I'm not a graphics snob but the 360 version pop in is atrocious

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#1 Edited by Humanity (8714 posts) -

Firstly to get it out of the way: I am enjoying this game, a lot more than I did Borderlands 1 which I found somewhat boring. I am playing Zer0, which must be a popular class cause everyone on my friends list is doing the same. The art direction certainly looks really great. I'm only level 13 but so far the environments have been pretty neat and varied.

With that out of the way, holy shit is this pop-in bad. YES I have it installed, and my 360 is a 250gb Slim model bought last year. Now I never played RAGE but thought the complaints about texture pop in sounded really overblown. If they were anything like Borderlands 2 then I fully sympathize. In games like Mass Effect or Gears of War you get some initial pop-in at the start of a new area etc but Borderlands 2 it is constant. I hardly know what an ammo box looks like because each time I open a crate it's just a liquefied blurry mess and then I span X to pick everything up and am on my merry way.

Is this something that can be patched? I know the engine can't possible be that bad as I played other Unreal type games and it didn't seem to struggle nearly as much. I also kind of wish Jeff mentioned this pop in at some point since it's just crazy bad, although different people can tolerate different levels of graphical quality. It won't cause me to quit playing but it is kinda detracting from the value of the game in the long run. I wish Gearbox took the time to maybe iron this out, especially since so much time had passed since Borderlands 1.

#2 Edited by Vanek (381 posts) -

I don't see what they could do in a patch and since you have it installed it wont get any better. It's just something you'll have to live with sadly. I have the same issue but like you said it doesn't ruin the game, but you do notice it, and on the bright side according to Eurogamer the Xbox 360 version does perform better texture/framerate wise than the PS3 version so it could be worse.

#3 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2283 posts) -
@Humanity said:

Firstly to get it out of the way: I am enjoying this game, a lot more than I did Borderlands 2 which I found somewhat boring.

So, how's Borderlands 3? 
 
In all seriousness, have you tried installing it? That helps with some games.
#4 Edited by tphickma (62 posts) -

@Turtlebird95: they did install it, im having the same issue its just one of those things i guess, mine doesn't sound quite as bad as yours, but during cut-scenes it can definitely ruin the mood of the game.

#5 Posted by Klei (1768 posts) -

Well, the 360 is pushed vastly past its limits. It's dying and coughing. Just booting up the fucking dashboard takes forever. Even browsing the guide is one hell of a chore for the console. What did you expect with this game?

#6 Posted by The_Nubster (2037 posts) -

It's the Unreal engine. It happened in Borderlands 1 just as much as it does here, and it was equally atrocious in all of the Mass Effect games. It could be curbed if they lengthened the load times, I'll bet, but it doesn't really matter. The only other solution is to get a good PC and buy it there.

#7 Posted by CosmicBatman (317 posts) -

@Humanity: So does it look worse than the first one?

#8 Posted by mlarrabee (2868 posts) -

Well, it is running on a seven year-old computer with 512 MB of RAM and a 500 MHz ATI Xenos.

There's only so much texture data you can cache into that little memory. Don't worry, it won't be too much longer.

#9 Posted by SirOptimusPrime (1914 posts) -

Eh, you should expect that because

@mlarrabee said:

it is running on a seven year-old computer with 512 MB of RAM and a 500 MHz ATI Xenos.

#10 Posted by ABK_92 (176 posts) -

PC master race reporting in. I have like 1 second of texture loading after I first load into a new area and then its all good.

#11 Posted by Oni (2094 posts) -

The weird thing is, I'm even getting it on the pc version, but only in very specific instances, mainly when opening an ammo box, all the ammo pickups are blurry for a second or so. Hasn't really jumped out to me in any other instance, so I think it's also a factor of how they're using the engine. I'm guessing ammo is spawned somewhat at random any time you open a box, hence it isn't actually a physical object until the box opens, so it renders it from scratch.

#12 Edited by Subject2Change (2966 posts) -

PC version for me isn't all that different in terms of pop in, it's not awful it comes up quickly. My settings could possibly be too high for my system however it runs smooth besides that. I'll deal with it.

#13 Posted by AlexW00d (6168 posts) -

@Subject2Change said:

PC version for me isn't all that different in terms of pop in, it's not awful it comes up quickly. My settings could possibly be too high for my system however it runs smooth besides that. I'll deal with it.

You can make a simple .ini edit and it eliminates pop in all together. I have none and it's wonderful, but before I made the edit I even had it on the god damned menu.

But yeah, fuck Unreal Engine.

