Borderlands 2 will feature infinite levels of progression

#1 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3559 posts) -

Welcome to the Badass ranking system.

It's touched upon in this video:

But it's explained in far greater detail here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-13-borderlands-2-badass-system-has-infinite-levels-of-progression

Gearbox Software has unveiled Borderlands 2's Badass system, its character-wide progression system with an infinite number of levels.
As you play Borderlands 2 you level up your Badass rank, which is linked to your profile but provides statistical bonuses to all your characters - new and old.
Each time you use a token gained through Badass, the game randomly picks a set of statistics. Then, you decide which statistic to increase. It's all powered by a secret algorithm the developer is keeping close to its chest, Gearbox chief Randy Picthford, who expects to see long-term players with Badass levels in the thousands, told Eurogamer he believes the system is the first of its kind.
"I don't know of any examples," he said. "There are a couple of games that have done profile levelling. Even Call of Duty multiplayer, your growth is profile related, not character related, but they don't have character choices. You're not growing characters.
"And I haven't seen one that's comfortable with infini-growth. Everything puts a cap onto it."
Using data based on how Borderlands 1 players played the game some two-and-a-half years after launch, Gearbox is able to extrapolate how players will play the sequel two-and-a-half years after it launches, and use mathematical models to predict how the Badass system will evolve.
It's all part of Gearbox's effort to create a hobby with Borderlands 2, something players continue to play for years.
"Borderlands was a weird thing in the sense that, a lot of games are designed to be a story you consume and then you're done," Pitchford said. "Whereas Borderlands was this thing that launched and then both in sales and in playtime it kept accelerating, instead of just launching big and then dropping off."
Borderlands 2's expected enduring popularity should enable Gearbox to make a "really big investment" in downloadable content, much in the same way it did with Borderlands 1.
There's also the issue of value, Pitchford added. He hopes that by creating a game that, technically, will last players forever, they will feel they're getting value for money.
"They got to take a risk. They've got to spend some money. They've got to buy a game. And I want them to feel like, man, the value I'm getting out of this, it's not only worth the $60 or whatever, I'm getting more value out of this than the last $500 I spent on other video games. We want that goodwill.
"So we're thinking about it like a hobby and not like just a consumable, get it done and get ready to buy your next game."
#2 Posted by ajamafalous (11854 posts) -

Interesting. I'm excited to see this in GW2 and now Borderlands 2. It's exactly the type of system that I felt was missing from Diablo III.

#3 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

Everything I see about this game has me extremely excited. Easily my most anticipated game of the year.

#4 Posted by ThePhantomStranger (353 posts) -

This sounds interesting, how do they balance that sort of a system? Are we going to be seeing players with insane stats? Why would they keep playing past that point if they already have insane stats?

Dammit I want this game!

#5 Posted by BeachThunder (11702 posts) -

So, why isn't it September yet?

#6 Edited by Vinny_Says (5688 posts) -

It's way too late for me to read all that but does it mean I can get every single upgrade?

#7 Edited by BigDaddy81 (317 posts) -

I really hope my two week vacation gets approved in September. This might be the last game I need to buy this year.

Hopefully they go a little more in depth on these Badass points since I'm still not fully understanding their implementation.

EDIT: Never mind, the video actually explained things a little bit better. So looking forward to seeing how high I can get my Badass ranking. Also loved that single-action revolver.

#8 Edited by _Chad (963 posts) -

Everything I hear about this game might make this my new favorite game.  
 
Also they are making this game EVERYTHING a sequel should be.

#9 Posted by Ares42 (2577 posts) -

I like the idea of a profile based levelling, giving you even more incentive to start over again with new characters, but it sounds like something that will eventually just break the game for you. If you're able to get infinite stat boosts, at a certain point you'll just become completely invincible and kill everything instantly. Ofc the bonuses might so minor that it would "never" happen, but then the whole thing sorta loses it's value. I guess with the stats they have about how much people have played the first one they might be able to tweak it so that even if someone plays the second just as much as they played the first it won't break the game, and hopefully it'll still be significant enough to care about for everyone else.

It just sorta reminds me about the weapon skill system in the first one. It was there, it gave you some bonuses, but only the crazy people cared enough to grind it out.

#10 Posted by Cincaid (2953 posts) -

Borderlands 2 and XCOM: Enemy Unknown are probably the only two games I'm going [I can afford] to buy this year. I'll rob an old lady if I have to, damnit!

