture of unambitious and lazy game development has fermented because of it. They definitely earn the prize for least improved developer for a long while now and what I considered reverence for them has turned to scorn.

It's not even about active dislike of something, I can respect something I personally don't like, but I can sense talent, ambition or just inherent quality in. Bioware has done nothing, but either underachieve or plain screw up lately and they still don't seem to have learned their lessons from these missteps. Wether it's EA's influence or just a lack of ambition by the dev teams, I can't say I have any excitement for the prospect of Bioware products under the current climate and would rather see it disband and go for a clean slate in the form of new studios and maybe get back some of that chutzpah and fire that defined them as a top studio in the first place.

But then again, these are just the rantings of an insomniac who has no true insight to the inner workings of a business like EA and Bioware, it's just how I feel about them

@SimplyTron said:

Good work guys. I don't like the phrase cut and run but this is all on them. The ugly turn Mass Effect 2 and 3 took, for me they were no longer RPGs. Or Dragon Age 2. Or this Star Wars thing. The whole deal with EA. They did the deal and now they run. Fuck them. Hope they got fired.

You're a really positive person, aren't you?

@believer258 said:

@SimplyTron said:

Good work guys. I don't like the phrase cut and run but this is all on them. The ugly turn Mass Effect 2 and 3 took, for me they were no longer RPGs. Or Dragon Age 2. Or this Star Wars thing. The whole deal with EA. They did the deal and now they run. Fuck them. Hope they got fired.

You're a really positive person, aren't you?

I keep it real real son.

@mbr2 said:

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Ugh.

@TopSteer said:

@WilliamHenry said:

There is a huge difference between not liking their last three games and their last three games actually being bad games.

Is there? I don't believe there is such a thing as an objectively good or bad game. If I don't like a game I consider it bad regardless of how many people like it or how well it's made.

Then you may not be very smart. When I see a well made product I don't like say, "this just isn't for me". When I see a poorly made product I say, "this is bad and I do not like it."

@Meowshi said:

@TopSteer said:

@WilliamHenry said:

There is a huge difference between not liking their last three games and their last three games actually being bad games.

Is there? I don't believe there is such a thing as an objectively good or bad game. If I don't like a game I consider it bad regardless of how many people like it or how well it's made.

Then you may not be very smart. When I see a well made product I don't like say, "this just isn't for me". When I see a poorly made product I say, "this is bad and I do not like it."

I've never claimed to be smart, but yeah, that sentence was structured poorly. I really need to get some sleep. What I was trying to convey is that I like to think I can assess and recognize quality regardless of my personaly enjoyment of a game, however I feel that the work that they've done lately not only wasn't to my tastes, but just so much less than I expected them to do when I look at the resources they wield and the track record they have. All studios make a misstep or two, but missing the mark so egregiously three times in a row is a sign of a studio having lost it's touch. And their subsequent attitude about it hasn't exactly been indicative of them learning from their mistakes.

Errr... I assumed they'd left ages ago, must have been under a long contract or something. Hope they can get back to making good games now, everything developed under EA has been turd. I miss Golden Era Bioware.

Bioware hasn't been the same since ME1 and DA:O. Everything after has been subpar and trying too hard to cater to the more general public. Hopefully they can get back to their mor RPG roots.

Man.. Remember when Bioware could do no wrong? Those were the days.

I hope they form a new studio were they can take all the time they want to make games like they used too. Why put up with EA's crap, that is were this whole downfall started.

If true, I hope they start making ipad games just to fuck with all of you.

@TeflonBilly said:

@TheHT said:

@TeflonBilly said:

@TheHT said:

@TeflonBilly said:

Good riddance, I've wished Bioware nothing but ill after shitting their pants three times ina row with DA2, ME3 and TOR.

THAT'S THREE STRIKES YA HOSERS! YEEEEEEEEEEEEER OUT!

You know, you don't have to play their games.

Wishing ill toward a company because their games aren't good enough for you is ridiculous.

Excuse me for having standards. If somebody continously screws up in my eyes, then they certainly don't deserve my patronage, fandom or reverence. Those games are among the biggest disappointments of this generation in my opinion and I'm not gonna shed a tear for a sickly, wounded wretch who's manages to fall off a cliff three times in a row due to it's own idiocy.

I call em like I see em, and that's how I roll.

It's not about having standards or finding a company undeserving of your business and fandom, it's about wishing ill towards a company solely for not meeting those standards.

Obviously your wishes are, in reality, utterly ineffective, but the sentiment is very dickish.

Hey, I've been called a dick before, but I don't see any reason for Bioware to be given the outrageous amount of resources and money they've been given for three blockbuster titles and having continually squandered that potential. Results talks and bullshit walks.