#14 Posted by Jimbo (9769 posts) -

It's pretty bad on PC too. Also the frame rate seems kinda shitty, for a game which doesn't look all that great or seem like it should be particularly taxing. Usually a solid 60 (which seems capped, even if I select uncapped) just running about, but can drop as low as 15fps once the action hots up a bit.

#15 Posted by Humanity (8714 posts) -

@CosmicBatman: I had actually replied but maybe I left the page before posting cause I don't see it weird. I don't know how Borderlands 1 was as I played that on the PC and I don't recall almost any pop-in.

@mlarrabee: I don't see why this is such a go to point when some modern games like Arkham City, Gears of War 3, or heck even Bulletstorm look and perform GREAT on the 360. People keep mentioned how old the consoles are but honestly, there are developers out there who made some games look amazing.

@Klei: I don't have any issues with the dashboard and as I mentioned above, there are plenty of games that look great on the 360.

If anything this is depressing that developers still don't know how to properly code for a console that has been out for 7 years and we still get embarrassing stuff like this. Although thats not even fair as the current version of Unreal Engine that they are using is 7 years old. Even more so depressing is the fact that Gearbox has ample time to tweak this from the time Borderlands 1 came out but it seems like they just didn't bother. I could have used a bazillion less guns and smoother better looking gameplay to be quite honest.

#16 Posted by AlexW00d (6168 posts) -

@Jimbo said:

It's pretty bad on PC too. Also the frame rate seems kinda shitty, for a game which doesn't look all that great or seem like it should be particularly taxing. Usually a solid 60 (which seems capped, even if I select uncapped) just running about, but can drop as low as 15fps once the action hots up a bit.

You should probably turn physx down then.

#17 Posted by ShaggE (6290 posts) -

@Oni said:

The weird thing is, I'm even getting it on the pc version, but only in very specific instances, mainly when opening an ammo box, all the ammo pickups are blurry for a second or so. Hasn't really jumped out to me in any other instance, so I think it's also a factor of how they're using the engine. I'm guessing ammo is spawned somewhat at random any time you open a box, hence it isn't actually a physical object until the box opens, so it renders it from scratch.

What's weird is, I don't remember the first game doing that. I might be misremembering, but didn't the ammo spawn in fully textured? Of course, BL2's loading times are a tiny fraction of what they were in BL1, so they definitely did something different with the caching.

Unrelated note: I accidentally turned PhysX on once, and it's killing me that the medium setting is JUST taxing enough to bump the framerate down below my comfort level. I miss those gorgeous particle effects. :(

#18 Edited by Subject2Change (2966 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

@Subject2Change said:

PC version for me isn't all that different in terms of pop in, it's not awful it comes up quickly. My settings could possibly be too high for my system however it runs smooth besides that. I'll deal with it.

You can make a simple .ini edit and it eliminates pop in all together. I have none and it's wonderful, but before I made the edit I even had it on the god damned menu.

But yeah, fuck Unreal Engine.

Details on this .ini edit would be appreciated. Thx

#19 Edited by AlexW00d (6168 posts) -

@Subject2Change: I went looking for it just after I posted that and it proved to be as hard to find as it was the first time. Let me check again.

Found it.

#20 Posted by Jimbo (9769 posts) -
@AlexW00d said:

@Jimbo said:

It's pretty bad on PC too. Also the frame rate seems kinda shitty, for a game which doesn't look all that great or seem like it should be particularly taxing. Usually a solid 60 (which seems capped, even if I select uncapped) just running about, but can drop as low as 15fps once the action hots up a bit.

You should probably turn physx down then.

Hmmm, it's on low I think, but I might not have restarted the game since then. I'll see if it's any better next time I play.
#21 Edited by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -

Could explain the "I'm not a graphics snob" bit to me? Are you not supposed to ask for proper graphics as a paying consumer for a graphically-based medium of entertainment?It's like being someone who spends their hard earned money on music CDs yet being content with bad lyrics saying "I'm not a word snob."

P.S. I'm not being a jerk I'm really interested in your perspective.

#22 Posted by Subject2Change (2966 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

@Subject2Change: I went looking for it just after I posted that and it proved to be as hard to find as it was the first time. Let me check again.

Found it.

Awesome, thanks. Tried googling it and couldn't find it.

#23 Posted by Village_Guy (2480 posts) -

I'm seeing a little, though I only find it noticeable when opening ammo boxes, which seems weird that it is extremely bad in that specific case and not really that bad elsewhere.

It is Unreal Engine after all, and when comparing it to RAGE it isn't half as bad, that game was horrible about texture pop-in and even after they fully loaded a ton of them were seriously low-res on the 360.

