Cooldown rate? Why is this not mathematically working?

#1 Posted by xyzygy (10032 posts) -

So I'm building my Commando around getting two turrets with rockets and a shield out there, with the least amount of cooldown as possible. I just found the PERFECT class mod for me (+32% Colldown rate, +4 Resourceful). Here is the total amount of cooldown reduction I'm getting:

32% from Mod

45% from Resourceful (9/5, includes 4 points from Mod)

21.6% from Relic

So that all adds up to 98.6%. Now the cooldown for turrets by default is 42 seconds. So 96.8% of 42 is 41 seconds - my cooldown should only be 1 second. But I just timed my cooldown and it takes exactly 20 seconds. WTF? How does this make any sense? My cooldown is only being reduced by about 60%. I've tried unequipping them and re-equipping, but it's the same. Does anyone know how the cooldown system works, am I overlooking something?

#2 Posted by Patman99 (1611 posts) -

Maybe there is a cap to how much your cooldown may be modified? So you cannot reduce your cooldown to less than 60%.

#3 Edited by Tennmuerti (8141 posts) -

You are using the wrong formula.

Cooldown/reload and all time based rates like that in Borderlands 2 are calculated differently. They increase the cooldown rate not decrease the cooldown time itself.

A 100% increase in reload speed or ability cooldown basically makes the reload 2 times faster, and cooldown 2 times faster. So yes your 98% is basically halving the turret cooldown. At 200% it would be 3 times faster.

If it worked the other way you could potentially reduce all cooldowns to 0 and beyond 0 and break the game. It would also create an imbalanced curve. They way the formula works is it gives you equal returns per % instead of increased returns.

#4 Posted by Borodin (417 posts) -

Maybe it's just misleadingly labelled? It is cooldown *rate* and not cooldown, so your near 100% means your cooldown ticks down twice as fast as it otherwise would, hence 20 seconds from 40?

#5 Edited by xyzygy (10032 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

You are using the wrong formula.

Cooldown/reload and all time based rates like that in Borderlands 2 are calculated differently. They decrease the cooldown rate not decrease the cooldown time itself.

A 100% increase in reload speed or ability cooldown basically makes the reload 2 times faster, and cooldown 2 times faster. So yes your 98% is basically halving the turret cooldown. At 200% it would be 3 times faster.

If it worked the other way you could potentially reduce all cooldowns to 0 and beyond 0 and break the game. It would also create an imbalanced curve. They way the formula works is it gives you equal returns per % instead of increased returns.

Ah. I see. I really wish they would have explained this in the game instead of me foolishly trying to get amazing cooldown. I guess it would kind of break the game thuogh because those turrets are fucked in power. Guess I will lean more towards the Sentry skill, keeping them out for longer periods.

Though I do remember in BL1 the formula I used worked - the cooldown for Bloodwing by the time I was level 69 with an awesome mod and skill distribution was about 1 second.

#6 Posted by Ramone (2975 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

@Tennmuerti said:

You are using the wrong formula.

Cooldown/reload and all time based rates like that in Borderlands 2 are calculated differently. They decrease the cooldown rate not decrease the cooldown time itself.

A 100% increase in reload speed or ability cooldown basically makes the reload 2 times faster, and cooldown 2 times faster. So yes your 98% is basically halving the turret cooldown. At 200% it would be 3 times faster.

If it worked the other way you could potentially reduce all cooldowns to 0 and beyond 0 and break the game. It would also create an imbalanced curve. They way the formula works is it gives you equal returns per % instead of increased returns.

Ah. I see. I really wish they would have explained this in the game instead of me foolishly trying to get amazing cooldown. I guess it would kind of break the game thuogh because those turrets are fucked in power. Guess I will lean more towards the Sentry skill, keeping them out for longer periods.

Though I do remember in BL1 the formula I used worked - the cooldown for Bloodwing by the time I was level 69 with an awesome mod and skill distribution was about 1 second.

They do explain it, it clearly says reduction in cooldown rate.

#7 Posted by Tennmuerti (8141 posts) -

@Ramone: Eh, it's honestly an easy thing to gloss over and interpret incorrectly, no biggie.

Also technically it's an increase in cooldown rate (as the skills and mods say). I just corrected my own post for this.

#8 Posted by Talis12 (488 posts) -

its the same thing with shields and badass points.. you can put points into shield recharge rate and into shield recharge delay.. you were thinking of the delay when it was affecting the rate

#9 Posted by Ramone (2975 posts) -

@Talis12 said:

its the same thing with shields and badass points.. you can put points into shield recharge rate and into shield recharge delay.. you were thinking of the delay when it was affecting the rate

No that's some thing different again. Delay is the time it takes for your shields to start recharging.

#10 Edited by xyzygy (10032 posts) -

@Ramone said:

@Talis12 said:

its the same thing with shields and badass points.. you can put points into shield recharge rate and into shield recharge delay.. you were thinking of the delay when it was affecting the rate

No that's some thing different again. Delay is the time it takes for your shields to start recharging.

See that's what I mean. Some things go by seconds, like the actual cooldown and the recharge delay, while other things have rates attached to them and the actual "rates" aren't clearly defined in-game. Like it says that the cooldown is 42 seconds but doesn't really tell you anywhere in the skill tree what the rate is for cooldown is. I was still trying to rack my brain around this last night while getting to bed. I suppose that's what the internet is for, but still it would be nice to know the formula for the rates so I know what I'm actually affecting when I have a +86% rate, for instance,

I would think that when they say "rate", that rate is actual time. You know, like seconds, milliseconds, etc. Isn't counting down in seconds a kind of a rate? It is very easy to get mixed up.

#11 Edited by Ramone (2975 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

@Ramone said:

@Talis12 said:

its the same thing with shields and badass points.. you can put points into shield recharge rate and into shield recharge delay.. you were thinking of the delay when it was affecting the rate

No that's some thing different again. Delay is the time it takes for your shields to start recharging.

See that's what I mean. Some things go by seconds, like the actual cooldown and the recharge delay, while other things have rates attached to them and the actual "rates" aren't clearly defined in-game. Like it says that the cooldown is 42 seconds but doesn't really tell you anywhere in the skill tree what the rate is for cooldown is. I was still trying to rack my brain around this last night while getting to bed. I suppose that's what the internet is for, but still it would be nice to know the formula for the rates so I know what I'm actually affecting when I have a +86% rate, for instance,

I would think that when they say "rate", that rate is actual time. You know, like seconds, milliseconds, etc. Isn't counting down in seconds a kind of a rate?

The way I would define it is that rate = speed. So say the cooldown is 10 seconds, therefore the rate/speed of the cooldown is 10% a second. If I increase the rate by 100% it is now 20% a second therefore total cooldown time is 5 seconds. I'll admit it's weird but I think the reason they do it like that is to prevent near-instant cooldowns which could break the balance of the game.

In your example the cooldown rate would be 100/42 = 2.38% per second.

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