I just personally find there to have been something inherently broken within Bioware the last few years and a culture of unambitious and lazy game development has fermented because of it. They definitely earn the prize for least improved developer for a long while now and what I considered reverence for them has turned to scorn.

It's not even about active dislike of something, I can respect something I personally don't like, but I can sense talent, ambition or just inherent quality in. Bioware has done nothing, but either underachieve or plain screw up lately and they still don't seem to have learned their lessons from these missteps. Wether it's EA's influence or just a lack of ambition by the dev teams, I can't say I have any excitement for the prospect of Bioware products under the current climate and would rather see it disband and go for a clean slate in the form of new studios and maybe get back some of that chutzpah and fire that defined them as a top studio in the first place.

But then again, these are just the rantings of an insomniac who has no true insight to the inner workings of a business like EA and Bioware, it's just how I feel about them

See, now none of that comes across as dickish. Juxtaposed with your original post, I think you, having shown yourself to not be all that unreasonable, can appreciate how much better this latter post is.

While the desired result (the breaking down of the company) might be shared between the posts, both couldn't be more opposed in sentiment. Where one is spiteful and boorish, the other is fair minded and optimistic. I doubt your first comment would have been met with any of the responses you received, mine included, had you first wrote what you wrote to me just now.

However if you hadn't written your original bad comment, perhaps you wouldn't have ever ended up writing this good one. Either way, well done.

@TeflonBilly said:

Hey, I've been called a dick before, but I don't see any reason for Bioware to be given the outrageous amount of resources and money they've been given for three blockbuster titles and having continually squandered that potential. Results talks and bullshit walks.

I just personally find there to have been something inherently broken within Bioware the last few years and a culture of unambitious and lazy game development has fermented because of it. They definitely earn the prize for least improved developer for a long while now and what I considered reverence for them has turned to scorn.

It's not even about active dislike of something, I can respect something I personally don't like, but I can sense talent, ambition or just inherent quality in. Bioware has done nothing, but either underachieve or plain screw up lately and they still don't seem to have learned their lessons from these missteps. Wether it's EA's influence or just a lack of ambition by the dev teams, I can't say I have any excitement for the prospect of Bioware products under the current climate and would rather see it disband and go for a clean slate in the form of new studios and maybe get back some of that chutzpah and fire that defined them as a top studio in the first place.

But then again, these are just the rantings of an insomniac who has no true insight to the inner workings of a business like EA and Bioware, it's just how I feel about them

I'll agree that DA2 and TOR weren't the successes that people wanted them to be. But ME3 is only really marred by its ending.

You say they lack ambition, but show me any other studio that has tried to do what Bioware tried to do with Mass Effect. No other studio has tried to make choices matter from game to game and have the player craft a personal experience and journey. They took a big step in the right direction for that type of hybrid rpg.

It's not as if the same studio is all making those games. They have various studios working on several games. They made a mistake with DA2 and how does that mistake equate with TOR or ME3's? All three are different types of games, that have different types of problems. Their lessons from those mistakes will be seen in the next games. Dragon Age 2 came out in early 2011, TOR in late 2011, and Mass Effect 3 earlier this year. Bioware will learn from those if they are given the chance, and if Dr. Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka are still there to right the ship.

@Brodehouse said:

@mbr2

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Dragon Age is really far more Song of Ice and Fire derivative than Tolkein.

Haha no it isnt! The whole intro to that game may as well be the "You have my Axe" scene from LOTR.

I am actually glad about this. They can start a new company, with their own ideals, and maybe this time they will want to stay more independant now that they've had their taste of the big corporations like EA. Their names alone will attract talent. I really hope this is true.

@Meowshi said:

@TopSteer said:

@WilliamHenry said:

There is a huge difference between not liking their last three games and their last three games actually being bad games.

Is there? I don't believe there is such a thing as an objectively good or bad game. If I don't like a game I consider it bad regardless of how many people like it or how well it's made.

Then you may not be very smart. When I see a well made product I don't like say, "this just isn't for me". When I see a poorly made product I say, "this is bad and I do not like it."

Really? Insulting my intelligence, nice. When I say a game is well made I'm generally talking how polished it is and such. This was also in response to this quote from WilliamHenry: "With all the shit games that get released today, to say anything Bioware has done is bad is just crazy talk". Which I took to mean that just because Bioware games are well made that they can't be considered worse than shovelware, which is complete and utter bullshit.

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Brodehouse said:

@mbr2

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Dragon Age is really far more Song of Ice and Fire derivative than Tolkein.

Haha no it isnt! The whole intro to that game may as well be the "You have my Axe" scene from LOTR.