#24 Posted by Morbid_Coffee (954 posts) -

Everytime something like this happens in the game, my only reaction is "yep, it's Borderlands."

Wouldn't be the same game if something wasn't a janky mess, whether it be texture pop in, bad AI, or things falling through the floor.

#25 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2203 posts) -

I didn't really notice that much pop-in, probably because I was playing split-screen most of the time, but the framerate had some terrible moments in split-screen. If one player is in the menus or selling stuff it seemed the game would freeze for half a second everytime they navigated the menus.

#26 Edited by Abendlaender (2734 posts) -

You know, I play it on PC and I still have horrible pop ins....

It's really unfortunate

#27 Edited by Zelyre (1104 posts) -

@Abendlaender said:

You know, I play it on PC and I still have horrible pop ins....

It's really unfortunate

Use Alexw00d's WillowEngine.cfg settings on the first page. The texture pop was annoying on my PC, and horrible every time I opened a chest. Just changed

[Engine.Engine]

MipFadeInSpeed0=0

MipFadeOutSpeed0=0

MipFadeInSpeed1=0

MipFadeOutSpeed1=0

And everything is right as rain.

#28 Posted by Gruff182 (851 posts) -

This game looks fantastic on the PC with all the PhysX stuff. The amount of debris, dirt and ember thats left behind after our co-op firefights is great(not to mention when I phase-lock and it sucks up a dude plus loads of cloth and crap from the environment).

Thats running on a modern computer though, I get about a second of pop-in on the first load (because Unreal), then its smooth.

I'm not sure what you expect from old ass hardware but I think they do a pretty good job with that 512mb of ram and old gpu/cpu.

#29 Posted by YoungFrey (1321 posts) -

On my PC I still see a fair bit of it, but mostly from the sniper rifle zoom. If Unreal 4 has it then I will lose so much respect for Epic.

#30 Posted by SmilingPig (1337 posts) -

Stupid aging Xbox, the pc version is sub-par because of you.

#31 Posted by Humanity (8714 posts) -

@AhmadMetallic: Well I just wanted to distance myself from some people who are completely elitist about graphics in games. I do like my 360 titles to look pretty but good gameplay usually comes first, whereas I've seen people tear some games apart because the AA wasn't good enough and the "jaggies were raping their eyes." Also since we live in the age of the internet it is almost customary now, for me anyway, to frontload any thread with disclaimers so I don't have to explain myself and everything is as crystal clear as possible. Maybe it's a bit extra effort but I find it makes for better threads in the end. For example any thread about 360 game performance requires you to put in "yes I installed it to the harddrive" before you say anything else in order to not get 15 replies of suggesting you install it to the harddrive.

Although I completely agree that we should expect quality on every level. If a game like Dead Space 2 which has amazing graphics for the 360 with great texture work, zero pop in, and a smooth framerate then why should I excuse Gearbox for giving me less? A more appropriate comparison would be Halo Reach I suppose because it has equally expansive levels while Dead Space is a lot more close quarters. Reach also had literally zero pop-in and a great framerate while maintaining a pretty high graphical level. I don't think just shrugging and saying it's the Unreal Engine is a proper response especially this late in the console cycle. Other developers have managed to optimize the engine for their games with great success. Still it seems as if we live in an age where the consumer isn't supposed to expect more and thats a little sad.

#32 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -

@Humanity said:

@AhmadMetallic: Well I just wanted to distance myself from some people who are completely elitist about graphics in games. I do like my 360 titles to look pretty but good gameplay usually comes first, whereas I've seen people tear some games apart because the AA wasn't good enough and the "jaggies were raping their eyes." Also since we live in the age of the internet it is almost customary now, for me anyway, to frontload any thread with disclaimers so I don't have to explain myself and everything is as crystal clear as possible. Maybe it's a bit extra effort but I find it makes for better threads in the end. For example any thread about 360 game performance requires you to put in "yes I installed it to the harddrive" before you say anything else in order to not get 15 replies of suggesting you install it to the harddrive.

I understand this, but as long as we perpetuate the whole "graphics elitists" notion and have to dodge it in thread titles and topic intros, IMO we're not helping to end it. When we perpetuate it we allow stupid fucks to call anyone a graphics elitist, just like the whole PC Elitist thing wouldn't die out for the past few years until people started using less and thus realized that it was blown out of proportion.

Don't get me wrong dude you're cool to say what you want I'm just saying we should help exterminate that everlasting worry about being perceived as elitists by presenting good arguments instead of disclaimers. Your argument in this thread is pretty good, you actually have an issue here.