#11 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2224 posts) -

@Vinny_Says said:

It's way too late for me to read all that but does it mean I can get every single upgrade?

Its not related to the skill trees but rather general stats. The example given was being able to increase damage.

I'm guessing its something extremely small like 0.1% of an increase, but since you can have infinite points in theory, it kinda evens out sorta

#12 Posted by Talis12 (488 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

So, why isn't it September yet?

time.. it keeps screwing with our brains

#13 Posted by probablytuna (3540 posts) -

Sounds very neat, this is one of the things that will greatly benefit people who want to try out all the classes but can't be bothered playing a new class with shit all stats/gear. I wonder why other games haven't done this? At least none that I know of.

#14 Posted by eroticfishcake (7782 posts) -

INFINITE DRAGONS!!!

I really hope this turns out well since the first one was conceptually interesting but missed it's mark by quite a distance (for me at least.) That plus it's been a long ass time since I've actually played an FPS.

#15 Posted by Morrow (1828 posts) -

Sounds great. If they put so much effort into it, why no third person view option? :[

#16 Edited by Yummylee (21271 posts) -

So it's basically like if your weapon proficiencies could carry over - neato.

@Morrow said:

Sounds great. If they put so much effort into it, why no third person view option? :[

I s'pose I wouldn't mind this sort of alternative as well, especially what with the increased cosmetic options now. It'd be like the Fallout/Elder Scrolls stuff in that it probably doesn't work when you play in third person, but I still want to see my character all decked out just for a few minutes. I can deal without the option, though.

#17 Posted by hbkdx12 (779 posts) -

That's so awesome.

Borderlands was such a surprise hit for me. I bought it because a friend coaxed me into doing it so we could play together and i ended up loving it way more than they did.

I love that he's genuinely excited about the new features and such.

#18 Edited by zaglis (909 posts) -

I dunno.
 
Gearbox (Randy Pitchford, mostly) loves to over hype things

#19 Posted by Village_Guy (2497 posts) -

Infinite leveling, eh? I wasn't the biggest fan of the first Borderlands, but this seems like it is pretty much doing it right.

INFINITE Leveling!
Online
#20 Posted by BoFooQ (659 posts) -

I'm alittle confused. Is there 2 leveling systems or just the badass profile level? The way I think it works is you level up each character to a certain point, than you get your badass levels once you have maxed out a guy. These badass points than carry with you to any character you play with.

I like the idea, at the same time I'm not sure I understand clearly how things work.

#21 Posted by XtremePudim (86 posts) -

i didnt like Borderlands 1 at all, but after Alex's preview and this i find myself willing to give Borderlands 2 a try, hopefully it will live up to the hype

#22 Posted by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

This just secured the fact that I will be splitting my time between Borderlands 2 and Guild Wars 2 for the rest of eternity.

#23 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3559 posts) -

@BoFooQ said:

I'm alittle confused. Is there 2 leveling systems or just the badass profile level? The way I think it works is you level up each character to a certain point, than you get your badass levels once you have maxed out a guy. These badass points than carry with you to any character you play with.

I like the idea, at the same time I'm not sure I understand clearly how things work.

There are at least two--possibly three--leveling systems.

1) Standard leveling, allowing you to pick skills with each level. I believe there are 50 levels, much like the original launch of the first Borderlands.

2) Badass leveling, allowing you to level up every character under your profile. You gain Badass tokens for accomplishing certain goals that are unrelated to the story. An example might be kill 25 enemies at nighttime, or kill 15 enemies with grenades. When you spend a token, the game selects some stats from the master list of possible upgrades, and then you get to select from that smaller pool of possible upgrades.

For a picture of the Badass stats screen, click here.

I assume the game will increase the goal requirements as they're accomplished, giving you new versions of those objectives. Kill 25 skags, kill 75 skags, kill 125 skags, etc. Even if these were eventually limited--such as only 4 or 5 levels of each goal--you'd just have to start a new character to continue earning the rewards.

Lastly, for those who do not like the idea of the game becoming easier as you play it with somewhat "pre-leveled" characters, you'll be happy to know that you can toggle the upgrades on / off for your profile, depending whether you're looking for a challenge or not.