Yeah it is. The intro to that game may as well be the scene where Jon Snow takes his Night's Watch vows in the haunted forest.

@Hailinel said:

@Adaurin said:

@Hailinel said:

The character creation is partially what drove me away from Dragon Age II. I loved the character creation in the first Dragon Age with its racial options and origin backgrounds. But those were all stripped out in Dragon Age II by their attempt to create Commander Shepard Hawke.

While I agree it could use more background thing, I felt that Hawke was far superior to Shepard. Not only did you have a general good/bad set of options, you also that layer of personality that the game would keep track of, so even if you didn't have exact control over what your character was saying in an action scene, the personality you choose continued to show. I loved my sarcastic Lady Hawke who cracked a joke or answered people sarcastically, but when needed made the moral decision. I felt that was a lot better then Shepard who, especially in mass effect 3, used the same dialogue independent of your choices when it wasn't op to you to pick a dialogue option.

But why even go the Shepard-ish route in the first place? Why take away the option to play a dwarf or an elf?

Because Mass Effect is the story of a space marine who graduated the N7 program and sees some shit on Eden Prime. Dragon Age 1 is the story of a Warden who survived the tragedy at Ostagar. Dragon Age 2 is the story of the oldest child of Malcolm Hawke and Leanna Amell and their siblings returning to the former home of Kirkwall and trying to re-establish themselves.

If anything I like Dragon Age 2 for breaking up the usual BioWare story of "you're part of a super select group of awesome fighters, but then something bad happened, and now it's up to you and you alone to save the world!" There's plenty disappointing about DA2, they could've done that arc in more detail if they had time (have age and hair changes happen to your party, etc), but I like the idea of the arc in DA2 a lot.

@Irvandus said:

Well German websites are always right. What does Gamebomb have to say on the matter?

@AngelN7: Shouldn't Origin be in that pile and Neversoft?

Technically Neversoft is still working in the EA salt mines, chained up and emaciated beyond recognition.

@Tebbit said:

@Irvandus said:

Well German websites are always right. What does Gamebomb have to say on the matter?

@AngelN7: Shouldn't Origin be in that pile and Neversoft?

Technically Neversoft is still working in the EA salt mines, chained up and emaciated beyond recognition.

Neversoft are activison dudes aint they?

@Sooty said:

Shame they they could have made Kotor 3 for half the price and probably double the profits.

Smartest thing I've heard since the announcement that TOR was to be an MMO.

@Tebbit said:

@Irvandus said:

Well German websites are always right. What does Gamebomb have to say on the matter?

@AngelN7: Shouldn't Origin be in that pile and Neversoft?

Technically Neversoft is still working in the EA salt mines, chained up and emaciated beyond recognition.

Neversoft are activison dudes aint they?

So I take it, that is this rumor is true, they will do a Respawn and join their vile forces with the evilest of evil Activision?

I love how much hate Bioware's getting for DA2, ME3, and TOR. Let me fix you all.

A) ME3 was delayed at least once. Therefore, EA and Bioware were working at a timely release without rushing it. You want Bioware to work on Valve time? Yeah bitches. Plus, deadlines have to be met in a developer/publisher relationship. You want Bioware to make the next Duke Nukem Forever? Yeah bitches.

B) TOR was made by a new studio full of guys that can let go tomarrow and Bioware's core team won't be affected. Based on the 1 game they made, I'd like to see them dissolved.

C) However, yeah I agree, DA2 was rushed...

I wouldn't be surprised if they left. They may be the sacrificial goats here, taking the blame for the Tortantic whatnot. I'd be interested in seeing what end up doing in life after Bioware. I guess I hope they do something a little higher profile than iPhone games, but who knows. Maybe running a studio isn't what they would even want to get back into. It's not like Will Wright is still in gaming. I'd personally think it would be funny for them to join the Valve fold and get back into the business of designing great single player RPGs, but that's probably just a fevered dream.

Flip the shareholders the finger. Count the money on the bank. Say goodbyes to workplace friends. Start enjoying life. The only purpose when waking up in the mornings, being in making it a good day... for yourself and yours.

You can be certain they've got anywhere between 10 and a 100 big ones liquid on the bank. Millions of dollars, I'm talking of course. Enough for pancake breakfast everyday. And then some. Just make sure to do your cardio, and you're golden.

Co-Founder
Bioware
Public Company; 501-1000 employees; ERTS; Computer Games industry
– (17 years 7 months)
General Manager, BioWare Austin
Bioware
Public Company; 501-1000 employees; ERTS; Computer Games industry
– (2 years) Austin, Texas Area
Helping to get Star Wars: The Old Republic done and supported by a great service for many, many years.

