Borderlands 2 sucks, and microtransactions would save it.

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#1 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

Duders. First off, you'll have to forgive my wordy thread title, but I felt it needed accuracy.

Okay, so today I was playing Borderlands 2. I was goofing around and having a great time. Then I figured that I wanted a black outfit for my Commando. I googled it, and was pointed toward the Black Ops outfit. I then learned that the only way to obtain the Black Ops outfit is to farm four assassins, at a 0.9% drop rate for the outfit.

So for the last six hours, I've been farming those motherfuckers, and I've got nothing to show for it. And that fucking sucks. I mean come on, it's just so fucking frustrating.

My question to Randy Pitchford is this:

WHY THE FUCK CAN'T I PAY YOU MONEY FOR IT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO HIDE IT BEHIND DAYS OF FARMING?

I just had to write that in call caps. It's just so fucking bad game design.

  • If a player is willing to lay down six hours, doing the same thing over and over, reward him! He's obviously shown commitment!
  • If it is impossible for a sane person to aquire the item, why not let them throw money after you, even though you designed your game as crap?

Does anyone agree that this is just fucking silly? It's shows no respect towards the player. Shame on you Gearbox.

Side note: If anyone has the Black Ops outfit, and is willing to trade it, then please, I beg of you to trade with me.

EDIT: No, I don't think the game actually sucks, or else I wouldn't be farming for this stupid item. It's just the way I talk after wasting six hours in one location, farming one item. Borderlands 2 is actually pretty good, and I don't get why Jeff is not a fan.

#2 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -

Welcome to loot-driven games. But I would never recommend farming items in Borderlands 2 because the updates tend to randomly delete any dropped customization items and much of your Badass rank. That's what happened to me a few months ago after DOZENS of hours farming for heads and stuff. Consider this a warning. It's not worth the frustration.

#3 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@mariachimacabre: That's literally the worst. But I can't imagine they'll keep updating it?

#4 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

So a game sucks because your upset about a drop rate of some cosmetic thing?

#5 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

So a game sucks because your upset about a drop rate of some cosmetic thing?

Yes. And Rat Theives. All of a sudden, I was missing 20.000$, and I didn't understand why. Turns out they stole it. Another poor design choice. Also, Rakk.

#6 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1745 posts) -

Alright, I'll give you that the drop rates for almost anything of worth in BL2 are fucking horrible, but suggesting that including one of the worst trends plaguing the industry right now would be a better solution is downright stupid. They already sell skin packs anyway, so it's really too late. Also, it's a player skin that you won't be looking at for most of the time that has no effect on the game whatsoever. Not really something I would ever consider wasting 6 hours trying to get.

#7 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -

@legion_ said:

@mariachimacabre: That's literally the worst. But I can't imagine they'll keep updating it?

I'm talking any title update.They claimed to have fixed the issue after the first title update but this happened to me in March.

#8 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@legion_ said:

@mariachimacabre: That's literally the worst. But I can't imagine they'll keep updating it?

I'm talking any title update.They claimed to have fixed the issue after the first title update but this happened to me in March.

That's what I mean though, they probably won't patch it again? As far as I know, they're done with DLC, and has wrapped up all internal development on that game.

#9 Edited by believer258 (11905 posts) -

Alright, I'll give you that the drop rates for almost anything of worth in BL2 are fucking horrible, but suggesting that including one of the worst trends plaguing the industry right now would be a better solution is downright stupid. They already sell skin packs anyway, so it's really too late. Also, it's a player skin that you won't be looking at for most of the time that has no effect on the game whatsoever. Not really something I would ever consider wasting 6 hours trying to get.

This.

Borderlands 2's drop rate for good guns, shields, etc. could definitely be improved, but microtransactions do not improve anything, and they damn sure do not improve a game that you pay money for.

#10 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

Alright, I'll give you that the drop rates for almost anything of worth in BL2 are fucking horrible, but suggesting that including one of the worst trends plaguing the industry right now would be a better solution is downright stupid. They already sell skin packs anyway, so it's really too late. Also, it's a player skin that you won't be looking at for most of the time that has no effect on the game whatsoever. Not really something I would ever consider wasting 6 hours trying to get.