3) Weapon category leveling, which was in the first Borderlands. Either it has been replaced by the Badass system, or it will be in the game alongside both the Badass system and your standard leveling. Anyone happen to know if weapon leveling will definitely appear in the new game? I don't think I've heard either way.

#24 Edited by Tennmuerti (8005 posts) -

@zaglis said:

I dunno. Gearbox (Randy Pitchford, mostly) loves to over hype things

I don't remember the guy ever outright lying about features in his upcoming games, unlike say Peter M. or Todd Howard

#25 Posted by Trilogy (2645 posts) -

I loved Borderlands one and this sounds fucking amazing. I had this moment watching the video when he was talking about the ninja class with the sword lunge where I thought to myself, "It would be cool if you could reset the cooldown of that off a kill." Then, as soon as he was about to explain that very thing I finished his sentence together with him and smiled. It sounds silly but it's very rare that a game's mechanics live up to their potential. I know its just one thing but it made me happy. Also, the infinite leveling sounds pretty awesome. One of my issues with the first game was that there wasn't a lot of end game after you got one class up to the max level. There was the DLC but those were kind of hit and miss in terms of quality. Anyway, I can't wait. This is a day one purchase from me for sure.

#26 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6090 posts) -

Holy shit, that's awesome. I just created a new lake filled with drool. You're welcome, thirsty desert people.

Moderator Online
#27 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -
"So we're thinking about it like a hobby and not like just a consumable, get it done and get ready to buy your next game."

Glad to hear this.

#28 Posted by Bleeble (95 posts) -

Can't wait for this game to come out! Easily my most anticipated game of 2012.

#29 Posted by BigDaddy81 (317 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

This just secured the fact that I will be splitting my time between Borderlands 2 and Guild Wars 2 for the rest of eternity.

Motherfuck, I forgot Guild Wars 2 came out a month earlier than Borderlands 2!

Alright, guess I'll just have to max out every class and consume all of the content of Guild Wars 2 in a month's time. A plan this perfect can't possibly fail.

#30 Posted by minotaka (320 posts) -

woot :)))

#31 Posted by Shindiggah (350 posts) -

The more I read about this game the more I want to give them my money.

#32 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

How many levels is that?

#33 Posted by BigDaddyDre (17 posts) -

I can't freaking wait until September. I found the level cap sort of annoying last time, as I could've probably kept going. Damn Crawmarax!!!

This game is going to be sweeeeeet!!

#34 Posted by Redbullet685 (6025 posts) -

I am so ready for this. I just don't know what class I'll play. I started as a Soldier in the first and that was an easy choice for me, but all of the classes sound awesome in this one. I may just pick the Gunzerker just to throw up the dual birds.

#35 Posted by BrainSonata (105 posts) -

Randy Pitchford is looking more and more like Roman Bellic.

#36 Posted by Tylea002 (2295 posts) -

POWER.

UP.

FOREVER.

#37 Posted by Tennmuerti (8005 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

How many levels is that?

ALL the levels.

#38 Posted by Sanity (1891 posts) -

Come at me bro might be the best name for a skill ever.

#39 Posted by Demoskinos (14564 posts) -

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

#40 Posted by YI_Orange (1129 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

Yep, and we're gonna have fun doing it.

#41 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

I have both this and Dishonored in pre-release in my Steam library, just taunting me. It's making for an excruciating wait.

#42 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

This might come as a shock to you, but not everybody believes what you believe.

#43 Posted by Elyk247 (366 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

As many times as possible!

#44 Posted by Unlogik (163 posts) -

@YI_Orange said:

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

Yep, and we're gonna have fun doing it.

#45 Posted by Demoskinos (14564 posts) -
@Unlogik

@YI_Orange said:

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

Yep, and we're gonna have fun doing it.

Gross!
#46 Posted by Unlogik (163 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@Unlogik

@YI_Orange said:

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

Yep, and we're gonna have fun doing it.

Gross!

You just jelly :P

#47 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3559 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@Unlogik

@YI_Orange said:

@Demoskinos said:

Borderlands got stale quick. Are people really going to play the same content over and over?

Yep, and we're gonna have fun doing it.

Gross!

http://youtu.be/Vs_9QZ0iIkw?t=10s

Oh yeah!

#48 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

If you guys can't wrap your head around infinity, go watch the most recent TNT where Will Smith explains it in perfect detail.

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