Although I completely agree that we should expect quality on every level. If a game like Dead Space 2 which has amazing graphics for the 360 with great texture work, zero pop in, and a smooth framerate then why should I excuse Gearbox for giving me less? A more appropriate comparison would be Halo Reach I suppose because it has equally expansive levels while Dead Space is a lot more close quarters. Reach also had literally zero pop-in and a great framerate while maintaining a pretty high graphical level. I don't think just shrugging and saying it's the Unreal Engine is a proper response especially this late in the console cycle. Other developers have managed to optimize the engine for their games with great success. Still it seems as if we live in an age where the consumer isn't supposed to expect more and thats a little sad.

I wish just half of the 'gamer population' would think like you do. The day we stopped demanding high standards was the day developers and publishers started getting away with half-assed games, selling them for 60 dollars.

In this day and age it's OK for a game to be riddled with issues right out of the box, because we'll "wait for a patch." I really hate that shit. We should speak up instead of calling each other complainers.

#33 Posted by Delta_Ass (3246 posts) -

Unreal 3 says hello.

#34 Posted by laserbolts (5309 posts) -

Pop in is not an issue for me. Weird.

#35 Posted by Tennmuerti (7956 posts) -

@Zelyre said:

@Abendlaender said:

You know, I play it on PC and I still have horrible pop ins....

It's really unfortunate

Use Alexw00d's WillowEngine.cfg settings on the first page. The texture pop was annoying on my PC, and horrible every time I opened a chest. Just changed

[Engine.Engine]

MipFadeInSpeed0=0

MipFadeOutSpeed0=0

MipFadeInSpeed1=0

MipFadeOutSpeed1=0

And everything is right as rain.

Thanks for this, works like a charm no more silly popup.

#36 Posted by HistoryInRust (6268 posts) -

atrocious

We need to find a different word now.

PS3 player here. Pop-in and framerate haven't been an issue. It's aggravating that I have to wait for the saving to be through before I can travel between load screens, but that's about it.

#38 Posted by Kyreo (4600 posts) -

The PS3 version is no picnic either. This is what we get with Unreal engine games. At least... I think it's an unreal engine game.

#39 Posted by MiniPato (2714 posts) -

It's kind of standard to expect first person open world games to have graphical issues on consoles it seems (granted Borderlands is only semi-open world). I can't think of any first person open world game that doesn't.

#40 Edited by RoyaleWifCheese (540 posts) -

I wouldn't say it's the Xbox console's fault. I've seen it running on all three platforms, and texture pop in is pretty atrocious all around.

#41 Posted by ZoDD (73 posts) -

@Humanity: If you are commenting on texture pop-in, then by definition, you are a graphics snob.

#42 Posted by Scrawnto (2433 posts) -

@Zelyre: I'll have to try that. The pop-in on the ammo pickups was driving me nuts.

#43 Edited by John1912 (1811 posts) -

Yea Im running the game on PC and still get the pop ins. Its nothing worth crying over. My system can more then handle the game.

#44 Posted by Nux (2294 posts) -

Yeah, its pretty bad.

#45 Posted by wewantsthering (1547 posts) -

Yeah it's pretty bad. Haha. I played up util about level 21 on XB360 then switched back to my PC, which runs it at max... the difference was astronomical. The only problem is none of my friends are playing on PC.

#46 Posted by Fattony12000 (6954 posts) -

My girlfriend is playing co-op with me on my old PC hardware, and it runs just great at 720p on a 9600GT and an old dual core Wolfdale.

#47 Posted by stryker1121 (1323 posts) -

@Humanity: I can't even tell what each ammo type is anymore regardless of blur. I just sweep over it and it hoovers up anything i need. The ammo is the only pop-in I've seen in the game, though.

#48 Posted by OldManLight (819 posts) -

it's 2012 and we're still talking about texture pop-in in Unreal Engine 3 games? Practically every game built on this engine has suffered from it in some way or another.

#49 Posted by YoungFrey (1321 posts) -

@OldManLight said:

it's 2012 and we're still talking about texture pop-in in Unreal Engine 3 games? Practically every game built on this engine has suffered from it in some way or another.

There is a big difference between tell-tale pop-up and the kind of horror show the OP is describing. It's pretty fair to call it out here. I'm not even blaming the engine for this. Because many games built on it don't have it like that.

#50 Posted by OldManLight (819 posts) -

i'm willing to conceit that the pc version looks MUCH better than the console but i still feel that it's pretty to look at albeit lower resolution and with some jaggies. the game is fun and my friends are all playing it on 360, that's enough for me. I'll buy the steam version once it's on sale in 6 months and enjoy the prettiness then.

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