But it's not though. How is it bad that I can buy a cosmetic item, instead of using six hours to farm for it? It only makes sense. It's not something that breaks the game, it's purely a piece of clothing I want. The game would benefit from it, as people who actually have jobs will be able to get that damned skin.

#11 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@onekillwonder_ said:

Alright, I'll give you that the drop rates for almost anything of worth in BL2 are fucking horrible, but suggesting that including one of the worst trends plaguing the industry right now would be a better solution is downright stupid. They already sell skin packs anyway, so it's really too late. Also, it's a player skin that you won't be looking at for most of the time that has no effect on the game whatsoever. Not really something I would ever consider wasting 6 hours trying to get.

This.

Borderlands 2's drop rate for good guns, shields, etc. could definitely be improved, but microtransactions do not improve anything, and they damn sure do not improve a game that you pay money for.

Microtransactions for cosmetic items would make the game better. There would still be a way to obtain it without paying for it, but it really sucks that a normal person can't get that skin, especially considering it's the only black skin in the whole game (for the commando). It's the type of unintrusive microtransaction that would benefit both the developer and the consumer.

#12 Posted by Jayzilla (2561 posts) -

The game didn't live up to most of our expectations after Borderlands 1 was so great. Saying it sucks is hyperbole. It doesn't suck. It's a good game. It's just not as good as the first 1. You know which sequel sucked? Duke Nukem Forever.

#13 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

The drop rates in BL2 were fucking atrocious, and pretty much the main reason I stopped playing.

#14 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@jayzilla said:

The game didn't live up to most of our expectations after Borderlands 1 was so great. Saying it sucks is hyperbole. It doesn't suck. It's a good game. It's just not as good as the first 1. You know which sequel sucked? Duke Nukem Forever.

Fair enough. Up until now, I'd rather enjoyed my time with the game. Liked it a hell of a lot more than Borderlands 1 at least. If I never see Fyrestone again, it'll be too soon.

#15 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -

@legion_ said:

@jayzilla said:

The game didn't live up to most of our expectations after Borderlands 1 was so great. Saying it sucks is hyperbole. It doesn't suck. It's a good game. It's just not as good as the first 1. You know which sequel sucked? Duke Nukem Forever.

Fair enough. Up until now, I'd rather enjoyed my time with the game. Liked it a hell of a lot more than Borderlands 1 at least. If I never see Fyrestone again, it'll be too soon.

There's still the final campaign DLC coming out. And they haven't confirmed or denied new characters, as far as I've heard.

#16 Posted by Sinusoidal (1493 posts) -

There's farming done right, and there's farming done poorly. Borderlands 2's farming falls somewhere off the line past "poorly" and straight into "fuck this shit!" I don't mind a small chance of something dropping, just don't put that small chance on only ONE enemy in the entire game!

Borderlands 1 farming: run around opening various chests and killing different enemies, seeing the world, gaining some levels.

Borderlands 2 farming: reload the same tedious fucking boss fight over and over and over andoverandoverandover.

Borderlands 1, I played to death and was never at a want for awesome weapons. Borderlands 2, I gave up shortly into TVHM and wasted more time than I care to recall killing BNK3R and the final boss over and over and over andoverandover and never got the ones I wanted, or indeed anything useful from either of them.

#17 Posted by Landon (4143 posts) -

The Vladof Sickle outfit looks almost the exact same and is much easier to get. Try going for that.

#18 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

There's farming done right, and there's farming done poorly. Borderlands 2's farming falls somewhere off the line past "poorly" and straight into "fuck this shit!" I don't mind a small chance of something dropping, just don't put that small chance on only ONE enemy in the entire game!

Borderlands 1 farming: run around opening various chests and killing different enemies, seeing the world, gaining some levels.

Borderlands 2 farming: reload the same tedious fucking boss fight over and over and over andoverandoverandover.