From Greg Zeschuk's LinkIn profile, as provided by the article.

Don't start eulogizing Bioware just yet. As I understand it, BioWare Austin is a separate entity from the main BioWare studio. Just because he stopped being the General Manager at BioWare Austin, doesn't mean that he left BioWare.

@Twinsun said:

Man.. Remember when Bioware could do no wrong?

Not really. They still made Jade Empire and that weird Sonic RPG.

@iAmJohn: Jade Empire was amazing.

@iAmJohn: That weird Sonic RPG was also pretty good, for a Sonic game.

@Tebbit said:

@Irvandus said:

Well German websites are always right. What does Gamebomb have to say on the matter?

@AngelN7: Shouldn't Origin be in that pile and Neversoft?

Technically Neversoft is still working in the EA salt mines, chained up and emaciated beyond recognition.

Neversoft are activison dudes aint they?

@Hailinel said:

@mbr2 said:

@Brodehouse said:

@mbr2

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Dragon Age is really far more Song of Ice and Fire derivative than Tolkein.

..... and what do you think George RR Martin based his work off?

Actually, A Song of Ice and Fire is heavily influenced and inspired by the War of the Roses.

Impossible. It's fantasy. It MUST be a rip off of LoTR.

@iAmJohn said:

@Twinsun said:

Man.. Remember when Bioware could do no wrong?

Not really. They still made Jade Empire and that weird Sonic RPG.

I liked Jade Empire, and I never played that Sonic thing.

@Brodehouse said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Brodehouse said:

@mbr2

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Dragon Age is really far more Song of Ice and Fire derivative than Tolkein.

Haha no it isnt! The whole intro to that game may as well be the "You have my Axe" scene from LOTR.

Yeah it is. The intro to that game may as well be the scene where Jon Snow takes his Night's Watch vows in the haunted forest.

Huh, I hadn't thought of that but the game pretty much is The Wall the Game. In a way, you could say DAII tries to pull from the other, more grounded and dramatic parts of Song of Ice and Fire but just fails to execute it well.

@mbr2 said:

@Brodehouse said:

@mbr2

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Dragon Age is really far more Song of Ice and Fire derivative than Tolkein.

..... and what do you think George RR Martin based his work off?

Everything is influenced on some level by something else, no one cares.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/13530116

"False"

@Brodehouse said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Brodehouse said:

@mbr2

How will I get my Tolkien and Star Wars derivative RPGs now!?

Dragon Age is really far more Song of Ice and Fire derivative than Tolkein.

Haha no it isnt! The whole intro to that game may as well be the "You have my Axe" scene from LOTR.

Yeah it is. The intro to that game may as well be the scene where Jon Snow takes his Night's Watch vows in the haunted forest.

Huh, I hadn't thought of that but the game pretty much is The Wall the Game. In a way, you could say DAII tries to pull from the other, more grounded and dramatic parts of Song of Ice and Fire but just fails to execute it well.

@TopSteer said:

@Meowshi said:

@TopSteer said:

@WilliamHenry said:

There is a huge difference between not liking their last three games and their last three games actually being bad games.

Is there? I don't believe there is such a thing as an objectively good or bad game. If I don't like a game I consider it bad regardless of how many people like it or how well it's made.

Then you may not be very smart. When I see a well made product I don't like say, "this just isn't for me". When I see a poorly made product I say, "this is bad and I do not like it."

Really? Insulting my intelligence, nice. When I say a game is well made I'm generally talking how polished it is and such. This was also in response to this quote from WilliamHenry: "With all the shit games that get released today, to say anything Bioware has done is bad is just crazy talk". Which I took to mean that just because Bioware games are well made that they can't be considered worse than shovelware, which is complete and utter bullshit.

No argument there. Definitely not trying to stick up for Bioware here, lol

@Brodehouse said:

@EuanDewar

@Tebbit said:

@Irvandus said:

Well German websites are always right. What does Gamebomb have to say on the matter?

@AngelN7: Shouldn't Origin be in that pile and Neversoft?

Technically Neversoft is still working in the EA salt mines, chained up and emaciated beyond recognition.

Neversoft are activison dudes aint they?

Yeah, EA has captured Neversoft and are trying to ransom them to Activision. But moneybags Kotick won't pay the price! He's upset about the betrayal of his top generals West and Zampella.

I like this explanation of my misunderstanding the best.

@CptBedlam said:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/13530116

"False"

Fucking Bioware moderators, they lock everything on site, even discussion threads. Anyone remember Stanry Roo?

Yeah, damn those mods for locking threads making fun of their employees.

So, this rumor. Much ado.