One of the things I absolutely loved about borderlands was that iron sights was completely optional. If you wanted to you could play like an old-style PC shooter without any penalty. While I haven't played a lot of BL2 yet it seems to me that if I don't aim I'm not hitting at all. I've literally emptied clips with my crosshair on the target at medium range and not a single bullet connected. I also noticed that when you pull up the iron sights the crosshairs are tightening while fading indicating an accuracy improvement. Am I just imagining things here, or did they really change this ?

You meant trigger?

You're imagining things. While Borderlands 1 isn't as dependent on iron sights as, say, Call of Duty, you definitely still need them at times unless you're always in your enemy's faces.

It does seem like the accuracy is bad when you're firing from the hip with an assault rifle, yes. Shotguns though, still beastly with or without ADS.

Keep in mind you are at the start of the game with very low quality weapons. It's possible that you just remember what it was like to have end game firearms from BL1.

Playing a sniper, I would be scoping most of the time, however I did reach a point in BL1 where I could reliably no scope enemies with my rifle at medium range. Still needed ADS for long range or moving targets, however.

Weapon lvls are gone is my understanding in Borderlands 2. If I remember correctly, when you got a class of weapons lvl'd late game and aquired better, higher lvl weapons too, no scopes and firing without ADS improved substantially, especially with the more ranged weapon types. Skill trees may be more of a factor than they were before as well, dunno, as Amazon has my game on delayed shipping :(.

Shotguns, hunters with revolvers, soldiers with non-AR machine guns, and sirens with smgs are about the only effective non-ADS combos I can think of in Borderlands.

I'm sure with the right class, skill tree and weapon selections you can do BL2 without ADS. Probably a gunzerker is your best bet, ADS isn't even an option while 'zerking.

@Ares42: If it took more than one shot, you weren't using a Jakobs!

Dudewhat? Borderlands borderline (get it?) required you to use iron sights to hit anything. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that you didn't have to. Did you only use shotguns and rockets or something?

Why the fuck wouldn't you use the iron sights when fighting dudes? That's just crazy.

Jakobs is cockney rhyming slang for testicles (Jacobs Cream Crackers - knackers). I wonder if there is a brit on the design team.

@ajamafalous: Well, I played through the first one with all 4 classes without barely using it. I did everything from rocket launchers to SMGs to burst rifles or pistols, even headshotting with revolvers. I never ever felt like using ADS gave me an accuracy boost when I tried it. If anything I do better without it as I can actually see what I'm targetting, and the iron sights even had sway to them which made it really annoying.

@Maajin: Ye, meant trigger =/ didn't realize the typo before now, any way to change it ?

@pweidman said:

Weapon lvls are gone is my understanding in Borderlands 2. If I remember correctly, when you got a class of weapons lvl'd late game and aquired better, higher lvl weapons too, no scopes and firing without ADS improved substantially, especially with the more ranged weapon types. Skill trees may be more of a factor than they were before as well, dunno, as Amazon has my game on delayed shipping :(.

Level requirements on weapons you mean? Those are still in.

@Barrock said:

@pweidman said:

Weapon lvls are gone is my understanding in Borderlands 2. If I remember correctly, when you got a class of weapons lvl'd late game and aquired better, higher lvl weapons too, no scopes and firing without ADS improved substantially, especially with the more ranged weapon types. Skill trees may be more of a factor than they were before as well, dunno, as Amazon has my game on delayed shipping :(.

Level requirements on weapons you mean? Those are still in.

No I mean the weapon class lvls..you used to be able to get each class to 50 I believe. But I read that feature is gone in B2.

Went and tested some spread patterns and I was obviously wrong about Borderlands 1. Both games definitely has some insane accuracy bonus from aiming. Sorta weird that I played so much of the first one not using it with no problems though. It's hard to say but I think there might be a difference in recoil "cooldown". Seems like Borderlands 2 will retain your recoil longer, making burst firing from the hip less effective.

Thanks EA!

@Ares42 said:

Went and tested some spread patterns and I was obviously wrong about Borderlands 1. Both games definitely has some insane accuracy bonus from aiming. Sorta weird that I played so much of the first one not using it with no problems though. It's hard to say but I think there might be a difference in recoil "cooldown". Seems like Borderlands 2 will retain your recoil longer, making burst firing from the hip less effective.

Yeah, that's what I figured, because I remember aiming down the sights a lot in Borderlands 1. It's kinda been Call of Duty + Diablo lootfest from the start; Borderlands 2 really didn't change much of the formula.

You could go hipfire only in Borderlands 1 for certain setups, with a quality weapon and a high enough weapon skill. But that was mostly for endgame play through 2.5 kind of stuff.

@Vinny_Says said:

Thanks EA!

I love you.

I guess I played the first played wrong, because I used iron sights all the time. Maybe a random spray and pray from time to time, but aiming down was essential for my SMG Siren.

@pweidman said:

@Barrock said:

@pweidman said:

Weapon lvls are gone is my understanding in Borderlands 2. If I remember correctly, when you got a class of weapons lvl'd late game and aquired better, higher lvl weapons too, no scopes and firing without ADS improved substantially, especially with the more ranged weapon types. Skill trees may be more of a factor than they were before as well, dunno, as Amazon has my game on delayed shipping :(.

Level requirements on weapons you mean? Those are still in.

No I mean the weapon class lvls..you used to be able to get each class to 50 I believe. But I read that feature is gone in B2.

He's talking about weapon proficiency levels. They are no longer in the game.