Borderlands 1, I played to death and was never at a want for awesome weapons. Borderlands 2, I gave up shortly into TVHM and wasted more time than I care to recall killing BNK3R and the final boss over and over and over andoverandover and never got the ones I wanted, or indeed anything useful from either of them.

Didn't realize that there was consensus about how bad drop rates in this game are. Glad to see I'm not alone here at the very least. This begs the question, why the fuck haven't Gearbox listened to the community? That has to be something they can twek on their end.

#19 Posted by Slag (4366 posts) -

Microtransactions for loot in a loot driven 60 dollar game?

Eff that.

#20 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@landon said:

The Vladof Sickle outfit looks almost the exact same and is much easier to get. Try going for that.

The Vladof Sickle outfir barely has black on it at all. It's just the upper torso, while anything below is very light grey. Black Ops looks way cooler. Too bad it's so insanely hard to get.

#21 Edited by OneKillWonder_ (1745 posts) -

@legion_ said:

@sinusoidal said:

There's farming done right, and there's farming done poorly. Borderlands 2's farming falls somewhere off the line past "poorly" and straight into "fuck this shit!" I don't mind a small chance of something dropping, just don't put that small chance on only ONE enemy in the entire game!

Borderlands 1 farming: run around opening various chests and killing different enemies, seeing the world, gaining some levels.

Borderlands 2 farming: reload the same tedious fucking boss fight over and over and over andoverandoverandover.

Borderlands 1, I played to death and was never at a want for awesome weapons. Borderlands 2, I gave up shortly into TVHM and wasted more time than I care to recall killing BNK3R and the final boss over and over and over andoverandover and never got the ones I wanted, or indeed anything useful from either of them.

Didn't realize that there was consensus about how bad drop rates in this game are. Glad to see I'm not alone here at the very least. This begs the question, why the fuck haven't Gearbox listened to the community? That has to be something they can twek on their end.

I'm sure they are fully aware of it, as it's probably the biggest complaint I've seen about the game. And they definitely can fix it any time they want, they just don't. Their whole SHIFT thing allows them to change any variables they want any time they want without having to issue a title update. The update just applies whenever you play the game online. It's how they've been able to do their special loot weekends, where certain gear types have a higher chance of dropping from certain enemies. So trust me, if they wanted to fix the general drop rates for loot, they would.

#22 Edited by Milkman (16788 posts) -

You're right. Borderlands 2 does suck but microtransactions wouldn't fix that.

#23 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5491 posts) -

#24 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@legion_ said:

@sinusoidal said:

There's farming done right, and there's farming done poorly. Borderlands 2's farming falls somewhere off the line past "poorly" and straight into "fuck this shit!" I don't mind a small chance of something dropping, just don't put that small chance on only ONE enemy in the entire game!

Borderlands 1 farming: run around opening various chests and killing different enemies, seeing the world, gaining some levels.

Borderlands 2 farming: reload the same tedious fucking boss fight over and over and over andoverandoverandover.

Borderlands 1, I played to death and was never at a want for awesome weapons. Borderlands 2, I gave up shortly into TVHM and wasted more time than I care to recall killing BNK3R and the final boss over and over and over andoverandover and never got the ones I wanted, or indeed anything useful from either of them.

Didn't realize that there was consensus about how bad drop rates in this game are. Glad to see I'm not alone here at the very least. This begs the question, why the fuck haven't Gearbox listened to the community? That has to be something they can twek on their end.

I'm sure they are fully aware of it, as it's probably the biggest complaint I've seen about the game. And they definitely can fix it any time they want, they just don't. Their whole SHIFT thing allows them to change any variables they want any time they want without having to issue a title update. The update just applies whenever you play the game online. It's how they've been able to do their special loot weekends, where certain gear types have a higher chance of dropping from certain enemies. So trust me, if they wanted to fix the general drop rates for loot, they would.

Huh, just seems crazy to me that they ignore what the fans are saying. Between this, Aliens and Duke, I'm kinda lukewarm for Gearbox at the moment.

#26 Edited by Trilogy (2653 posts) -

Borderlands 2 is awesome and fuck micro transactions. Fixing droprates is totally acceptable and the wiser method of tackling the issue.

#27 Posted by BillyTheKid (486 posts) -

Microtransactions, no. Changing the code for drops, yes. Simple fix and you should not pay them a dime for doing something like that.

#28 Posted by NicksCorner (416 posts) -

Of course the game sucks if you spend six hours grinding for a single cosmetic item.

I have put 125+ hours into the game across four different chars, seems pretty alright to me.

Micro transactions is a curse upon gaming. Shoo!

#29 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4800 posts) -

The problem with Borderlands 2 is that they veered far away from the loot-driven single player "looter-shooter". While indeed great weapons were rare in Borderlands 1, they weren't impossible to find. By the end of a playthrough if you didn't have at least half a dozen orange items you probably weren't being that thorough with chests.

Borderlands 2 ruins the formula by trying to turn it into a single player MMO. That sucks. Grinding bosses isn't fun. Grinding levels isn't fun. Getting roflstomped by enemies your level or one level above for the hell of it isn't fun. Grinding a tough boss only for sub-par weapons to drop is most certainly not fun.

At the end of the day, Borderlands was a co op shooter that could be played single player and enjoyed just as much. Borderlands 2 is a co op shooter and actively punishes you for playing single player. Not only are the drop rates in single player absolutely awful, but the weapons you do get are so incredibly underpowered that you might as well just start banging your head on a wall until you pass out from blood loss or brain damage. That'd probably be more fun than Borderlands 2, now that I think about it.

#30 Posted by gogosox82 (424 posts) -

Well your right in saying its bad game design to give one enemy a very small chance of dropping an item you want but I don't see how adding microtransactions would help. They'd probably just charge you a ridiculous price and take advantage of you. Besides, do you really wanna trust Gearbox with something like this, especially after the A:CM disaster. I sure don't.

#31 Edited by SuperfluousMoniker (2908 posts) -

I think Borderlands 2 sucks as well, but not really for the same reason. More to do with the repetitive gameplay, poor balance, and horrible map system.

#32 Edited by JeanLuc (3583 posts) -

Why would you feel the need to grind 6 hours for a skin? I get doing that for a weapon or shield but you barely see the outfits. I will agree that some of the weapon drops are bullshit, but at no point are you ever hindered from finishing the game because you didn't have a particular weapon.

#33 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@akyho said:

@legion_: Well isnt that stupid idea, since you seem to forget companies will abuse this and love to prey on idiots like yourself. Go to a F2P MMO if you want the choice of Grinding for loot or paying for virtual cosmetic items to save time.

Check your attitude kid. I love how everyone hates microtransactions by default. If done right, there's nothing detremental about them. If given the choice between grinding for several hours, or paying a small amount to buy a item that is purely cosmetical, then I know what I'd choose every time. It's my money, and if I have enough of it to spend on stuff like that, then why not? As long as it's only cosmetic items, and you still have the ability to find them in the game, there is absolutely nothing wrong with microtransactions.

#34 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@jeanluc said:

Why would you feel the need to grind 6 hours for a skin? I get doing that for a weapon or shield but you barely see the outfits. I will agree that some of the weapon drops are bullshit, but at no point are you ever hindered from finishing the game because you didn't have a particular weapon.

I like that my character looks cool.

#35 Posted by TangoUp (307 posts) -

You'd love Mass Effect 3 OP.

#36 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

@tangoup said:

You'd love Mass Effect 3 OP.

I do love Mass Effect 3, but not for the microtransactions. ME3's slot machines are not the right way to do it. As I've said, cosmetic items that are obtainable either through microtransactions or actions in-game are fair.

#37 Posted by SexualBubblegumX (542 posts) -

I used to play lots of Diablo 2 back in they day, and spending crazy amounts of time for the sake of drops is one of the fun parts of a game like this. I don't understand why the game sucks because you're having a hard time finding a rare item.

#38 Posted by NoK (308 posts) -

So a game sucks because your upset about a drop rate of some cosmetic thing?

#39 Posted by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

I used to play lots of Diablo 2 back in they day, and spending crazy amounts of time for the sake of drops is one of the fun parts of a game like this. I don't understand why the game sucks because you're having a hard time finding a rare item.

Because I shouldn't have to grind for more than six hours to get a skin for my character. Had it been a rare weapon? Sure, whatever. This is just a black skin. Easy as that.

#40 Posted by geirr (2570 posts) -

You're both wrong and wrong.

#41 Edited by Tennmuerti (8100 posts) -

There is a save editor out for BL2. You can give yourself anything you want with it including skins. Not sure if it works with 360 saves, last one (for BL1) did. So you might give that a shot.

Like others have said, yes loot drop rate for oranges/skins in BL2 could use some tweaking.

But saying the entire game sucks because of that (low drop on a skin you almost never see) is a silly hyperbole. And F2P micro transactions can go take a hike up a hairy elephant ass. Microtransactions would instantly alienate a huge portion of people who are fans of the game.

#42 Edited by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

Yes the drop rates are awful, it doesn't make the game awful. I'd agree with:

@jeanluc said:

Why would you feel the need to grind 6 hours for a skin? I get doing that for a weapon or shield but you barely see the outfits. I will agree that some of the weapon drops are bullshit, but at no point are you ever hindered from finishing the game because you didn't have a particular weapon.

Also all black is overrated.

#43 Edited by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

I'd rather dedicated players get the shiniest item than people who pay for it, but really it doesn't matter unless you fixate on it. By the time I beat the game and all of the DLC, I could have gone back and farmed for days but I already sunk far too much time into it and just stopped playing. I'll agree that those drop rates are hideous though, anything under 1% is just not worth it.

#45 Posted by BisonHero (6523 posts) -

Loot grinds in general suck, which is why I made the regret-free decision to skip D3, Torchlight II, and Borderlands 2. I'm not 12 anymore, and it just feels like a waste of time to play any of those games.

#46 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -

It's called "playing the game", OP. Wanting to pay money in order to not have to play as much is idiotic in my opinion. Some gamers seem to have forgotten that playing games is a past-time and reaching virtual goals isn't worth anything.

#47 Posted by mosespippy (4180 posts) -

@legion_ said:

But it's not though. How is it bad that I can buy a cosmetic item, instead of using six hours to farm for it?

Because the longer it takes to farm an item the more likely it is that people would rather pay for it. It incentivizes the developer to make the drop rates worse to encourage more people to purchase the thing instead.

All items in the game are infinitely copyable. I have 6 mules for carrying orange tier level 50 guns and cosmetic items. Most of those I got because I had an item or two that someone was missing and they had an item or two that I was missing. I even got the collector's edition skins that way. When doing a trade like this it's as easy to duplicate everything on the mule as it is to duplicate just the items in question. I'm sure if you went to the Borderlands forums on the gearbox site you'd find dozens of people with the full set of items willing to make you a copy. Or you could use the save editor.

I think Borderlands 2 sucks as well, but not really for the same reason. More to do with the repetitive gameplay, poor balance, and horrible map system.

I think Borderlands 2 sucks as well, but it had more to do with the bad level design and awful writing.

#49 Edited by Legion_ (1282 posts) -

It's called "playing the game", OP. Wanting to play money in order to not have to play as much is idiotic in my opinion. Some gamers seem to have forgotten that playing games is a past-time and reaching virtual goals isn't worth anything.

Is it idiotic to pay a dollar to not have to grind the same area for at least six hours? You and I have differing definitions of idiotic.

#50 Edited by EXTomar (4726 posts) -

*shrug* I play games like Borderlands 2 (and Diablo 3 for that matter) for the team based game. I'm not sure why people would think loot would be the be all end all thing to Borderlands 2. Adding microtransactions would do nothing for it.

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